Results 1 to 47 of 47
  1. #1
    Pivoteer
    Reputation: tiSS'er's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    3,429

    TNT coil to DW Air?

    I may be changing my TNT Spot with a Avy Chubie to a DW Spot with a RP23. The TNT just kills it with the Avy. Plush, very well dampened, and great traction. I have demo'd a DW a while back, and honestly don't remember what it felt like. I ride in Phoenix, so we have super chunky trails. Has anyone made a similar transition? Do you regret losing the coil on the DW? Keeping the Avy is not an option, even if I did, I would have to have it retuned. Seems like the low compression/rebound tune would override the normal crappy RP23 dampening.
    Employed by Pivot Cycles - www.pivotcycles.com

  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation: juan_speeder's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    1,258
    Weren't you a longtime "DW Link sucks" kinda guy?
    God hates figs. Luke 13:6-9

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    725
    What type of riding do you do? A 5 spot with a avalanche sounds like a great bike for phoenix, with or without DW link. What are you hoping to gain?

  4. #4
    Pivoteer
    Reputation: tiSS'er's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    3,429
    My TNT has passed on to the afterlife. I will be speaking with Greg today about my options. I have researched endlessly and I cannot find another company I would rather deal with, regardless of the suspension design.
    Employed by Pivot Cycles - www.pivotcycles.com

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation: AndyN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    3,111
    I went from a TNT Spot to a DW Spot, both air. The best advice I can give is do the RP23 shim mod, and try a few different size shims to see what best suits your riding style. For PHX riding start off with a DGC size shim, and go bigger from there. Also, run your rebound on the slow side, first few rides at least.

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation: CrashTheDOG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    2,443
    I've been extremely pleased with my RP23 equiped DW 5 Spot. So much so I haven't even mounted the MX tuned DHX I received from Push several months ago. The only limitation I've found is the well documented lack of bottom out resistance. I've got the material I need to perform DGC's mod but just haven't found the time to get around to it. I'll be mounting up the DHX today in preparation for a Moab trip next month. I'll let you know what I think when I get in a few rides.

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation: AndyN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    3,111
    CTD - The shim mod takes all of 10 minutes, and really helps reduce bottoming.

  8. #8
    Moosehead
    Reputation: moosehead's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    1,892
    Tiss', also recall you not liking your first shakedown ride on the DW Spot, but perhaps that was setup and you going bigger on SoMo gnar, not sure. In addition to the shim mod, many are running coil on the DW here: Decender, Inkpad, others.

    I'd be interested in your Avy Chubie if you end up converting to something different.

  9. #9
    Pivoteer
    Reputation: tiSS'er's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    3,429
    Thanks for the help. I have read DGCs mod and would certainly have to do it. We don't have any large drops here, nothing over 3 feet anyway. Our terrain is simply relenting and is never smooth. I love the TNT with the AVY, perfect for SOMO, and 30 mile rides in Sedona. Great do all bike.

    I have spent several days researching other brands, models, etc, and I have to come back to Turner. They have always taken care of me, and the reality is not too many other companies go the distances Turner does. The new Spot is a bit intriguing to me as it is built a bit more burly, which I think is what i need. SOMO will break any bike. Shoot, I broke my RFX 4 different times. It's not that I am crazy rider or anything, but I do ride 4-5times a week.

    When I demo'd the DW, it is only fair to say it was short, and it was at a location I have never ridden. I was not able to demo it on my home soil.
    Employed by Pivot Cycles - www.pivotcycles.com

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    1,598

    nothing but Turner

    Quote Originally Posted by tiSS'er
    I have researched endlessly and I cannot find another company I would rather deal with, regardless of the suspension design.

    in your endless researching, what didn't you like about Ventana & Knolly?
    breezy shade

  11. #11
    Pivoteer
    Reputation: tiSS'er's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    3,429
    I have also seen contradictions on the small bump compliance of the DW. What are your thoughts? Harsh or not?
    Employed by Pivot Cycles - www.pivotcycles.com

  12. #12
    Pivoteer
    Reputation: tiSS'er's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    3,429
    Quote Originally Posted by nhodge
    in your endless researching, what didn't you like about Ventana & Knolly?

    I love the classic looks of Ventanas, but I have ridden several of them. I think they ride great but I don't like PP. If I were to get a Ciclon for example, I would have to get a new Avy. I cannot afford to go that route.

    The Knolly has been on my radar, but without any real direct knowledge of the bike, or any local dealers, I am unsure. It also seems as though it may be a bit tedious to do the longer XC rides that we throw out there.

