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  1. #1
    It's a Turner!
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    Powerful brakes needed

    Going to do some lift-assisted riding this summer on my RFX and I'm looking for a new set of brakes that are more powerful than my Juicy 7s. I am looking for brakes that I can eventually put on a Highline.

    I run a 203mm front and a 185mm rear setup (can you fit a 203mm rotor on the RFX rear?).

    I was set on the Avid Codes but then someone recommended Magura Louise. Then I saw that some people were running the Formula K24s. Now I am thinking the Formula One is it.

    Recommendations?

    1. Avid Code
    2. Magura Louise
    3. Formula One
    I didn't just drink the koolaid, I stuck my head in the punchbowl.

  2. #2
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    Formulas....problem solved!


  3. #3
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    Maguras...problem solved! (no wait - problem reopened? )

  4. #4
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    Maguras are a pain to bleed. Formula the Ones if you want to spend the money and want the best performance/weight. Hope V6 Motos and Avid Codes are nice too. Try to find people with them to try out. IS rear mounts tend to come in 200mm, not 203mm.

  5. #5
    It's a Turner!
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    Where did 200mm rotors come from? I thought you had 203mm and that was it. Now you have 140, 160, 165, 180, 185, 200, 203 and now 220. That, imo, is way out of control.
    I didn't just drink the koolaid, I stuck my head in the punchbowl.

  6. #6
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    Da One

    I'm riding the One's, problem solved. Power, Modulation, beautiful Finish etc. These are the new Gold Standard of brakes.

    Cheers,

    Kane

  7. #7
    trail fairy
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    Magura's were a pain to bleed 08 they changed, they use EBT ehich is supposedly really cool, eady to do..

    Those 3 are all awesome choices, the Codes are pretty good option or the price and Highline imo

    Magura are very refined now maybe levers might take a beating on such a bike, great on the RFX.

    Zilla just put Ones on his HL look sweet, they seem easily accessible over there, the guys on the brake forum seem onto it, Im not sure how expensive they are over there but here theyre not cheap here, but they have some smart features all adds up to a top brake set, plenty of rotor options!

    On big bikes, I weigh up the damage limitation factor, ya get big crsahes last thing ya need is expensive fixes or worse ya broke a lever in the middle of nowhere or in a race and can't ride, last year on my Saints and Codes I had some big offs, bent a wheel bent a rotor, bent bars, the levers on both sets took a hammering the gougues out the sides were evidence, yet never jammed, cost me a run ride and stood up to the punishment, just something I throw in there!

    chur
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirbikesalot
    Where did 200mm rotors come from? I thought you had 203mm and that was it. Now you have 140, 160, 165, 180, 185, 200, 203 and now 220. That, imo, is way out of control.
    203mm is needed for the PM brakes that mount directly to PM forks (like Totem) without any adapters. 200mm is used if you use an adapter, with either PM or IS. The problem is that there is no real standard. Every company has their own thing.

  9. #9
    Elitest thrill junkie
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    Because you don't see as many formulas around, it's extra-special and impressive that they finally figured out how to make a "one" peice caliper, despite shimano, hope and others doing it for a while. When you make one of the rarer disc brake systems, it's ultra-bling when you bring modern technology to your line late in the game.

    You want power? Gustavs, Hope Motos, Hope Mono6s, Avid Codes, etc.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  10. #10
    Bodhisattva
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    Because you don't see as many formulas around, it's extra-special and impressive that they finally figured out how to make a "one" peice caliper, despite shimano, hope and others doing it for a while. When you make one of the rarer disc brake systems, it's ultra-bling when you bring modern technology to your line late in the game.

    You want power? Gustavs, Hope Motos, Hope Mono6s, Avid Codes, etc.
    In terms of power, Formula Ones are comparable to Hope M6 & Motos.

    Gustavs are the most powerful brakes I've ever ridden, followed by Codes, followed by Ones/m6/motos.

    Magura Louise aren't in this discussion.
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  11. #11
    Elitest thrill junkie
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel
    In terms of power, Formula Ones are comparable to Hope M6 & Motos.
    I think that's my point. It's not that they suck, far from it, they're comparable to these other great brakes, but it seems like any time they come out with something that's "new" for them, everybody reacts like they just re-invented the wheel and they're somehow hands-down better than any other brake..ever. Anyhow, they are definitely a viable option, as are the others.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  12. #12
    trail fairy
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel
    Magura Louise aren't in this discussion.
    This just shows how subjective product experiences are, no ones right or wrong, ya need to get youre own experiences, which why I tested so many brakes last year!

    I wonder how comparbale apples for apples is with some products and ho0w theyre tested! Ive seen this in magazine tests for years.
    I tested all these brakes except Gustavs with there own rotors same sized rotors, after market rotors, bleed re beed, used braided and non braided!

    Hopes were and are a disapointment to me, esspecailly the new ones and this is on multiple sets, theyre nicely CnC'd and very bling, rotors still ping lien uts as soon as they get any heat, Magura's floating rotors Venti after taking much abuse on launch still are 2 seperate sets quiet and unwarped with over 1/1/2 hard riding! , the only ones to come close were the Moto's and theyre not any better than Codes imo or experience, I haven't tried Formula Ones and unlikely to for sometime! But Im sure they are on a winner from all reports.

