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  1. #1
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    slight play in rear wheel

    I have some play in the rear wheel/rear end and I can't figure out what is causing it. With the bike on the ground I grab the top of the saddle with my right hand and the top of the rear wheel with my left hand. If I move the rear wheel laterally there is a tiny bit of play, or slop, in the rear wheel.

    Here is what I am working with:
    -new Flux
    -King Hubs/Sapim spokes/DT XR4.1d rims
    -XT cassette with Chris King lock ring

    Things I have checked so far:
    -adjusting cone on King hub is snug
    -dropout pivot nuts are tight
    -with the wheel off the bike, I can't detect any play in the cassette
    -skewer is tight

    Any ideas?
    Eat Food. Chop Wood. Ride Bike.

  2. #2
    No, that's not phonetic
    Reputation: tscheezy's Avatar
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    Instead of grabbing the saddle next time, grab the seat post. Next, grab the frame. Next the rockers, then the top of the seat stay.... etc. By process of elimination you can narrow it down. If the slop is still there when flexing the wheel relative to the seat or chainstays, then there is play in the axle bearings. The reverse process will tell you if there is play in the frame or elsewhere.

    Also try stepping on the rear rim to hold the wheel down and lift up and push down on the seat post gently. A clicking there indicates worn upper shock bushings.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by tscheezy
    Instead of grabbing the saddle next time, grab the seat post. Next, grab the frame. Next the rockers, then the top of the seat stay.... etc. By process of elimination you can narrow it down. If the slop is still there when flexing the wheel relative to the seat or chainstays, then there is play in the axle bearings. The reverse process will tell you if there is play in the frame or elsewhere.
    Great tips! I can still feel the play when I grab the seat stay with one hand and the top of the wheel with the other.

    Is the play in the axle bearings controlled by the adjusting cone? I just got done tightening the cone, using the king adjusting cone tool, and it was pretty snug.
    Eat Food. Chop Wood. Ride Bike.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave in Driggs

    Is the play in the axle bearings controlled by the adjusting cone? I just got done tightening the cone, using the king adjusting cone tool, and it was pretty snug.
    Yep. Maybe you didn't adjust it correctly. The rear hub cones need to be a bit more snug than the front hubs.

    2 - 5mm hex wrenches... loosen.....turn the cone until contact is made...re-tightnen (100 in-lbs?)

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave in Driggs
    -King Hubs
    the bearing preload needs adjusting. that's my bet. this issue happening repeatedly is what caused several of my friends to stop running King rear hubs.

    hopefully you won't have to do the preload more than once.

  6. #6
    ... I guess you won't be
    Reputation: jokermtb's Avatar
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    getting the cone preload on the king hubs is a bit of a dark art - since when you tighten the locknuts, you will get some additional rotation of the cone preload gizmo. So - you have to account for this when you tighten the whole thing up....it's good practice, so get poppin!

    I cant wait for you to get the king/xt cassette wriggle at whenever you shift into the smallest three cassette gears......yes virginia - you'll need "the spacer"......
    Yes, we do indeed rock...http://www.myspace.com/spokedrunkies

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by gonzostrike
    the bearing preload needs adjusting. that's my bet. this issue happening repeatedly is what caused several of my friends to stop running King rear hubs.

    hopefully you won't have to do the preload more than once.
    Yeah..like once every 1,000 miles...what an inconvenience!

    King hubs rock. Even if/when they do come out of adjustment, it takes less time to fix than a flat.

  8. #8
    ... I guess you won't be
    Reputation: jokermtb's Avatar
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    after cleaning the innards of my king hubs several times over the years, you get to really appreciate that the real beauty of the hubs is inside, not outside......simple and incredibly well designed, and the cone/locknut system is much much easier than the old style cups/cones that many hub users rely on.
    Yes, we do indeed rock...http://www.myspace.com/spokedrunkies

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpeedThrills
    Yeah..like once every 1,000 miles...what an inconvenience!

    King hubs rock. Even if/when they do come out of adjustment, it takes less time to fix than a flat.
    insecure about your King hubs, and feeling the need to defend them? why don't you try to "convince" my 3 friends, instead of spouting platitudes and puffery on MTBR.com?

  10. #10
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    the saga continues

    I know you are all thinking, "he is not tightening the preload cone properly". I read all of your posts carefully AND watched the Quicktime movie on the King website. I tightened it again this morning and I went a bit beyond "snug" using the King cone adjusting tool.

    I still have play in the rear end when I grab the top of the tire and move it laterally.

    I have the exact same hub/cassette combo on my 5 SPot and there is no play there. My King hubs on the 5 Spot are almost three years old and have never needed adjustment.
    Eat Food. Chop Wood. Ride Bike.

  11. #11
    Mr.Secret
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    Take off the rear shock ' cause it's easier to isolate a loose TNT or rocker link that way. Grab the compression strut ( seatstay ) with one hand , the swingarm with the other and see if it's a TNT link. Then grab by the rear dropout with one hand and push back and forth laterally while feeling all the other pivots with the other hand to check for tightness er, I mean play. I still think it's your hub though. Good luck............
    Last edited by R.T.R.; 06-03-2006 at 03:52 PM.

  12. #12
    on a routine expedition
    Reputation: Marshall Willanholly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpeedThrills
    Yeah..like once every 1,000 miles...what an inconvenience!
    I wish mine had only come out of adjustment that infrequently. My rear hub (with HD axle and funbolts) came out of adjustment once or twice a day when I was doing lift-serviced DH last summer. The front (20mm) got loose every couple of days. I should have kept my modified 3/32" allen velcro'd to my handlebar.

