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  1. #1
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    offset bushings vs. works headset

    question about dropping the bb on my bike(s)...2010 spot and 08 rfx. Can those who have done either the offset bushing or the works hs, comment on your experience. I don't necessarily need a slacked out trail bike, but would like to sit into the bike more and be a tad lower, like my HL spot. read some threads, but honestly it just gets more confusing. thanks!

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  2. #2
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    I did both on my red 09 DW spot with a 160 Lyrik fork. I loved the 1 degree works headset, it made no noises and worked great. The eccentric bushing I made myself in the machine shop. It too worked great but I suggest you really check your clearances like at the back of the seat tube and the swingarm to under seat tube rib contact. This is where mine contacted but it may have been the 09 to 2011 swingarm warranty mixed bag of parts that caused these interferences. Also, the ecc bushing makes the DW linkage need or want to need a bigger than stock volume shock can(i.e. HV can with almost full of spacers). But I didn't quite get to the happy setup before I got the 2013 front. And the Pushed rear shock is tuned for the stock DW anyway. Now RFX shoul handle the ecc bushing way better since the links are way longer and the suspension geometry shouldn't be quite as effected.

  3. #3
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    thanks suspman. When you put on the works HS, did you feel a noticable change in bb? There is a 7.75 coil shock (vs 7.875) that we have for rfx without interference issues afaik. Geometry feels great with it, I just u turn the lyrik down a bit. I will order the bushings for the rfx and give it a go, I want to propedal climbs. On the DW, don't want to bugger the suspension tho.

  4. #4
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    No I didn't notice the bb change as much as the head angle. I'm sure it came down some but not enough to be crazy, it prob didn't do much since the lower stack may have increase from the King lower I was using. The rfx sounds like a super high bb if your doing bushings in addition to the short shock. Just remember every bit you shorten the shock the rear wheel gets lifted that distance times the leverage ratio of the suspension w a 2" stroke and 6" travel its a 3:1 so if you had that the short shock lowered the bb by .375" already. I think you have more stroke and the ratio would be less and the bb drop would be slightly less though. Have you tried a shorter stack lower cup? I used the Crank bros lower and its a few mm shorter. With a tall and raked out fork the littlest bit matters and brings back under you and into spec. Good luck.

  5. #5
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    def won't run the bushings on the coil, that feels good, just heavy and no pp. only using bushings on the stock rp3. Now they both should fell similar. I will consider the bottom cup for the dw.thanks for the info.

  6. #6
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    No problem.

  7. #7
    Moosehead
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    Would please like to hear other's input on various anglesets.

    I tried the highly recommended Saar angleset on my '10 Spot with 150 Fox Float and did not get along well at all. It made the steering wonky enough that I lost confidence on descents and got blown off the trail a few times. Same effect at speed or slow, weighting front or sitting back. never figured it out. It was hard to tell if it was "floppy" or somehow binding the steerer but in either case it was disappointing enough to go back to stock, happily. It could have been my hamfisted wrenching but the install was double checked.

    Any comments would be appreciated.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by moosehead View Post
    Would please like to hear other's input on various anglesets.

    I tried the highly recommended Saar angleset on my '10 Spot with 150 Fox Float and did not get along well at all. It made the steering wonky enough that I lost confidence on descents and got blown off the trail a few times. Same effect at speed or slow, weighting front or sitting back. never figured it out. It was hard to tell if it was "floppy" or somehow binding the steerer but in either case it was disappointing enough to go back to stock, happily. It could have been my hamfisted wrenching but the install was double checked.

    Any comments would be appreciated.
    I ran a Works Component's 2 degree heaset w/o any issues. Sounds like your bike was too slack ??? A binding headset would be detected riding or not.

  9. #9
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    Keen, What did you put the 2 degree headset on and what fork and travel and ec or zs cups? What do you thing your head angle is at and is it too slack if in the 66's?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by suspman View Post
    Keen, What did you put the 2 degree headset on and what fork and travel and ec or zs cups? What do you thing your head angle is at and is it too slack if in the 66's?
    KHS Flagstaff 29er. 120mm Manitou Tower fork W/ ZS cups. I had a 67.5* HA. My current 29er has a 66* and I like it.

  11. #11
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    So would you say 66 is too slack for climbing at all? I have a Turner 5 spot w a 160 fork and 140 rear, but I still need to climb and don't want it to feel to floppy or slow me down even more climbing.

  12. #12
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    Kinda, but do it

    Quote Originally Posted by suspman View Post
    So would you say 66 is too slack for climbing at all? I have a Turner 5 spot w a 160 fork and 140 rear, but I still need to climb and don't want it to feel to floppy or slow me down even more climbing.
    I've been rocking a 1.5 works hs on my 11' Spot for almost a year now with a Lyrik U-turn. It gives me an approx 66 ha. You could feel a little wander in the front if it's not weighted correctly, but that's why I got the U-turn. I usually climb with the fork at 160, but more recently I crank it down to 140 for climbing. Plus, slack is hip

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by suspman View Post
    So would you say 66 is too slack for climbing at all? I have a Turner 5 spot w a 160 fork and 140 rear, but I still need to climb and don't want it to feel to floppy or slow me down even more climbing.
    I don't have an issue but depending on your riding style, cockpit setup & climbing preferances??? Lets just say it won't be any easier up but might be better down - tradeofff?.

  14. #14
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    Hmm, rhynohead, are you using the 1.5 works 44mm flush bottom cup at 160 and what did it put your bottom bracket at? Also does it feel like the front axle is way out there now?

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by suspman View Post
    Hmm, rhynohead, are you using the 1.5 works 44mm flush bottom cup at 160 and what did it put your bottom bracket at? Also does it feel like the front axle is way out there now?
    flush bottom cup to keep the front end low and maintain the 66 ha I was looking for. BB at 12.75 and that's with big ass schwable HD's. The bike did feel quicker with a 140 on it, but I like the way it's set up for the way I like to ride (like a hack)

    1 5 Degree EC44 - ZS44 - Angle Headset Semi-Integrated type

  16. #16
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    Yeah that is the one I was looking too to get the max slack and lowest bb. But that seems really low on the bb is that correct? I have my 2013 with a ZS44 headset at 160 Lyrik it was at 67.5 deg and 13.75 I think. Then at 170mm now and 67deg it is like 13.875. I want low but I may smack everything with a 12.75 bb. I know the Burner proto had low 13's and they raised it for pedal strike reasons. What's the deal?

  17. #17
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    update with proshox bushing

    Installed the proshox bushing on the 09 dw spot and the 08 rfx (one bushing each). With the proshox bushings, remember to install them on the top of the shock, they won't fit on the bottom. I think it's because of the combination of size small frame and max offset at 3mm. Anyhow, on the dw i think it's just what I wanted. The rfx, on the otherhand, may need another one, it still feels a bit higher than i like. I emailed and asked if he'd make a 2mm bushing for me. thanks for all the great info.

    Quote Originally Posted by suspman View Post
    Yeah that is the one I was looking too to get the max slack and lowest bb. But that seems really low on the bb is that correct? I have my 2013 with a ZS44 headset at 160 Lyrik it was at 67.5 deg and 13.75 I think. Then at 170mm now and 67deg it is like 13.875. I want low but I may smack everything with a 12.75 bb. I know the Burner proto had low 13's and they raised it for pedal strike reasons. What's the deal?

  18. #18
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    offset bushings vs. works headset-imag1505.jpgHi guys, I actually just had great luck with my 2013 DW Spot. I was running my lyrik at 160 with an EC44 lower and ZS44 upper, it was pretty good but at 67deg and 14". I wanted lower and a tad slacker. So I went for it and got the Works Components ZS44 EC44 1.5deg (the max they do w one ZS cup). Anyway its at 65.8deg HA and 13.625" BB with the ZS cup on bottom @ 160mm still. It is so stable and fast now its amazing!!! I do feel the cockpit length change but it felt a touch long stock, but also being on an 09 DW front and with the Works Components 1 1/8" 1deg headset I was used to the similar sized cockpit and now I am happy. It actually seems slower because it so stable. I confirmed on STRAVA though, everywhere faster. That makes me happy, instead of trying to keep this thing upright so much I can focus on line choice and launch point. Haha. I did like the eccentric shock eye on my old 09 DW lower but it affected the ramp up too much, these short links are affected a lot by link/shock geo changes.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by jewels View Post
    Installed the proshox bushing on the 09 dw spot and the 08 rfx (one bushing each). With the proshox bushings, remember to install them on the top of the shock, they won't fit on the bottom. I think it's because of the combination of size small frame and max offset at 3mm. Anyhow, on the dw i think it's just what I wanted. The rfx, on the otherhand, may need another one, it still feels a bit higher than i like. I emailed and asked if he'd make a 2mm bushing for me. thanks for all the great info.
    So I've got a 3mm offset bushing coming in the mail and was planning on mounting on the bottom of my RFX (think it's an 07 maybe 08). Are you saying there might be an issue with the fit/clearance of the shock in the bottom mount? Figured this would be the best since the lower doesn't pivot as much as the top mount but if it doesn't fit well then...

  20. #20
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    I think you're right Frank...I got bikes all jumbled up. Not to mention my brain is a little jumbled up too. Thanks for the info.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsittman View Post
    So I've got a 3mm offset bushing coming in the mail and was planning on mounting on the bottom of my RFX (think it's an 07 maybe 08). Are you saying there might be an issue with the fit/clearance of the shock in the bottom mount? Figured this would be the best since the lower doesn't pivot as much as the top mount but if it doesn't fit well then...
    I am referrering to both bikes, yes the 3mm doesn't fit on the bottom due to the shock body hitting the frame. BUT, as i said, I think it's because the frame size is small. I initially had in mounted on the bottom, thinking the same as you, then just flipped the shock body over. And model years may vary, i have an 08 small. I rode the dw yesterday and 1 offset was just right for me.

  22. #22
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    Ah...gotcha jewels. I have a large but I'll be sure to check the clearances through the full shock stroke. I've got a RS Monarch Plus on the way too so I have a couple new variables involved with clearance issues.

  23. #23
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    What actually hits with the offset insert on the bottom is the eyelet part of the shock. Basically the lower shock mount does not leave any extra room for the shock to sit lower in the mount. Again this may only be a small frame issue.

    Frank, Have you switched to the new style Fox igus bushings from the old style brass with two piece alu inserts? The proshox insert is steel one piece.

  24. #24
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    sounds correct, the big thing is the one piece steel insert axle versus the two piece alu. CC and RS have been one piece all along. Haven't checked it yet but the eyelet bearings may work with the Proshox offsets.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsittman View Post
    Ah...gotcha jewels. I have a large but I'll be sure to check the clearances through the full shock stroke. I've got a RS Monarch Plus on the way too so I have a couple new variables involved with clearance issues.
    dsitman, where did you source your shock? I can't find one in stock anywhere I have to mail order as I live oversea's.
    Too fat for XC, and not skilled enough for FR

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