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  1. #1
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    Prince Kahn (27.5+ Sultan)

    Inspired by DT and the ride of the 29 x 3 knards on my snowbike I took the plunge and had the LBS make up a set of 27.5 wheels with 40mm Nextie rims and slapped them on the Sultan. These tires just eat roots and bumps, are super stable and have tons of traction. In a word, FUN!! A big improvement for where & how I ride, i.e. on narrow rooty trails for the most part.

    The King Kahn looks really fun, but it was hard to justify with a Sultan and snow bike in the stable and a wife who can count. Plus, being a man of substance, I need low gears for the hills and wanted to keep my triple. Not having ridden the KK I can't directly compare, but have to think that the PK is about 90% as fun for 20% of the cost.

    A few geeky details:

    At the moment the front tire is the 3.5 (actually 2.75) Fat Be Nimble - fast and light. Plenty of clearance with Fox 36/150.

    The biggest tire I can run on the 40mm rims without rubbing the chain on the tire in granny gear is the Vee Tire Fatty Trax 2.8 (tried the 3.0 and it was no go - fine in the middle ring tho).

    Even with the 2.8 the clearance is minimal and the chain acts like a squeegee in the really gloppy mud. Plus, I had to move the 2.5mm spacer to the drive side and slightly dish the wheel towards the non-drive side.

    Two downsides though:

    First, the setup does drop the bottom bracket about .5 inches relative to the prior setup which was 29 x 2.35 Racing Ralphs on Stan's Flow rims. Since the switch the number pedal strikes has gone from almost zero to way too many - but will probably change once the mind gets re-calibrated which is slowly happening; and,

    Second, the rolling resistance in the sticky mud is horrible - much more resistance that the 29ers. They are also slow on pavement. But on dry and frozen ground the don't seem much slower than the old setup.


    At any rate, the Sultan was getting a little boring . . . but no more.

    A worthy change.Prince Kahn (27.5+ Sultan)-s2.jpgPrince Kahn (27.5+ Sultan)-s1.jpg

  2. #2
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    Looks great, and fun! I had a 29+ for a few years and liked it, esp. when I put a big fork on it. But 29+ can't get around the weight of the wheels. So 27.5 plus makes a lot of sense - actually planning to build up a set for my Honzo. Schwalbe has some 27+ tires coming out (nobly nic), that will be perfect for your Sultan.

  3. #3
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    Sweet rig!


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  4. #4
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    Schweet!! Is that a XL or XXL frame? How much weight did that add?


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    XXL Spesh FSR 29er | Custom Ti roadie by Triton | FM190 build in progress

  5. #5
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    The frame is an XL.

    The extra weight depends mostly on tire choice.

    The old rear wheel (I9 hubs, I9 spokes, Stan's Flow and RR 2.4) and the new rear wheel (I9 hubs, standard spokes, Nextie 40mm rims and Fat Be Nimble 3.5) were very close - the new setup being 20gm more or something.

    But with the 2.8 Fatty Trax on there it weighs another 300g or so.

    Looking forward to trying Schwalbe tires when they come out early next year.

    Also, after yet another ride in the muck I am convinced that the fat setup is much more prone to slipping on the mud, wet logs/roots and everything else that is not dry. Kind of like a wide slick in the snow. Right now the ground is freezing at night and the top layer partially melts during the day - slick as can be with the 1/2" of mud on top of frozen ground. The 29er setup handled it relatively well. It could just be the tires, but suspect it is the extra width.

  6. #6
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    Glad to hear it's 'doable'. I think the Sultan is the only that can get away with a triple in DT's stable when fattened.

    FWIW, I agree on the fat tires in the mud. They often have enough float that they don't sink deep enough to get sufficient support/traction

  7. #7
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    re BB height, just measured it in garage - 13.5" - which is pretty much the same as the 13.6 spec. That is with 36/150 fork (which has very close to the a-c of the 34). However, actual height of 27.5+ setup was 1/2" less then Flows/Racing Ralph 2.35, using framing square against door to make sure measurement was accurate. But 1/2" still makes a big difference on rooty trails!

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stroganof View Post
    The frame is an XL.

    The extra weight depends mostly on tire choice.

