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  1. #1
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    Cool-blue Rhythm Titanium Testicle

    UGI on Steroids!!!



    I called Avy and spoke with Craig. He and I discussed my application in great detail (7.75x2.25) . We talked about valving, performance, and even how the linkage position change of a longer shock could affect the stroke feel at different points in the travel. He asked about my skill level, weight, and even height...as he explained that taller folk tend to get back farther and thus put more leverage on the suspension.



    It feels quite a bit lighter than my 800# coil equipped DHX I'll weigh them later. This is a 700# spring.

    I ordered it late Friday and it hit my desk before lunch Tuesday!
    If Customer service is any indication of performance this shock is going to spank rabid monkies!

    Just in time for the long weekend.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Bikezilla; 11-21-2006 at 11:10 AM.
    Faster is better, even when it's not.

  2. #2
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    Nice! Give it a good beating this weekend, and let us know what you think. I considered the Avy long and hard at one point, and went with the Push instead.

  3. #3
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    Most excellent! This calls for a new set of pics, doesn't it?
    ****

  4. #4
    rr
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    Nice Zilla, so the shock will lift the rear a tad and give you around 7" travel?

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by rroeder
    Nice Zilla, so the shock will lift the rear a tad and give you around 7" travel?
    ...unless he swaps out the seat stay for the spot version. Should come relatively close to maintaining geometry with that mod.


  6. #6
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    [QUOTE=.........He asked about my skill level..... [/QUOTE]

    Did you tell him that you're a poseur?
    ****

  7. #7
    rr
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade
    Did you tell him that you're a poseur?
    Well he was ordering a "race tuned" shock with a Ti spring, no need to say anything right?


  8. #8
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    That's the plan. Spot stays and near 7" travel, according to Tscheezy's Party Pack

    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade
    Did you tell him that you're a poseur?
    No, but I did mention your name...that's when he recommended the Ti.
    Last edited by Bikezilla; 11-21-2006 at 12:22 PM.
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  9. #9
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    I just had a moment of UGI titanium jealousy, but I cured it by making a phone call an ordering a titanium 20 tooth chainring for my crankset. Not quite the same level of satisfaction as 'Zilla's purchase, but it will have to do.
    Someone else's turn: someone buy something!
    ****

  10. #10
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    Nice, nice, nice .. nothing like some Ti to mix in with the bling.

    I scored a 7.875x2.25 DHX-c uber cheap that's gonna spend some time on the Spack.

    Its 0 out right now, so I'm looking forward to ride reports and pics...
    The red couch has moved from Alaska to Florida...

  11. #11
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    ...'Zilla, I'm looking forward to your feedback. I have been contemplating a second Avy for just this setup. Just found out they are planning to begin construction on a gravity-fed extreme bike park less than 7 miles from my house. I need to start planning


  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikezilla
    ]

    No, but I did mention your name...
    I'm suprised he sold you the shock if that's the case! Craig didn't quite like my application or my approach to our conversation.
    ****

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikezilla
    ..taller folk tend to get back farther and thus put more leverage on the suspension.
    I'd never thought about shock performance in that way. Seems to make sense. As if bike design, riding style, component selection, terrain, subjective experience, etc. don't cloud things enough now we need to think about how rider height affects leverage on the suspension! (I should say a relatively noob such as myself never considered height in this way).

    What do you say we reset the clock and start the whole TNT/Horst Link debate all over again?

    (kidding)


  14. #14
    involuntary dismounter
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    hey BZ -

    good to see you FINALLY got some bling...your bikes are just so PLAIN!
    Solo Trail Explorer and Granny Gear Ninja!


    friends will help you move, good friends will help you move a body...

  15. #15
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    I hear's ya Clyde...what's a poseur to do?
    Just goes to show you how performance oriented race-tuning is. One day I hope to have the skills to appreciate it.

    Quote Originally Posted by jncarpenter
    they are planning to begin construction on a gravity-fed extreme bike park less than 7 miles from my house.
    Lucky devil, you got a guest room?

