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Thread: Perplexed

  1. #1
    trail fairy
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    Perplexed

    So Ive been looking through the databases just checking out peeps awesome builds and kits and some interesting observations on the newer models.

    Focusing on the RFX!
    I believe imo anyways for what its worth balancing out suspension tech front n rear gives the best performance and balance to the frame jmo/experience note! though Ive been thinking of trying a Roco TST next year on my RFX thought it may not happen just thinkin as I have lots of time to do so, I have no fork for it at mo sold my 66rc2x.

    So RFXs 07/08s

    Frame comes standard with RP23..

    Fork choices !

    Seems the Fox 36 is well ahead as the new choice for the new RFXs at present, quite a few Lyriks in there as well mainly Uturns coils which is good to see as Im a fan of the Uturn/maxle and RS damping, never thought I'd say that but the Sram RS is a different beasty really, Sram is still rider owned I believe and not a Share floated company, we plug for those guys!

    So Fox the Talas seems to be most popular - followed by Vans
    RS - Lyrik Uturn and some 2steps
    Marz - not so many a few 55s but I think new models and anticipation of probs was justified unfotunately
    No Wotons - I may have missed ?

    Pity Magura don't do a coil Wotan that would be interesting!

    Current Wotan, pity not more I know this fork is highly regarded and I was impressed with it, though for me I'd like to stay coil on the RFX since I have the Spot in my stable thinking to the future!

    Finaly to the Point of my post lol..
    What is also interesting is that there are many who

    1: keep and match the RP23 with a coil fork!
    2: replace the RP23 and chose to put an air fork up front
    3: many have RP23 and a 160mm air fork up front talas/float RS 2step
    4: few have gone coil front and rear.

    Me I'd choose 4 esspecailly as more than one bike in stable, thats just my pref and I find air still comes up short for me for my wieght for small bump compliance and big hit high speed hits!

    My Pike is as good as found to date for an air fork, even comparing it to the 08 talas I had some limited time on which I felt was pretty good compared to the older models, so hard to give fair report from me there, but rider wieght/style/setup has a big effect too though a good bud of mine had this then a float on his Comencal mini DH similar setup to my RFX and found the same thing as Ive described now runs a Van 36rc2 hes stoked.

    What perplexes/confuses me is why go to the trouble of speccing a coil fork if keeping air in the rear, or even more confusing to me is replacing the RP23 which its supplied with to a coil shock and speccing an air fork up front!

    Now Im not saying anyone is wrong, or that its bad just Ive never got that, completely makes no sense to me!

    Air works best with air imo [my experience with my style weight and terrain and all other variables I guess, so its subjective] and coil is best with coil, if you have setup your suspension, matched your componentry etc!

    Just some random thoughts Im expressng out loud so don't read this and get all defensive and take out of context cause you may have very good reasons and validity for it, hence why Im perplexed and posing my observations!

    Drum roll, oh and newbies spend some time in the databases as well as asking posts on forks etc there's allot of good detailed info in there as well as pictures to visulise how ya potentail steed will look and fit you, seat/stack heights etc etc note its a guide so don't be a lemming and many change things after a few rides, plus Vets update ya mods changes so we can see if ya progress ya ride after some time etc due to improvement in skills/or just postion etc.

    Yo
    Last edited by trailadvent; 05-02-2008 at 03:09 PM.
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  2. #2
    trail fairy
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    More Perplexed

    Well I come back nd no one responds to my serious post!

    Sheesh truly lost! maybe I have confused everyone!
    I wasn't looking to stirr anything up, but I sorta expected some flaming or barbe queing for mentioning it, yet nothing

    Weird, maybe we are all suspensioned out

    So I'll rsvp to myself to save myself some embarressment of atleast one response even if it is me to me
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  3. #3
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    Pity response

    Just kidding.

    Air vs. coil, hmmm. This has been hashed out quite a bit but I'll throw out a few of my thoughts. I originally had a Romic coil on the rear of my Spot. I now have a Pushed RP3 and prefer its performance in every way, much lighter too.

    Due to reliabilty issues I have paired the RP3 up with many forks over the years, air, coil, and coil/air. With the exception of a Marz AMSL air fork that I could never get tuned to my liking, all of the other forks felt balanced with the RP3 after some tuning whether they were air, or coil, or coil/air.

  4. #4
    fried stuff with cheese
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    Maybe we're the only two on here today.

    I kind of gave my two cents in the other post but in a nutshell.

    I was hoping, praying, needing the 55 to be the turn around fork. I had Ronny at Marz tear mine open before I even got it and make sure it was up to snuff. It's very promising but they don't have the bugs worked out. Hear that they are very close though....

