Page 1 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 130
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    144

    Thanks for the many great years

    Dave,

    Thanks for the many great years.

    I’ve been riding turner’s for some time now and have always felt their bikes are the pinnacle in climbing, breaking, and descending performance. That being said, I’ve purchased my very last Turner (until they return to their former glory)

    I fully understand the reasoning for moving to TNT, but I’m just not buying it. Yes TNT may be “almost as good” but a compromise here today and one tomorrow is still a compromise non the less (mind you, when I spend more on a bike than my car I’m not looking to compromise)

    In the end, all I can think of is how grand the experience has been. Dave, please forgive me for moving on, and I’ll be sure to forgive you for TNT.

    Thanks for a wonderful ride (my 05 6pack should be fine for many years) and I’ll see you when you return to your formal glory.

    -A

  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Davide's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,861

    Ibis?

    Quote Originally Posted by chowdapilot

    Thanks for a wonderful ride (my 05 6pack should be fine for many years) and I’ll see you when you return to your formal glory.

    -A
    You got at last 5 years on that frame, I plan to spend 8 more on my obsolete Project-Push-Spotty 26 pounder (Finally working nicely, with Push Vanilla and Push Rp3, and Martas 180/160) after that who knows ... probably a stunning Taiwanese made frame made out of carbonizio

    Now .. if they discontinue the bushings ... it might be too much ... I might have to leave early

    Ibis? It is "only" $1899 retail with DW link and all carbon construction ... and it is an IBIS!
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Davide; 10-01-2005 at 02:10 AM.

  3. #3
    M070R-M0U7H FR3NCHI3
    Reputation: Acadian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    3,527
    I'm seriously considering that IBIS....such a nice bike!
    DW-Link, IBIS, 5.5" = drool...

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    516
    I do fancy the ibis as well, but would like to hear more about it's resistance to point impacts and chipping etc.
    I like my bike frames to last longer than a squash racket...

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation: xl_cheese's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    505
    Where do you put a water bottle?

  6. #6
    Elitest thrill junkie
    Reputation: Jayem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    19,272
    Quote Originally Posted by Davide

    Ibis? It is "only" $1899 retail with DW link and all carbon construction ... and it is an IBIS!
    Does "Ibis" have John C. and the other players back, or is the "new Ibis" just a new company with the same name as the old company?
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    332
    I'm considering buying a Turner, I have heard a lot of good things about them and was just wondering what is TNT and what is the difference from the way Turner use to do rear triangles? I'm assuming that it is a change in design of the rear triangle but really don't understand what the change is. Also what are the disadvantages and advantages if any?

    Thanks for any input, if this is answered in another thread please direct me to it if you don't mind.

    Thanks
    Chris

  8. #8
    Not just famous; infamous
    Reputation: coolhandluchs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,073
    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    Does "Ibis" have John C. and the other players back, or is the "new Ibis" just a new company with the same name as the old company?
    Sorta both, I think. Sounds like John C has his own company, but most of the others are in Ibis again. Muddle thru their website for more info....

    http://www.ibisbicycles.com

    I like the Mojo's specs and weight, the price is definitely competitive, but I think it's a fugly frame design. Guess I'm just too old-fashioned...or maybe just old.

  9. #9
    Elitest thrill junkie
    Reputation: Jayem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    19,272
    Quote Originally Posted by Single Track rookie
    I'm considering buying a Turner, I have heard a lot of good things about them and was just wondering what is TNT and what is the difference from the way Turner use to do rear triangles? I'm assuming that it is a change in design of the rear triangle but really don't understand what the change is. Also what are the disadvantages and advantages if any?

    Thanks for any input, if this is answered in another thread please direct me to it if you don't mind.

    Thanks
    Chris
    No more horst link on the back, the new TNT turners are like the ventanas where the rear pivot point is now above the axle. This means the suspension will stiffen up under braking more (brake squat) and the pedaling will be a little less efficiant overall.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    332
    Thanks for the response.

    I can see why people are upset over this, the pedal efficiency is been one of the big reason I wanted to buy a turner. I currently ride a hard tail I have been reluctant to go FS because of loss of pedal efficiency. I have been told this not the case with turners, that they pedal very well for FS bikes. I tried to look at a Ventanna and a turner side by side to see the difference but really couldn't tell. So I have somewhat of dumb queston, where is the horst link located on the turner flux?

    Thanks again.
    Chris

  11. #11
    Never enough time to ride
    Reputation: squish's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,529
    Quote Originally Posted by Single Track rookie
    Thanks for the response.