    Hey Renny, I was kidding.
    I either cought him on a good day or you really must have had your instagade carma in full flow. Craig couldn't have been more informative and helpful. He even mentioned some guy with custom rockers... that's when I mentioned you ... but he was talking about someone in New England.
    Faster is better, even when it's not.

  16. #16
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    After the RFX, I'm on UGI hiatus. Though that Ti spring looks really tasty.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikezilla
    [FONT=Verdana]
    Hey Renny, I was kidding.
    I either cought him on a good day or you really must have had your instagade carma in full flow. Craig couldn't have been more informative and helpful. He even mentioned some guy with custom rockers... that's when I mentioned you ... but he was talking about someone in New England.
    I know you were kidding Alex; I was too.
    I thought I was being as neutral as possible during our e-mail conversation. Perhaps if I had had a verbal conversation with Craig, the outcome would have been different.
    BTW, check your e-mail!
    ****

  18. #18
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    It's an East Coast thang baby, you wouldn't understand.

    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade
    I thought I was being as neutral as possible during our e-mail conversation. Perhaps if I had had a verbal conversation with Craig, the outcome would have been different.
    Naaah that's how we flow out this way. I only sugar up my posts for mass consumption.

    Dh, bling? this ain't bling... now if I can get the spring Ti-nitride treated it'll be spanky gold...now that would be BLING! Ideas anyone?
    Last edited by Bikezilla; 11-21-2006 at 01:37 PM.
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  19. #19
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    That Avy looks sweet.. I'll definitely wait for the ride reports!

  20. #20
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    Very nice Zilla! I can't wait to hear about how it rides.
    I 'm just wondering, if I do the same mod, would Push be able to extend the stroke of my DHX-C to 2.25, and have the correct i2i (while doing the upgrade of course), or do I have to go shopping? I thought El-C mentioned Darren did it for his new FRX when he sent it in.

  21. #21
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    Bikezilla, Thanks for resetting the place back on an even keel
    Enjoy the Shock,but bear in mind you are committing a cardinal sin in changing two things at once while setting up suspension
    Stay off the brakes

  22. #22
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    Whew!!! I'm glad to see this post is about rear shocks and not those new fake nuts you can get for your dog. I was concerned when I saw the title.

    Nice Zilla! Can't wait to hear how it rides. A rear shock is among several upgrades I am considering for my RFX.

  23. #23
    FM
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    Hey BZ, are you sure that you won't experience metal-on metal at full compression with that extra stroke? I put a nice dent in the seatstay bridge of my '02 RFX using a 7.5x2.25 with 5" rockers, but only after a few weeks of riding and a trip to Moab.
    Last edited by FM; 11-21-2006 at 02:17 PM.

  24. #24
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    FM, I'm not sure but posted experiences sound promising.
    A few ppl have tried the 7.875x2.25 shock apparently w/o linkage collisions. Bear in mind they were also running the shorter 5 Spot seatstays and the Pack is somewhat different than the classic RFX. This is a 7.75x2.25 BTW so the longer I2I should more than make up for the increase in stroke.

    I will check the frame motion with the 5S SS, without the shock, at an equivalant fully compressed I2I (5.5") and see if the linkage or rear wheel makes contact.
    Last edited by Bikezilla; 11-21-2006 at 02:30 PM.
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  25. #25
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    hey septic.

    i asked darren about this just this past friday. no go. he had a few spares layin around and el c grabbed em all up. done and gone.
    No, I'm NOT back!

  26. #26
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    Neuticles!

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinch
    Whew!!! I'm glad to see this post is about rear shocks and not those new fake nuts you can get for your dog. I was concerned when I saw the title.
    A buddy of mine had some put in his rotty after he became an it. That dog sure seemed to like 'em. couldn't keep his mouth away

    BTW, very nice shock.

  27. #27
    FM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikezilla
    FM, I'm not sure but posted experiences sound promising.
    A few ppl have tried the 7.875x2.25 shock apparently w/o linkage collisions. .
    My bad- I missed that you are increasing the i1i as well- you should be fine!

