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  1. #1
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    New question here. Romic compression and rebound settings

    I've got Romic shocks on both my 5 Spot and Joker. To get the feel I like on each bike the shock set up is at opposite ends of the scale.
    Just curious what compression and rebound settings other 5 Spot riders are using. I'm thinking that the Joker Romic might need some maintenance. I could switch the shocks but I'm not sure if the Romic is custom valved for either bike.
    Thoughts?

  2. #2
    No, that's not phonetic
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    My Romics have been hit and miss. If you are finding they behave very differently on the two bikes, by all means switch them if you can. On one of mine, the compression dampening went out. No matter what setting I tried on the blue knob, the effect stayed the same. This is a common malfunction with the Romics based on feedback here. Another Romic of mine just spewed all its oil. This is also common. The most common of all (in my experience) is obscenely fast eyelet wear. We are talking major wiggle after 3 months of use. Totally unacceptable. I'm going to press some Fox DU bushings in and use Fox reducers. If your Romic has a problem, Romic is good about fixing it. That is nice and all, but I would rather have a shock which does not need servicing every 1-3 months in the first place. Why do you think I ride a Turner, anyway? Yup, dependability.

    tscheezy

    PS- I run medium-slow rebound and NO compression clicks for most conditions, and I may add a few clicks (up to 6) for long road climbs. That said, I rode my Spot 60 miles on the road (with knobbies no less!) a few days ago and didn't run any compression clicks. Full-fast baby. Why would someone log 60 road miles on a 32 pound full suspension bike with big knobbies? That's another post...
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  3. #3
    LGB
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    Compression dampening & spring weight

    Tscheezy,

    I'm 5 weeks into my new Spot and running little-to-no compression dampening & little-to-no preload.

    Can't help wondering whether running a lower spring weight would allow me to better "dial" the shock response by calling both compression dampening and preload into play. Thoughts?

    For what its worth, I'm running a 550 spring and weigh 190 with gear.

    Cheers, LGB

  4. #4
    No, that's not phonetic
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    Quote Originally Posted by LGB
    I'm 5 weeks into my new Spot and running little-to-no compression dampening & little-to-no preload.

    Can't help wondering whether running a lower spring weight would allow me to better "dial" the shock response by calling both compression dampening and preload into play. Thoughts?

    For what its worth, I'm running a 550 spring and weigh 190 with gear.
    Preload and spring rate are related. Both play a part in sag. Compression dampening and rebound do not affect sag at all. Some people like a soft spring with lots of preload while others like the "correct" spring with no preload. I guess I'm the latter. If you can generate correct sag (I look for about 15-20% depending on how much bottoming control I want), you are ballpark on a spring rate. If you seem to be bottoming too much, go to a stiffer spring and run less preload to get the correct sag. If you never bottom, you can try a softer spring and add preload to get the correct sag. Even though I mention sag quite a bit here, I really do not put as much importance on it as some do. I think it is a starting point, not and end point. My real yardstick is how much travel I can get without bottoming harshly on a big, poorly-landed hit. Getting full travel is nice, but not at the expense of slamming your shock to the bumper over and over. The forces transferred to the frame are incredible.

    I notice a difference in ride quality (suppleness) and ride height (the effect of sag) when I change the preload on my coil. I notice that more than at different compression settings. Running a too-soft coil will not make the dampening settings more noticeable, it will just cause you to need to run too much preload and still bottom the shock. Having two springs is nice: a soft one for xc rides when you want a buttery-feeling couch on wheels, and a firm one for doing seatpost colonoscopies while dropping down Rock Stacker off Amasa Back in Moab.

    Push your bottomout bumper down the shaft towards the shock body and ride a few days. Check occassionally to see if you have pushed the bumper all the way to the end of the shaft. Play with different preloads and see if you can balance initial suppleness (less preload, soft spring) with good bottoming resistance.

    One benefit to SPV shocks is their incredible bottoming resistance. In the last two months I tried bikes with 3-Way Air, 4-Way Coil, and 5th Element Air shocks, and Minute 3:00 and Sherman Breakout Plus forks, and they exhibited some of the best bottoming control, relatively independant of spring rates or settings, I have seen. That impresses me more than the "platform" nature of the shocks. Yeah, in some forks you can play with oil height, but how about rear shocks? Not so easy, huh?

    tscheezy
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  5. #5
    Ouch, I am hot!
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    I am a freak, erg, I just get freaked.