    I can see why people are upset over this, the pedal efficiency is been one of the big reason I wanted to buy a turner. I currently ride a hard tail I have been reluctant to go FS because of loss of pedal efficiency. I have been told this not the case with turners, that they pedal very well for FS bikes. I tried to look at a Ventanna and a turner side by side to see the difference but really couldn't tell. So I have somewhat of dumb queston, where is the horst link located on the turner flux?

    Thanks again.
    Chris
    Here's a couple of pics. The horst link is located forwad of and below the rear axle, like on my burner. the new pivot is above the rear axle. I have no opinion on what the ride difference is as I have had no time on either. But if I were you I'd read through the posts by Tscheezy and Bikezilla. Sounds like they don't ride much different. Biggest thing is don't form an opinion until you've had a chance to test one, or see some more in depth reviews.

    happy trails...

    squish
    Last edited by squish; 09-18-2007 at 10:02 AM.
    Get out and ride!

  12. #12
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    332
    Thanks, I can clearly tell now what is being talked about. I'm planning on Demo a Turn Flux soon. It will probably be an 05 model, wich probably doesn't incorporate the change. I guess I should try ride a brand that is set up like the second picture (without horst link) and see if there is a difference.

  13. #13
    Never enough time to ride
    Reputation: squish's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,529
    Quote Originally Posted by Single Track rookie
    Thanks, I can clearly tell now what is being talked about. I'm planning on Demo a Turn Flux soon. It will probably be an 05 model, wich probably doesn't incorporate the change. I guess I should try ride a brand that is set up like the second picture (without horst link) and see if there is a difference.
    Careful with that one to, different brands can ride totally different. Try to find a Turner with new rear end. Frame geometry, pivot locations, rocker shape and design, shock settings, it can all make a big difference in the way a bike can feel. But don't let that put you off, ride different bikes and make an informed decision you will be much happier with the bike you choose that way.

    happy trails...

    Josh
    Get out and ride!

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Davide's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,861

    Castellano / Flux

    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    Does "Ibis" have John C. and the other players back, or is the "new Ibis" just a new company with the same name as the old company?
    I think, just from Velonews, no "inside" info at all, that Castellano is right there (in the photo!). Which would be great because with Sherwood he is one of the real fathers of modern MTB.

    The Flux (and Nitrous) are not really close to the original Horsts designs which have the pivot much lower (look at GT LTS/STS linkage for a good example. The STS/LTS by the way, has fenomenal traction, better than my 5-spot: it is glued to the ground uphill ... but the shocks are different .. so you go again: which one is which).

    Very (very!) roughly speaking, Flux, and antecedent similars, are much closer to ITC with the pivot closer to the rear axle. It a design pioneered in the USA by Ellsworth, and very popular in Europe for 3-4" travel rear suspension.

    To tell the difference in performance between a true Horst or Horst/ITC or faux 4-bar takes a lot of work, which by itself tells you that these designs (especially when coupled with a modern superior suspension) will work in real life very similarly. But the faux 4-bar (or others DW-link VPP) don't have a weak spot right on the chain-stay.

    This is the point that people in the know (starting from Sherwood at Ventana - ending with http://www.dreambike.com/home.htm) made for years. Nice to notice that Tcheese and Bikezilla are finally realizing it now that daddy says so
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Davide; 10-01-2005 at 12:34 PM.

  15. #15
    3 "fiddy" for short
    Reputation: be350ka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    2,748
    I got an Email from Turner which said that they will be shipping Horst bikes until the end of the year (Dec. '05). So if you want the HL get it before it is gone!

  16. #16
    Elitest thrill junkie
    Reputation: Jayem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    19,272
    Quote Originally Posted by Davide

    To tell the difference in performance between a true Horst or Horst/ITC or faux 4-bar takes a lot of work, which by itself tells you that these designs (especially when coupled with a modern superior suspension) will work in real life very similarly. But the faux 4-bar (or others DW-link VPP) don't have a weak spot right on the chain-stay.
    True, but the entire reason we bought turners was that they use bushings, which eliminates the "weak spot".
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation: miles e's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    2,826
    Quote Originally Posted by be350ka
    I got an Email from Turner which said that they will be shipping Horst bikes until the end of the year (Dec. '05).
    Hmmm....Something about that seems less than arbitrary. When was the last time a manufacturer's model year coincided perfectly with the calender year?
    A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have.

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Davide's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,861

    Maybe / Nicolai / Ventana 29" El Capitan

    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    True, but the entire reason we bought turners was that they use bushings, which eliminates the "weak spot".
    Maybe ... a good bearing would do as well (Titus are famous for the rear rigidity), and Intense and others had downhill Horsts (with bearings of course). This is even more academical than discussions on linkages (which do differ!): well executed bushing or bearing will perform identically for all practical purposes on a 3-6" bike.

