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  1. #1
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    Options for Czar bottom bracket

    Ask a Mechanic: Bar Tape Tips & PF30/Shimano Bottom Bracket Adapter Options | Art?s Cyclery Blog

    Press Fit Bottom Brackets | Chris King Precision Components


    I am assembling parts for my build. I am going with XTR so looking at options for PressFit to 24mm spindle. Found the above article from Art's and Chris King's new offering. Since the cranks come with shimano BSA cups what do guys think of these options? I have no experience with adaptors but know they can be a PITA and creak. Appreciate hearing your thoughts.

  2. #2
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    BB30 Conversion Kit BB - 73mm

    This looks interesting too.

  3. #3
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    Word on the trail is that the Shimano crew uses the Praxis set up when riding bikes with PF30 shells. We have had good luck with the SRAM bearings with Wheels Mfg. reducers and still smooth after several months. Of course if you live in a wet area, King cannot be overlooked, their stuff is tough.

    I don't get that long of life out of GXP bearings and have had no better or worse life out of the test Czars with PF30 even though some pajama pundits have been saying PF or BB stuff don't hold up as well. Your results may vary


    DT

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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes View Post
    Word on the trail is that the Shimano crew uses the Praxis set up when riding bikes with PF30 shells. We have had good luck with the SRAM bearings with Wheels Mfg. reducers and still smooth after several months. Of course if you live in a wet area, King cannot be overlooked, their stuff is tough.

    I don't get that long of life out of GXP bearings and have had no better or worse life out of the test Czars with PF30 even though some pajama pundits have been saying PF or BB stuff don't hold up as well. Your results may vary


    DT
    Thanks DT. After some more reading, I ended up ordering the Praxis over the weekend. Sounds like I made a good choice. The design looks really solid.

  5. #5
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    Praxis looks like the cat's meow. Please report back on how it works out. There doesn't seem to be a lot of first-hand information, so any observations will be appreciated.

    I'm running the Wheels Mfg system, which has Enduro Engineering bearings. It fit perfectly, and has been running smoothly for a bit over 50 hours, so I'd say so far, so good.
    The drive towards achievement and success is the motive power of civilization.

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    Changing Bearings in Praxis BB

    I thought I would chime in on my experience with the Praxis PF30 - 87 BB on my Czar.

    I had a bearing failure due to water after about 2 months of riding. When I opened up the BB, it had 1/8 inch of water in there.

    Praxis covered the BB under warranty, sending me a new unit before even receiving my broken unit back. Excellent customer service.

    Well I decided to not take advantage of the warranty so that I could experiment on the old BB. I wanted to be able to change out the cartridge bearings on my own.

    I called Enduro Online store directly. They set me up with their bearing puller/press called the BRT-003 (It is not yet on their web site). The tool is well made. Small glitch in that it won't quite pull the bearing all the way off the Praxis drive side. Fairly easy to get around though.

    The bearing that Praxis uses are Enduro 2437 LLB. They are fairly standard steel bearings. Easy to find tons of upgrades to that bearing. I ordered some of Enduro's super high end bearings called the XD-15. They are angular, fully re-greasable, and have a FAR superior seal system to prevent water incursion. They supposedly last years without any grease (really!), so if you grease them supposedly last forever.

    The XD-15s do fit in the Praxis BB shell, but I have yet take a ride to decide whether I like them. There is a ton of drag from the seals. Maybe they will break in?

    Anyway, Pros and Cons of Praxis:

    With the proper tools, it is easy to change out the bearings on the Praxis BB (Voids Warranty!) There are a variety of bearings available in the 24 x 37 x 7 size (and lots of disagreement whether higher end bearings are worth it - you decide).

    Quality construction.

    Great customer service.

    When installing in the Czar, I had to wrench REALLY hard to seat the drive side. I hate wrenching that hard on a bike, and even though I used anti-seize, I fear I will never be able to remove it if necessary.

    The praxis seems to be pretty prone to water incursion.
    Last edited by edroid; 09-01-2013 at 10:18 AM.

  7. #7
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    My Czar frame has been purchased. Piecing together the parts to build and I want to use my Shimano cranks.

    Hopefully this is not resurrecting too old of a thread. Pricing the setup Kosmo uses is about $80 delivered from Artscyclery.com (have not scoured the internet for a better deal yet).

    The SRAM bearing with Wheels MFG Reducers that DT mentioned is about $70 to $75.

    And the Praxis is about $90.

    Having to do it all again which would you go for based on your Czar riding time and durability of the bearings and reducer combo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by danK View Post
    My Czar frame has been purchased. Piecing together the parts to build and I want to use my Shimano cranks.

    Hopefully this is not resurrecting too old of a thread. Pricing the setup Kosmo uses is about $80 delivered from Artscyclery.com (have not scoured the internet for a better deal yet).

    The SRAM bearing with Wheels MFG Reducers that DT mentioned is about $70 to $75.

    And the Praxis is about $90.

    Having to do it all again which would you go for based on your Czar riding time and durability of the bearings and reducer combo.
    My Wheels Mfg/Enduro adapter got grouchy/draggy/bad feeling pretty quickly. Then the drag went away, then came back, went away, and came back again.