    Quote Originally Posted by tscheezy
    My Romics have been hit and miss. If you are finding they behave very differently on the two bikes, by all means switch them if you can. On one of mine, the compression dampening went out. No matter what setting I tried on the blue knob, the effect stayed the same. This is a common malfunction with the Romics based on feedback here. Another Romic of mine just spewed all its oil. This is also common. The most common of all (in my experience) is obscenely fast eyelet wear. We are talking major wiggle after 3 months of use. Totally unacceptable. I'm going to press some Fox DU bushings in and use Fox reducers. If your Romic has a problem, Romic is good about fixing it. That is nice and all, but I would rather have a shock which does not need servicing every 1-3 months in the first place. Why do you think I ride a Turner, anyway? Yup, dependability.

    tscheezy

    PS- I run medium-slow rebound and NO compression clicks for most conditions, and I may add a few clicks (up to 6) for long road climbs. That said, I rode my Spot 60 miles on the road (with knobbies no less!) a few days ago and didn't run any compression clicks. Full-fast baby. Why would someone log 60 road miles on a 32 pound full suspension bike with big knobbies? That's another post...
    So, for those of us using the Romics on our 5-Spots, what do you suggest we do or use instead? I too want a reliable shock, especially since I am a "point and shoot" kind of guy that gets freaked just changing cables.

  6. #6
    No, that's not phonetic
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirdir
    So, for those of us using the Romics on our 5-Spots, what do you suggest we do or use instead? I too want a reliable shock, especially since I am a "point and shoot" kind of guy that gets freaked just changing cables.
    I honestly don't have a suggestion at this point. I have run Vanilla RCs very successfully for a few years, but from a performance standpoint they fall a bit short when compared to more sophisicated shocks. I am going to try a Swinger 3-Way Air out next, but it may be close to a year before I have a good feel for how much I trust it. Some people have had good luck with their Romics. If yours is one of the good ones, you are set. I have been through 3 now in 5 months. Not a pretty record.

    tscheezy
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by bugaroo
    I've got Romic shocks on both my 5 Spot and Joker. To get the feel I like on each bike the shock set up is at opposite ends of the scale.
    Just curious what compression and rebound settings other 5 Spot riders are using. I'm thinking that the Joker Romic might need some maintenance. I could switch the shocks but I'm not sure if the Romic is custom valved for either bike.
    Thoughts?
    My thoughts are this:

    You are a nancy boy!

  8. #8
    No, that's not phonetic
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    Hey Pete, we're in SF for another week. Wanna do a ride? We are busy on Saturday but otherwise we are pretty flexible. We've just been roadying since we don't know much about the trails here. We would take suggestions on some fun trails if you are too busy to play guide as long as we don't have to drive too far to reach them (if they are in Marin we may even just pedal up). We're just south of GG Park in the Sunset District.

    Take it easy,
    tscheezy
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by tscheezy
    Hey Pete, we're in SF for another week. Wanna do a ride? We are busy on Saturday but otherwise we are pretty flexible. We've just been roadying since we don't know much about the trails here. We would take suggestions on some fun trails if you are too busy to play guide as long as we don't have to drive too far to reach them (if they are in Marin we may even just pedal up). We're just south of GG Park in the Sunset District.

    Take it easy,
    tscheezy
    How about Sunday???? Oh yeah, my family would disown me since it's Easter.

    I might be able to get out of a lunch deal on Friday and show you some good stuff if you can drive a bit up into the Calistoga area. About an hour fiftenn with no traffic and some of the best that the Bay Area has to offer, IMO.

    Otherwise, I can make some recommendations for rides that are closer in. Marin has some good MTB history, some great views if the fog is out but the riding is mostly fireroad, unless you have a guide, it's mid-week, and you're willing to poach.

  10. #10
    No, that's not phonetic
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete
    How about Sunday???? Oh yeah, my family would disown me since it's Easter.

    I might be able to get out of a lunch deal on Friday and show you some good stuff if you can drive a bit up into the Calistoga area. About an hour fiftenn with no traffic and some of the best that the Bay Area has to offer, IMO.
    Oh, yeah, Easter.

    Friday would work. We could zip up to Calistoga if you think it's worth the trek. I just looked at a map and hoo-doggie is that a ways up there (remember, there are only 100 miles of road on Kodiak Island). Where-abouts do you reside when you aren't in cellblock D? If you click on my handle you can get my email or PM me and let me know of a phone number where I can get a hold of you to work out the gory details.

    I bought Barny a nice little road bike and today we rode up to Sausalito, up Hwy 1, up the Panoramic Hwy, to the top of Mt. Tam, down to Stinson Beach, and back via Hwy 1 and the GG Bridge. Another 60 mile day with me on a 32# fully with knobbies chasing a girl on an 18# road racing machine. T'ain't fair. I gotta buy some slicks.

    tscheezy
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  11. #11
    LGB
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    Comprehensive reply! I think I'll stick with my OEM spring for now.