    I'm lucky enough to have a couple of friends who are fork Zen masters. Between the two of them you couldn't get more insight into Zoke, RS, or Fox. I'm pretty sure that either of them could tear down, tune, and rebuild a fork blindfolded and drunk on beer. Wait...other than the blindfold I think they have.

    Anyway, I would go for the Fox if not for the fact that their forks although performing better are getting more and more complex (while I'm getting more stupid) and getting parts out of them for cheap is tough...so I hear.

    RS - Had a Lyrik Coil U-turn and liked it. Had it on my 06 RFX. I was afraid that it would be too heavy and tall for a trail bike RFX (again I'll reference my stupidity). If the 55 mod falls through I will be back on a Lyrik most likely. Leaning towards a two step only for the ability to quickly drop the travel for steep climbs. This by the way is the only area where I feel my 08 RFX is inferior to my Spot. I just just find that the front end on the RFX (when running 150-160mm on the 55) likes to wander when the going gets steep. I also like the simplicity of the simplicity of the Motion Control over the Mission Control. I'm leaning towards a 2 step air with Motion control now.

    Marz - Want to love em for air but still not able. Coil? Yup. Putting the RC2x cart in the 55 might be the answer....we shall see. Seeing that you have time I would wait to see how this plays out. I wish patients was one of my virtues but unfortunately it is not. Unless I can get solid word out of Marz that the mod can be done very soon I'll be jumping ship and someone will get a great deal on an almost new 55.

    Wotan - No exp with it...yet. I've got a friend with one that's just waiting to be tried out but the fact that you have to run a big rotor (203mm) with it????? Or maybe we just need an adaptor..not sure.... but that may take it out of the running.
    Egg

  5. #5
    Natl. Champ DH Poser/Hack
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    i just saw this so sue me.

    i too think shock spring types are better off matched yet the new breed of air dampers seem to be quite close to the feel of coil from what i hear and the little bit ive tried. admitedly, my only experience was too long ago with a custom tuned vanilla r on the burner 8 years ago and the dhxc which i disliked, both run with air and coil forks alike. ive also got good time on a rp23/float 36 combo which i currently ride and dig and a float ava/amsl pairing that also worked very well.

    being a small guy whos reletively smooth and doesnt push the big envelope too much, im sure it can be said that i can get away with more (or less) than the dedicated go big crowd. also i dont work in the industry currently or make as much as i did so the killer deals dont come my way often and i cant swing the ugi like before. all that bein said, weight is a bigger factor to me than bling and the latest part. therefore i stay with air/air. and dont see that changin in the next week. gotta admit im interested in some of these custom sized coils for the rfx that slacken the h/a and lower the b/bkt for the semi local dh race.

    when i built my rfx i was convinced i needed to sell the 36 and get a 55. i came very close but now im glad it didnt work out cuz this thing is sweet. i still want a travel adjust fork but i think ill stick with the fox stuff when i do.
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  6. #6
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    I am looking to try a wotan on the next trailbike I get. 203mm is the only size that will fit. Heard rave reviews from over 50 riders I have spoken to about this fork. CS has also been very good from what I hear.

  7. #7
    fried stuff with cheese
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    That's what I thought...203mm rotor. No thanks. I ran those with my Maggie brakes and they warped if you looked at them wrong.
    Egg

  8. #8
    TLL
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    all about weight

    Interesting post TA. Really don't know if I can add much, but just want to point out that some RFX builds run air in the rear so as to keep the weight down. I also think lighter riders can run the air rear/coil front and have the best of both worlds, light weight and plushness.

    Alternately, coil rear/air front is an ideal Clyde setup, if you can find the right spring for the rear shock. It is the route I will probably go with on my RFX, since my experience so far with coil forks has not been good (at 250 I am over the limit for most mfg springs) though I have not tried a 66 yet.

    Just some random musings . . . .
    Hadley rear hub service here and here.

  9. #9
    Team Blindspot
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    Quote Originally Posted by trailadvent
    Well I come back nd no one responds to my serious post!

    Sheesh truly lost! maybe I have confused everyone!
    I wasn't looking to stirr anything up, but I sorta expected some flaming or barbe queing for mentioning it, yet nothing

    Weird, maybe we are all suspensioned out

    So I'll rsvp to myself to save myself some embarressment of atleast one response even if it is me to me

    I think it was very well written


    P.S. I run Lyrik 2-step, Pushed Van R in back. RP23 is a backup.
    Astigmatic Visionary

  10. #10
    Natl. Champ DH Poser/Hack
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    Quote Originally Posted by Locotiki
    they warped if you looked at them wrong.
    dont forget, they tossed ya otb 1st unless yer 220 plus and decending mt olympus. rotor overkill for most riders.
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  11. #11
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    Different experience

    Quote Originally Posted by cactuscorn
    rotor overkill for most riders.
    I run a Wotan on an Ellsworth Moment with Magura Louise BAT brakes. They have been exceptional. Never wanting for more power, never wanting for more feel. They do what they do with no fuss. I would not hesitate to buy the fork or the brakes again.

