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  1. #1
    My cup runneth over
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    Raceface metal fatigue

    Hopefully the pictures will be viewable...

    On my ride this morning I noticed that pedaling seemed harder than usual and initially wrote it off as dawn-patrol blues. I eventually stopped and and saw that a piece of my crank spindle was missing and the granny ring was detached (sheared off?) and bent and making contact with the frame.

    These are less than a year and a half old and I am wondering if I should write it off as wear and tear or should expect RF to replace them for me. It seems very odd that this should be wear and tear and I haven't crashed in several months.

    Maybe Larry has some pull!

    Thoughts?
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  2. #2
    No, that's not phonetic
    Reputation: tscheezy's Avatar
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    Wow, that's pathetic. I would try to get RF to give you a new set. They probably only have a 1 year warranty, but those are an embarassment to RF. I mean it's not even the arm you would be pounding if you did a bunch of log slides with the outer chainring. Weaksauce.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  3. #3
    Feeding your addiction
    Reputation: Ventanarama's Avatar
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    Wow, that's bizarre, never seen that happen. Any idea if maybe the ring bolts had come loose and that caused it? I'll be in the shop tomorrow, if you need something to ride then come up and we'll get some cranks on there for you to use while we send those in to Race Face. Or I can send some down to you if you don't have time to make it up here, I have a used Atlas set that I can let you borrow.

    Larry
    Mountain High Cyclery
    "It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity". - Dave Barry

  4. #4
    My cup runneth over
    Reputation: rmac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ventanarama
    Wow, that's bizarre, never seen that happen. Any idea if maybe the ring bolts had come loose and that caused it? I'll be in the shop tomorrow, if you need something to ride then come up and we'll get some cranks on there for you to use while we send those in to Race Face. Or I can send some down to you if you don't have time to make it up here, I have a used Atlas set that I can let you borrow.

    Larry
    Mountain High Cyclery
    Thanks for the responses (Larry - aren't you off today?). One of the ring bolts looks like it has sheared off (couldn't capture that on camera) and the steel one looks like it may have come loose (must have happened very rapidly). I have been pretty consistent tightening them up since I lost a bolt last year and they have never needed a lot of attention. I wonder if I might have over-tightened them. I greatly appreciate the offer of the used Atlas set, I will stop by after lunch if that's OK.

    Thanks again.

    Richard.

  5. #5
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    Raceface says they have a lifetime warranty although I have heard that it takes a looooong time to get a new set. When mine developed a problem, my dealer gave me a new set and he took the cranks and dealt with the warranty.

    Hope it all works out.

  6. #6
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    Reputation: gonzostrike's Avatar
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    RF should hook you up, and Larry's a good man for the Atlas crank offer.

    FYI: in a crankset test in a recent Dirt magazine (UK), they observed that the Atlas's one weak point is that it doesn't have a bolt-on spider like the Diabolus. they said that they were worried about the Atlas for that reason. I don't know whether that was speculation or informed concern.

  7. #7
    The Ancient One
    Reputation: Steve from JH's Avatar
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    I had RF Deus cranks on my bike over the winter. A problem developed where the chain would try to jump off the middle ring to the granny when I was using any of the three largest cogs in the rear.

    I finally determined that the drive side crank was warped and was wobbling. I'm not sure what exactly is messed up, whether the spider or the spindle, but I'm going to send it in.
    "Don't criticize what you can't understand."

  8. #8
    Elitest thrill junkie
    Reputation: Jayem's Avatar
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    My buddy got a whole bunch of RF components a little while back.

    IMO, their quality/design has gone down the crapper.

    They make stuff that looks cool now, but the plastic preload spacers, crappy headsets, and other marginal features make them nothing more than "good looking products" IMO. I've seen the problems firsthand, and I don't have any inclination to buy any RF stuff any time soon. I think the days of "designed and tested on the northshore" or whatever are gone.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  9. #9
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    one thing's for sure, Jayem: if you aren't a patient and precise bike wrench, the X-type installations can be a real fast way to frustration. the directions aren't too clear, and it's not that intuitive. and the plastic spacer selection isn't obvious. there's also that seal that comes in 2 thicknesses that is another point of adjustment (or frustration if you're impatient or underskilled). definitely not as easy as installing an ISIS setup.

    on the other hand, the Diabolus is the stiffest-arse crankset I've ever pedaled. that includes comparing BMX 3-pc cromo good quality cranksets too.

    what is the install like on the Shimano X-types? how do they adjust chainline?