    Thanks man! LGB

  12. #12
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    Hi Tscheezy (or anyone else who knows), your advice here would be great.

    I'm probably about 175pounds with my gear and I have a medium 5 Spot with a romic and a 500 spring. The romic instructions say do not wind the pre-load up any more than three full turns, or you may damage the spring and/or shock.

    By three full turns I assume they mean from the point where the pre-load ring actually starts pressing up against and feeling resistance from the spring. Mine is on about three full turns now.

    I'm wondering if I need a 550 spring, as the bottom out bumper is at the top of the shaft. But on the other hand I am not a particularly heavy rider and my riding friends who have tried the bike seem to think my shock is quite stiff. For a lightish rider who sticks to aggressive xc, would a 550 be too much?

    Thanks for any ideas,

    mechanically dyslexic Duncan

  13. #13
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    Duncan:

    500 sounds about right for your weight. What type of trails/Gnar are you riding? Unless your doing some serious hucking or hammering with your spot, I wouldn't even consider a 550.

    I'm 178 without gear and I just went from a 550 down to a 500. I'm running more preload now(2 1/2 turns). And things feel so much more balanced for me. I don't get the rear end spikes as I did with the 550.

    For a while when I first got my Spot, I was running a 600. Now that was way too stiff. But, I noticed that I could still push that rubber bumper up all the way. I wouldn't get so hung up on that bumper. It's a good "ballpark" indicator sure, but don't use it as an end all tool. Go with "seat of the pants" feedback. Time in the saddle will tell you where you need to be.

    Ideally, if the spring rate is correct for the majority of your riding conditions, you should be bottoming lightly, occasionally. Key word - occasionally. If your spring rate is so stiff that you never bottom, either you need to experiment with a softer spring rate, or crank the throttle a little harder.

    Some have suggested having more than one spring rate available, if your riding venues warrant such a change.
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    What the EFF is "All MOUNTAIN"???

  14. #14
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    cheers

    Thanks for the advice. I thought going to 550 would be excessive. The terrain in your photo looks a lot like the riding we have here in Korea.

    Duncan

  15. #15
    eat my pantaloons
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    Where was that picture taken...Ringwood?


    Quote Originally Posted by Aquaholic
    Duncan:

    500 sounds about right for your weight. What type of trails/Gnar are you riding? Unless your doing some serious hucking or hammering with your spot, I wouldn't even consider a 550.

    I'm 178 without gear and I just went from a 550 down to a 500. I'm running more preload now(2 1/2 turns). And things feel so much more balanced for me. I don't get the rear end spikes as I did with the 550.

    For a while when I first got my Spot, I was running a 600. Now that was way too stiff. But, I noticed that I could still push that rubber bumper up all the way. I wouldn't get so hung up on that bumper. It's a good "ballpark" indicator sure, but don't use it as an end all tool. Go with "seat of the pants" feedback. Time in the saddle will tell you where you need to be.

    Ideally, if the spring rate is correct for the majority of your riding conditions, you should be bottoming lightly, occasionally. Key word - occasionally. If your spring rate is so stiff that you never bottom, either you need to experiment with a softer spring rate, or crank the throttle a little harder.

    Some have suggested having more than one spring rate available, if your riding venues warrant such a change.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by erol
    Where was that picture taken...Ringwood?
    [SIZE=7]
    Noble Canyon.[/SIZE]
    What the EFF is "All MOUNTAIN"???

  17. #17
    eat my pantaloons
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    I've never ridden there and I have off tomorrow. Want to ride?

    Erol


    Quote Originally Posted by Aquaholic
    [COLOR=Blue][
    Noble Canyon.COLOR]

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by erol
    I've never ridden there and I have off tomorrow. Want to ride?

    Erol

    Erol:

    Can't swing it this weekend. Email me and we can arrange a tour.

    autodata@coxdotnet
    What the EFF is "All MOUNTAIN"???

  19. #19
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    Go for it, it might fix the spikes

    I started with a 450 lbs (I am 145 pounds myself). The suspension of "Spotty" was pretty bad in the smoothnes over square edge department: not complaint at all either at slow or at high speeds (44x12 pedaling) even after about 400 miles of "breaking in the bushings". It was almost funny because with all the talk about the great climbing prorwness of Spotty you could definetely feel a kick-back at very low speeds when climbing over relatively large roots (20cm).
    I used 3/4 turn preload and 1 click for the 450 and you could feel a marked decrease in complaiance with more clicks.

    I switched to the 400 and I am now using 1+3/4 turns proload and 3 to 6 clicks. The suspension is better, nothing exceptional (you still feel the edges) but better.

    So it is cheap ($40) and I would reccomand trying it.
    Last edited by Davide; 04-09-2004 at 06:02 PM.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davide
    I started with a 450 lbs (I am 145 pounds myself). The suspension of "Spotty" was pretty bad in the smoothnes over square edge department: not complaint at all either at slow or at high speeds (44x12 pedaling) even after about 400 miles of "breaking in the bushings". It was almost funny because with all the talk about the great climbing prorwness of Spotty you could definetely feel a kick-back at very low speeds when climbing over relatively large roots (20cm).
    Maybe it's a rider weight thing? I've never felt pedal kickback. While it's not as plush as my Z1 it seems pretty compliant, IMO but you may have a different mindset of comparison.

    Question...what kind of trail does one pedal 44x12 on? My big ring is purely a bash guard. I don't use my granny much past the 2nd month of the new season.
    Faster is better, even when it's not.

  21. #21
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    Weight might be.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bikezilla
    Maybe it's a rider weight thing? I've never felt pedal kickback. While it's not as plush as my Z1 it seems pretty compliant, IMO but you may have a different mindset of comparison.

    Question...what kind of trail does one pedal 44x12 on? My big ring is purely a bash guard. I don't use my granny much past the 2nd month of the new season.
    it might be because I am light. The kickback really only happens at crowl pace over heavyly rooted terrain, it is not a big effect butI think it is there and it is less with the 400. I have a Z1 MCR in front and indeed the rear is not as plush as the front: It might be the price to pay for the ROMIC. I would like to try an old generation Vanilla coil, and a1999/2002 Fox float just to see how plush Spotty can get and how compromised is the ride quality by an air shock.

    44x12? you get many around SF, for example all the trails in the Headland have relatively long fireroads, up to a mile+ long with, I think, dont' have a map right now, 2-300 feet drop that make for some screaming "easy" downhills. Actually, I think my many years on a truely inefficient full-suspension are paying off: I can pedal Spotty/ROMIC uphill and standing in the big ring without any sizable bob ...

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davide
    ... I think my many years on a truely inefficient full-suspension are paying off: I can pedal Spotty/ROMIC uphill and standing in the big ring without any sizable bob ...
    LOL! I guess the bike has nothing to do with it eh? I'm starting to understand why you prefer the VPP, it seems to suit your needs.

    Cheers, Gears, and Beers!
    Last edited by Bikezilla; 04-10-2004 at 10:30 AM.
    Faster is better, even when it's not.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davide
    it might be because I am light. The kickback really only happens at crowl pace over heavyly rooted terrain, it is not a big effect butI think it is there and it is less with the 400. ...
    The effect you are experiencing is not pedal kickback. It's pedal stall. You even proved it without realizing it.

    Pedal kickback, as you know, is a response to the action of some suspensions. If you were truely experiencing pedal kickback, the problem would have gotten worse when you went to a lower rate spring. WIth a lower rate spring, the rear suspension would travel more at any given speed. The pedal kickback would be amplified.

    Pedal stall happens when you are going slow and hit an obstacle that doesn't move the suspension much.....and the bike slows down instantly, causing the pedals to stop, or slow down greatly. The feel is very similar to kickback.

    I think you made the right move by going to a lighter rate spring. In fact, a 350# might be just the ticket for you. If I remember correctly, your bike is set up for climbing...long stem. Your body position would put a larger percentage of your weight forward. A 350# spring would give you a plush ride....just add extra compression turns on the Romic.

    You don't have to worry about bottoming harshly as you don't do drops or jump. At least back off of the preload on the 400#.
    Last edited by WarrGuru; 04-10-2004 at 09:27 AM.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikezilla
    LOL! I guess the bike has nothing to do with it eh? I'm starting to understand why you prefer the VPP, it seems to suit your needs.

    Cheers, Gears, and Beers!
    I am not sure what you mean, I am saying that at my weight the Spotty is so efficient that I can pedal standing with no bob ... the Blur might be marginally more efficient while standing but I cannot tell the difference, the efficiency of Spotty was a real surprise.
    I was also surprised that Spotty is not as smooth as the Blur over stutter bumps although with the softer spring is getting closer. I honestly think that between VPP and Horst is a very close call. If there was a VPP 5"/5" with rim brakes not costing a fortune I would have probably got one. But there was not one and as a result I will be happy with Spotty for the next 10 years!

    Chears, Gears and vodka!
    Last edited by Davide; 04-10-2004 at 11:23 AM.

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