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  1. #1
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    Questions for the 5Pack gurus

    Hi guys,

    Need some advice from the 5Pack masters.

    I got a lucky deal on a used HL SixPack frame with a DHXAir, and snapped it up. Also, I was able to purchase a complete 5Spot rear triangle (Horst, pre-07), along with a set of Spot 5.1 rockers and a set of Spot 5.5 07 rockers too. To add to that, I also have a 7.5" i2i hi volume RP23, and a 160mm Fox Vanilla 36.

    I guess you can pretty much guess where all this is going - > 5Pack! <, I just don't know really which combination works best. I've read and reread all the 5Pack threads but ended up more befuddled.

    The Homer forum has been a big help to me in the past (I'm the joker who almost put a 7.875 shock on his Spot but was told not to) so rather than trying every chainstay/seatstay and rocker/shock combo possible, I thought I'd ask the jedi masters on the board what they recommend.

    I'm leaning toward 6Pack front triangle, complete HL pre- 07 5Spot rear triangle, Spot 5.5 07 rockers and RP23 shock. I'm just worried about the HA on that when I slap on the Fox Van 36 160mm fork. Will it be too choppered out?

    Intended use will be on the usual mountain trails with lots of climbs, singletrack with roots and rocks, and minimal air, two-foot drops max. (hey I know you Homers could hammer that on a Burner, but I need my crutch, ok? ) I'm 170 pounds rolling, standing 5'8".

    So guys, what combo of stays, rears, rockers, shocks and so forth do you recommend I use in building my 5Pack with the Fox Van 36 fork?

  2. #2
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    Please define 'best' and 'too choppered out'.....


    Without knowing what you ride (head angle, bb height, fork length, etc, etc) and what you like adn dont like about your current ride, anybodies advice is only their personal preference, not what would be best for you.

    FYI I ride an 06 pack front, all spot rear and a 7.5 X 2 shock with a Lyric...but I am a Dher with a BMX background. I do my gruntwork on the road, mtb is for fun.

  3. #3
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    Hi Davep,

    Best means best for trail riding with lots of climbs, singletrack with roots and rocks, and minimal air with max two foot drops!

    'Choppered out' means 'will the use of my Fox Van 36 160mm fork slacken out the head angles too much (beyond 67 degrees) making extended climbing difficult?' Which begs the question, which combo of stays, rears, and rockers would work well with the Van 36 for the abovementioned intended use?

    You've got Lyric on, which rockers are you running? I've a choice of either the 5.1s or the 5.5s and I'm leaning towards the 5.5s with the hope that they'll mitigate the slackness caused by the length of the fork, allowing me to climb some. I'd like to run that theory past the real gurus on the board though, they've 'been there, done that' and can pretty much tell what'll work and what won't.

    Also, what's it like climbing your Lyric at full extension? Any ideas on your HA?

    Thanks much.

  4. #4
    trail fairy
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    Others will know better than me but with pre 07 stays on a pack front with that i2i and 160mm fork I think ya would end up with a 67HA which would be perfect for the pack, I think there's a few from mem running that combo!

    ya got options to improve geo with ya 5.1 and 5.5 rockers so I'd say go for t and play around work out whats feels best for ya
    Just riding a muddy trail. . ..

    MAXXIS 4C!
    Helmet for your neck

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  5. #5
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    Did you find nybike1971's thread on geometry changes for the various combinations? If you know what HA is acceptable to you and which isn't, his measurements are a great place to start (especially since he also measured for a 160mm fork)
    06 RFX/5 pack leverage curves and geometry measurements

  6. #6
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    Thanks for all the responses guys, my head's spinning from reading and re-reading all the 5pack threads.

    Somewhere after reading posts by SSinga and AK Chris for the nth time, I seem to have lost the ability to think and now just want to paint my frame orange and my fork lowers white, and sharpie the stanchions black. Must also resist the temptation to rush out and buy a red couch.

    Gotta get some rest now and hope I don't see the figures HA, BB, SA running around inside my head.

