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  1. #1
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    Push the Burner or buy a Flux?

    Done some adv searches but still have not been convinced either way. I love my Burner a lot, I still laugh at how it descends for 3.6" travel. What I don't like is that it does not accelerate as well as I would like, it is a bit sluggish in comparison to a couple of other bikes I have recently ridden ( rush, blur, different susp of course, same weights). I was thinking of getting the 100 RL, & RP3 pushed . The stock RP3 seems a bit mushy ( I am 160lbs, 155 psi, I dropped the air sleeve for a nosey and there was about 1/2 a teaspoon of oil or so in there) suspect this could be the cause of the sluggishness?, would push mods make it sprint better? I have enough coin to drop on this mod + some UG,but that will be it for about a year . I got this frame used so I don't know the history of the RP3:I don't know what a new one feels like, on this bike. I would give up some downhill ability for some uphill/sprint ability.
    Or, should I get a Flux???, I could push the Flux, later of course.
    I don't have experience with the Flux, or Push mods, help a brother out and talk me into one of these. Sweet!
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  2. #2
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    Well,

    I have a used Burner and a Spot. The Burner has a AVA which was pushed, luckily by the previous owner, who was also my weight. I pushed the RP3 on my Spot. I got my used Burner after having the Pushed Spot for about 9 months.......
    I asked PUSH to adjust the RP3 with a little more (than factory) platform on the 'stiffest' setting and make the 'plusher' setting more plush. I keep the middle setting the same. I ride slowly and, overall, didn't really notice that much difference, to be truthful with the RP3. If I were to do it again, I'd tell them to make the platform almost hardtail like in the 'stiffest' setting.
    When I got my used Burner with the Fox AVA, I moved the volume ring all the way to the largest volume setting and then rode it after setting the sag. I was amazed at 3 things. 1.the way the Burner accelerated so much faster vs the Spot and; 2.how plush the Burner felt for 3.6" and 3; how I could maneuver it easier. Both bikes have the same front fork and basically the same wheelset / tires and equipment.
    But anyway, I would suggest talking to the PUSH guys, get their opinion, and watch for more replys here....
    We told you 650b rocks! Riding converted RFX for years!

  3. #3
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    Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat!

    I have a burner with a fox vanilla at 125 mm and the swinger inthe rear and it accelerates like a rocket...almost as well as my hardtail.

    Definitely the mushy shock I guess?

  4. #4
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    Yes to both!
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  5. #5
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    flux. get a flux. if ya ask me, which ya did, i say a flux is the way to go. did i mention you should get a flux? theres no comparison between a buner and a flux with a flux commin out waaaaaaaaay on top, therefore you should get a flux. now go get a flux.















































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  6. #6
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    Yep, I hear you Cactus, in fact I have heard you speak of the Flux before. I am leaning towards the Flux, thanks for all the input people. If and when I get it I will let you know about it.

  7. #7
    MSH
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    I wavered back and forth on this one, but finally decided to trade in my old '00 XCE frame for a Flux this week. (Although I'm completely bummed, cause Greg told me I was going to get my Flux yesterday before the extended weekend, but nothing arrived )

    I did the whole XR rocker thing and thought about the PUSH'd RP3, but finally decided that the refinements that DT has made since 2000 and all the talk on this board of the refinements really making the bikes that much better were enough for me to finally pull the trigger on a new frame. Once that decision was made I had a VERY VERY tough time deciding between the Flux and the logical progression from the XCE...the Spot. For the riding I'm doing now the Flux really covers 95% of the riding I'm now doing in Norcal. Tough, tough decision but I think I really made the right one.

    Anyway, good luck with your decision!!

    MSH

  8. #8
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    I put up a comparison between the Burner and the Flux (burner vs flux).

    I love my Flux more than the Burner, but the Burner was designed heavier duty than the Flux. If this is something that you're not looking for, then there aren't enough ways I can tell you the Flux is a better bike. The Flux is really well built and will last within its parameters.

    Now I will use less spaces to repeat:

    Flux. Don't listen to CC. Listen to me and give me the credit. Ever seen him on a bike? From what I hear, it's kind of like seeing a circus monkey on a trike. Trust me, it's true.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    Don't listen to CC. Listen to me and give me the credit. Ever seen him on a bike? From what I hear, it's kind of like seeing a circus monkey on a trike. Trust me, it's true.
    oh, now the monkey jokes! truth is, before i got the flux i rode like a sloth. get the flux!
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  10. #10
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    "Me Sloth, you Chunk!"