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade
    Perhaps if I had had a verbal conversation with Craig, the outcome would have been different.
    ...Hmmmmmmm, sounds like some advice you got from the get-go!


  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikezilla
    Dh, bling? this ain't bling... now if I can get the spring Ti-nitride treated it'll be spanky gold...now that would be BLING! Ideas anyone?
    TiN coating? Hmmmm, you might want to read up on it a bit; http://www.tincoat.net/index.html
    just rattle can the spring instead!
    ****

  30. #30
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    Sweet Zilla! Looking foward to the ride reports.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by cactuscorn
    hey septic.

    i asked darren about this just this past friday. no go. he had a few spares layin around and el c grabbed em all up. done and gone.
    Oh well. bummer! Thanks for the info. Anyone know the price difference between a new Avy and a DHX-C? And how many clams for the Ti spring upgrade?

    CC, it sounds like your on the same research path. I better order my spot seat stays before they are all gone!

    On a different note, I notice that my 06 RFX purges grease much better at all pivots then my 05 Spot. I hope the Spot stays don't change that. Are the bushings any less beefy at the rocker? I also wonder if the Spot stays will give any noticable flex.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikezilla
    I called Avy and spoke with Craig. He and I discussed my application in great detail (7.75x2.25) . We talked about valving, performance, and even how the linkage position change of a longer shock could affect the stroke feel at different points in the travel. He asked about my skill level, weight, and even height...
    Hey 'zilla, just curious, what're you weighing in at now? I noticed you moved to a lower spring rate, is this because of the additional shock stroke length? Has the average leverage ratio decreased, or is it the same?

    Sorry about all the questions, I'm just thinking that this may be a move I'd want to make in the future and wanted to get clearer on the details. Thanks.

    Patrick

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    Congrats, ZIlla.

    My wife has been asking me what I want for xmas... and I haven't been able to decide. I think that I now have an idea Thanks..

    I'll be waiting impatiently for that ride report.

  34. #34
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    Btwn wrenching and tending family

    Hit and run Q&A:
    DHX 5.0 w/800# steel coil: 2.16lb / 980g
    Avalanche Chubby w/700# Ti coil: 1.89lb / 860g
    Difference: 0.27lb / 120g lighter

    Price? I belive I put the price in the thread title.
    Also check Avy's website
    (And I said I'd never pay the crazy money for a CCDB )

    -I'm 230# now Plan on getting down to 220 by spring...here's to big dreams.
    -Orangerider... thanks for sharing... just in time for dinner.
    -Renny... Rattlecan a Ti spring? GHETTTOOOO!!
    -Blue... If you ask your wife for a Ti Avy for the holidays, can I have your bike after she sees the price?
    -Septic... the pivot hardware is the same for all Turners except the Highline, DHR and Rail. I don't believe you will notice any stiffness difference going to the Spot stays. Most of the rear triangle beef on the RFX is concentrated in the chainstays, and the Spot seatstays are shorter and may make up for what little stiffness loss they have being lighter.

    Ride report? heh... comparisons will be tough with so many variables between setups. I will tell you what I think, that's for sure.
    I'll be calling Craig tomorrow with some basic setup questions, as I'd like to know about the HS/LS adjusters:how many clicks they have, do they have a stop at the end, and what to look for while tweaking.
    Last edited by Bikezilla; 11-21-2006 at 07:41 PM.
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  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikezilla
    -Septic... the pivot hardware is the same for all Turners except the Highline, DHR and Rail. I don't believe you will notice any stiffness difference going to the Spot stays. Most of the rear triangle beef on the RFX is concentrated in the chainstays, and the Spot seatstays are shorter and may make up for what little stiffness loss they have being lighter.
    When i went from the romic to the avy on my DHR i noticed a differance. It also makes a differance in the long term, less side loading on the shock means longer between services

    Quote Originally Posted by Bikezilla
    Ride report? heh... comparisons will be tough with so many variables between setups. I will tell you what I think, that's for sure.
    I'll be calling Craig tomorrow with some basic setup questions, as I'd like to know about the HS/LS adjusters:how many clicks they have, do they have a stop at the end, and what to look for while tweaking.
    Gold/Silver needle = 22 clicks
    Blue knob = 3.25 turns

    Start with both knobs would in half way.