  10. #10
    Elitest thrill junkie
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    Quote Originally Posted by gonzostrike
    one thing's for sure, Jayem: if you aren't a patient and precise bike wrench, the X-type installations can be a real fast way to frustration. the directions aren't too clear, and it's not that intuitive. and the plastic spacer selection isn't obvious. there's also that seal that comes in 2 thicknesses that is another point of adjustment (or frustration if you're impatient or underskilled). definitely not as easy as installing an ISIS setup.

    on the other hand, the Diabolus is the stiffest-arse crankset I've ever pedaled. that includes comparing BMX 3-pc cromo good quality cranksets too.

    what is the install like on the Shimano X-types? how do they adjust chainline?
    Aluminum spacers that don't deform with installation, used to space the BB just like with a normal square, octalink, or isis BB. In fact, you can just go buy any old BB spacer if you want with em.

    Not only that, but when I want to remove the cranks, it's super easy. The RF system still relies on a "taper" setup, so it's "pressed" against the axle. The shimano uses a splined setup where the crankarm actually clamps to the axle. There's a plastic preload-nut that kind works like the nut in your headset, to preload the bearings, and then just two small bolts (high grade though) that clamp the crankarm to the axle.

    I've worked on the RF X-type, and I think it requires a little more effort to get on and off.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  11. #11
    83 feet less per minute
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    Not trying to argue, just my experience has been very good with the RF Deus. I can and have removed it to work on the bike in about 10 seconds. Very easy to remove and install. I also have used the aluminum spacers on the BB to replace the plastic ones on occason. My only problem has been a couple of cracked chainring bolts. (Probably torqued to high by me).
    Want to ride in this life and the next? Ask me how.

  12. #12
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    Paddlefoot - my RF experiences all have been and are 1st rate. but I know a few people and have read about MANY others who simply could not figure out the X-Type install. I had some probs myself on the Diabolus install on my big bike, but worked them out after one ride and a reassembly.

    RF will stand behind their stuff too. rmac will get replacements. and Larry'll hook him up meanwhile.

  13. #13
    The Ancient One
    Reputation: Steve from JH's Avatar
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    I'm sure mine was installed fine. It worked well for most of a year. It seems to be a fatigue problem.
    "Don't criticize what you can't understand."

  14. #14
    My cup runneth over
    Reputation: rmac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve from JH
    It seems to be a fatigue problem.


    Quote Originally Posted by gonzostrike
    ...and Larry'll hook him up meanwhile.
    Indeed...
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  15. #15
    outclassed by his bike
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    It's not the users

    This thread confirms again that this product is not up to par. I've read the posts from the RF fans and the elite mechanics about how all the problems are attributable to user error. If you have a product that works great for 40% of users and the other 60% can't get it to work for them, is that a reflection on the users or on the product? Any business person will tell you the answer.

    My Deus crankset has been installed three times by three different people, including once by a good, trusted LBS experienced with the model. None of the installations has produced a truly satisfactory ease of rotation compared with competitors' cranks. (And yes, the BB has been faced.) Meanwhile I've gone through THREE sets of bearings in less than two years (and I only ride seven months a year). One of these was replaced under warranty through the LBS, only after I called RF and was not treated well by their tech support guy. The latest set of bearings is so stiff it feels like they packed the races with wood filler. This particularly irks me in light of all the hype in their marketing stuff about the quality of the bearing seals. I've tried really hard to like this product but I can't because it just is not very well designed or manufactured.

  16. #16
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    Couldn't resist I'm on my third set of Race Face Deus Cranks. First set went south from poor instalation. Second set went south because of a manufacturing defect and poor design; I'd try to tighten them up and the'd bind and be too hard to pedal. Actually the first set did that too. The third set seems to pedal better-they spin more freely. However, they've been coming loose ever since I got them put on my bike. I checked them Sunday morning before a ride and they were so loose it took 6 full turns to snug them up. And the chain was jumping off the wheels. I"M DONE, FINITO La Musica; end of story. Race Face is going bye bye. Yeah, I got the poor customer service when I called too-they suck !
    turtle

  17. #17
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    Turtle 1

    Your problems sound just like mine. If I tighten up the crank properly they seem too bind and be too tight to turn - I know the extra resistance would be good training but that is taking it a little too far!!

    I've also had three sets of bearings now - one on my Cove have already been binned, the other seized after a wet ride, yet I managed too free it eventually and the one on my Flux is showing similar characteristics. It's not looking good for them in the future!

    Mfezi

  18. #18
    My cup runneth over
    Reputation: rmac's Avatar
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    I have been very pleasantly surprised with the Atlas crank (Larry's loaner ). I consider myself a rider fairly insensitive to ride characteristic changes but dang, I feel like my power delivery (stiffer cranks?) is significantly greater with the Atlas over the Deus. Any one else have the same experience? Not sure if the crank lengths between the two are the same though.

    I also looked through the reviews on the Atlas and although few, they are mostly positive.

