Officially Turnerless.

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  • 01-21-2013
    KRob
    Officially Turnerless.
    And that kinda makes me sad.:sad:
    The 5 Spot frame is on its way to a new home.

    In fact, I'm pretty much bikeless. I've been riding my old HH100x that I had given to my son last summer but both my regular bikes are sold.

    Can I still post here if I don't have a bike?
  • 01-21-2013
    Scottay5150
    Nope, no posting allowed. :)

    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus
  • 01-22-2013
    Surfas
    What will be your next bike ???????
  • 01-22-2013
    nhodge
    you're really that sold on Knolly? what was the tipping point? Arizona trip? you must have ridden a Chilcotin a fair amount? since you've had a DT for years while owning a Turner during that same time, there must be something or 3 that really sent ya over the edge.
    ???
  • 01-22-2013
    Mrwhlr
    I'll answer for him. Too much anti-squat, not enough traction.
  • 01-22-2013
    Cope
    Turner builds a great frame, and I'm plenty happy with my 11' Spot for aggresive riding. But lets face it, there is a hole in the Turner line up that other companies are filling right now. If your needs are a true AM-light freeride rig the reality is the RFX aint gonna happen and your looking elsewhere...but to say a well executed DW Link doesn't provide traction compared to Horst or 4x whatever in my opinion is comical.
  • 01-22-2013
    KRob
    I'm really interested in the whole 650b thing and have been really impressed with the 27.5" wheeled bikes I've ridden and loved my 5 Spot, so was really tempted by the Burner.

    Here's why I chose the Chilcotin:
    1. I'm not a dw-link hater.... in fact DT's version is really very good and for some things I actually like it better than Knolly... I just prefer the 4x4 linkage of the knolly for the riding I like the most (more chunky technical). I think it stays more active while climbing tech and feels more plush while descending it.
    2. I wanted a bike that could do most of what the 5 spot does and most of what my Delirium T does (did...:sad:), had 160mm of rear travel, but could still be built up in the 32 lbs range without breaking the bank. (Dave doesn't have a bike in his lineup like that....yet).
  • 01-22-2013
    6thElement
    I was in the same situation, I was in the XC wilderness for 4 months with a niner dalliance, but the new Turner couldn't be better :thumbsup:

    (not including my DHR ;))
  • 01-22-2013
    nhodge
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by KRob View Post
    I'm really interested in the whole 650b thing and have been really impressed with the 27.5" wheeled bikes I've ridden and loved my 5 Spot, so was really tempted by the Burner.

    Here's why I chose the Chilcotin:
    1. I'm not a dw-link hater.... in fact DT's version is really very good and for some things I actually like it better than Knolly... I just prefer the 4x4 linkage of the knolly for the riding I like the most (more chunky technical). I think it stays more active while climbing tech and feels more plush while descending it.
    2. I wanted a bike that could do most of what the 5 spot does and most of what my Delirium T does (did...:sad:), had 160mm of rear travel, but could still be built up in the 32 lbs range without breaking the bank. (Dave doesn't have a bike in his lineup like that....yet).

    w/ that being the goal of what you want, the Chilcotin should fill that need to a "T"(w/o the delerium):o
  • 01-22-2013
    bobo_krkk_NIN
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by KRob View Post
    I'm really interested in the whole 650b thing and have been really impressed with the 27.5" wheeled bikes I've ridden and loved my 5 Spot, so was really tempted by the Burner.

    Here's why I chose the Chilcotin:
    1. I'm not a dw-link hater.... in fact DT's version is really very good and for some things I actually like it better than Knolly... I just prefer the 4x4 linkage of the knolly for the riding I like the most (more chunky technical). I think it stays more active while climbing tech and feels more plush while descending it.
    2. I wanted a bike that could do most of what the 5 spot does and most of what my Delirium T does (did...:sad:), had 160mm of rear travel, but could still be built up in the 32 lbs range without breaking the bank. (Dave doesn't have a bike in his lineup like that....yet).

    It's OK to just say that you like Knollys better after trying a Turner for a year and a half. Just like it is OK for Lance to say that he likes Turners better than Knollys after owning one for a few weeks. The rest of us that only have one and haven't owned the other are just celebrating what we know.

    For correctness, you should post that you are Knolly-less over in Knomerville too. At least until you get your Chili. :). (You may already have it, I forget).

    Ride on. Weather here in Phoenix was perfect this past weekend and this week!

    By the way, Turners are better! :D
  • 01-22-2013
    KRob
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by bobo_krkk_NIN View Post
    It's OK to just say that you like Knollys better after trying a Turner for a year and a half.

    That's a stretch. I'm comparing bike models, not bike companies.
    If I had been able to compare two bikes in the same class from Knolly and Turner and decided to go with the Chilcotin, I could say that..... but, like I said, much of my decision was based on the fact that the RFX doesn't exist and assuming it did exist that it would be very similar to the Chili not the Delirium.

    I honestly don't know how the RFX would ride if it existed, but I know from my previous experience on the 5 spot and DHR that it would be very competitive with the Chilcotin and my decision would've been even that much harder. For instance, if I were shopping downhill rigs I'd have a really tough time deciding between the Podium and DHR.

    I'm a knomerhomer. I really do like both companies and I like supporting both Dave and Noel. No mystery there. They both are passionate about building really good bikes that work well and hold up to years of hard riding. They both are passionate about standing behind their product, are approachable and available to joe average customer, and they are both good for the bike industry. I like that.

    Wouldn't surprise me a bit if when I decide to add a second bike to the stable again, it was a Turner (assuming he had a model in the category I was shopping).

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by bobo_krkk_NIN
    By the way, Turners are better! :D

    Yes they are! So are Knollies. :thumbsup: However if Dave (or Noel) stopped being what I described above I wouldn't have any problem looking for a company that did fit that model.
  • 01-22-2013
    wheatgerm
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by KRob View Post
    I'm a knomerhomer. I really do like both companies and I like supporting both Dave and Noel. No mystery there. They both are passionate about building really good bikes that work well and hold up to years of hard riding. They both are passionate about standing behind their product, are approachable and available to joe average customer, and they are both good for the bike industry. I like that.

    Well said :thumbsup:
  • 01-22-2013
    KRob
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by 6thElement View Post
    I was in the same situation, I was in the XC wilderness for 4 months with a niner dalliance, but the new Turner couldn't be better :thumbsup:

    (not including my DHR ;))

    The new Burner looks like it will be a rockin' good bike. I'm just not convinced that it would be any more capable, durable, huckable, delirium-like than the 5 Spot..... especially if there's no 36mm 160 fork available for it.

    So are you bringing it out to Moab this year to test that theory?
  • 01-22-2013
    xcguy
    So...you have a Chilcotin? You're not really bikeless? :confused: Heck, you were a Homer for just awhile anyway, now you're back to "normal".
  • 01-22-2013
    6thElement
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by KRob View Post
    So are you bringing it out to Moab this year to test that theory?

    I'd love to try the Burner in Moab but I did a CO and Moab trip in September '11 so unlikely to go again so soon. I was semi-thinking about St George in mid-March linked to the True Grit race as I've not headed to that corner of Utah before. But I'd prefer later in the year to avoid weather risks.

    Currently planning on showing my DHR around the Colorado resorts mid-summer though.
  • 01-22-2013
    KRob
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by xcguy View Post
    So...you have a Chilcotin? You're not really bikeless? :confused: Heck, you were a Homer for just awhile anyway, now you're back to "normal".

    I have one on order in Team Orange which won't be available until this next batch which isn't due until March...... so I should have it by the end of summer I'm thinking.:rolleyes:

    KRob------->:madman::madman::mad::mad::madmax::madmax: if I still don't have a bike when Spring rolls around.
  • 01-22-2013
    icegeek
    by hook or crook, you really need to get your hands on a chili by spring,
    then we need to meet in Moab to a/b it against my nomad,
    it'll be like old times


    ... oh, and then we need to put together some rides in the Chilcotins
  • 01-22-2013
    KRob
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by icegeek View Post
    by hook or crook, you really need to get your hands on a chili by spring,
    then we need to meet in Moab to a/b it against my nomad,
    it'll be like old times

    Tim's been telling me the same thing. I'm talking to my people and hopes are high.
    New bike IG? Did you go for the carbon?


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by icegeek
    ... oh, and then we need to put together some rides in the Chilcotins

    ^^^^ This!
  • 01-23-2013
    Mrwhlr
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Cope View Post
    to say a well executed DW Link doesn't provide traction compared to Horst or 4x whatever in my opinion is comical.

    _dw link will never provide the traction of the 4xFour and Krob knows it as much as I do. Why else hurt Booboo's feelings like this?

    Oh, and DaveM, you should have got an HD if you wanted carbon.
  • 01-23-2013
    fermenter
    I'm going to join in the RFXicating. My RFX is dead RIP and I am ordering a 5 Spot. Wish I could get an updated RFX.
    Without a trade in I would still be looking at Turner but as well as others who don't have a hole in the line up.
    Cheers!
  • 01-29-2013
    Hard2Catch
    KRob is the Knolly's 4X really that much better than the DW?
    Impressions?
  • 01-29-2013
    S-Works
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by fermenter View Post
    I'm going to join in the RFXicating. My RFX is dead RIP and I am ordering a 5 Spot. Wish I could get an updated RFX.
    Without a trade in I would still be looking at Turner but as well as others who don't have a hole in the line up.
    Cheers!

    Um, look at the geometry, the current spot IS the new RFX.
  • 01-29-2013
    KRob
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Hard2Catch View Post
    KRob is the Knolly's 4X really that much better than the DW?
    Impressions?

    It's better in some areas, not as good in others. Everyone has their preferences. I've always been a sucker for a well-executed horst link design, and Noel's version of the HL is the best of those. With his extra link he can control the rear wheel action more precisely.

    If you hate a bike to squat a bit on climbing or do mostly smoothish climbing, definitely stick with the dw-link, but I find that that little bit of extra activeness from the 4x4 helps traction and crawling over square ledges on more techy climbs and feels more active on rough descents.

    Having said that, I know the dw-link can be made to feel very plush and active on rough, DH type trails with longer travel applications because I've ridden the old Iron Horse Sunday and the new DHR...even my dw 5 Spot felt quite plush and controlled until it got in over its head. Maybe in a 160-170mm travel RFX type application the two would be very equal on descents,,,,, but I still think I'd prefer the 4x4 for climbing tech.

    We'll never know for sure unless Dave makes the dw RFX.:skep:
  • 01-29-2013
    Mrwhlr
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by S-Works View Post
    Um, look at the geometry, the current spot IS the new RFX.

    Dave says it's the Firebird, actually :D.
  • 01-29-2013
    Mrwhlr
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by KRob View Post

    but I find that that little bit of extra activeness from the 4x4 helps traction and crawling over square ledges on more techy climbs and feels more active on rough descents.

    Not to mention that it doesn't try to drive the front wheel down into the very things you're trying to pedal over. Of course, the _dw link won't do that either, as long as you're not pedaling.
  • 01-29-2013
    airwreck
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Mrwhlr View Post
    Not to mention that it doesn't try to drive the front wheel down into the very things you're trying to pedal over. Of course, the _dw link won't do that either, as long as you're not pedaling.

    Okay, so you are the kind of person that blames the bike for their lack of skills, thanks for making that clear.
  • 01-29-2013
    Cope
    Following this thread has made me realize I might have a problem with the 5 Spot I'm currently riding. I don't think the DW Link was properly installed on the frame?? The bike is pretty average on smooth trails, fireroads, etc. Climbing technical terrain I don't feel any pedal feedback or suspension "hang up" on square edge rocky terrain and I seem to be able to get the front end over obstacles while climbing without issue. What gives?? I know Turners are still made in the USA, but you don't think incompetent american frame builders screwed mine up??:D
  • 01-29-2013
    fermenter
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by S-Works View Post
    Um, look at the geometry, the current spot IS the new RFX.

    Yes I got that for sure but: Using my 160mm fork and an external lower cup on the headset my new spot just may have a 67(66.7?) deg head angle compared to my old RFX 68 deg.
    I think in reality the Spot may be just as strong as the RFX but is the intended use the same? I did crack that frame in several places. I'm hoping I don't miss the .9" less travel.

    I'm confident for most of my trail riding I will like this Spot better. Esp after reading several have made the move from the RFx to the new Spot. After all in the end I did order a 2013 Spot.

    Cheers!
  • 01-29-2013
    AlienRFX
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by fermenter View Post
    Yes I got that for sure but: Using my 160mm fork and an external lower cup on the headset my new spot just may have a 67(66.7?) deg head angle compared to my old RFX 68 deg.
    I think in reality the Spot may be just as strong as the RFX but is the intended use the same? I did crack that frame in several places. I'm hoping I don't miss the .9" less travel.

    I'm confident for most of my trail riding I will like this Spot better. Esp after reading several have made the move from the RFx to the new Spot. After all in the end I did order a 2013 Spot.

    Cheers!

    I've been on my new spot for about 160 trail miles now after riding my RFX for the past 10 years, The spot is more fun and capable for what I ride out here than my RFX and trust me I was worried that the spot wouldn't perform as well.

    Boy was I ever wrong. I love my RFX and it is a badass bike but the Spot outclasses it in damn near every category.
  • 01-29-2013
    LncNuvue
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Cope View Post
    Following this thread has made me realize I might have a problem with the 5 Spot I'm currently riding. I don't think the DW Link was properly installed on the frame?? The bike is pretty average on smooth trails, fireroads, etc. Climbing technical terrain I don't feel any pedal feedback or suspension "hang up" on square edge rocky terrain and I seem to be able to get the front end over obstacles while climbing without issue. What gives?? I know Turners are still made in the USA, but you don't think incompetent american frame builders screwed mine up??:D

    Ours must be from the same batch because I have all of the same issues:thumbsup:
  • 01-30-2013
    KRob
    No. Nothing wrong with your bikes. I hope no one is getting the impression that I'm in the same camp as mrwhlr. Yes, we both ride Knolly, but he seems to dislike dw_link and I think it works pretty darn well when executed correctly for my riding preferences (Turner best, Ibis 2nd best, Pivot third. For climbing smoother trails and standing sprints I'd reverse that ranking).

    My five spot did all those things cope and LncNuvue describe..... I just think the 4x4 on the chilicotin does some of them a bit better.
  • 01-30-2013
    kapusta
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Cope View Post
    ..but to say a well executed DW Link doesn't provide traction compared to Horst or 4x whatever in my opinion is comical.

    I sort of agree with that. Certain DW-Link executions keep rear traction under pedaling in the rough as well as a horst link (my old mkiii did), but the 5-Spot is not one of them. My take has been that it's part of the trade off for getting a frame that climbs so well (and the 5-Spot DOES climb better than the MKIII did).
  • 01-30-2013
    wheatgerm
    KRob, I don't think anyone will confuse you with mrwhlr. And I'm pretty sure most people realize that some suspension designs work better than others for their preferences and the terrain they ride. Each design has their pluses and minuses. Different strokes for different folks.
  • 01-30-2013
    Mrwhlr
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by KRob View Post
    I just think the 4x4 on the chilicotin does some of them a bit better.

    It's nice to see you figuring some things out that I've known for years, like Dave has with his remarks about 3-ring crank sets and bottom bracket heights. Enjoy your new bike!
  • 01-31-2013
    fermenter
    Sorry for the bit of hijacking this thread. Now for something that has much to do with the main conversation: I was happy and surprized at the ability for the RFX to climb in the chunk. Pop the front wheel over a ledge and mash the gas and the back wheel would not hang up. For such a slight reward axle path from the consant arc I was surprized it didn't hang up. I might miss that going to DW. So be it though.
  • 01-31-2013
    KRob
    Just couldn't wait any longer for the Chilcotin.
    With the Team Orange being delayed and winter in full swing...... I just couldn't take it. I had to have a bike to ride.:cool:
    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/19516547@N04/8433349934/" title="SAM_0290 by kentsaundra, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8227/8433349934_2c17c004ac_b.jpg" width="1024" height="768" alt="SAM_0290"></a>

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/19516547@N04/8433355956/" title="SAM_0288 by kentsaundra, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8470/8433355956_801103ca36_b.jpg" width="1024" height="768" alt="SAM_0288"></a>

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/19516547@N04/8433352996/" title="SAM_0289 by kentsaundra, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8080/8433352996_9dc742a687_b.jpg" width="1024" height="768" alt="SAM_0289"></a>

    First ride Saturday. I'll give you all the details and comparisons to the Chili. I think it will be good for all the riding I do including SoMo, Moab, and Vegas. Heck I'm thinking it would even be a good bike for Whistler. Stay tuned.
  • 01-31-2013
    turnerbikes
    I spent time on a fat tire bike at OuterBike last fall. I GET it! Really way more fun than I would have thought in a zen sorta flow up the sand wash and creeping over rock outcroppings sorta way. I know that JNCarpenter has had them for awhile and in slimy mud and roots in the deep woods they are grippy fun too. Nothing like a normal bike, but no less fun.

    DT
  • 01-31-2013
    dustyduke22
    Hopefully your ride on my Pugs helped you :)
  • 01-31-2013
    KRob
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by dustyduke22 View Post
    Hopefully your ride on my Pugs helped you :)

    My thoughts regarding fat bikes were pretty similar to those expressed by Mitchell Scott in this article posted on pink bike today. I just couldn't imagine they would be that much better in the snow and they looked like they would be as slow and sluggish as trying to pedal around a tractor or monster truck .

    My little spin on your Pugsley at least opened my eyes to how fun feeling and spritely they are. They're also much lighter than I imagined. They look like they'd weight at least 50 lbs but I'd be surprised if this one weighs more than 30-35 lbs. So when my buddy offered his for me to ride this weekend I jumped at the chance. Excited to see how it goes. Like Dave said, I think it's going to be more fun then I imagined from the little spins have taken around the yard.