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  1. #1
    AOK
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    PUSHed my XCE...

    Just got my PUSHed Vanilla RC back this week & thought I would post some thoughts.

    First off, I was pretty pleased with customer service & turnaround time from PUSH. My shock arrived on a Monday morning. Darren called me that afternoon to let me know that it had arrived. It was shipped back to me Tuesday afternoon - also with a call to let me know it was on the way back. So just over a 24 hour turnaround.

    I got the full "race treatment" on my shock.

    As others have noted, the PUSH platform creates a shock with NO noticable bob. When pedaling, the sensation reminds me of riding my old Klein hardtail - without the loss of rear wheel traction or the bone-jarring bumps from the seat & pedals. You feel like every bit of pedal power is getting to the rear wheel. At the same time, the XCE feels as compliant as ever going over bumps. Rear wheel traction is just as good as before, maybe even a little better. One of my worries about a platform shock was a loss of small bump sensitivity. I don't feel that I have really given anything up there.

    One thing that surprised me - I thought that having a platform in the rear would make my Vanilla R up front feel like it was bobbing more than ever. In fact, I haven't really noticed this that much. The bike feels as balanced as before.

    One thing that PUSH should include with the modified shock is a paragraph or two describing the new functions of your rebound & compression adjust knobs and how to fine tune the shock. I guess part of their service is to set everythign up for you (mine feels pretty darn good and I haven't even touched an adjustment knob since it came out of the box), but they should realize that a lot of their customers are likely suspension weenies that will want to play around with everything.

  2. #2
    cask conditioned
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    Quote Originally Posted by AOK

    One thing that PUSH should include with the modified shock is a paragraph or two describing the new functions of your rebound & compression adjust knobs and how to fine tune the shock. I guess part of their service is to set everythign up for you (mine feels pretty darn good and I haven't even touched an adjustment knob since it came out of the box), but they should realize that a lot of their customers are likely suspension weenies that will want to play around with everything.
    Welcome to the Push club! I consider myself a master futzer as I'm always fine tuning my bike for different trails. Darren sets up the controls based on the info you give him and he might only be off by one or two clicks, if that. So far I haven't needed to touch my rebound nor my compression knobs since my first or second ride. But info would be nice just in case I sell my XCE in the future and have to tell someone how to adjust it.

  3. #3
    No, that's not phonetic
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    Did you read BikerX40's synopsis of what the adjustments do? If not, it's good:

    "Okay, an update about my Push'd Vanilla RC. Since it had been a couple months since I had actulally spoken to Darren on the phone about the shock specifics, I wanted a little more info, so I emailed Darren. He replied within 24 hours (maybe they've got a little more help; or working 24/7) and gave me the scoop on fine tuning my shock in it's new configuration.

    After riding the new shock for a week and a half, I have been messing around with the different adjustments and wanted to find out for sure if there was anything different as far as set-up / tuning the compression and rebound. On my stock Fox tuned Vanilla RC, I had to run an overly quick rebound setting in order to prevent packing of the rear wheel over chatter and braking bumps.

    Darren said that the Push'd RC, the red rebound knob now controls only the low-speed rebound circuit- the compression and rebound circuits are now completely isolated in terms of adjustment (no cross talk, like stock). This is accomplished by building a high-speed valve stack, new digressive piston, and a one-way valve at the piston bolt. In terms of tuning, he suggested adding more low-speed rebound (red knob) for stability, since now it has zero effect on the high-frequency bumps.

    My other question had to do with the blue compression knob and the purpose that it now served on my Push 'Race System' shock. Darren confirmed what my initial experience had been about the blue knob affecting the amount of 'platform' (slightly). Basically, the blue compression knob still serves as a low-speed adjustment, and therefore, it will have some effect on the amount of platform as it gets turned in. However, dialing in the blue knob will have considerably less effect on the amount of platform than changing the amount of dish on the piston.

    Oh, I asked him about which piston/shim setup he used in my shock, and he wasn't willing to say due to the fact that it's a 'secret recipe' of intellectual information- which I completely understand given the competitive nature of this industry.

    Despite my initial tuning efforts (tuning the rebound knob like my old Fox - very quick), the shock rides so much nicer than stock. I am really excited to head out tonight and start slowing down the rebound for even more stability - it should add to the already 'glued' feeling that it has "
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  4. #4
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    I got my pushed RC back from Push last week as well. I got the FR valving and I weigh 200 lbs. My RFX runs a 3:1 leverage ratio with it's 6" plates. I couldn't believe how difficult it was to compress the shock by hand (no spring of course ). I'm a strong guy and it took everything I had to compress the thing.