  12. #12
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    yer not most riders. rumor has it yer a bit of a stud.
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  13. #13
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    Rumours of my studliness have been greatly exaggerated.

  14. #14
    Natl. Champ DH Poser/Hack
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    not from the stories ive heard and the pics ive seen. peg the studometer then. get the gang together and take a drive without the bikes. theres a cat who could use the visit from his old pals right about now.
    No, I'm NOT back!

  15. #15
    trail fairy
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    Whew woke up and bam, easy off is in motion

    Chur..
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  16. #16
    trail fairy
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyN
    Just kidding.

    Air vs. coil, hmmm. This has been hashed out quite a bit but I'll throw out a few of my thoughts. I originally had a Romic coil on the rear of my Spot. I now have a Pushed RP3 and prefer its performance in every way, much lighter too.

    Due to reliabilty issues I have paired the RP3 up with many forks over the years, air, coil, and coil/air. With the exception of a Marz AMSL air fork that I could never get tuned to my liking, all of the other forks felt balanced with the RP3 after some tuning whether they were air, or coil, or coil/air.
    cheers
    Yeah just interesting to see this air and coil mix, I have no issue with air comps! I am a fan on some rides frames..

    Good points AN
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  17. #17
    trail fairy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Locotiki
    Maybe we're the only two on here today.

    I kind of gave my two cents in the other post but in a nutshell.

    Wotan - No exp with it...yet. I've got a friend with one that's just waiting to be tried out but the fact that you have to run a big rotor (203mm) with it????? Or maybe we just need an adaptor..not sure.... but that may take it out of the running.
    Cheers bud I like your thinking allot!!

    Yeah main point fo this was just my obs in the data bases of allot of mxing rather than matching!

    To me as important as the fork or shock type, but this is my own personal prefference! not what is necessarily right for others!
    I like my rears and fronts to be either progressive depending on riding/frame type style or Linear!

    So I try or prefer for example my Spot to be air front and rear (cavet: if it was my only bike it may be coil)
    My RFX above to be coil, I like the reliability for the hard riding, set and forget, big hit yet small bump feel, which at my weight) works best for me.

    I was most perplexed why people would replace the air shock supplied and then install air up front! that got me if ya liked coil in th rear I woulda thought it would be same for the fork!

    But then as others have said its a close call with some models and if ya don't find that extreme at both ends maybe it doen't matter, then there's rider wieght yada yada all factors I have not split out other wise this post would b the longest know to homerville

    Cheers L
    Chur
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  18. #18
    trail fairy
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    Quote Originally Posted by cactuscorn
    i just saw this so sue me.

    i too think shock spring types are better off matched yet the new breed of air dampers seem to be quite close to the feel of coil from what i hear and the little bit ive tried. admitedly, my only experience was too long ago with a custom tuned vanilla r on the burner 8 years ago and the dhxc which i disliked, both run with air and coil forks alike. ive also got good time on a rp23/float 36 combo which i currently ride and dig and a float ava/amsl pairing that also worked very well.

    being a small guy whos reletively smooth and doesnt push the big envelope too much, im sure it can be said that i can get away with more (or less) than the dedicated go big crowd. also i dont work in the industry currently or make as much as i did so the killer deals dont come my way often and i cant swing the ugi like before. all that bein said, weight is a bigger factor to me than bling and the latest part. therefore i stay with air/air. and dont see that changin in the next week. gotta admit im interested in some of these custom sized coils for the rfx that slacken the h/a and lower the b/bkt for the semi local dh race.

    when i built my rfx i was convinced i needed to sell the 36 and get a 55. i came very close but now im glad it didnt work out cuz this thing is sweet. i still want a travel adjust fork but i think ill stick with the fox stuff when i do.
    Forgiven

    I was hoping you would chime in as yer a pefect example of waht Im saying for air, with your weight I think ya got the perfect setup

    Personally I would stay with the float, do u really need ta, no move ya bum fwd on that saddle lad improve the tech and keep ya fingers on the handle grips that will help ya climb better than doing an easy rider impression before that big climb, omo

    I here ya on the bling factor as well loud and clear like u ugi is not in my vocab, Im all about what works too old to worry about what it looks like not like y watch it while ya ride anyways..