  11. #11
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    CC, who is the woman in the photo, and what exactly is she doing? I am moving up to WA in a year (moving off that subject now) and need to take the terrain up there into consideration . I am looking (just looking) at a couple of other cycles as well, you know, RX100,SCB XC.etc etc I am in FL now and there are no test bikes here, hence my need for experienced input from you guys/monkeys. (no offense) I need a swift climber, like a monkey.Keep em coming.

  12. #12
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    thats my wife. what about it? you got somethin to say about my wife smart boy?? cumon, after school! flux.
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  13. #13
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    I am very pleased with the upgrade work I have done with my Burner. - Not sure what the big (geometry) difference between a Burner equipped with and RP-3 and XR rockers is vs a Flux that would account for such passion from the others posting here.
    If you want a snappier ride and better climbing, also think about the fork! A lot of the fluxes out there have a platform-equipped fork. - I sent my Fox RLC to PUSH and that made the kind of difference these posts rave about.
    Upgrade the Burner and remember the fork.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burnerd
    Not sure what the big (geometry) difference between a Burner equipped with and RP-3 and XR rockers is vs a Flux that would account for such passion from the others posting here.
    please excuse me if i come off like a smart ass here but essentially, thats me in a nut shell so bear with me a moment as i delve into the non technical side of things and talk in generalities. the diff between the 2 is huge. not sorta kinda, but huge. a quick look at the frame geometry will show ya the beginnings of why and how. after that have a peek at the rocker geo and either ask a pal who gets it or take a ride yerself and then it really starts to become clear why we rave. dont forget to take into account the weight diff and that little platform rear damper thing they tossed on the rp3 as it offers some other improvements that are pretty substancial and can not be felt even close to its full potential on the old rocker location. any comparisons to the swinger will not be tolerated. see below.

    this is much like havin a old gto and tossin some sticky tires and firmer shocks on it then askin "why buy a new one?". nuthin wrong with the original goat, not at all, but compareable to the new car in terms of performance and efficiancy? hardly. theres simply no contest. if theres any pontiac pureists in the room, just back the hell off. this is a fair and accurate analogy no matter how cool the early gto's are. if this really pizzes ya off, substitute a porsche bathtub and a '06 911 carrera s.

    now most know im the proud owner of one of the very first burners made and i own it to this day. will i sell? dont hold yer breath. have i updated it to current technology? you betcha and it made a big and positive diff as you suggested it would but theres no comparison to the new chassis. this goes way beond marketing hype and expected "i just spent $1800" feel. it bounds on incredible as ive touted for the past 8 months on this board along with many others when we quickly realized how it out performed every expectation we entered into it with. and some of us have been ridin down the turner road for many, many years.

    the old burners have 3 clear advantages over the flux. theyre stiffer in the front triangle, able to take more abuse and they ended up costin a ton less. all good stuff for sure but ya must realize the breed gets better overall or it stagnates, folks lookin for a burlyer xc'ish turner go to a spot or pack and finally, you were lucky if ya got a $900 burner (i wont go into why).

    so there ya go. bartender, one flux please! mmmmmmmmmmm...... now thats a nice bike.
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  15. #15
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    1 of the lucky ones!

    I am one of the lucky ones to picked up a Burner when Supergo blew them out. I love the bike! I would like to pick up a set of XR Rockers for it if anyone has a set. If I find a set, do I need a longer stroke shock? I currently have a 6.5 X 1.5 Swinger 3 Way.

  16. #16
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    Eh.

    Quote Originally Posted by cactuscorn
    now most know im the proud owner of one of the very first burners made and i own it to this day. will i sell? dont hold yer breath. have i updated it to current technology? you betcha and it made a big and positive diff as you suggested it would but theres no comparison to the new chassis. this goes way beond marketing hype and expected "i just spent $1800" feel. it bounds on incredible as ive touted for the past 8 months on this board along with many others when we quickly realized how it out performed every expectation we entered into it with. and some of us have been ridin down the turner road for many, many years.
    I just went to a 5-spot from an XCE w/ an RP3 (basically a Burner) and I _really_ don't see how people are saying it's a night and day difference. It's a little better but the Burner is a great bike. My XCE _definitely_ pedaled and climbed better than the 5-spot.