    But I know rotor for rotor Magura's are right up there with possbily exception of Codes/Moto's debateable, usable power, power to the ground and control I'd rate the maggies no question! My only concern on a bigger bike is impact avoidance and durability, alloys might take the pounding better, and I wish DB and Strailine offered some lever options, not that I'd ness change em just nice to have that option. Magura always sems last for these guy's.

    Codes I know out of those lot I'd take on power value for money for an HL/DHR/ Weight I'd go Louise, they'd kill my Saints and anyothe brake apart from Codes so I know theyre up to it!

    I can run my Magura with Venti rotors on my RFX with 180mm front n rear and theyre still the best brake Ive had on the RFX for me!

    Including Codes, M6s,M4s, I wouldn't run Mono's on her theyre too much bling for me! too much rotor not required over kill if you use the Venti.

    The Moto's are very nice on my buddies IH 7point and good for him hes an ex power lifter! They have nice mod and feel power, but I'd take the Ones over them too, the whole caliper dual rotor thing put me off as I like multiple wheelsets for wheel changes, tires, muds to dry's restriced to 203mm fnr, etc..

    Anyway I for one will stand behind the Maggies all the way, that incl 06s, 07s, 08s My Magura's standard hoses killed the 07 M6/M4ss/ and my 06 M4s which had multiple leaking issues which is why I ended up on Codes. All my Hopes came with factory braided hoses still not even close, so at a loss to see how we can be so different Im 200 plus so my weight puts brakes to good tests, just shows ya, for me if it dosen't work I don't care the brand it will be off my bike so fast, same goes for the bike!

    Anyways I stand by what I said earlier! I would have looked at converting to Formula's eventually for something different but I like what Magura have done for 08, I have great support here our importer is fantastic, we ar well supported, Magura service centres so that all helps I guess!
    Though I can do my own!

    So when if I need another set they will likely be my choice, 3 sets no issues some earlier models were difficult to setup, spacers bleeding, etc now all taken care of in 07s and 08s very refined.

    Apart from my Codes no other brake has come close for all round performance, reliability, and trust, modualtion I like in a brake they get the job done oh and theyre quiet too! Magura listened to there customers each year. I like that. I do like ya can swap the pads out th top of the caliper on Forumla's without any wheel removal very nice.

    I still have Saints/Hayes shitters for the DJ ya don't need anything fancy there, but maggies on the Spot/RFX HL/DHR would require allot of thought for me, but it wouldn't be blingy I can tell ya that, just well setup
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by trailadvent
    Magura's were a pain to bleed 08 they changed, they use EBT ehich is supposedly really cool, eady to do..

    My 07 Maguras do not have the Electric Ball Tickler.
    .....

  14. #14
    trail fairy
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    Quote Originally Posted by kendogg
    My 07 Maguras do not have the Electric Ball Tickler.




    Um wondered what I'd been missing
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  15. #15
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    Now I am really confused Let's see...Formula One's are the most expensive, so they must be better, right?

    There should be a power-to-weight ratio measurement standard for brakes. These things are so subjective.

    I've actually own and tried a lot of different brakes.

    Currently I own:

    Two sets of Hayes (Mag and HFX) - reliable, on-off feeling, good parts availability
    Magura Martas - Finicky, Difficult to bleed, not for DH
    Avid Juicy 7s - Powerful, but flimsy hose, want something more powerful without being a brick
    Hope Mono M6 - Squeal like hell when hot, not as powerful as they should be, look nice though

    I realize that Magura and Hope have finally seen the light and now have adjustable caliper designs rather than using stupid washers or a fixed rotor size design like the older Hopes. Maguras were a nightmare to bleed.

    I'm still looking for the Holy Grail of brakes. At least I've found the holy grail of bikes though. Switching to another brand will teach you that - nice ride but when you brake two frames in a row, you start to think why didn't I get the Sultan?
    I didn't just drink the koolaid, I stuck my head in the punchbowl.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirbikesalot
    ...why didn't I get the Sultan?
    I hope you chose wisely...

    I have alway been a Hope whore. Had a set on all my bikes.
    I put a set of the Ones on the Sultan & it ruined me for Hopes. I put another set of Ones on my Wolfhound & only have a set of Mono M4's left on the RFX. Only one more set of One's to go....no seriously, they're that good. Really light for what they are & definitely the best brake I have owned. The adjustability is rediculous.

    Shoot Larry an email & see what his price is like


  17. #17
    FM
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    Quote Originally Posted by trailadvent
    On big bikes, I weigh up the damage limitation factor, ya get big crsahes last thing ya need is expensive fixes or worse ya broke a lever in the middle of nowhere or in a race and can't ride.....
    Bingo. Brake levers are likely to get bent or broken anytime you push your skills in a DH/FR setting. Next to der. hangers and derailuers they are the most likely to take the hit, so you don't have to.

    So let's say you're at whistler (or wherever) and you brake a lever, will you be able to ride? My experience has been, unless you are riding shimano's or hayes, the answer is no. And for those two you are looking at retail +%20 in a resort environment.