    Ride around the street. Wind in LS more to reduce pedal bobbing, unwind if more active ride wanted.

    Then slam the back wheel into the gutter a few times, and adjust HS till it feels not too harsh.

    That should get you close to a good setting, then fine tune riding on the trails.

  36. #36
    trail fairy
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    Good to see ya stepping it up Zilla

    look fwd to the ride reports
    Just riding a muddy trail. . ..

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  37. #37
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    'Zilla - good to see you are restating your authority over the Crown of Bling... I thought Fo had the bling-homers looking nervous for a while with his new wheels. I can't help noticing that the Avy will go with the green and gold colour scheme far better than the Fox: good work! Looking forward to the ride report, though that is of course secondary to the UGI-inducing pics ;-)
    'I've got a bike, you can ride it if you like. It's got a basket, a bell that rings, and things to make it look good' - Syd B

  38. #38
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    What; no "titanium testicle mounted on the bike displayed on the altar" pics yet?
    'Zilla, you're slacking!
    ****

  39. #39
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    Hey 'Zilla, I found some new brakes for you. The color scheme looks like a fit, check them out:

    ****

  40. #40
    Nightriding rules SuperModerator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade
    Hey 'Zilla, I found some new brakes for you. The color scheme looks like a fit, check them out:

    Cool! Gator brakes!!

  41. #41
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    Yea, and they're on sale too!
    http://www.pricepoint.com/detail/157...Disc-Brake.htm

    " Gatorbrake 8 Piston Disc Brake has a CNC Machined cold forged 7075-T6 Aircraft Aluminum caliper. Eight pistons with two different diameters for progressive braking. Includes two pairs of independent, all-weather compound pads and all stainless steel hardware kit. Two piece forged alloy master cylinder/lever with oil level indicator and two finger reach adjustment to conform to every riders preference. Titanium plated stainless steel rotor is made from professional quality, hi-grade stainless steel. Heat treated and fine ground for a magnificent finish. 203mm (8") for both front and rear rotors for extreme DH usage. Super Supreme Stainless Steel / Kevlar / P.T.F.E. hydraulic racing hose with special 'Carbon Look' outer covering. Dupont's P.T.F.E. underlay reinforced with braided kevlar brand fiber and strengthened with AISI 304 stainless steel wire mesh plus a scratch resistant transparent cover. The premier hose used in Formula 1 racing."
    ****

  42. #42
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    They are somewhat heavy, if I remember correctly.... but who cares, right?

    EDIT: Just checked the link.. the weight is there about 640 g per wheel... I suppose that is the weight of the front one and a bit more for the rear..

  43. #43
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    These are the brakes that Fo'mer should have got for his RFX! [except that they don't come in white. ]
    ****

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade
    These are the brakes that Fo'mer should have got for his RFX! [except that they don't come in white. ]
    Here's the link to their website for more pics and info

    http://www.gatorbrake.com

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by cave dweller
    Gold/Silver needle = 22 clicks
    Blue knob = 3.25 turns ...
    Thanks man. This is just what I'm looking for. I'll give it a go.
    Faster is better, even when it's not.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade
    Hey 'Zilla, I found some new brakes for you. The color scheme looks like a fit, check them out:

    WEAKSAUCE!! No vented floating rotor!
    Nothing to see here.

  47. #47
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    I just rode with a buddy toda and he had a set of new Oros dammed spanky to say the least. I want those gold and black braided hoses for shimano brakes!
    Faster is better, even when it's not.

  48. #48
    trail fairy
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    BZ

    You want some bling Shimano aint it dude what

    You want some new Hope Moto 6s with that ice cutter rotor or do the FO shiz

    You have to match the Avy dude
    Just riding a muddy trail. . ..