    I never had this issue during more XC oriented (or maybe it was "all-mountain," I'm just not sure anymore) riding with the QR versions of King hubs.

  13. #13
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    RTR has it right

    It's time to determine if the wheel is the culprit. Hopefully you have another rear wheel that you can swap out.

    If the new wheel has play.... it's likely the frame. I have seen issues with the pivot hardware where a bolt thread was damaged and it allowed for a tiny bit of play in the rear swingarm.

    I apologize if you've already done this and I missed it in a post.

  14. #14
    ... I guess you won't be
    Reputation: jokermtb's Avatar
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    you could have a pivot that is slightly out of tolerance, from the factory.....this happened to me once after installing brand new pivots - one pivot would still wobble a bit no matter what [just happened to be the main BB pivot, so it was pretty noticeable]. After contacting turner, they sent me out a few new bushings and shafts for free, just so I could replace the not quite thick enough one on my bike. They said that sometimes a stray pivot might not be quite thick enough and that can cause a wobble/clunk loose pivot effect - even when brand new. Its rare, but it happens - but Turner is very quick to help fix it.
    Yes, we do indeed rock...http://www.myspace.com/spokedrunkies

  15. #15
    Roy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Shorts
    RTR has it right

    It's time to determine if the wheel is the culprit. Hopefully you have another rear wheel that you can swap out.

    If the new wheel has play.... it's likely the frame.
    Also, stick the wheel in question on your Spot's frame, which you said doesn't have the play. If it has play on the Spot, then you know it's something with the wheel or cassette.

  16. #16
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    The hub is good. I put the rear wheel from the Flux in the 5 Spot and there is no play. None, zip, zilch, nada. The good news that I can obviously follow instructions and can tighten my rear hub properly. The bad news is that there is still play in the rear of my Flux.

    So I must have some play in one of the bushings. With the wheel off the bike and the bike in the workstand it is tough to feel any play and isolate which bushing it is. If I grab a seatstay with each hand and and torque them in opposite directions I can feel a tiny bit of play but I can't where it is coming from.
    Eat Food. Chop Wood. Ride Bike.

  17. #17
    gravity curmudgeon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave in Driggs
    The hub is good. I put the rear wheel from the Flux in the 5 Spot and there is no play. None, zip, zilch, nada. The good news that I can obviously follow instructions and can tighten my rear hub properly. The bad news is that there is still play in the rear of my Flux.

    So I must have some play in one of the bushings. With the wheel off the bike and the bike in the workstand it is tough to feel any play and isolate which bushing it is. If I grab a seatstay with each hand and and torque them in opposite directions I can feel a tiny bit of play but I can't where it is coming from.
    Following this thread with interest. I have a large Flux and notice flex in the rear when riding. I've posted this a couple of times here. It is not the wheel/hub (switched rear wheels with another bike, wheels true, hubs in appropriately maintained, etc.). Aside from that negative evidence I can't figure out where it is coming from either. All the pivots/bushings are tightened to appropriate torques and don't appear to have any obvious play from wear or anything. Still love the bike, but flex is flex and something I didn't expect from the design/quality. Rode Five Spot and Motolite demos last week, and the rear on each felt very stiff in comparison.

  18. #18
    ... I guess you won't be
    Reputation: jokermtb's Avatar
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    I've always found it really difficult to isolate if there is a bad bushing somewhere. What I've resorted to an it seems to work, is if I remove the horst link/ or TNT pivots entirely. By doing so I can grab the chainstay swingarm, rock it back and forth to see if it's wriggly. I can also grab the seatstay portion, extend it outwards so I have a real long lever, and move it side to side. This tends to narrow it down, and it's no sweat to do. This seems to be the most effective way to see if there is an obviously loose pivot. And, it gives you an opportunity to squirt some Prep M in the little horst/tnt pivots!
    Yes, we do indeed rock...http://www.myspace.com/spokedrunkies

  19. #19
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    cowDawg, if I'm not mistaken, the Flux rear assembly is designed to be lightweight and XC race-oriented and therefore might feel flexy in tougher more technical terrain, especially if you are not whippet-thin like most serious XC racers.

  20. #20
    gravity curmudgeon
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    Quote Originally Posted by gonzostrike
    cowDawg, if I'm not mistaken, the Flux rear assembly is designed to be lightweight and XC race-oriented and therefore might feel flexy in tougher more technical terrain, especially if you are not whippet-thin like most serious XC racers.
    Good point -- one that has crossed my mind on more than one occassion.

  21. #21
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    A sloppy dropout bushing/shaft interface proved to be the cause. Turner is providing excellent customer service as usual and is sending a new dropout bushing kit.

    Thanks to everyone for all the help in figuring this one out.
    Eat Food. Chop Wood. Ride Bike.

  22. #22
    gravity curmudgeon
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    Quote Originally Posted by cowDawg
    Good point -- one that has crossed my mind on more than one occassion.
    Now that I think about this, however, isn't the rear tri the same on the flux as the five spot? The rocker is different, of course.

    Good to hear you figured out the problem Dave.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by cowDawg
    Now that I think about this, however, isn't the rear tri the same on the flux as the five spot? .
    It's exactly the same.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Shorts
    It's exactly the same.
    interesting. I thought I read somewhere that the 4X bikes used by Turner's sponsored pros were Flux fronts with 5-Spot rears set at 4" travel. that's where I got the notion that the Spot rear assembly was different.

    so what's the difference? rockers? shock stroke length?

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by gonzostrike
    ..so what's the difference? rockers? shock stroke length?
    ...front tri, geometry, different shock stroke/ rockers.


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