    I felt a bit better when I realized that the Romic that I was replacing was somewhat difficult to compress as well. Given I'm probably a bit heavier than the average rider, I feel comfortable that all is well with the Pushed Fox due to my heft and the SPV.

    I haven't taken the shock for a spin yet as I don't have the correct weight spring, but hopefully by next weekend...

  5. #5
    Bon Vie
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    ... and if we just ... PUSH it real good!!!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by AOK
    Just got my PUSHed Vanilla RC back this week & thought I would post some thoughts.

    First off, I was pretty pleased with customer service & turnaround time from PUSH. My shock arrived on a Monday morning. Darren called me that afternoon to let me know that it had arrived. It was shipped back to me Tuesday afternoon - also with a call to let me know it was on the way back. So just over a 24 hour turnaround.

    I got the full "race treatment" on my shock.

    As others have noted, the PUSH platform creates a shock with NO noticable bob. When pedaling, the sensation reminds me of riding my old Klein hardtail - without the loss of rear wheel traction or the bone-jarring bumps from the seat & pedals. You feel like every bit of pedal power is getting to the rear wheel. At the same time, the XCE feels as compliant as ever going over bumps. Rear wheel traction is just as good as before, maybe even a little better. One of my worries about a platform shock was a loss of small bump sensitivity. I don't feel that I have really given anything up there.

    One thing that surprised me - I thought that having a platform in the rear would make my Vanilla R up front feel like it was bobbing more than ever. In fact, I haven't really noticed this that much. The bike feels as balanced as before.

    One thing that PUSH should include with the modified shock is a paragraph or two describing the new functions of your rebound & compression adjust knobs and how to fine tune the shock. I guess part of their service is to set everythign up for you (mine feels pretty darn good and I haven't even touched an adjustment knob since it came out of the box), but they should realize that a lot of their customers are likely suspension weenies that will want to play around with everything.

    Was just going to start a thread about the Push'd Vanilla RC, and here it is. Got mine back from Darren last Monday and have had 3 rides on it. First off, just made a great ride better (not to mention how pimpin' it looks on my silver 5 Spot). I agree with the posts on including info on rebound and compression controls. Futzed (is that a word) around with them because I ran the Romic compression 1-2 knotches in from full out, which gave enough platform with great small bump compliance. The RC now is dialed 5 clicks in with the same pedalling platform no matter where the dial is (see: Tscheezy's post) but the small and slow hit compliance is simply amazing.

    Had contacted Darren @ Push and 24hrs later had an e-mail reply explaining how both knobs function. Had already run the rebound pretty slow for low speed work and was surprised at how well the shock continued to handle the stutter and high speed hits. Darren's explanation solved the mysteries. This is an incredible addition and very fine handy work by Darren and Push.

    I know which shock I'm going to run most of the time now, and it's good to know that I have 2 shocks that work well so that I can always send one in for service and continue riding.

    Do I see a titanium sprung Push'd Vanilla RC in my future? Hmmmmmmm.........

    -Kevin-
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  6. #6
    AOK
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    Yeah, I saw that

    Quote Originally Posted by tscheezy
    Did you read BikerX40's synopsis of what the adjustments do? If not, it's good:

    "Okay, an update about my Push'd Vanilla RC. Since it had been a couple months since I had actulally spoken to Darren on the phone about the shock specifics, I wanted a little more info, so I emailed Darren. He replied within 24 hours (maybe they've got a little more help; or working 24/7) and gave me the scoop on fine tuning my shock in it's new configuration.

    After riding the new shock for a week and a half, I have been messing around with the different adjustments and wanted to find out for sure if there was anything different as far as set-up / tuning the compression and rebound. On my stock Fox tuned Vanilla RC, I had to run an overly quick rebound setting in order to prevent packing of the rear wheel over chatter and braking bumps.

    Darren said that the Push'd RC, the red rebound knob now controls only the low-speed rebound circuit- the compression and rebound circuits are now completely isolated in terms of adjustment (no cross talk, like stock). This is accomplished by building a high-speed valve stack, new digressive piston, and a one-way valve at the piston bolt. In terms of tuning, he suggested adding more low-speed rebound (red knob) for stability, since now it has zero effect on the high-frequency bumps.

    My other question had to do with the blue compression knob and the purpose that it now served on my Push 'Race System' shock. Darren confirmed what my initial experience had been about the blue knob affecting the amount of 'platform' (slightly). Basically, the blue compression knob still serves as a low-speed adjustment, and therefore, it will have some effect on the amount of platform as it gets turned in. However, dialing in the blue knob will have considerably less effect on the amount of platform than changing the amount of dish on the piston.