    Perhaps the Flux is night and day better pedaling/more efficient than the 5-spot? It would have to be to be that much better than my old XCE.

    I sometimes wonder if people don't gush about the new stuff simply because:

    1) It's new
    2) They would feel stupid if they spent a lot of money on something that isn't night and day better.

    Dave

  17. #17
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    The shock doesn't change, still 6.5 x 1.5. Good luck finding rockers, Paul no longer has them, but they do appear pretty regularly here. You will need to redo your rear brake and derailleur housing once you install the XRs. they add about an inch to the run from stop to stop.
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  18. #18
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    Geometry difference - Not

    [QUOTE=cactuscorn]please excuse me if i come off like a smart ass here but essentially, thats me in a nut shell so bear with me a moment as i delve into the non technical side of things and talk in generalities. the diff between the 2 is huge. not sorta kinda, but huge. a quick look at the frame geometry will show ya the beginnings of why and how.


    CC - I had a quick look at the frame geometry.. An XR Burner and a Flux are pretty much identical geometry except for 3/10ths inch longer top tube... hmmm... Does this "huge" difference add up to a Porsche - Pontiac difference? -
    ...and I guess your thinking the horizontal rocker can compensate for the Burner's Horst link that the Flux no longer has?
    I think we both agree that an RP 3 is a great shock - way better than the Swinger.

    So take the Burner, add XR rockers an RP 3 shock, and a platform fork. - you're good to go.

    Sure, I'll buy the "evolution of technology" line here, but this frame difference sounds to me more to me like the difference between XT and XTR cranks... costs more, lighter? yes, better? - o.k., but for lots of riders, not worth the dollars to upgrade.
    Rockinrod will get way more bang for his buck if he upgrades the suspension components on the Burner.

    Anyone else done a comparison test between a Flux and an XR Burner (with RP 3), and the same components?
    what doesn't kill you makes you stronger

  19. #19
    FM
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockinrod35
    I am moving up to WA in a year (moving off that subject now) and need to take the terrain up there into consideration . I am looking (just looking) at a couple of other cycles as well, you know, RX100,SCB XC.etc etc )
    Whoa, wait a minute! Where in washington are you moving to? If you are moving west of the cascades, skip all this stuff and go straight to a 5" bike like a 5-spot, Titus Motolite or Yeti 575.

    East of the cascades, there are plenty of long, scenic awesome XC rides where a 4" bike will be great. West of the cascades we have basically two kinds of trails: 1. Steep, technical and rooty, and 2. steep technical and rooty with stunts. Well I am exagerating a bit but really, 5" is XC out here, just due to the variety of the terrain.

  20. #20
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    I'll be moving around the Everett area. I have not ridden around there , anywhere in WA yet. Going up to Leavenworth in a few weeks for a break and to do some riding .

  21. #21
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    CC - I had a quick look at the frame geometry.. An XR Burner and a Flux are pretty much identical geometry except for 3/10ths inch longer top tube... hmmm... Does this "huge" difference add up to a Porsche - Pontiac difference?

    yes, theres the t/t diff, and the b/bkt height diff, and the c/s length diff, and when ya toss on the bigger rockers youll have to include the h/t angle diff, and the s/t angle diff, then account for a more drastic b/bkt diff as well. so yer right. almost identical except for all the differences.

    ...and I guess your thinking the horizontal rocker can compensate for the Burner's Horst link that the Flux no longer has?


    no, not really. as a matter of fact i made a point of not bringin that up but thanx for muddyin up the waters.

    I think we both agree that an RP 3 is a great shock - way better than the Swinger.

    yes we do. can we hug now?

    So take the Burner, add XR rockers an RP 3 shock, and a platform fork. - you're good to go.

    pretty much what i did and many others before me. alot of us were good to go in orderin up a flux once we rode one and felt the improvements. heres yer taco bell order by the way mr "good to go" and quit it with the annoying little hand gesture will ya?

