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  1. #1
    Living the Dream
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    Question for Czar owners coming from a Sultan

    Does the Czar with a 120 fork descend as confidently as a Sultan with a 120 or 140 fork? I am getting close to pulling the trigger on a Czar and I am just wondering about it's capability as my main trail bike. I have family in Norcal and my Wife is from Tucson, so annual trips/trails include: Tahoe , Downieville, Milagrosa, South Mountain, and Sedona. Thanks for any feedback.
    "And I shout that your all fakes and you should have seen the look on your face"

  2. #2
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    Different animals completely. I have ridden them back to back and they are apples and oranges. The Sultan devours rocks, the whole thing is heavier which means stability in places like SEdona and South Mountain and Butcher Ranch!!!, No Freakin Comparison. I LOVE the Czar, it flys over the earth, but it is NO Sultan. Was not intended to be and putting a longer fork on the Czar will not bandage it 'up' to the rock eating capacity of the Sultan. For most of the mileage in Tahoe, the Czar will tear the Sultan apart though. Big vertical, not so rough trails, big vertical, trails that flow and roll thru the woods and over huge boulders are where the Czar absolutely rips. Toads for the 250 yards thru the steep rough section, the Sultan will disappear. But the Czar will have put so much time on the climb from any direction (Luther, Big Meadow or Star Lake) that the Sultans speed in the rough will be played for the squirrels.

    Question you have to ask yourself, and answer honestly. How 'do' I ride? Pick the bike for YOUR style and the rest of our opinions be dammed.
    If you are a high paced XC rider/racer, then the Czar is almost peerless, look at the reviews of riders coming from almost every other brand in the 100mm catagory. It rocks. If you are more interested in rough trails and getting to them on smoother, climby roads and trails is just an un-welcome fact, ie, Toads, Butcher Ranch, Mormon, National, Javalina etc, then the Sultan is your ride.

    DT

  3. #3
    Supersonic Garfield
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    Poetry!

  4. #4
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    What he said ^^^, plus these observations, having frequently having ridden both on back to back days:

    In the chunk, the Sultan is SO much smoother. You just cannot discount the bigger fork and rear suspension. 20 or 25 mm doesn't sound like "that much" on paper, but it really matters, especially at the end of a long day, or long, multi-day trip.

    But with all due respect to DT (since I actually, ahem, regularly ride a Czar with a 120 fork) I think the Czar CAN be stretched upwards a bit from its intended application, to within a stone's throw of the Sultan (see LeeL's photos in BC). A 120 fork, removal of the rear shock's volume reducer, and a set of big squishy tires really expands the bike's ability to handle chunk, especially if you are not too big, and don't find the 32 mm fork noodly (which at 195, it most definitely IS for me).

    The only other thing I have to add to DT's observations is that if I could only have one bike, and I didn't ride chunk almost exclusively, I would choose the Czar, not the Sultan.

    And I would be very, very happy!
    The drive towards achievement and success is the motive power of civilization.

  5. #5
    Living the Dream
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    Thanks for the replies and feedback. I really want to get a Czar as I have been on Turners for 10 years, but I may be leaning towards a ripley due its ability to run a pike for chunck days and a 120 sid for endurance races.
    "And I shout that your all fakes and you should have seen the look on your face"

  6. #6
    North Van/Whistler
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    Quote Originally Posted by kosmo View Post
    But with all due respect to DT (since I actually, ahem, regularly ride a Czar with a 120 fork) I think the Czar CAN be stretched upwards a bit from its intended application, to within a stone's throw of the Sultan (see LeeL's photos in BC). A 120 fork, removal of the rear shock's volume reducer, and a set of big squishy tires really expands the bike's ability to handle chunk, especially if you are not too big, and don't find the 32 mm fork noodly (which at 195, it most definitely IS for me).
    The Czar is awesome but riding it aggro on Javelina, South Mountain with the rocks and chunk would probably be hard on the poor bike. Ditto the Downieville Divides and Milagrosa descents. I'd do it but it won't be my first choice for bikes there if only because I'd have to slow down on the descents more than I'd like. For tech descents where speed is somewhat necessarily controlled the Czar is awesome; there I'm thinking Sedona chunky slow tech downhills like say the tech parts of Highline or the Hogs. For speed descents - the Czar would be a bit lacking. JMO
    Locals' Guide to North Shore Rides http://mtbtrails.ca/

  7. #7
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    Lee makes a good point above. The combination of rocky chunk AND high speed would be the Achille's Heel of a "stretched" Czar.

    From what I've heard of the Ripley, it is a good bike that needs a bit of tweaking on the pivots (see various threads on the Ibis forum).

    Shouting Alert:

    OBVIOUSLY, DT'S NEXT CARBON BIKE SHOULD BE A 140 MM SULTAN. VOTE NOW! VOTE OFTEN!
    The drive towards achievement and success is the motive power of civilization.

  8. #8
    Elitest thrill junkie
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    Quote Originally Posted by kosmo View Post
    OBVIOUSLY, DT'S NEXT CARBON BIKE SHOULD BE A 140 MM SULTAN. VOTE NOW! VOTE OFTEN!
    It should have been a long time ago, except 150-160mm rear travel.