    LNC has been instrumental in helping me. He has had both the DW and Ciclon. He provided me a very objective review of both bikes and now prefers the DW for a laundry list of reasons. Since he rides similar terrain to what we have, I put serious stock in that.

    Finally, I will get a minimum trade in on the DW should I go that direction.
    Last edited by tiSS'er; 04-05-2010 at 08:58 AM.
    Employed by Pivot Cycles - www.pivotcycles.com

  13. #13
    Outcast
    Reputation: Renegade's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    8,560
    Untill someone buys one, and puts it on the dw-spot, we will never know.
    I did it for the horst link spot, it's up to someone else. I don't have dw.
    Ahem:

    ****

  14. #14
    Pivoteer
    Reputation: tiSS'er's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    3,429
    Since you asked, here are the models I looked at:

    Titus El Guapo - Liked the Horst link, don't like the company. Had issues in the past when I had to deal with them

    Chumba XCL - liked the horst link, don't know much about the company, not all that excited about their line up

    Banshee Rune/Spitfile - emailed back and forth with Keith. He answered all of my questions, great guy. He didn't recommend the Spitfire for our terrain with the low BB. Warranty is crap (bolts, pivots, ect not covered), and issues with premature pivot wear. No local dealers, warranty has to be submitted thorugh a distributor.

    Ventana Ciclon - answered in a previous post

    Knolly Endo - answered in a previous post

    Yeti 575 - Had the previous generation, rode the new generation, too flexy, limited shock options, special tools to remove the shock.
    Employed by Pivot Cycles - www.pivotcycles.com

  15. #15
    mtbr member
    Reputation: AndyN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    3,111
    Quote Originally Posted by tiSS'er
    I have also seen contradictions on the small bump compliance of the DW. What are your thoughts? Harsh or not?

    Through air can shimming, or swapping the HV canister for the standard volume RP23 canister, I've found you can tune to either end of the spectrum.

    Un-shimmed HV can = super plush small and medium bump, but not enough mid-range support or bottomout resistance.

    Standard volume can = significant loss of small bump compliance, well supported mid-range, massive resistance to bottom-out... too much IME. Full travel has yet to be used even while running extra sag.

    Shimmed HV can = retains small bump compliance, adds bottom-out resistance. I'm still working with shim size to add mid-range support and more bottom-out control. Just got my HV can back from Fox and have put the largest shim possible in there, but haven't got any saddle time with that shim yet.
    Last edited by AndyN; 04-05-2010 at 12:59 PM.

  16. #16
    locked - time out
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    759
    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade
    Untill someone buys one, and puts it on the dw-spot, we will never know.
    I did it for the horst link spot, it's up to someone else. I don't have dw.
    Ahem:

    What does that shock do right that the others (coil or air) don't do? Downtube interference?

    User serviceability? Hardware? Parts?

  17. #17
    Outcast
    Reputation: Renegade's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    8,560
    Quote Originally Posted by glitz
    What does that shock do right that the others (coil or air) don't do? Downtube interference?

    User serviceability? Hardware? Parts?
    My experience compared to the Pushed RP3 and R.S. monarch that I have:
    The above two mentioned shocks feel very linear to me untill you get to the last 1/4 inch of shock stroke. They also feel dead, overdamped; not lively.
    The H3 feels progressive, and it had a user tuneable bottom out system. The stroke feels longer than the other shocks, and lively.
    No downtube interference issue on my spot or former rfx.
    It's a good air shock, but it's not comparable to a high end coil shock.
    User serviceabilityparts, etc; not. X-fusion is holding onto that.
    ****

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    1,598

    shim size?

    Quote Originally Posted by AndyN
    Just got my HV can back from Fox and have put the largest shim possible in there, but haven't got any saddle time with that shim yet.

    what is the largest shim possible?
    breezy shade

  19. #19
    mtbr member
    Reputation: inkpad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    1,545
    Quote Originally Posted by tiSS'er
    I have also seen contradictions on the small bump compliance of the DW. What are your thoughts? Harsh or not?
    I can tell you, the DW Spot with the MX shock has not only great small bump compliance, tracking very well on semi rough, off camber stuff, but also a near bottomless feel when ripping through the chunk, such as the stuff you have in AZ (I'm in Fort Collins, CO & ride similar terrain). That said, I have never ridden a DW spot with an air shock, but see no reason to try, as I am so stoked on my set-up, best trail bike I have ever turned a pedal on.

  20. #20
    mtbr member
    Reputation: AndyN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    3,111
    Quote Originally Posted by nhodge
    what is the largest shim possible?
    You're limited to what will fit inside the outer air can of the HV RP23.

    The largest shim I have is 1.2mm thick, 31.5mm wide, and 138mm long. The width and length are maxed out. A slightly thicker shim would work, 1.5mm should be okay, but much thicker than that won't clear the inner can.

  21. #21
    destination unknown
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    1,519
    Hopefully I'll be able to get out there this weekend tiSSer so you can get a closer look at the bike on the trail. After our ride you can take it back up natty if you want.

  22. #22
    not so super...
    Reputation: SSINGA's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    11,480
    Quote Originally Posted by tiSS'er
    My TNT has passed on to the afterlife. I will be speaking with Greg today about my options. I have researched endlessly and I cannot find another company I would rather deal with, regardless of the suspension design.
    you broke my Spot?????
    Nothing to see here.

  23. #23
    Pivoteer
    Reputation: tiSS'er's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    3,429
    Quote Originally Posted by SSINGA
    you broke my Spot?????

    I'd like to say it was because I'm a stud...but more likely because I'm FAT!
    Employed by Pivot Cycles - www.pivotcycles.com

  24. #24
    Pivoteer
    Reputation: tiSS'er's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    3,429
    Quote Originally Posted by LncNuvue
    Hopefully I'll be able to get out there this weekend tiSSer so you can get a closer look at the bike on the trail. After our ride you can take it back up natty if you want.
    Looks like I will have to miss Friday. Gotta work to pay for a new ride. Saturday, GC, still on.
    Employed by Pivot Cycles - www.pivotcycles.com

  25. #25
    Team Sanchez
    Reputation: NAKED1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    204
    Quote Originally Posted by tiSS'er
    Saturday, GC, still on.
    OK I'm in.

  26. #26
    ronniering guy
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    23
    Going to Czech for 3 weeks this Thursday going to miss riding with all you guys at GC this weekend.Heck I'm going to miss riding period.

  27. #27
    Pivoteer
    Reputation: tiSS'er's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    3,429
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucky Stryke
    Going to Czech for 3 weeks this Thursday going to miss riding with all you guys at GC this weekend.Heck I'm going to miss riding period.
    We're gonna miss you little buddie. Be safe and we will get some tiume in when you get back.
    Employed by Pivot Cycles - www.pivotcycles.com

  28. #28
    Elitest thrill junkie
    Reputation: Jayem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    23,656
    I did not miss my avalanche when I demoed a DW 5-spot. The low-compression tune on the RP23 coupled with the DW axle path really ate up bumps with ease, it was one of the best air-shock experience I've ever had, as most air shocks have too much compression damping and are somewhat harsh. I didn't have any issues with bottoming or wallow, but it was a test-ride, so only so much you can do. The DW link would probably benefit from a coil, but much less than making the same change on your TNT spot, and I wouldn't be looking to immediately switch out the shock if I got a DW link Spot or Sultan. It simply works that well.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  29. #29
    DGC
    DGC is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation: DGC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,345

    I want to add

    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    I did not miss my avalanche when I demoed a DW 5-spot. The low-compression tune on the RP23 coupled with the DW axle path really ate up bumps with ease, it was one of the best air-shock experience I've ever had, as most air shocks have too much compression damping and are somewhat harsh. I didn't have any issues with bottoming or wallow, but it was a test-ride, so only so much you can do. The DW link would probably benefit from a coil, but much less than making the same change on your TNT spot, and I wouldn't be looking to immediately switch out the shock if I got a DW link Spot or Sultan. It simply works that well.

    And I will add a little more.......(for everyone not just towards Jayem)...........go to the PUSH light valving tuned RP23 for the DW Spot, use my shim or the PUSH tuned bottom out system, then add the Enduro needle bearing shock eye kit and you really will never feel the need for a coil on the DW 5er. This ends up being probably the ultimate air shock feels like a coil thing.
    First time I rode my shock after having had the PUSH tune I thought the air pressure was waaay low in the shock (it was'nt), it just ate everything up on the trail......felt the same thing again when I tested the Enduro needle bearing kit for awhile before posting it here, the rear now feels equal or better than the Lyrik coil up front.

    Just for a reference, what I asked for in the Push tune was the lightest compression damping avaliable at the time (last September).
    OUCH...!!!!!!