  7. #7
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    I have both 5.3 inch spot rockers and 6.2 inch pack rockers and they do not effect the geo at all..it is the same with either rocker. The stays (specifically the seat stay) make the geo changes.

    The spot rear is a bit shorter in all aspects than the pack parts. The chainstay is a bit shorter (3/8 in ?) and the shorter seat stays drop the bb and slacken the head angle by about a degree.

    IIRC my head angle is just under 67 and bb is just a hair over 14"..but I have not measured that stuff in a while and things vary with fork length, tire size, etc.

  8. #8
    trail fairy
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    Quote Originally Posted by davep
    I have both 5.3 inch spot rockers and 6.2 inch pack rockers and they do not effect the geo at all..it is the same with either rocker. The stays (specifically the seat stay) make the geo changes.

    The spot rear is a bit shorter in all aspects than the pack parts. The chainstay is a bit shorter (3/8 in ?) and the shorter seat stays drop the bb and slacken the head angle by about a degree.

    IIRC my head angle is just under 67 and bb is just a hair over 14"..but I have not measured that stuff in a while and things vary with fork length, tire size, etc.
    So DP what ya saying is ya could theoretically replace the seat stays on an RFX pre 07, with Spot seatstays and slacken the HA by a degree?

    If so I like that thinking, now can we get pre 07 seat stays from DT
    Just riding a muddy trail. . ..

    MAXXIS 4C!
    Helmet for your neck

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  9. #9
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    Before the bike gets built, here's what my armchair engineering / keyboard research came up with. Please feel free to hold a gun to my head if I've gotten anything wrong - sure don't want to mess up my bike.

    Mission - Build trail barcalounger / obstacle eraser for general trail riding without any big drops. Must use Fox 36 Van 160mm (need my crutch! ) but must still climb. Front Pack triangle, choice of Pack or Spot rear, or combination thereof. Choice of Spot 5.1, Spot 5.5 or Pack 6 rockers. Choice of DHXA or RP23.

    Q: General concept - will it work?

    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes
    The 'old' RFX had an almost straight rate, many like it for the super plush mid stroke, others do not. It has not been in production for over a year and a half.
    DT
    A: Just what I need! The Van 36 seemed like too much fork for the Spot, and is better suited to a Pack front. The fact that the Pack's travel is linear works well for me, should be super plush eating up all bumps, with no danger of bottoming out as I can't huck to save my life.


    Q: Pack or Spot rear?

    Quote Originally Posted by nybike1971
    After buying a dedicated DH bike last Fall, I decided to turn the RFX into more of a trail bike and move from coil to air suspension. I replaced the 06 Z1 Light with a 36 Talas RC2 and the DHX coil with an RP23. Next step was to pick the rear triangle and rockers to adapt to the air shock. So I decided to take some measurements, map out the linkages and see how much the leverage curves differed from one another. The measurements are not comprehensive but are indicative of the effects of the different rockers and different rear triangles. Here are the results:

    Rear triangle: 06 5 Spot
    Rockers: Spot 5.3in
    Chainstay: 17in (shock @ 7.5in i2i)
    Wheelbase: 43.5in
    Bottom bracket @ 160mm: 14.1in (shock @ 7.5in i2i)
    Head-tube angle @ 160mm: ~68 degrees (shock @ 7.5in i2i)
    Total travel: 133mm (w/ 7.5in x 2in shock)
    A: Now these numbers look yummy! The shorter wheelbase should work well in twisty singletrack, and it looks like it'll still climb as long as I have the lungs and legs.


    Q: Which rockers to use, 5.1, 5.5 or 6?

    Quote Originally Posted by davep
    I have both 5.3 inch spot rockers and 6.2 inch pack rockers and they do not effect the geo at all..it is the same with either rocker. The stays (specifically the seat stay) make the geo changes.
    Since the rockers don't affect geometry, and quality of travel means more to me than quantity, I'll start with the 5.5s to give me a leverage ratio of around 2.8 (extrapolating from nybike1971's graph) - quite like the new RFXs. There should be no need to pack too much air into the can but should have leverage enough to overcome stiction on the RP23. Hopefully this combo will work well under my 170lbs rolling weight.