    Now that we have 1x11, such things are possible.

    Question for Czar owners coming from a Sultan-sultanx.jpg

    These days there's:
    -the new Niner WFO
    -Specialized Enduro
    -BMC Trailfox
    -new Lenz something-oth with 16.75" stays
    -Banshee Prime (kind of old generation, compared to these others, but ok geometry and travel).

    This would have been a cool genre to capture, and I think it will get bigger, although it will likely remain a "niche", it's one of the types of niches I think could be exploited by turner. A great pedaling bike in this genre would sell great and modern frame manipulation has gotten weights down well below 30lbs, so there's not much reason not to IMO.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  9. #9
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    I'm all for the Sultan going carbon, but for me, keep the travel around 120mm. I'm after a bike that bridges the gap between the 100mm XC and the 140+ category.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikesinmud View Post
    I'm all for the Sultan going carbon, but for me, keep the travel around 120mm. I'm after a bike that bridges the gap between the 100mm XC and the 140+ category.
    A world with 100, 120 and 140 mm Carbon Turners would just be too damn perfect.
    The drive towards achievement and success is the motive power of civilization.

  11. #11
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    czar is for non-technical.
    Nice KOM, sorry about your penis.

  12. #12
    North Van/Whistler
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrwhlr View Post
    czar is for non-technical.
    Disagree
    Locals' Guide to North Shore Rides http://mtbtrails.ca/

  13. #13
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    i concur after riding one at bootleg....
    "Live dangerously and you live right."
    Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

  14. #14
    Daniel the Dog
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    I am old school but I would miss alloy Turner's. They are just so sweet!

  15. #15
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    Concur for against a Czar being a non-technical option?
    Quote Originally Posted by kreater View Post
    i concur after riding one at bootleg....

  16. #16
    Living the Dream
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    Thanks all. I think I am going to get the Orange Czar with XX1 for Christmas. It will be perfect for most of the Virginia and Wes Virginia Trails I ride. It will also handle the annual trips to AZ and Cali. If I end up needing/wanting more, I may supplement with SB95C or BMC Trail Fox in a year or two.
    "And I shout that your all fakes and you should have seen the look on your face"

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpenglow View Post
    Thanks all. I think I am going to get the Orange Czar with XX1 for Christmas. It will be perfect for most of the Virginia and Wes Virginia Trails I ride. It will also handle the annual trips to AZ and Cali. If I end up needing/wanting more, I may supplement with SB95C or BMC Trail Fox in a year or two.
    I'll be fine, for CA, but Turner should void your warranty for turning a wheel in AZ on that bike.
    Nice KOM, sorry about your penis.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by westin View Post
    Concur for against a Czar being a non-technical option?


    concur for the Czar being a champ in the technical stuff, again what i rode a Bootleg the Czar handled with great ease.
    "Live dangerously and you live right."
    Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

  19. #19
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    Do you have a line on a local or mailorder Orange Czar? Rumor has it the next batch of Czars landing in a week or two is the last until next year.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alpenglow View Post
    Thanks all. I think I am going to get the Orange Czar with XX1 for Christmas. It will be perfect for most of the Virginia and Wes Virginia Trails I ride. It will also handle the annual trips to AZ and Cali. If I end up needing/wanting more, I may supplement with SB95C or BMC Trail Fox in a year or two.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrwhlr View Post
    I'll be fine, for CA, but Turner should void your warranty for turning a wheel in AZ on that bike.
    I don't think that would be necessary- everyone knows you can't ride in AZ with a sub 14.5" bottom bracket.
    A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have.

  21. #21
    Living the Dream
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    Quote Originally Posted by westin View Post
    Do you have a line on a local or mailorder Orange Czar? Rumor has it the next batch of Czars landing in a week or two is the last until next year.
    No. I had no idea of the availability. I don't care about color that much. I have a black carbon highball and a raw sultan and was looking to add a little color to my next bike.
    "And I shout that your all fakes and you should have seen the look on your face"

  22. #22
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    More Czar on the way. We are flying a small batch in to take care of back orders and direct sales, the rest on on the water... We will be getting Czars thru the winter, but the batches will get further between.

    We have sold so many more bikes OUTSIDE of California than here and yet have heard nothing of shortcomings in the technical riding and cranks hitting rocks. It seems that maybe,,, those that are buying them know how they ride and what they want and don't expect the Czar to be a Monti or an RFX etc with 29" wheels. Weird huh?

    DT

  23. #23
    mtbr member
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes View Post
    We have sold so many more bikes OUTSIDE of California than here and yet have heard nothing of shortcomings in the technical riding and cranks hitting rocks.
    I think Mrtroll is the only one disparaging the Czar's technical ability here. He also seems to think that an ultra high bb is necessary to ride in rocks (and there have been a few others from AZ of this persuasion, although their numbers have diminished over time), hence my post.

    The Czar's geo looks dialed to me, and those who have ridden it seem to agree.
    A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have.

  24. #24
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    The only shortcomings in the technical riding with the Czar is going to be the rider.
    Ride it like you stole it.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by deano machineo View Post
    The only shortcomings in the technical riding with the Czar is going to be the rider.
    I sincerely hope everyone out here gets one then .
    Nice KOM, sorry about your penis.

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