    Sure, I'll buy the "evolution of technology" line here, but this frame difference sounds to me more to me like the difference between XT and XTR cranks... costs more, lighter? yes, better? - o.k., but for lots of riders, not worth the dollars to upgrade.
    Rockinrod will get way more bang for his buck if he upgrades the suspension components on the Burner.


    its all a matter of desired ride feel vs expendable income if ya ask me. nuthin wrong with a $175 set of rockers, a $450 damper, a $650 platform fork and $100 of labor. lets see... thats about $1275 worth of upgrades right? a new flux frame goes for roughly $1800 at full retail with anothe $100 for a build and works plenty sweet with any decent 4" fork so now were talkin another 5 to 6 bills over yer upgrade savings to get the better chassis. if it were me (and he asked) id go with the flux hands down.

    Anyone else done a comparison test between a Flux and an XR Burner (with RP 3), and the same components?

    this is a fine idea and could prove me wrong but i doubt it so ill stick to my guns here. id like to see that test anyway. could be damn interesting.

    hope ya dont feel im throwin daggers at ya burnered. just clearin things up is all. we's pals right? did i mention im a smart ass?
    Last edited by cactuscorn; 06-09-2006 at 01:43 PM.
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by cactuscorn
    lets see... thats about $1275 worth of upgrades right? a new flux frame goes for roughly $1800 at full retail ...
    And the flash ad at the top has em for $1600... is it worth 4 bennies more than upgrading? Only your wallet knows for sure. But I bet you can make up that difference selling the Burner...heck DT is giving $600 off retail on a trade-in so now you're talking even money at the very most.
    Faster is better, even when it's not.

  23. #23
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    $1600 for a flux? really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bikezilla
    And the flash ad at the top has em for $1600... is it worth 4 bennies more than upgrading? Only your wallet knows for sure. But I bet you can make up that difference selling the Burner...heck DT is giving $600 off retail on a trade-in so now you're talking even money at the very most.
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  24. #24
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    Wow, how wrong can a person be?

    Quote Originally Posted by cactuscorn
    and when ya toss on the bigger rockers youll have to include the h/t angle diff, and the s/t angle diff, then account for a more drastic b/bkt diff as well. so yer right. almost identical except for all the differences.

    ...


    ts all a matter of desired ride feel vs expendable income if ya ask me. nuthin wrong with a $175 set of rockers, a $450 damper, a $650 platform fork and $100 of labor. lets see... thats about $1275 worth of upgrades right? a new flux frame goes for roughly $1800 at full retail with anothe $100 for a build and works plenty sweet with any decent 4" fork so now were talkin another 5 to 6 bills over yer upgrade savings to get the better chassis. if it were me (and he asked) id go with the flux hands down.
    FYI, the longer rockers don't change the s/t, h/t or the BB height. But thanks for the misinformation.

    So, the differences in geometry are; .2" longer TT, .1" higher BB and .15" longer chain stays. If you think that makes that much of a difference then fine..... but I happen to think you're deluding yourself.

    Definitely the difference between a pontiac and a porsche.

    Lets look @ the real cost:

    Rockers: ~110 bucks.

    Shock: I'm sure you could get a Float for 250 or so. No need for an RP3. Even if you _had_ to have an RP3 you could get a used one or a new one for a _lot_ less than 450. I think the MSRP is < 400.

    Labor: Unless you're a complete moron you should be able to add the rockers and the shock yourself, so 0 bucks. I'm assuming you could swap the parts from the old frame to the new, but that's quite a bit more complex.

    Does 1800 for the flux come with a new 650 dollar platform front shock? No? Then I'm not sure why you're adding it to the total. The burner works fine with any decent 4" fork as well.

    So, for ~350 or so you can get a bike that's probably 95+% as good as a flux, vs. spending 1200+ for a new frame. Makes sense to me....

    I'm glad you like your Flux, but at least _try_ to be a little objective ok?

    Dave

  25. #25
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    Even money?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bikezilla
    And the flash ad at the top has em for $1600... is it worth 4 bennies more than upgrading? Only your wallet knows for sure. But I bet you can make up that difference selling the Burner...heck DT is giving $600 off retail on a trade-in so now you're talking even money at the very most.
    Heh, only w/ CC math. It's probably 700 bucks or so even w/ the trade-in and the sale price.

    You make a good point about how much it's worth though. If it's worth 700 bucks to get a new frame then go for it. I just went the trade in route and got my 5-spot for 1100 bucks. It turns out after riding it that the I don't think it was worth the cost, but the new bike sure is pretty....

    Dave

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