  19. #19
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    Reputation: CDtofer's Avatar
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    I havent had mine long enough to see any fatigue issues but I would be curious to see weights/riding styles of those who have had them fail. Not to say it was the fault of anyone that had them come apart (and especially the BAD CS) but I just seem to have this feeling that the Deus cranks are a WW product. (weight weenie) I have never broken anything on a bike (apart from crashing) but I am a spinner and ride pretty light for my 170 lbs. I imagine though that to get these puppies to their target weight, RF might have shaved a bit too much material. Just speculation on my part and maybe time will prove me wrong but I bet I wont have any problems considering how I ride. Still I feel like maybe they need to be babied a little.

    Again not trying to tell those with issues that they focked up somehow, especially Turtle going through three sets (pretty pathetic on RF's part) I just think this thread should be a warning that if you are a bigger rider or go even semi-big (read wheels leave the ground) than I would personally pass on the Deus stuff.

    After Rmac posted he noticed a big difference with the Atlas, it just made me think of this again. I remember thinking a while back there would be some grief coming from all the guys on Spots with Deus cranks. IMHO better to go with something a little beefier.

  20. #20
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    Idea!

    I think the weight factor is something to consider-especially after reading the print on the
    X-type bottom bracket yesterday when we took the cranks off; it said xc type riding only. I had similar thoughts after hearing good things about the Atlas cranks; I'm going to ask the shop if they can get RF to upgrade or replace my Deus with Atlas; more to follow.
    turtle

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDtofer
    I havent had mine long enough to see any fatigue issues but I would be curious to see weights/riding styles of those who have had them fail. Not to say it was the fault of anyone that had them come apart (and especially the BAD CS) but I just seem to have this feeling that the Deus cranks are a WW product. (weight weenie) I have never broken anything on a bike (apart from crashing) but I am a spinner and ride pretty light for my 170 lbs. I imagine though that to get these puppies to their target weight, RF might have shaved a bit too much material. Just speculation on my part and maybe time will prove me wrong but I bet I wont have any problems considering how I ride. Still I feel like maybe they need to be babied a little.

    Again not trying to tell those with issues that they focked up somehow, especially Turtle going through three sets (pretty pathetic on RF's part) I just think this thread should be a warning that if you are a bigger rider or go even semi-big (read wheels leave the ground) than I would personally pass on the Deus stuff.

    After Rmac posted he noticed a big difference with the Atlas, it just made me think of this again. I remember thinking a while back there would be some grief coming from all the guys on Spots with Deus cranks. IMHO better to go with something a little beefier.
    CDtofer has it sussed. If you read the info that RF put out on the new x-type crankset/BB stuff, they said that the Atlas basically is the old Turbine LP with a bit more strategic strengthening of the design, while the Deus is a lighter Turbine LP for XC racing purposes.

    I weigh only 155 lbs and I notice a big difference going from a flexy XC race crank that is stiff when kept perpendicular to the BB at all times (not doing any drops, hard cornering in chop, or other lateral stresses), to a mid-line crankset that is designed to handle things besides XC racing.

    let's face it, folks, XC racing gear is suitable for dirt sidewalks, not technical rough trails.

    the only people who seem able to use lightweight pinner XC race gear on techie trails are those who are highly skilled and float over the terrain (as I have seen some pro riders do), or those who walk the terrain, or those who poke-and-coast at slow slow speeds.

    this isn't any great revelation. ask any super-rocky terrain rider how much he/she likes paper-thin sidewalled XC tires. some will do all right with them, I have 2 friends who manage very well on XC casings even while motoring at a good clip. but the great majority of riders don't have the skill to keep the paper sidewall intact.

    it just makes good sense to have a bike built with parts that will hold up where you usually ride.

    but there seems no end to the supply of underbuilt bikes for photo purposes!

  22. #22
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    Sucks

    Bummer to hear about all this RF grief. Didnt know that the Atlas was a beefed up Turbine. I bent a set of Turbines 3 yrs ago and have been on the same replacement Northshores ever since. Have thought alot about replacing them with the new outboard thing but from the ride reports, I'll just keep thowing a new Isis bb in when necessary. The Shores have never failed me and probably never will.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by artsn
    The Shores have never failed me and probably never will.
    I don't know of anyone who's bent or broken a Shore through riding. by bad mechanic work, or by accident that wasn't a riding thing, yes. but not by riding. the Shore cranks are burl personified.

  24. #24
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    Weight?

    I wonder how much shores weigh, just out of curiosity. Mine are so beatup and ugly, I am considering picking up a new set on ebay.

  25. #25
    My cup runneth over
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    Quote Originally Posted by gonzostrike
    but there seems no end to the supply of underbuilt bikes for photo purposes!
    You just can't help yourself, can you... (although that was a fairly mild TFslap! ).

    Oddly enough I am using these on a Burner, am unskilled but weight 185 - 195 and ride through as many rocks as possible (but very little flight time). Where I noticed the biggest difference was in climbing (confirmed again last night) when I am going up very steep stuff and applying max power.

    Might have to ask Larry to see if he can get an Atlas replacement for the Deus (my Burner already weighs almost 31 lbs. )

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