    Chur CC
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  19. #19
    trail fairy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Playdeep
    I am looking to try a wotan on the next trailbike I get. 203mm is the only size that will fit. Heard rave reviews from over 50 riders I have spoken to about this fork. CS has also been very good from what I hear.
    The small time I got to play with it I was very impressed, Ive seen it in action
    its a unique fork, I hate all the remote levers (other wise I would have looked at it last year for sure)

    Its the most coil like of any r fork Ive tried, it is the meanest looking mutha Ive seen in a fork! I wish they made a "KISS" Coil version of it (kiss Keep it simple stupid)

    203mm I don't see the issue, not much weight penalty u weanie's put a 160mm in rear fixed..
    yo!
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  20. #20
    trail fairy
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    Quote Originally Posted by TLL
    Interesting post TA. Really don't know if I can add much, but just want to point out that some RFX builds run air in the rear so as to keep the weight down. I also think lighter riders can run the air rear/coil front and have the best of both worlds, light weight and plushness.

    Alternately, coil rear/air front is an ideal Clyde setup, if you can find the right spring for the rear shock. It is the route I will probably go with on my RFX, since my experience so far with coil forks has not been good (at 250 I am over the limit for most mfg springs) though I have not tried a 66 yet.

    Just some random musings . . . .
    Um at your weight definitley try a Zoke, maybe if ya can find a 06 66rc2x!

    Have you tried aftrmarket supsension companies like Push / Stendec / alvalanche etc to get alternate springs! as you must sacrifice some small bump compliance to get the spring rate right for you?

    Understand the weight issue, and agree, just stil not sure that the sacrifice in not matching and balancing front and rear maximises the ride capability and overall performance!

    I might be over stating it as it will depend what end of the extremes youre riding at, general trail AM most people me incl may not know any better, I just know the differences from having had 4 bikes in th stable last ear and the differences I got from suspension feel on different rides or similar locations! for me interesting results, hence why I raise this post after observations the databases!

    Like your thoughts though chur TLL
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  21. #21
    trail fairy
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    Quote Originally Posted by S-Works
    I think it was very well written


    P.S. I run Lyrik 2-step, Pushed Van R in back. RP23 is a backup.



    Um es I forgot the pushed factor this brings the 2 closer I suspect though never having ridden a pushed fork, I can't offer any experience!

    Nice SW

    Chur bro
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  22. #22
    trail fairy
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    Quote Originally Posted by cactuscorn
    not from the stories ive heard and the pics ive seen. peg the studometer then. get the gang together and take a drive without the bikes. theres a cat who could use the visit from his old pals right about now.
    And very humble

    I have to agree with the Momentus though the Maggi with 203 rotor is fine I ran 185 and 203 up front on my RFX no issue for me, however I do lik doing nose wheelies

    I guess like the suspension, so many varible sfor many different styles of riders, we are all different and like different things so its ony conjecture!

    I do find though the Maggie has very good modulation and I like my brakes like my bikes, cars and women to be powerful but with good feel

    Chur
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  23. #23
    Anytime. Anywhere.
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    Well I weigh 220 but I don't see how the 203mm rotor would be a problem. I've been using Juicy's with 203mm up front on my Spot and RFX and love the feel and power. One finger is always enough even when I did 14 back to back lift runs at at Panorama, BC last summer. Not overkill if you are running a 6" through axle fork and obviously Magura feels this way as well. You'll make up the xtra weight by not using an adaptor. If your rotors warp I would have to question the quality of the rotor. I've been over the bars plenty, especially when I ran 120mm stems, but It's never been because of too much braking power.
    I got some bad ideas in my head.

  24. #24
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    TLL quotes:
    Really don't know if I can add much, but just want to point out that some RFX builds run air in the rear so as to keep the weight down. I also think lighter riders can run the air rear/coil front and have the best of both worlds, light weight and plushness.

    This is pretty much the reason why I run an air shock and a coil fork. This set up suits me fine where I ride.

    I plan on getting a coil shock for some resort riding in the summer. Who knows - I may change my tune about the air shock and keep the coil on the rear after some rides with it and keep the RP23 as a backup.

  25. #25
    trail fairy
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    Cheers guys good to get some understanding of ya ride style, and what ya requirements are!! make's allot more sense, as I said my opinion is not more right or wrong just what I want from my bikes, and based on my own experiences with supsenion, moto days included! Eveyone is different!

    Tis good though as numbers and specc alone dosen't determine how ya ride and this just proves it, hopefully new people speccing there bikes will gain more knowledge and understanding I know Im getting some good info from you guys

    Chur ta..
    Last edited by trailadvent; 05-04-2008 at 06:00 PM.
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