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  1. #1
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    No more double taco please

    I think the Spot is a cool looking bike, but not really in the XL size. Just in case I am in the market for a 5.5 inch travel bike at some time in the future, I thought I'd go ahead and mention a couple things I'd recommend I'd have a hard time buying an XL Spot right now with its current looks.

    - No more double taco please
    - Shorter seat tube...no longer than 21 inches

    There's my two cents. Just thought I'd throw that out since good ole DT patrols these pages and is very aware of customer preferences. Thanks for listening.

  2. #2
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    Completely agree however, generally speaking, people that ride XL sizes would rather the added durability and stiffness that it offers.

  3. #3
    TLL
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    I'm in agreement with Loco--can't stand the double taco. It is one of the reasons I went with an RFX rather than a Spot in XL. The Sultan also lacks the double taco on the XL. But I do understand the advantage the taco provides so I'm not complaining.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by TLL
    But I do understand the advantage the taco provides so I'm not complaining.

    Quote Originally Posted by TLL
    I'm in agreement with Loco--can't stand the double taco. It is one of the reasons I went with an RFX rather than a Spot in XL. The Sultan also lacks the double taco on the XL.



    ...

  5. #5
    TLL
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken



    ...
    I guess I should amend my comment to "I'm not complaining because I bought a frame that doesn't have the double taco" or "I'm not complaining too loudly since it doesn't affect me personally" or "buy a 29er because they make tacos obsolete".

    Now if you want something to complain about, what about the noise that Hope Pro IIs make? THAT drives me crazy.

  6. #6
    tg
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    no double on my xl

    My 06 xl 5 spot came with uno taco love it .
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by TLL
    Now if you want something to complain about, what about the noise that Hope Pro IIs make? THAT drives me crazy.

    +1000 on that! I'm about ready to build up a new wheelset because of all that racket my pro2 makes.

  8. #8
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    Where's whafe when I need him to show off my quote? You guys are closer to the c*nts on 90210. Aaron Spelling should lurk on this forum.

  9. #9
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    The double double taco taco are needed for support baby.....

    Hi from Warsaw.......
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by frisky_zissou
    Completely agree however, generally speaking, people that ride XL sizes would rather the added durability and stiffness that it offers.
    The XL RFX doesn't have it and that's a burlier bike

  11. #11
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    As if the XL frames of any manufacturer aren't ugly already, removing a support brace is now demanded?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    As if the XL frames of any manufacturer aren't ugly already, removing a support brace is now demanded?
    I hope I don't sound like a whiner, I just wanted to voice my opinion that's all. I also think the seat tube is too long so it's not just the double taco. Most other brand XLs have a 21 inch seat tube which is more appropriate I think. Enough of my opinion on that! Good riding!

  13. #13
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    Shorten the seat tube and long legged XL riders will be complaining about too much seat post showing. IDK either way. I can't see any of it from the saddle.
    Faster is better, even when it's not.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Locomoto
    I hope I don't sound like a whiner, I just wanted to voice my opinion that's all. I also think the seat tube is too long so it's not just the double taco. Most other brand XLs have a 21 inch seat tube which is more appropriate I think. Enough of my opinion on that! Good riding!
    If I was DT I would ditch the double taco, lower the SO on the XL by an inch and use a bigger upper taco. I would also add an extra size into the Spot lineup, ala 21" size. Then I would add a gusset to the Spot HT to handle a 160mm fork. Then, I would ditch the Highline from the lineup and beef up the RFX to it's former glory, ala 2001. But what the hell do I know!

    I think the double taco looks lame, mostly just because I like disagreeing with Aqua.
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  15. #15
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    Sasquatch needs to get rid of the double taco as well. My XXL Sultan has only one and it looks just right. BTW there is really no need for 24" ST and this comes from a guy with 34" between BB and seat.

  16. #16
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    Why not go for one of these? They're pretty sexy, if I say so myself.

    oof.
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  17. #17
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    Why not drop the taco, weld a brace similar to the junction between the lower side of the downtube bridge to head tube on the medium spot, it could be smaller than the taco and not look so obtrusive, but still provide stiffness and support to the seat tube for you Sasquatches!

    Ya can't compare RFX tubing to Spots, obviously the lighter frame is thinner and probably different again in different stress area's I wouldn't worry about it so much if I was that big atleast ya get size in such a quality machine

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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    Why not go for one of these? They're pretty sexy, if I say so myself.

    oof.
    That bike is ugly. I think most Ellsworth's are very good looking bikes, but not that one.

  19. #19
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    What kind of guy orders 1 taco?

    2 tacos!

    Both at my local mexican establishment and my Turner. When the bike is covered in mud and dirt, who cares. Stronger is better!

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by SportDerek
    What kind of guy orders 1 taco?

    2 tacos!

    Both at my local mexican establishment and my Turner. When the bike is covered in mud and dirt, who cares. Stronger is better!
    Agree Loco that Ellsworth is ugly, every year they get more and more like road bikes


    SportDerek I like ya thinking, been a long time since I last went to taco bell, I know its shitholla compared to the real things but hey, when ya travelling all that stuff seems good the first time

    Ps what sorta guy only buys one Turner!

    Step it up step it up
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  21. #21
    TLL
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    As if the XL frames of any manufacturer aren't ugly already, removing a support brace is now demanded?
    As an owner of an XL Turner sir, I AM OFFENDED! There is nothing ugly about an XL bike.

    Unless it's an Ells or Speccy or crybex.





    Quote Originally Posted by trailadvent
    Ps what sorta guy only buys one Turner!
    The kind of guy that feels obligated to feed his family occasionally? PS do Ventanas count?

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by TLL

    Unless it's an Ells or Speccy or crybex.
    , ya got style TLL





    The kind of guy that feels obligated to feed his family occasionally? PS do Ventanas count?
    Never argue with a mans family, got to come first!
    Venty's count, theyre Homer offsrping anyways
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  23. #23
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    I'll deny it if you ever repeat it to anyone, but I agree with Dusty.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by TLL
    As an owner of an XL Turner sir, I AM OFFENDED! There is nothing ugly about an XL bike.

    Unless it's an Ells or Speccy or crybex.






    The kind of guy that feels obligated to feed his family occasionally? PS do Ventanas count?
    "Speccys" hide the XL ugliness much better than the dualing taco 5-spot.

    MY Stumpjumper

  25. #25
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    Well, Ellsworth can't keep the designer(s) long enough. The main designer could not get back into the country after a trip home (France, I think) so they went looking for others and somehow ended up letting the original guy work from overseas....not sure how that ended up.

    Then I hear that TE hires three of SAPA's guys, who promptly walk out together a few days ago. I mean, can YOU imagine working for TE? WTH were they thinking? Pretty soon they will try to hire the Cervelo landscaper to make bike shaped like svelte hedges. I mean, the rear triangles are a bit wavy to begin with so why not...

    Okay, I don't care about the double taco because I'm not a freakish giant like some of you

  26. #26
    TLL
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lumbee1
    "Speccys" hide the XL ugliness much better than the dualing taco 5-spot.
    Dualing Tacos? Squeal like a pig, boy!

    I actually had an XL Epic that looked pretty nice.

  27. #27
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    Lumbee no dis but that seatube has got to be one of the ugliest ever produced ya got a big hole in the middle of and there's gusseting & welds and bends all over the place!

    Beauty truly is in the eye of the beholder, not that it effects me but give me DT's double g anyday, course ya know how I just love Spechy's


    Dusty, I thought DT was already onto your wish list, did you not get DTs memo a few months ago, your wish has been granted, for the Spot and RFX, though the DW part has been drop kicked the website couldn't handle all the kool aid requests for exisiting stock
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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flyer
    Well, Ellsworth can't keep the designer(s) long enough. The main designer could not get back into the country after a trip home (France, I think) so they went looking for others and somehow ended up letting the original guy work from overseas....not sure how that ended up.

    Then I hear that TE hires three of SAPA's guys, who promptly walk out together a few days ago. I mean, can YOU imagine working for TE? WTH were they thinking? Pretty soon they will try to hire the Cervelo landscaper to make bike shaped like svelte hedges. I mean, the rear triangles are a bit wavy to begin with so why not...

    Okay, I don't care about the double taco because I'm not a freakish giant like some of you
    Whoa, back up a minute. A little bike industry espionage going on here!

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    Whoa, back up a minute. A little bike industry espionage going on here!
    From Flyer's post, seems there is more well lets call it "day of our lives" sh!t going down in the Ellsworth fort.....
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whafe
    From Flyer's post, seems there is more well lets call it "day of our lives" sh!t going down in the Ellsworth fort.....
    I just read some stuff over there. It just gets worse and worse. EW should not be allowed to access the internet and if these three guys really walked out together, that sounds like a big deal for production.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    I just read some stuff over there. It just gets worse and worse. EW should not be allowed to access the internet and if these three guys really walked out together, that sounds like a big deal for production.
    Hard to write anything over there in the forum.... As we both know, you can tell a lot from the staff turn over in a company... And in the last many years from my limited dealings, the staff turn over is intense................... And then the mention of 3 key peeps walking out is pretty out there...... TE should look at the reasons, for sure could be rumour, but generally speaking these staff issue ones have not been rumours.....

    I stand by what I always have said, myself with my Ellsworths have never had an issue, BUT if 5% of what was said on here was true, of which I take this stat, I am very weary to look at another Ellsworth.....

    My good riding buddy Momentus has a Moment, of which he canes and it is going strong..... So they are not all bad....
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  32. #32
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    Now if these three are the guys I'm thinking of, EW is going to have a problem. I remember hearing from someone out there during the announcements of EW's own manufacturing facility that these three guys he took away from SAPA were top guys, responsible for lots of the direction the company went in out in Portland. SAPA had a tough time replacing them because of their combined experience. If these three are one and the same and the rumor is true, I wish TE luck. The turnover is staggering, which also includes Pecusick, who went over to Intense, and these three manufacturing guys were the manufacturing dept at EW. For three to walk at the same time indicates a problem.

    I don't think anyone disputes the rides and the fact that EW and Turner riders are together out on the trails, it's no big deal. I think with Turner's "Customer Service Agreement", many owners have an easy time of seeing something of a team feeling. If someone tries to screw over Turner and run him out of business, that person doesn't realize that the owners felt like that guy was directly screwing us over because we have that uncompromising customer service and line to the top. We'd be left with bikes that may have trouble and need parts, for instance. So it doesn't go against the customers. It's hard for people to get it and I did find it funny when Rogue Rider told that deepwoods flyer customer that he should imagine getting a call from Steve Jobs or Bill Gates while he works on his mac in Starbucks- a total shot right there, and not factually comparable, since those are multi-national corporations with billions in assets and revenue, while we're all in these arena of mountain biking, paying a premium for the perks of going with a smaller sized builder. Built into the price is the ability to speak to someone closer to the top, instead of a CS office somewhere hardwired to a binder of flowcharts and scenarios.

    An additional perk on this side of the forums is the ability to have direct input on the next designs, whether DT agrees or not, he weathers storms of criticism from customers and potential customers to come up with what the customers want, while still fitting in his design philosophy. This thread is evidence of that (getting back to topic). Turner will always try to find a solution, but if not, it's assured there's a good reason.

    I jokingly call my cohorts here "c*nts", but I think we get pampered pretty well by DT and this particular nature of the homers is probably a manifestation of that, along with growing up privileged

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    Now if these three are the guys I'm thinking of, EW is going to have a problem. I remember hearing from someone out there during the announcements of EW's own manufacturing facility that these three guys he took away from SAPA were top guys, responsible for lots of the direction the company went in out in Portland. SAPA had a tough time replacing them because of their combined experience. If these three are one and the same and the rumor is true, I wish TE luck. The turnover is staggering, which also includes Pecusick, who went over to Intense, and these three manufacturing guys were the manufacturing dept at EW. For three to walk at the same time indicates a problem.

    I don't think anyone disputes the rides and the fact that EW and Turner riders are together out on the trails, it's no big deal. I think with Turner's "Customer Service Agreement", many owners have an easy time of seeing something of a team feeling. If someone tries to screw over Turner and run him out of business, that person doesn't realize that the owners felt like that guy was directly screwing us over because we have that uncompromising customer service and line to the top. We'd be left with bikes that may have trouble and need parts, for instance. So it doesn't go against the customers. It's hard for people to get it and I did find it funny when Rogue Rider told that deepwoods flyer customer that he should imagine getting a call from Steve Jobs or Bill Gates while he works on his mac in Starbucks- a total shot right there, and not factually comparable, since those are multi-national corporations with billions in assets and revenue, while we're all in these arena of mountain biking, paying a premium for the perks of going with a smaller sized builder. Built into the price is the ability to speak to someone closer to the top, instead of a CS office somewhere hardwired to a binder of flowcharts and scenarios.

    An additional perk on this side of the forums is the ability to have direct input on the next designs, whether DT agrees or not, he weathers storms of criticism from customers and potential customers to come up with what the customers want, while still fitting in his design philosophy. This thread is evidence of that (getting back to topic). Turner will always try to find a solution, but if not, it's assured there's a good reason.

    I jokingly call my cohorts here "c*nts", but I think we get pampered pretty well by DT and this particular nature of the homers is probably a manifestation of that, along with growing up privileged
    Whole heartedly agree JC.......................

    And for the record in NZ, if you get call a "good c*nt" it is avery good compliment.....
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  34. #34
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    I like tacos

    But no more doubles on big frames!

  35. #35
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    real c*nts are usually really adorable but in all seriousness, the three ex-SAPA guys who reportedly walked out were Mike, Dan, and Troy. This has left Ells in some serious trouble. I hope this doesn't hurt them enough to make them revert back to their old and unethical ways. That will only hurt existing and future Ellsworth owners and like all riders, they are mostly just cool riders who enjoy riding as much as the most appreciative of us.

    TE's ego is a huge part of the problem, from what I hear. Only the guys who can take an insane amount of crap can stick around. The company would be far better off without him at the reins. Nobody who can easily find a well-paying job elsewhere, will stick around if they have to interact with him where they have to accept his ranting and ego on a daily basis.

  36. #36
    TLL
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes
    But no more doubles on big frames!
    Wow. Now that my friends, is listening to the customer.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by TLL
    Wow. Now that my friends, is listening to the customer.


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  38. #38
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    Form following function or function following form? With the latter you get the initiative by Niner with their request to halt all sales of their Jet9 because of catastrophic failure of the rockers. They have also asked all owners stop riding their Jet9's as well until they have a solution. The mad scramble to Taiwan was made to try and discuss the problem. It is speculated that the last minute change they made to chrome plating the rocker weakened it (widely known as hydrogen embrittlement and regarded as serious in the custom automotive industry). As written in the Niner blog, they wanted to impress people with an extremely durable finish and luster, but apparently didn't test or take subsequent steps to restore said plated part to full strength.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    As written in the Niner blog, they wanted to impress people with an extremely durable finish and luster, but apparently didn't test or take subsequent steps to restore said plated part to full strength.
    Oops.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes
    But no more doubles on big frames!
    Way to go! Shorter seat tubes on the big rigs? (i.e. no more than 21" on XLs)?

  41. #41
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    Nuts!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lumbee1
    "Speccys" hide the XL ugliness much better than the dualing taco 5-spot.

    MY Stumpjumper
    Your insane, no specialized has ever been better than any turner. Period.
    Even most folks on the specialized forum would agree.
    Come on!

  42. #42
    TLL
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    Quote Originally Posted by freebiker
    Your insane, no specialized has ever been better than any turner. Period.
    Even most folks on the specialized forum would agree.
    Come on!
    I think he was originally referring to the look of the two respective bikes. And it's not that Speccy makes pretty XL bikes that gives it an edge, but that the Double Taco on the XL Spot is not universally appealing.

    How they ride is a different story, of course.

  43. #43
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    No more top tubes please.

    They are ugly, limit stand over clearance and add weight.

    Please get rid of the top tube...

    ...and if you can get rid of the down tube, do that as well.

    Thanks

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    Someone needs to post a pic of the double taco XL spot... I personally think 22" seat tube is a blessing, I think 21" in XL is retarded and in fact seek out 22" seat tubes as much as possible.

  45. #45
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    I pray Turner goes to a Klein Mantra design, or one inspired by Slingshot.

    Double tacos, of course.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by dieselcruiserhead
    Someone needs to post a pic of the double taco XL spot... I personally think 22" seat tube is a blessing, I think 21" in XL is retarded and in fact seek out 22" seat tubes as much as possible.
    What length is your inseam? I'm surprised to hear you say that. You are the first person I have heard who prefers a 22". I remember SLCrider who is 6'4" had an XL Spot and thought the 22" seat tube was too long. I'm 6'3" and ride a bike with a 20 inch seat tube and don't see the reason for 2 more inches, especially dropping the post for steeper descents.

  47. #47
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    I am 6'5 so on the taller end of the spectrum of XL. I could fit on XXL easily (I have friends who are 6.2 on XXL) but my whole life I've been on XLs so that is what I am sticking with. When I find XL with 22" I am very happy. Inseam is a little longer, I suppose XL is a wide ranging size for 6'1 to about 6'4/6'5 in theory... There is a lot of added strength with 22" size. I have not found anyone who's complained about the longer seatube personally...

  48. #48
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    FWIW I could care less how the double-taco looks on my XL 5.Spot. If it makes it stronger and stiffer and the whole bike - built for fun - still just clears 30lbs, then I'm happy.

    I am also really digging the geometry of the XL. I am running it with a 0-degree 110mm stem. I come from the xc background so I like the upper body part of the fit long. I hopped on another XL 5.Spot at Downieville Saturday that was set up just slightly differently, with I think a 90mm stem higher up. Didn't work for me. I'm 6'2", average proportions I think.

    Edit: Here it is, seat still low from a fun descent after a perfect day of riding in Downieville:



    Just another data point,

    Morgan
    P.S. My 5.Spot loved Downieville this weekend, and so did I! It was my 2nd trip to Downieville in two weeks. Heaven.
    P.P.S. This weekend it had 2.35" Schwalbe Fat Albert UST tires. NICE!

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    Good lookin bike Morgan, doesn't look lame to me at all.. A

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by dieselcruiserhead
    Someone needs to post a pic of the double taco XL spot... I personally think 22" seat tube is a blessing, I think 21" in XL is retarded and in fact seek out 22" seat tubes as much as possible.
    You know, I own both a 21" (RFX) and a 22" (Ventana El Padrino) and personally I like the 21" frame size a little better. I''m 6'4" and have ridden down to a 20" without much of an issue, though that is an extra 2" of leverage on the HT/ST junction.

    Oddly, I also like to run 50mm stems, I guess in part because I like a shorter cockpit, even on the El Padrino. I'd be the opposite of morganfletcher, I guess. Horses for courses.

    Besides, TT length is far more important anyway-- I can live with an extra inch of seat tube, but an extra inch of top tube is a deal killer. (Which is why I don't ride a Sultan in an XL )

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