    Oh, I asked him about which piston/shim setup he used in my shock, and he wasn't willing to say due to the fact that it's a 'secret recipe' of intellectual information- which I completely understand given the competitive nature of this industry.

    Despite my initial tuning efforts (tuning the rebound knob like my old Fox - very quick), the shock rides so much nicer than stock. I am really excited to head out tonight and start slowing down the rebound for even more stability - it should add to the already 'glued' feeling that it has "
    Yes, I saw this and agree that it is a good description of the knob functions. My comment above was just pointing out that PUSH should include this info with every modified shock. Heck, they could just print BikerX40's text from above and stuff it into each box.

  7. #7
    Toby Wong?
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    I am also running a PUSHED Vanilla RC, have had about 30 hours on it and would agree with everyone else regarding the quality of the ride and service.

    I'm 225 and on my Romic I had a 650 spring, Darren has taken me down to a 600 spring which does not show any bob while seated pedaling, even with the platform knob full out. I can bob it while sprinting, so I run in 3-4 clicks in and it stays in place.

    Really nice! And if you think it looks good on a silver one, you should see it on red!

  8. #8
    roots, rocks, rhythm
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    I have a dumb question or 3 concerning the Push modification.
    (Please be kind when answering)
    1.) I assume that your Fox that came with the bike is modified by Push?
    2.) What is the cost? If I can ask........
    3.) From what I can read it seems to be worth the modification? y or n
    4.) Is it that dramatic of an improvement?

    thanks
    Kevin

  9. #9
    AOK
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    some answers

    Quote Originally Posted by Dawgprimo
    I have a dumb question or 3 concerning the Push modification.
    (Please be kind when answering)
    1.) I assume that your Fox that came with the bike is modified by Push?
    2.) What is the cost? If I can ask........
    3.) From what I can read it seems to be worth the modification? y or n
    4.) Is it that dramatic of an improvement?

    thanks
    Kevin

    1 - Yes, the shock I had modified by PUSH was the stock Fox Vanilla RC that came with my XCE.

    2 - Go to http://www.pushindustries.com & click on the 'services' tab for costs. The "works" for the Vanilla RC is about $170.

    3 - It is worth the modification if you want a platform damper on your shock. It is also cheaper than buying most new platform shocks.

    4 - The difference between my stock Vanilla & the PUSHed one is very dramatic. Like I said above, it feels like a hardtail when I pedal, but still handles the bumps well. Keep in mind that I had a 2002 Vanilla without the propedal damping offered on the new ones. I have read that the PUSH mod is not as dramatic compared with a Propedal shock, but still an improvement. Green Giant posted a pretty good review of his PUSHed Float vs. a ProPedal Float on the Ventana boards that you might want to check out.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by AOK
    4 - The difference between my stock Vanilla & the PUSHed one is very dramatic. Like I said above, it feels like a hardtail when I pedal, but still handles the bumps well. Keep in mind that I had a 2002 Vanilla without the propedal damping offered on the new ones. I have read that the PUSH mod is not as dramatic compared with a Propedal shock, but still an improvement. Green Giant posted a pretty good review of his PUSHed Float vs. a ProPedal Float on the Ventana boards that you might want to check out.
    It's important to note that Push factors in the rider weight as well as the bike's leverage ratio. You don't get that kind of customization from a Fox propedal. And though my knowledge of SPVs isn't all that vast, I would imagine that those two variables are pretty damn important when it comes to creating a stable platform.

  11. #11
    AOK
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    Agree...

    Quote Originally Posted by incubus
    It's important to note that Push factors in the rider weight as well as the bike's leverage ratio. You don't get that kind of customization from a Fox propedal. And though my knowledge of SPVs isn't all that vast, I would imagine that those two variables are pretty damn important when it comes to creating a stable platform.
    This is something that Green Giant also brought up in the Ventana thread (Ride report - PUSHed float on my Salty/X5 (other comparisions)), and I think it is a good point.

    He concluded that the slightly better performance he got from his PUSH shock vs. his stock Propedal was that the PUSH was tuned to him & his bike and not the "average man" riding the "average bike".

  12. #12
    Toby Wong?
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    x-post from ridemonkey written by Darren

    Hey guys/gals,

    Just thought I'd chime in real quick. I don't like to be pesky because I believe that everyone should be able to voice their opinion/experience, but I'll always participate if you guys have specific questions.

    Anyway, to answer a few things that are going on:

    1. Team DHR shocks. This is a two part program. First, the current shocks that are being raced by the Honda/Turner Team and Eric Carter from Hyundai/ Mongoose, use our current production "Race Systems" components that are available to the public. We did have to manufacture additional components to utilize the hose system for proper fitment on the bike. They do, however, benefit from more refined tuning due to the fact that we work so closely with both teams week in and week out.