    However, the easy forecast is that nobody will be using bushings in the future. Bushings are now left only to Turner .. and Nicolai, which being a serious operation gives you the option, at least until last year, of bushings or bearings in their cross-country/all-mountain models.

    Oh and for Miles E: Ventana has been in production with El Capitan
    29" frame for a while: http://ventanausa.com/frame_elcapitan.html
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Davide; 10-01-2005 at 12:24 PM.

  19. #19
    banned
    Reputation: gonzostrike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    11,258
    chowdahead's origin post is a pathetic underhanded blackmail post. what a raging d!ck.

    say chowdahead, did you ride any of the '06 Turners that you so quickly dismiss?

    d!ck, I tell you. d!ck.
    Last edited by gonzostrike; 10-01-2005 at 12:10 PM.

  20. #20
    banned
    Reputation: gonzostrike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    11,258
    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    No more horst link on the back, the new TNT turners are like the ventanas where the rear pivot point is now above the axle. This means the suspension will stiffen up under braking more (brake squat) and the pedaling will be a little less efficiant overall.
    THEORETICALLY, you mean. THEORETICALLY.

    armchair engineers need to stop posting pseudo-knowledge as fact.

  21. #21
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    25
    Quote Originally Posted by chowdapilot
    Dave, please forgive me for moving on, and I’ll be sure to forgive you for TNT.
    Get a life you freak. It's a fusking bike.

  22. #22
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    1,624
    Quote Originally Posted by gonzostrike
    chowdahead's origin post is a pathetic underhanded blackmail post. what a raging d!ck.

    say chowdahead, did you ride any of the '06 Turners that you so quickly dismiss?

    d!ck, I tell you. d!ck.
    You said what I was thinking earlier! He obviously swallowed the Horst Link pill too. Come on, there's nothing wrong with TNT. It might only be a simple "Faux Bar" but then that derogatory term was only invented by HL evangelists to make their supposedly superior design look even better.

  23. #23
    FM
    FM is offline
    luxatio erecta
    Reputation: FM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    8,923
    Quote Originally Posted by Davide
    a good bearing would do as well (Titus are famous for the rear rigidity), and Intense and others had downhill Horsts (with bearings of course). This is even more academical than discussions on linkages (which do differ!): well executed bushing or bearing will perform identically for all practical purposes on a 3-6" bike.
    Absolutely not! I owned a switchblade for 1 year; I had to replace the bearings in the rockers every 3 months or so. Seemed like every time I checked them they were seized/crunchy. The bike was stiff, but nowhere near as stiff as my turner which as 1.5" more travel and has required a total of 15 minutes of pivot maintenance over 2 seasons of riding.

    a 5.5" carbon FS frame? Man i would lose sleep at night wondering when the head tube would fail! what do the bearings press into? what about chainsuck? what kind of bonded carbon/alu headtube is going to withstand repeated nose-heavy drops with a 160mm fork? Not for me thanks.

    As for showdapilots post, pretty pathetic.

    way too much *****ing and not enough riding going on around here.

  24. #24
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    144
    Quote Originally Posted by greenskin
    Get a life you freak. It's a fusking bike.
    Sorry to offend so many of you, I was simply telling it as I see it.

    As for getting a life, you're all very right, we're only talking about bikes here, not war, world hunger etc. For you to call me an f-ing diq, or anything else only shows how passionate you are about this topic.

    For me, I'm simply not interested in TNT. However, 5 years from now when I decide to upgrade from my 6pack, I'll be sure to weigh all options. That being said, if I was to purchase a bike today, I would not be tempted by a TNT pack.

    Again, sorry if I offended anyone. Please forgive my honesty, and though many of you may think I'm a "freak", I do not hold any hostility against any of your for your thoughts. In the end, we're only talking about fusking bikes right?

  25. #25
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    7,882

    Thanks for the...

    Quote Originally Posted by greenskin
    Get a life you freak. It's a fusking bike.
    Jeez--thanks for the many great years---David, please forgive me...

    I usually don't get too riled up over anything I read on this forum, but the original poster is so full of sh!t I had to say something. As far as I'm concerned, DTs reputation is still very much intact. Whatever direction he's taking his company, you can be sure, has been well thought out and his final products will still be typical Turner product--finely crafted, superbly riding bikes. Different doesn't mean inferior. TNT? Bring it on, I want to ride one!

Page 1 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •