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  1. #1
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    RFX Tweener Anguish

    Sorry - a 'what size?' question

    At 5'10" I'm very happy on a large Czar with a 80mm stem. According to Turner's sizing chart, I should be on a large RFX. Although chat on the RFX thread suggests going for a smaller frame size might be the preferred option.

    I'll happily admit that most of the time I'll be overbiked. So with a trail-build emphasis: medium and flickable, or large and roomier? What are you other tweener guys and girls thinking? Any of the people who demo'd at Outerbike care to chime in?

    I'm in the UK and demo'ing both sizes is unlikely to be an option.

    And the worst of it? The UK importer has RFXs IN STOCK RIGHT NOW SO IT IS BURNING A HOLE IN MY BRAIN . Please Help-a-Homer.
    'I've got a bike, you can ride it if you like. It's got a basket, a bell that rings, and things to make it look good' - Syd B

  2. #2
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    Medium.
    I'm a little bit taller than you and have ridden medium Turners for years, recently (last few years) I have switched to large frames.
    I like the large for high speed rocky descending and stretched out climbing, but the medium feels better for all around riding.
    Now get on down there and grab one of those RFXs while you can!

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1soulrider View Post
    Medium.
    I'm a little bit taller than you and have ridden medium Turners for years, recently (last few years) I have switched to large frames.
    I like the large for high speed rocky descending and stretched out climbing, but the medium feels better for all around riding.
    Now get on down there and grab one of those RFXs while you can!

    w/ your experience w/ Turners, how 'bout listing the difference or exact WB specs. w/ the same fork on the 2 sizes?, since we all know you can't get that info from the co. website
    breezy shade

  4. #4
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    Thanks 1SR. My thinking is tending that way too, the more and more I look at the geo specs. The reach numbers between my current bike and medium RFX aren't a massive difference and going from 720mm bars (Czar) to wider bars on the RFX kind of reduces the issue anyway.

    Might be heading down my local Turner dealer tomorrow...Not only that, I have a new couch upon which to display the frame. That's fate, surely
    'I've got a bike, you can ride it if you like. It's got a basket, a bell that rings, and things to make it look good' - Syd B

  5. #5
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    Rider height alone is not a good measurement of fit. Compare what you currently have, know and like and translate that to what you want (including stem length).
    '15 Ibis HD3
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    '13 SC Juliana 650b'd (wife's)

  6. #6
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    Rider height alone is not a good measurement of fit. Compare what you currently have, know and like and translate that to what you want (including stem length).
    Agreed. But what I have now, know and like, is a rapid 29er xc bike...and I want something to do other types of riding with. I could put wide bars and a short stem (and a 120mm Pike) on the Czar, but I'm becoming a believer in having the right tool for the job. I spent a week last summer at a bikepark in the Alps, and realised there needed to be a bigger-travel bike in my life! Also, I'm not going to be racing so much next year, and just what to have mawr fun.
    'I've got a bike, you can ride it if you like. It's got a basket, a bell that rings, and things to make it look good' - Syd B

  7. #7
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    If you're going to keep your czar, I'd say get a large.
    STRAVA: Enabling dorks everywhere to get trails shut down........ all for the sake of a race on the internet.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by swan lee View Post
    Agreed. But what I have now, know and like, is a rapid 29er xc bike...and I want something to do other types of riding with. I could put wide bars and a short stem (and a 120mm Pike) on the Czar, but I'm becoming a believer in having the right tool for the job. I spent a week last summer at a bikepark in the Alps, and realised there needed to be a bigger-travel bike in my life! Also, I'm not going to be racing so much next year, and just what to have mawr fun.
    Glad you know what you're looking for, but that really doesn't directly correlate with proper bike fit

    Bike fit is mainly matching your torso length (hip to shoulder). Bar width tends to be personal preference blended with arm length/wingspan.

    The Competitive Cyclist bike fit calculator is a good tool:
    Bike Fit Calculator | Find Your Bike Size | Competitive Cyclist

    Using this tool 18 months ago confirmed what I was wondering... have I been riding the wrong size frame? I'm 5'10" and had always ridden Medium (17-18") frames. I had been noticing a stiff/sore lower back on longer rides.

    The CC bike fit calculator said I needed a 24.4-24.7" ETT! (I'm long in torso and arms, short inseam). Basically, I learned that I'm about 6'2" from the hip up.

    Now, both of my bikes are size Large (620-625mm/24.4-24.5" ETT) with 55-60mm stems. Back doesn't hurt anymore.

    This past weekend, I rode a buddy's Medium (and a big medium at that... 23.6" ETT) bike with a 60mm stem... and guess what, by mile 9, my lower back was getting stiff.
    '15 Ibis HD3
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  9. #9
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    Tell ya what, I'll compare the numbers for you:

    ETT Reach Stem Cockpit (ETT+stem) Total reach (Reach + stem)
    Czar 605 422 80 685 502
    RFX 620 439 60 680 499

    Now, if you run significantly wider bars on the RFX, you can also decrease the stem. Say you're running 720's on your Czar, I'd recommend 760-780 bars + 40-50mm stem on a size Large RFX
    '15 Ibis HD3
    '15 Surly Instigator 650b & 26+
    '13 SC Juliana 650b'd (wife's)

  10. #10
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    If you're going to keep your czar, I'd say get a large.
    Now you've got me confused Kidwoo! I thought you were generally advocating for shorter wheelbases??