    The old rear wheel (I9 hubs, I9 spokes, Stan's Flow and RR 2.4) and the new rear wheel (I9 hubs, standard spokes, Nextie 40mm rims and Fat Be Nimble 3.5) were very close - the new setup being 20gm more or something.

    But with the 2.8 Fatty Trax on there it weighs another 300g or so.

    Looking forward to trying Schwalbe tires when they come out early next year.

    Also, after yet another ride in the muck I am convinced that the fat setup is much more prone to slipping on the mud, wet logs/roots and everything else that is not dry. Kind of like a wide slick in the snow. Right now the ground is freezing at night and the top layer partially melts during the day - slick as can be with the 1/2" of mud on top of frozen ground. The 29er setup handled it relatively well. It could just be the tires, but suspect it is the extra width.
    What air pressure are you running in those fat tires? My winter experience on 4" tires is that you REALLY need to lower the pressure, and when running single digits, 1/4 pound here or there makes a HUGE difference. So much so that you need a separate pressure gauge(15psi max) to understand what's going on. I ran 4.5 in the front 6.5 in the back tubeless, and was solid in the snow. Certainly tire choice plays into it...especially at really low pressure. I weigh 180 for reference.


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  9. #9
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    Not really dialed in on psi yet, but running 18r/16f for starters. Typically run 11r/9f on fat bike, but our trails are generally pretty firm so lowser psi not generally needed or preferable iMO. 250+ lbs.

  10. #10
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    Just replaced lower shock bushing with Turner offset bushing and that jacked the bottom bracket up a bit - about 13.9" now, which should get rid of the pedal strike issue.

  11. #11
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    Just wondering if you were still running the plus Stoganof? I am looking to do the same with my Sultan and was wondering if there was anything new to report?
    2011 Quiring 29er Steel Hardtail
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  12. #12
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    no, nothing new to report. winter arrived and the fat bike came out to play. was not too impresses with the vee tire on the back, but now that the nobby nic 2.8 is out that issue should be solved. be sure to buy the turner lower shock mount to maintain bb height and you will be good to go.

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  13. #13
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    Stroganof: Have you had good luck with the Offset bushing? I dropped the bottom bracket a bit with a 27.5+ Sultan conversion, I think about 1/4 inch. It hasn't been a major issue but certainly noticeable on rough terrain with pedal strikes. However, I think I like the lowering for cornering and handling. Is it an adjustable offset or an up or down 2 setting deal? Thanks.

  14. #14
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    the offset bushing has worked well, pretty much set and forget.

    It is hard to imagine that any intermediate setting would work as the constant pounding from the shock would make the bushing migrate to the low position. When in the high position the forces from the shock are just transmitted to the frame - but it may migtate anyway - have not checked yet.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stroganof View Post
    the offset bushing has worked well, pretty much set and forget.

    It is hard to imagine that any intermediate setting would work as the constant pounding from the shock would make the bushing migrate to the low position. When in the high position the forces from the shock are just transmitted to the frame - but it may migtate anyway - have not checked yet.
    Hi Everyone, I have a Turner Sultan 27.5+ setup as well, I just purchased 2 offset bushing and was wondering if there were issues with clearance?

    Also the bottom bracket is already lower because of the wheels but wondering if installing the offset bushings on the upper and lower shock mounts will cause the bb to be too low?

    The HA should be around 68 which should give a different characteristic to the bike. Anyone have experience with this setup?

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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeus2121 View Post
    Hi Everyone, I have a Turner Sultan 27.5+ setup as well, I just purchased 2 offset bushing and was wondering if there were issues with clearance?

    Also the bottom bracket is already lower because of the wheels but wondering if installing the offset bushings on the upper and lower shock mounts will cause the bb to be too low?

    The HA should be around 68 which should give a different characteristic to the bike. Anyone have experience with this setup?

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    The orientation of the offset(s) will ultimately determine if the BB is raised or lowered. I believe that most of the folks who have used the bushing (myself included) are using it exclusively in the lower mount (too much rotation in the upper mount I would guess) and the offset is oriented up. This raises the BB.

    I suppose that you could also install a bushing in the upper mount (oriented down) for some additional BB height. But as I mentioned above, the rotational forces on the upper mount might turn the bushing around on you. And if that happens (to the upper mount only), your bike will have the same geometry as it did before the offset bushings, but the shock will be sitting slightly higher.