    The second protion of the program is new product development. The reason that the new components aren't being used on "race day" yet is because of the lack of proven mileage. As more and more testing miles are put on the new prototype parts and, the bugs are worked out completely, they will be released into the Race Dampers. As we all now, you have to finish the race to win. Additionally, as the new components gain more race mileage, we'll begin to make decsions on what will be brought to market.

    2. As for the tubes, eyelets, shafts, etc. they're all stock Fox pieces. In regards to the black eyelets that some people have mentioned, those are production for '04. The Fox shock is an awesome package to work with and the production components are very well manufactured. The pieces that we build are just to tweak them to maximize the performance.

    3. Performance wise, our system does isolate the individual circuits of the shock. We do this with a series of one-way valves located at each respective piston or valve in the shock. There is no "free" or "common" bleed at the piston. Again, we use a simple shim stack built into the piston bolt head to direct all of the fluid flow into the piston on compression. At the same time, the displaced fluid from the piston rod is being metered through the adjuster and valve located in the reservoir housing. This is a secondary, low speed circuit allowing externall fine tuning. On the extension stroke, the compression adjuster has a valve closing off the bleed directing the fluid through a seperate circuit allwoing the main cylinder to replenish freely. At the same time that this action is happening, the compression face of the piston closes and the rebound bleed begins, opening the shim stack located at the bolt head. During high frequency, there's also a secondary rebound circuit built into the piston which allows the fluid to "dump" allowing the shock speed to increase to keep the wheel in contact with the ground. All of the circuits are being controlled with various valve stacks of configured shock shims.

    Anyway, like I mentioned, I'll be happy to give you guys/gals any other info that you're looking for.

    Sorry for the book.

    Thanks,

    Darren Murphy
    Push Industries

  13. #13
    roots, rocks, rhythm
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    Thanks for all the info.
    I am seriously thinking about it.

    Kevin

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by incubus
    I got my pushed RC back from Push last week as well. I got the FR valving and I weigh 200 lbs. My RFX runs a 3:1 leverage ratio with it's 6" plates. I couldn't believe how difficult it was to compress the shock by hand (no spring of course ). I'm a strong guy and it took everything I had to compress the thing.

    I felt a bit better when I realized that the Romic that I was replacing was somewhat difficult to compress as well. Given I'm probably a bit heavier than the average rider, I feel comfortable that all is well with the Pushed Fox due to my heft and the SPV.

    I haven't taken the shock for a spin yet as I don't have the correct weight spring, but hopefully by next weekend...
    Did Darren worry at all about he 3:1 leverage ratio? Also, does that effect the effectiveness of the platform damping? Also, Romic shocks can use a lighter spring as a result of the platform damping, can the PUSH modified shocks?

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by anand
    Did Darren worry at all about he 3:1 leverage ratio? Also, does that effect the effectiveness of the platform damping? Also, Romic shocks can use a lighter spring as a result of the platform damping, can the PUSH modified shocks?
    He didn't worry about the ratio.

    About the spring: I run a 650# on my romic (200*3 + some preload). Darren's own spring calculator calced out my needing a 675# spring. Which aren't that readily available. He said that I should round down rather than up due to the SPV.

    I compressed my Romic and was surprised how firm it was. Not as firm as the Push shock, but pretty damn firm. I attribute the extra-firmness of the Fox to it being valved for my weight, which is higher than 'average'.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by incubus
    He didn't worry about the ratio.

    About the spring: I run a 650# on my romic (200*3 + some preload). Darren's own spring calculator calced out my needing a 675# spring. Which aren't that readily available. He said that I should round down rather than up due to the SPV.

    I compressed my Romic and was surprised how firm it was. Not as firm as the Push shock, but pretty damn firm. I attribute the extra-firmness of the Fox to it being valved for my weight, which is higher than 'average'.
    That is good to hear. I just got to get the funds together to make the call and get my shock Pushed.

    When you say you compressed the Romic, was this with the spring removed and off the bike? I can't even compressed my Fox Vanilla (with the spring removed).

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by anand
    That is good to hear. I just got to get the funds together to make the call and get my shock Pushed.

    When you say you compressed the Romic, was this with the spring removed and off the bike? I can't even compressed my Fox Vanilla (with the spring removed).
    I mean with the spring removed. I could compress my Fox fairly easily, my romic took some more effort. My Pushed Fox feels like it is one solid piece of metal.

    I'm sure it'll feel great on the trial (still don't have my spring ).

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