    Yes, I'll be keeping the Czar for occasional racing and faster trail rides. It's a phenomenally good bike for it's purpose.
    'I've got a bike, you can ride it if you like. It's got a basket, a bell that rings, and things to make it look good' - Syd B

  11. #11
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    Surprisingly I agree with Kidd... When in doubt go up a size and down a stem length... been saying that for 20 years! This would put your reach closer to what the cool kids say you should be on and force your stem length to be in Style at every trail head world wide, even France! And Hokie points out this same idea, and based on his experience the bigger frame is the way to go at 5'10''.

    BUT, based on previous rants concerning sizing and who should ride what. My experience with the new RFX has been 100% of the time 'tweener riders are choosing the shorter reach version of the RFX, and keeping the shorter stems. The modern slack head angles and wider bar and mechanical trail created by 27.5 wheels as well as the centripetal forces of the bigger wheel makes a plenty stable bike and with more weight over the front wheel one can control it in the twisties instead of being dragged around by your nose.

    New thought, when ski width exploded from tooth picks to shapely logs underfoot everyone went down in length. As a small guy I used to ski 200-207s depending on construction, some of my taller friends were never under 207.. but now I have 174-181s. Of course the total bad asses that reside at every mountain and put 100 days a year in probably have a different view of proper length, but for Most people most of the time we are now on shorter skis. Maybe this is applicable to what I have been witnessing or maybe not...



    DT

  12. #12
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    Now, if you run significantly wider bars on the RFX, you can also decrease the stem. Say you're running 720's on your Czar, I'd recommend 760-780 bars + 40-50mm stem on a size Large RFX
    Thanks Hokie!!
    Czar is exactly that - 720 bars, and 80mm 11 degree neg rise stem.
    I have a 50mm stem and 780 bars already for a RFX build. So in terms of sitting on the bike, they'd probably even out i.e my back would be at similar relative angle. But although I'll be doing lots of climbing on the bigger bike, the emphasis will be on heading downhill with the biggest grin on my face.
    'I've got a bike, you can ride it if you like. It's got a basket, a bell that rings, and things to make it look good' - Syd B

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by swan lee View Post
    Now you've got me confused Kidwoo! I thought you were generally advocating for shorter wheelbases??

    Yes, I'll be keeping the Czar for occasional racing and faster trail rides. It's a phenomenally good bike for it's purpose.
    Is your goal a short wheel base or best fit?

    Again, check your measurements with the CC fit calculator and then post back up.

    At a minimum: inseam (riding or jeans?) & approximate arm/torso length?

    For example:

    I'm 5'10"
    But I wear 30" inseam jeans (32" riding inseam)
    I wear Medium-Tall (35" sleeve length) dress shirts. If I wear normal length Medium dress shirts, they don't stay tucked in (as I have a longer torso for my height)

    I find 24.4-24.5" ETT (and 17.3-17.5" reach) fits great with a 50-60mm stem
    '15 Ibis HD3
    '15 Surly Instigator 650b & 26+
    '13 SC Juliana 650b'd (wife's)

  14. #14
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    DT, thanks for your equivocal post ;-) It's the second scenario that has been making me think differently. Before the RFX thread blew up into a sizing debate last week, I'd been all in for ordering a large.

    Guys, I really appreciate all the input. I've not been able to type fast enough to respond to replies as they come in. Just shows what a fantastic resource this forum is. Cheers.
    'I've got a bike, you can ride it if you like. It's got a basket, a bell that rings, and things to make it look good' - Syd B

  15. #15
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    Again, check your measurements with the CC fit calculator and then post back up.
    CC fit calculator says VTT of 23.3-23.7, with a 70mm stem. That puts me on a medium RFX but with an 'unfashionable' stem length. I reckon I can live with that particular style faux pas, even when I go to France.

    'I've got a bike, you can ride it if you like. It's got a basket, a bell that rings, and things to make it look good' - Syd B

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by swan lee View Post
    CC fit calculator says VTT of 23.3-23.7, with a 70mm stem. That puts me on a medium RFX but with an 'unfashionable' stem length. I reckon I can live with that particular style faux pas, even when I go to France.

    Funny how two 5'10" riders can have completely different fits!

    (Or, show's how oddly proportioned that I am! lol)

    EDIT: BTW, the CC fit calculator says I need a 100mm stem. Yeah, right.
    '15 Ibis HD3
    '15 Surly Instigator 650b & 26+
    '13 SC Juliana 650b'd (wife's)

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes View Post
    Surprisingly I agree with Kidd...
    Aw, come on, that shouldn't be surprising, I've pretty much always agreed with your sizing recs. I just don't use stems longer than 50mm usually.