    Well, that sums up my research. Now to paint the frame and build up the bike - Pack front, Spot rear, Spot 5.5 rocker, RP23 shock, Van 36 fork

    Thanks all!
    Last edited by gargoyle; 05-11-2008 at 07:46 PM.

  10. #10
    trail fairy
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    Quote Originally Posted by gargoyle
    Before the bike gets built, here's what my armchair engineering / keyboard research came up with. Please feel free to hold a gun to my head if I've gotten anything wrong - sure don't want to mess up my bike.
    Gun to head as requested, now whos gonna pull the trigger


    Mission - Build trail barcalounger / obstacle eraser for general trail riding without any big drops. Must use Fox 36 Van 160mm (need my crutch! ) but must still climb. Front Pack triangle, choice of Pack or Spot rear, or combination thereof. Choice of Spot 5.1, Spot 5.5 or Pack 6 rockers. Choice of DHXA or RP23.

    Q: General concept - will it work?
    Like the use of the Van 36 now here's a mans man van is not a crutch no adjust features
    The Pack RFX climbs its all about technique, just ride..

    A: Just what I need! The Van 36 seemed like too much fork for the Spot, and is better suited to a Pack front. The fact that the Pack's travel is linear works well for me, should be super plush eating up all bumps, with no danger of bottoming out as I can't huck to save my life.

    Q: Pack or Spot rear?
    Definitley too much fork for a Spot, why does no one listen to DT or TA [me] its clearly in the manual

    A: Now these numbers look yummy! The shorter wheelbase should work well in twisty singletrack, and it looks like it'll still climb as long as I have the lungs and legs.

    Rear triangle: 06 5 Spot
    Rockers: Spot 5.3in
    Chainstay: 17in (shock @ 7.5in i2i)
    Wheelbase: 43.5in
    Bottom bracket @ 160mm: 14.1in (shock @ 7.5in i2i)
    Head-tube angle @ 160mm: ~68 degrees (shock @ 7.5in i2i) I like looks o 67 deg myself spot stays will acheive this?
    Total travel: 133mm (w/ 7.5in x 2in shock)

    Q: Which rockers to use, 5.1, 5.5 or 6?
    All 3 have fun, seriously why not use the Rocky anology choose the ne in the middle

    Since the rockers don't affect geometry, and quality of travel means more to me than quantity, I'll start with the 5.5s to give me a leverage ratio of around 2.8 (extrapolating from nybike1971's graph) - quite like the new RFXs. There should be no need to pack too much air into the can but should have leverage enough to overcome stiction on the RP23. Hopefully this combo will work well under my 170lbs rolling weight.

    Well, that sums up my research. Now to paint the frame and build up the bike - Pack front, Spot rear, Spot 5.5 rocker, RP23 shock, Van 36 fork
    Get a coil rear, would be my only other sugestion and then push that RP23 for your ride style


    Thanks all!
    Ya welcome anytime, BANG..trigga pulled..

    Churrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr ta.
    Now feel free to disregard my ranting's my brains are scrambled
    Just riding a muddy trail. . ..

    MAXXIS 4C!
    Helmet for your neck

    Leatt FAQs


  11. #11
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    I think you are on the right track. Experiment with the setups and find what works best for you.

    From what you are saying, I would suggest starting with the Spot rear triangle and 5.5in rockers. I have been riding that combination lately with both an air and coil shock and it rocks. One word of caution, when riding rolling technical singletrack without extended downhills, I find that I lower my Talas down to 130mm a lot. The Vanilla might give a headtube angle that may be a little slack if you are going to climb on the bike a lot.

    In general, as davep mentioned, rockers have minimal effect on geometry. Longer chainstays will slacken the bike out, shorter seatstays will slacken the bike out.

    You may want to look at this recent thread for more 5-pack info:

    5.5 spot rockers on my 06 RFX ???

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