    MAXXIS 4C!
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  49. #49
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    Good job! Installation Update

    Edit:
    ... moved to 2nd page ...
    Last edited by Bikezilla; 11-28-2006 at 10:28 AM.
    Faster is better, even when it's not.

  50. #50
    Nightriding rules SuperModerator
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    Wow.. very thorough.. great post Zilla!

  51. #51
    rr
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    Very nice Zilla, how do like the the HR UST? I have the FA UST up front on my Burner and would like to try the HR UST in the rear also, probably the 2.1 version though. How much does it weigh?

    BTW, firiends don't let friends drink Corona, you east coast guys have some damn fine microbrews so make sure you take care of that OK.

  52. #52
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    Yo RR, I'm very impressed with the MHR-UST. My 2.35UST weighed out at 850g. Up until now the one rear tire I liked most was my Nokian NBX (1080g) and I have to say I like the HR much more. I've been throwing every thing at it, rocks roots, hardpack leaves wet and dry and it just keeps me smiling. I haven't much mud experience but the limited stuff I've hit sheds pretty well. Larry's got some good prices on them. I think I'll have a go with the 2.5UST too. I hear they make a good front tire... I'll probably try it up front after my Albert is done.

    Corona is the coca-cola of beer... get's the job done and is best served just before it freezes.
    Brooklyn Brewery's Black Chocolate Stout is my favorite... haven't seen it since I moved to the 'Burbs.
    Faster is better, even when it's not.

  53. #53
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    Installation Update (moved from 1st page)

    I'm Still running ragged but I at least had time to do the conversion and check the numbers.
    No ride yet but thanks to Tscheezy's thorough experimenting and careful analysis, the numbers are very good.

    Here's the data:
    Frame: '06 RFX
    Fork: 66SL set at @158mm
    Tires: Fat Albert 2.35UST(f) High Roller 2.35UST(r)
    Shocks: Stock DHX-C 7.5x2.0 / Avy Chubby 7.75x2.25


    Before:


    After:


    Stock Config / Mod Config
    BB: 14.5" / 14.5 + 1/8"
    HTA: 67.5 / 67.5
    STA: 71.5* / 72*
    SSA: 61* / ~61*
    CSA: 5* / ~6*
    RA: 1.5* / 2.5*
    Pretty kewl there's almost no real geometry change!

    Seatstays:
    The RFX seatstay weighs .72lb/330g with the pivot hw. The 5S SS weighs .55/250g
    The RFX SS is .88mm wide just beneath the upper yoke welds. The 5S SS is 79.5m wide at the same point.



    Clearance:
    To check the linkage clearance at max compression I put holes in a paint stick at 5.5" No linkage collision at all.
    My Fder just barely touches the CS-yoke in the granny gear position. Easy to lift it up a mm or two. There is at least 5-7mm of tire clearance with the Maxxis High Roller 2.35UST tire. One could probably get away with a slightly taller tire too.



    As I said the Der just barely touches in the granny. I can always raise it. Not too shabby. I don't think I'll be blowing through 7" in the granny too often though.

    Measurement methods:
    I used a carpenter's level to check the floor and also made sure the bike was vertically level.
    I marked the tire position on the floor to make sure I used the same location to measure the change.
    I measured each angle at least (4) times. I tried my best to make sure the finder was held flat on the HT badge. The fact that it's measurement matched each stanchion angle measurement suggests it was reasonably consistant.
    The angle finder is barely readable to about a half degree but eyeballing it is tough so assume at least .5 margin of error.

    Bottom Bracket: (pix taken before the conversion)



    Head Tube Angle:


    Heat Tube Angle (at the stanchion):

    I read a debate that the stanchion may not be an accurate place to measure the HTA due to fork rake. In this case, it came out the same as measured at the head tube. I suppose if I took the fork off and put it in the stand with the Steerer at 90* I could confirm the stanchion rake. Some other day.