    Replaced with the Praxis unit. Very impressed, and so far, so good for several months and a lot of riding. Pretty impressive engineering has gone into this system, and it has not made a peep yet, and still spins as freely as a pinwheel in a hurricane.
    The drive towards achievement and success is the motive power of civilization.

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    Alrighty then, scratch one option off the list!

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    Quote Originally Posted by kosmo View Post
    My Wheels Mfg/Enduro adapter got grouchy/draggy/bad feeling pretty quickly. Then the drag went away, then came back, went away, and came back again.

    Replaced with the Praxis unit. Very impressed, and so far, so good for several months and a lot of riding. Pretty impressive engineering has gone into this system, and it has not made a peep yet, and still spins as freely as a pinwheel in a hurricane.
    + 1 on the Praxis. 600 miles on mine with zero issues and creak free and spins freely. Great, solid design.

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    Looking into this same issue for my incoming Czar. I usually go with King because even though you pay a bit more up front, they last a long time and with the grease tool maintenance is a breeze. Does the Praxis offer anything substantially better than the King? I admit I'm not up to speed on press fit BBs. Looks like I will still have to use an adapter with the King - does the Praxis eliminate this need?

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    Quote Originally Posted by chunkylover53 View Post
    Looks like I will still have to use an adapter with the King - does the Praxis eliminate this need?
    No adapter with the Praxis. The Shimano crank installs in the normal fashion. I was skeptical. It installed perfectly.

    You gotta pull pretty darn hard on the BB tools to get it installed correctly. It really does have a "hard" stop. No torque specs necessary.
    The drive towards achievement and success is the motive power of civilization.

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    Thinking of using a RaceFace Next SL 1x instead of XTR with Praxis Conversion.

    Related to a post I have in Drivetrain..... those with King PF bb, would you do it again or go for the Enduro XD-15?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes View Post
    Word on the trail is that the Shimano crew uses the Praxis set up when riding bikes with PF30 shells.
    The Praxis was the only PF30 conversion bottom bracket that I could run on my carbon fiber road bike that didn't end up creaking with my Shimano Dura Ace cranks. Granted it was a road bike application rather than a MTB but I put a sh!t load of miles on that bottom bracket without a single problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by westin View Post
    Thinking of using a RaceFace Next SL 1x instead of XTR with Praxis Conversion.
    I've got a set of Race Face Next SL direct-mount single ring cranks ordered that are intended for my Czar but I'm unsure of the available bottom bracket options that are compatible with their larger diameter spindle.

  15. #15
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    i am also going to run a next sl direct mount on my Czar. I was planning on the Praxis set up, after seeing them at interbike. I didn't even think of the larger spindle on the sl. Wonder if the bearings on the Praxis shell can be swapped out for ones that will work with the Next Sl.
    "Live dangerously and you live right."
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  16. #16
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    Any PF30 bb will work.
    I'm deciding between King and XD-15.

    Quote Originally Posted by CrashTheDOG View Post
    I've got a set of Race Face Next SL direct-mount single ring cranks ordered that are intended for my Czar but I'm unsure of the available bottom bracket options that are compatible with their larger diameter spindle.

  17. #17
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    I don't see anything at the Praxis site to make a Praxis Conversion go back to a PF30: Praxis Works | Standard BB

    I'm probably going to sell my new-in-box Praxis Conversion since the Next SL 1x and S Works crank have come into the picture.

    Quote Originally Posted by kreater View Post
    i am also going to run a next sl direct mount on my Czar. I was planning on the Praxis set up, after seeing them at interbike. I didn't even think of the larger spindle on the sl. Wonder if the bearings on the Praxis shell can be swapped out for ones that will work with the Next Sl.

  18. #18
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    Thanks for the information guys. Just ordered the Enduro XD-15 PF30 to use with the Race Face Next SL Direct Mount. This will be my first mtn. bike in 15+ years that doesn't have a stitch of Chris King on it.

  19. #19
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    in the same boat....so press fit xd-15 with the 30mm bearing kit?
    "Live dangerously and you live right."
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  20. #20
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    Yeah.

  21. #21
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    Race Face makes an awesome PF30 BB that works with 30mm spindle cranks...

    DT

  22. #22
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    DT, what is the typical width of the BB shell on the Czar?

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    From Turner Bikes - Czar FAQs.... A: The Czar utilizes a PressFit 30 bb (PF30). The bottom bracket shell is 73mm wide.

  24. #24
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    Thanks.

  25. #25
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    i am a bit confused, please be patient. so the PF30 is what is required, some BB's seem to be what I would call zero stack, with no external bearing cups. The race face has external and is press fit. The enduro is external and seems to be pressed in like a conventional bb tool, with the centre of the sleeve being threaded. the praxis, if it had worked with my Next crank has a splined interface that expands while being threaded in. I am using a Next crank, don't want a creaky BB, best solution. Sorry for being a neby about this, but the PF thing is all new to me.
    Thanks.
    "Live dangerously and you live right."
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