    A bunch of my riding buddies figured out that Juicy levers don't break or bend in a crash, rather the lever body brakes, requiring a total new lever and bleed.
    (sounds like they fixed this with the codes)

    I'm keen on shimanos, their levers are cold forged (not CNC'd) so they do bend and bend back easily many times, also the lever body and pivots are very durable. So I would suggest the old-school saint's.

    I really think brakes are an area where it's easy to get sucked into the bling factor, but unless you plan on riding well inside your skills at all times, the money is probably spent on something less vulnerable. Like King hubs!

  18. #18
    TLL
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirbikesalot
    Now I am really confused Let's see...Formula One's are the most expensive, so they must be better, right?

    There should be a power-to-weight ratio measurement standard for brakes. These things are so subjective.

    I'm still looking for the Holy Grail of brakes. At least I've found the holy grail of bikes though. Switching to another brand will teach you that - nice ride but when you brake two frames in a row, you start to think why didn't I get the Sultan?
    If you like the Ones but don't want to spend the $$, you might look at the Formula Megas. They have the same size piston as the Ones, though there are obviously some differences between the two, such as a two piece caliper. Less blingy, for sure, and less money.

    I have a set on order from Larry for my RFX. If I like 'em I'm dumping the XT's on my Ventana.
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  19. #19
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    Codes and a Highline

    This is my setup on my 08 large Highline. I'm pretty heavy at 215 lbs and most of the time find that the Codes are too powerful. I find that they are on / off sort of like the Saints, which I think are pretty good and strong. I'm coming from Hope m4's which have a ton of modulation so some of it is learning to brake differently with so much power. They do heat up pretty fast on steep long runs, but remain pretty quiet. Only real concern so far is that I set them up after a bleed and they feel great, but after about 5-6 downhill runs the lever feel starts getting mushy. Still working on that one, but overall I'd give them a 7.5 out of 10.

  20. #20
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    Done. Do I want 203mm or 200mm on the front? I have three 203mm rotors I can swap with, including a Braking rotor, which looks pretty cool and a bit lighter.

    Quote Originally Posted by jncarpenter
    I hope you chose wisely...

    I have alway been a Hope whore. Had a set on all my bikes.
    I put a set of the Ones on the Sultan & it ruined me for Hopes. I put another set of Ones on my Wolfhound & only have a set of Mono M4's left on the RFX. Only one more set of One's to go....no seriously, they're that good. Really light for what they are & definitely the best brake I have owned. The adjustability is rediculous.

    Shoot Larry an email & see what his price is like
    I didn't just drink the koolaid, I stuck my head in the punchbowl.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirbikesalot
    Done. Do I want 203mm or 200mm on the front? I have three 203mm rotors I can swap with, including a Braking rotor, which looks pretty cool and a bit lighter.
    If you have a fork that have PM mount (74mm) stubs (like Totem), then you just mount the brake right on without any adapters, and use the 203mm rotor. If you have a Boxxer or some other fork with IS or other mounts, then you have to use an adapter and whatever size rotor you want that fits the adapter.

  22. #22
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    For my RFX, I'm having the Hope New Mono M4 with 203 FR and 183 R.

    I had a previous set of M4 but in 180/180 and they needed more power in some long downhill sessions.

    Then an 06 pair of Magura Louise FR. great brakes, but still in 180/180 and still missing power in some dh sections.

    I've tried the new M4 and they are really great.

    but the way you run your bike is essential in the braking process! When you are smooth and anticipate your braking points everything goes better

  23. #23
    It's a Turner!
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    I have a Marz 66. 203mm it is!


    Quote Originally Posted by Cable0guy
    If you have a fork that have PM mount (74mm) stubs (like Totem), then you just mount the brake right on without any adapters, and use the 203mm rotor. If you have a Boxxer or some other fork with IS or other mounts, then you have to use an adapter and whatever size rotor you want that fits the adapter.
    I didn't just drink the koolaid, I stuck my head in the punchbowl.

  24. #24
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    I have 07 Louise BAT carbon brakes, 180/160, on my 5spot. They have very good modulation and outstanding wet conditions performance. I wouldn't call them overly powerful, however. The levers are just OK for my preferences, and the feel at the levers is a bit on the mushy side. Like others, I am not a fan of bleeding them. They Juicys, Hayes, and Shimano hydraulic brakes I have used previously were all far easier to bleed.

    If the ones have similar modulation and significantly more power than my Louise, that could be my next upgrade. How do they do in wet conditions? Pretty much most summer rides I do have wet sections: snow, perpetual wet/mud spots, stream crossings ad nauseam, etc. Add in lots of dry, dusty spots, and my brakes get the works every ride. Plus long, long descents with lots of vert.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirbikesalot
    Done. Do I want 203mm or 200mm on the front? I have three 203mm rotors I can swap with, including a Braking rotor, which looks pretty cool and a bit lighter.
    Honestly, I am using 183mm rotors and could not see the need for a 203mm on anything short of a full on DH bike. These brakes are plently strong & I am running the modulation settings almost all the way (softest lever feel). I can't imagine a 203mm on a rfx


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