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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by incubus View Post
    The orientation of the offset(s) will ultimately determine if the BB is raised or lowered. I believe that most of the folks who have used the bushing (myself included) are using it exclusively in the lower mount (too much rotation in the upper mount I would guess) and the offset is oriented up. This raises the BB.

    I suppose that you could also install a bushing in the upper mount (oriented down) for some additional BB height. But as I mentioned above, the rotational forces on the upper mount might turn the bushing around on you. And if that happens (to the upper mount only), your bike will have the same geometry as it did before the offset bushings, but the shock will be sitting slightly higher.


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    Thank you incubus.

    Wanted to achieve a slacker head angle to feel more comfortable going down hill. I guess experimentation is key. I'll try one offset on the lower first and see if it makes a difference.

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  18. #18
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    Prince Kahn (27.5+ Sultan)

    Quote Originally Posted by zeus2121 View Post
    Thank you incubus.

    Wanted to achieve a slacker head angle to feel more comfortable going down hill. I guess experimentation is key. I'll try one offset on the lower first and see if it makes a difference.

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    Ha! You know I realized that shortly after typing my novel. I think that you'll be ok if you use two bushings, both offset for slacker angles as that's the way that the suspension forces on the shock want the bushings to sit. But as you suggested with your comment about experimentation, only your trails can tell you definitely whether or not the BB is too low.

    You do have the benefit of a fairly high starting point (by today's LLS standards anyway). I was looking at a trek fuel plus bike at one point and the BB was 12.75" in the high geometry settings.


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  19. #19
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    Prince Kahn (27.5+ Sultan)

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  20. #20
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    It would be fun to see how it works... Most of the new 27.5plus FS bikes today range from 66 to 68 HA. I think 68 HA would be the sweet spot. Love the Sultan now with the B+ setup.

    Current Setup:
    Pike RCT3 140mm
    Rockshox Monarch RT tuned by Push 125mm
    Easton Carbon Bars
    Thompson Stem
    Xt 1x10 using One-up Extended Cog with Radr Cage 11-42
    Xt breaks

    Looking at getting a Giant Contact Dropper in the next couple weeks. Well reviewed and seems to be the most reliable on the consensus of bike shops and internet.



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  21. #21
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    Take a look at the 9point8 FallLine droppers, have had mine for about 6 months now and no issues except having to do a brake reset which sorted the post dropping sometimes, coupled that with cleaning and re-greasing the foam ring and good as new.

    Quote Originally Posted by zeus2121 View Post
    Looking at getting a Giant Contact Dropper in the next couple weeks. Well reviewed and seems to be the most reliable on the consensus of bike shops and internet.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    Take a look at the 9point8 FallLine droppers, have had mine for about 6 months now and no issues except having to do a brake reset which sorted the post dropping sometimes, coupled that with cleaning and re-greasing the foam ring and good as new.
    Hi LyNx, so I considered them as well... But they are double the price. The giant only requires greasing at the same intervals.

    Thanks for the advice.

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  23. #23
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    1. Out of curiosity, can any Sultan frameset accept a 27.5+ wheelset?

    2. Going from 29er wheels to 27.5+, how did the ride change?

    Thank you.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by fthefox View Post
    1. Out of curiosity, can any Sultan frameset accept a 27.5+ wheelset?

    2. Going from 29er wheels to 27.5+, how did the ride change?

    Thank you.
    Yes any Sultan 2011+ can accept up to 3.0 tires in the rear. Make sure your fork is compatible.

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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeus2121 View Post
    It would be fun to see how it works... Most of the new 27.5plus FS bikes today range from 66 to 68 HA. I think 68 HA would be the sweet spot. Love the Sultan now with the B+ setup.

    Current Setup:
    Pike RCT3 140mm
    Rockshox Monarch RT tuned by Push 125mm
    Easton Carbon Bars
    Thompson Stem
    Xt 1x10 using One-up Extended Cog with Radr Cage 11-42
    Xt breaks

    Looking at getting a Giant Contact Dropper in the next couple weeks. Well reviewed and seems to be the most reliable on the consensus of bike shops and internet.



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    Your build is a bit like mine...