    Seat Tube Angle:


    Seat Stay Angle:


    Chain Stay Angle:


    Rocker Angle:

    I included linkage angles in to consider if changes there affect the feel through the stroke.

    Cheers!<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->
    Last edited by Bikezilla; 11-28-2006 at 12:03 PM.
    Faster is better, even when it's not.

  54. #54
    Well Biked
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    Thanks for the great post, and all the measurements! I am looking forward to your review. Hope your wrist is doing better also.

  55. #55
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    Awesome Zilla - Please give us a ride report as well. :-)
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    - Stephen Wright

  56. #56
    Amphibious Technologies
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikezilla
    Stock Config / Mod Config
    BB: 14.5" / 14.5 + 1/8"
    HTA: 67.5 / 67.5
    STA: 71.5* / 72*
    SSA: 61* / ~61*
    CSA: 5* / ~6*
    RA: 1.5* / 2.5*
    Pretty kewl there's almost no real geometry change!
    Very cool indeed! Nice job zilla. It's nice to know that the angles essentially stay the same.
    Last edited by SCUBAPRO; 11-28-2006 at 12:17 PM.
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  57. #57
    Flyin Canine
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    awesome work zilla. Thanks for the extra effort to post all the pics and measurments.

  58. #58
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    So did I miss the ride reports????
    Beer has food value. Food has no beer value.

  59. #59
    Lay off the Levers
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    Nope... . I started writing up my thoughts but there's a few other things i want to try, and I need to take some pix too.
    If I had to give my first impression I'd say I was almost ready to go to confession, cause something that feels this good is usually a sin.
    Faster is better, even when it's not.

  60. #60
    not so super...
    Reputation: SSINGA's Avatar
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    That's code for: I'm building a shrine for the shock lined with red velvet. Only then can I post pictures.
    Nothing to see here.

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikezilla
    If I had to give my first impression I'd say I was almost ready to go to confession, cause something that feels this good is usually a sin.
    Mantra I must repeat to myself:
    "I will be happy with a Pushed Vanilla RC and I do not need an Avalanche, I will be happy with a Pushed Vanilla RC and I do not need an Avalanche, I will be happy with a Pushed Vanilla RC and I do not need an Avalanche, etc."

    So no rush on that ride report, or at least until I've Pushed my RC (another month or so)...OK?

  62. #62
    not so super...
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCinSC
    Mantra I must repeat to myself:
    "I will be happy with a Pushed Vanilla RC and I do not need an Avalanche, I will be happy with a Pushed Vanilla RC and I do not need an Avalanche, I will be happy with a Pushed Vanilla RC and I do not need an Avalanche, etc."
    So no rush on that ride report, or at least until I've Pushed my RC (another month or so)...OK?
    Patrick - fatal flaw in your mantra. This is never about need.
    Nothing to see here.

  63. #63
    long standing member
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSINGA
    Patrick - fatal flaw in your mantra. This is never about need.
    You and your damned, twisted Homer logic...I'm gonna end up bankrupt!

    But at least I'll have a nice riding bike.

    Alright 'Zilla, I guess I'm ready when to hear about your Ti shocker when you are ready to share.
    Last edited by PCinSC; 12-20-2006 at 09:30 PM.

  64. #64
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    Y'know what, I could probably drag this out forever (and probably already have). If y'all don't mind a long-arsed pictureless writeup, maybe I'll post my "initial" thoughts today.
    Faster is better, even when it's not.

  65. #65
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    Do it. Just do it!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bikezilla
    Y'know what, I could probably drag this out forever (and probably already have). If y'all don't mind a long-arsed pictureless writeup, maybe I'll post my "initial" thoughts today.
    I think you've covered the pic requirement thus far w/ this thread, and we all have seen the terrain you ride, so please, at least in the spirit of christmas, give us a damned writup already!
    Beer has food value. Food has no beer value.

  66. #66
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    Hookay, you asked for it:
    Merry Christmas!
    Faster is better, even when it's not.

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