    Quote Originally Posted by swan lee View Post
    Now you've got me confused Kidwoo! I thought you were generally advocating for shorter wheelbases??
    Only in the context of bikes coming longer PLUS wider bars, PLUS slacker headangles (and yeah to a degree of the more sluggish handling of 27.5 wheels as the new 'standard'). It's mostly just a response to people like jazznova who obsess so hard over millimeters of butt to hand measurements that the effects of how a bike HANDLES (not 'fits') often gets ignored here.

    But that's why I asked if you were keeping the czar. If not and the RFX would be your only trail bike they yeah, I'd say go shorter so it stays functional and fun below 30mph. But you mentioned bike parks and if this is going to be your second 'bigger purpose' trail bike, then yeah get something that highlights the difference between the two......which to me would be big and stable when you want to scare yourself.
    STRAVA: Enabling dorks everywhere to get trails shut down........ all for the sake of a race on the internet.

  18. #18
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    RFX Tweener Anguish

    5'9" with 32 inseam and long arms - CC put me at 24.5in VTT and 42-76mm stem (gravity) OR 77-100mm (all-m).

    I like wide bars and short stems. Currently have 800bar/50stem on 5Spot and 750/50 on Flux, both medium frames. But - as I'm used to this size I would probably find a large RFX quite a change.
    Swan - Like Kid said, a large RFX would better compliment your large Czar imo.


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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidwoo View Post
    But that's why I asked if you were keeping the czar. If not and the RFX would be your only trail bike they yeah, I'd say go shorter so it stays functional and fun below 30mph.
    Same idea, but looking at it from the other end: I could have gone either L or XL on my Czar, but went L in no small part due to the fact that I knew I would have a longer travel bike as well, and wanted to keep the Czar snappy handling and more XC oriented. Looking forward to having a L RFX to go with it!
    ''It seems like a bit of a trend, everyone trying to make things longer over the last couple of years" Sam Hill

  20. #20
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    Personally, if the stand over of the large is acceptable I'd go with that. 70mmm stem on a med or 40-50m on a large to give a similar saddle-to-bar distance, my preference for a bike like this would certainly be for the shorter stem and better position for descending. I've gone from a L 5spot to a L Warden and haven't found the extra length to be as cumbersome on our tighter trails as the naysayers would have you believe. I wouldn't expect the extra inch of wheelbase between the M and L RFX to be a huge advantage/disadvantage either way, it's only about a 2.5% increase.

    But the best thing would be to ride them both, if possible! I'm purely speculating based on my personal preferences and limited experience with the recent shift from a 5-year-old bike to a new one that fully embraces the "modern" geometry thing...

  21. #21
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    This discussion should be more about what kind of trails and rider? Are you more willing to suffer the long bike when things get tighter and slower or suffer the short bike when it's straight and fast. If you can't ride that long bike smooth it's going to take more out of you.

  22. #22
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    This discussion should be more about what kind of trails and rider? Are you more willing to suffer the long bike when things get tighter and slower or suffer the short bike when it's straight and fast. If you can't ride that long bike smooth it's going to take more out of you.
    The majority of the riding in the southwest of the UK where I live tends toward tighter and slower. We simply don't have the elevation for long, straight, high-speed descents (well, maybe one or two!). If I were going to the Alps a lot I'd be getting the large, but sadly that's unlikely!

    I've previously found a large Sultan with 140mm Pike a bit barge-like on these local trails. The large Czar handles the tight stuff fine, but it has a fairly low front end so you can load it nicely through the turns. The medium RFX has a longer wheelbase than the large Czar, but then it's a different bike for a different style of riding, so the comparison doesn't really stack up...As DavidR suggests, the only real solution would be to try both .... I reckon I'd be lucky if there was a single demo bike yet in the entire UK though!
    'I've got a bike, you can ride it if you like. It's got a basket, a bell that rings, and things to make it look good' - Syd B

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by swan lee View Post
    The majority of the riding in the southwest of the UK where I live tends toward tighter and slower. We simply don't have the elevation for long, straight, high-speed descents (well, maybe one or two!). If I were going to the Alps a lot I'd be getting the large, but sadly that's unlikely!

    I've previously found a large Sultan with 140mm Pike a bit barge-like on these local trails. The large Czar handles the tight stuff fine, but it has a fairly low front end so you can load it nicely through the turns.

    """The medium RFX has a longer wheelbase than the large Czar, """/how do you know?

    but then it's a different bike for a different style of riding, so the comparison doesn't really stack up...As DavidR suggests, the only real solution would be to try both .... I reckon I'd be lucky if there was a single demo bike yet in the entire UK though!
    ???
    breezy shade

  24. #24
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    RFX Tweener Anguish

    Or what side on the Atlantic you are on??
    Most of the bikes being built in Europe have longer reach's compared to most US producers.

    Edit: dang-it. Swan Lee got his post out well before I could finish typing. ^^What he said^^

  25. #25
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    ???
    WB for RFX is now listed on Turner's site.

    Deano: east side - UK.
    'I've got a bike, you can ride it if you like. It's got a basket, a bell that rings, and things to make it look good' - Syd B

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