    140mm fork
    XT brakes
    Shimano transmission
    One up extended cog & rad cage

    This pic was taken before I installed a stealth fox transfer dropper.




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  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by incubus View Post
    Your build is a bit like mine...

    140mm fork
    XT brakes
    Shimano transmission
    One up extended cog & rad cage

    This pic was taken before I installed a stealth fox transfer dropper.




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    How did you get a Stealth Dropper installed? Is there a cable route I'm missing?

    I'm going to pickup a Giant Contact SL Dropper this week(Seems to be most reliable, easy to maintain and provides dual- Stealth and External capabilities and Cheap)

  27. #27
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    If you run a triple you can't go bigger than 2.8 in the rear, and even that has minimal clearance. If you run 1x then perhaps a 3.0 will work.

  28. #28
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    Not sure where you're finding that post for 1/2 the 9point8, MSRP on Giants site says $300. Besides the price difference, for me there were other reasons to choose it, 1 being great reviews, the other being the ability to run either an offset or straight head and the fact that there are 2 separate tightening/adjustments so when you adjust the saddle in the rails for/aft you don't mess with tilt and vice/versa.

    Quote Originally Posted by zeus2121 View Post
    Hi LyNx, so I considered them as well... But they are double the price. The giant only requires greasing at the same intervals.

    Thanks for the advice.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  29. #29
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    Hi Lynx,

    https://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-ca...st/2269/74964/ - $300 MSRP
    https://www.9point8.ca/index.php?rou...tegory&path=42 - $583.70MSRP

    Canadian Pricing.

    The benefits that you mentioned, imo.. don't equate to double the price for myself.

    Also, There only seems to be a stealth routing options for the 9P8. As far as I know, the Turner Sultan does not have any internal routing. So another negative. I agree about their reliability, i've read the same reviews most likely.

    I've only heard good things about the Giant Contact SL as well, and they offering a 3 year warranty and said if there is an issue with the mechanism after, bring it in and they will most likely either fix / replace the product.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeus2121 View Post
    How did you get a Stealth Dropper installed? Is there a cable route I'm missing?...
    You're not missing anything. I did a stealth routing port with a drill and a dremel. I'm no trailblazer in this regard, it's been done by others on this board and is fairly well documented. If you're interested, a quick search will get you all of the info you need.



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  31. #31
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    I have a Turner Sultan that has 3.0 maxxis chronical tires both front and back on 35mm Carbon Rims. I have a Oneup Radr cage and 42t on a XT derailure. I recently went tubeless and for some reason the chain rubs almost all the time on the 42 cog no matter what pressure I have in the back tire.

    I have Chris king BB and 1x 2.5mm spacer on the drive side. My front crank in a race face turbine non-cinch with a 30t race face narrow wide chain Ring.

    Because I have a 1x setup my thought is that if I add another 2.5mm spacer on the drive side, I should get enough clearance for the chain not to hit the tire anymore and it shouldn't affect the chain line dramatically.

    Anyone have experience or have an understanding of the ramifications if I do this? Or would it be better to put 2.8mm tires on the bike and call it a day?

    Thank you!

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  32. #32
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    What do you use the bike for? If you like bike packing with it, then I'd say the Chronicles are good, if not, I'd say get a 2.8" with better/more aggressive knobs than the Chronicle, something like maybe the DHR2/DHF combo and really feel what velcro like traction/grip is like You have suspension F&R, so you don't need the 3.0" tyres for that, so only other reason would be as said for bike packing and float over sand and soft surfaces etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by zeus2121 View Post
    I have a Turner Sultan that has 3.0 maxxis chronical tires both front and back on 35mm Carbon Rims. I have a Oneup Radr cage and 42t on a XT derailure. I recently went tubeless and for some reason the chain rubs almost all the time on the 42 cog no matter what pressure I have in the back tire.

    I have Chris king BB and 1x 2.5mm spacer on the drive side. My front crank in a race face turbine non-cinch with a 30t race face narrow wide chain Ring.

    Because I have a 1x setup my thought is that if I add another 2.5mm spacer on the drive side, I should get enough clearance for the chain not to hit the tire anymore and it shouldn't affect the chain line dramatically.

    Anyone have experience or have an understanding of the ramifications if I do this? Or would it be better to put 2.8mm tires on the bike and call it a day?

    Thank you!

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