  30. #30
    Pivoteer
    Reputation: tiSS'er's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    3,429
    Quote Originally Posted by DGC
    And I will add a little more.......(for everyone not just towards Jayem)...........go to the PUSH light valving tuned RP23 for the DW Spot, use my shim or the PUSH tuned bottom out system, then add the Enduro needle bearing shock eye kit and you really will never feel the need for a coil on the DW 5er. This ends up being probably the ultimate air shock feels like a coil thing.
    First time I rode my shock after having had the PUSH tune I thought the air pressure was waaay low in the shock (it was'nt), it just ate everything up on the trail......felt the same thing again when I tested the Enduro needle bearing kit for awhile before posting it here, the rear now feels equal or better than the Lyrik coil up front.

    Just for a reference, what I asked for in the Push tune was the lightest compression damping avaliable at the time (last September).
    Thanks for the info DGC. This is exactly what I was after. Sounds almost too good to be true!
    Employed by Pivot Cycles - www.pivotcycles.com

  31. #31
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    928
    Quote Originally Posted by tiSS'er
    Sounds almost too good to be true!
    So you're saying he PUSHED the truth a little ?
    Hear no evil. See no evil. Speak no evil. (Do it !?!)

  32. #32
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    163
    Put the Avy on the DW Spot and go enjoy. The CCDB on my DW Flux made it feel better than my DW Spot did with the RP23.

  33. #33
    Snapper
    Reputation: johnd663's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    489

    +1

    Quote Originally Posted by cheb
    Put the Avy on the DW Spot and go enjoy. The CCDB on my DW Flux made it feel better than my DW Spot did with the RP23.
    I went from TNT SPot with RP23 to CCDB and back to air. Then TNT Sultan with air to air with low volume sleave. Now DWL Sultan with air to CCDB and now back to air with LVS. The CCDB worked a treat on the DWL (much more than on the TNT) but was overkill for the trails l ride in OZ. Also l downscaled my fleet and my weight so the DWL had to be a little more well rounded hense to change back to air.
    You might need to vary the capasity of the air shock to suit your size, terrain and riding style or take the AVY with you.
    The DWL is certainly a different kind of animal and you will not be disappointed.
    JD
    Post with pics.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails TNT coil to DW Air?-pic_0012.jpg  


  34. #34
    mtbr member
    Reputation: G-AIR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,484

    AVY on DWL Spot

    Why don't you have Craig retune your Avy for the dwl Spot? Buy the Spot from Turner with out a shock to help cover the cost.

    TG

  35. #35
    Pivoteer
    Reputation: tiSS'er's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    3,429
    Thanks for all the info. Not a suprise at all, but Turner is taking care of me. Hmmm, now what color?????
    Employed by Pivot Cycles - www.pivotcycles.com

  36. #36
    locked - time out
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    759
    Repair, or DWL?

  37. #37
    Nothing can stop me now
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    1,026
    Quote Originally Posted by tiSS'er
    Thanks for all the info. Not a suprise at all, but Turner is taking care of me. Hmmm, now what color?????
    I would definitely think about raw...

    How could you go wrong with Sangria Red though? Match the old TNT spot color...

    Bob

  38. #38
    Pivoteer
    Reputation: tiSS'er's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    3,429
    Quote Originally Posted by glitz
    Repair, or DWL?

    My frame has been admitted to the Turner Health and Rehabilitation Network.
    Employed by Pivot Cycles - www.pivotcycles.com

  39. #39
    locked - time out
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    759
    Charcoal metallic blue

  40. #40
    Nothing can stop me now
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    1,026
    Quote Originally Posted by tiSS'er
    My frame has been admitted to the Turner Health and Rehabilitation Network.
    uh oh... do you need your avy back ...

  41. #41
    mtbr member
    Reputation: jncarpenter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    6,795
    Once you go black....


  42. #42
    locked - time out
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    759
    Maybe go for yellow. I don't see enough yellow Turners and they always look cool to me when I do.

  43. #43
    DGC
    DGC is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation: DGC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,345

    Blue

    Quote Originally Posted by tiSS'er
    Thanks for all the info. Not a suprise at all, but Turner is taking care of me. Hmmm, now what color?????
    Blue is not bad.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails TNT coil to DW Air?-_mg_4125-copy.jpg  

    OUCH...!!!!!!

  44. #44
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    928
    LOVE my blue. And unpainted rear (much preferred over the painted rears).
    Hear no evil. See no evil. Speak no evil. (Do it !?!)

  45. #45
    mr. wonderful
    Reputation: dirtbag's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    879
    Quote Originally Posted by glitz
    Maybe go for yellow. I don't see enough yellow Turners and they always look cool to me when I do.
    The old school bus yellow yes, the new lemon yellow not so much.

  46. #46
    locked - time out
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    759
    There are a couple yellows now.

  47. #47
    Nothing can stop me now
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    1,026
    Wonder how it compares to the knolly....

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •