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  1. #1
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    My 'Spot is 2 weeks old...and my DHX-Air is broken:-(

    Hi @. After waiting the whole summer for my gorgeous 5-Spot to arrive, I've been riding it for only 2 weeks and today the shock became stuck down. The o-ring shows the current sag setting, with 200psi in the main chamber!!!

    What with the bottoming out issues, I'm not very impressed with this shock so far. I guess I should remove it and send it off to Mojo for fixing...or should I talk to Turner? Back to the hardtail again for a while...




  2. #2
    Supersonic Garfield
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    I have a friend who had the exact thing happen to his spot/dhxAir combo. He had 2000feet of singletrack to descend in Verbier when it happened...

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trond
    I have a friend who had the exact thing happen to his spot/dhxAir combo. He had 2000feet of singletrack to descend in Verbier when it happened...
    Ah man that's harsh. At least I was only doing a couple of loops of one of the Welsh trails. Talk about smacking pedals against rocks though...it was like riding a chopper. Not happy . Until the PUSH shim stack for the DHX-A is available, I'm not gonna have a lot of faith in this shock.

  4. #4
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    happy ht:ing

    Sorry to hear about your bad luck with the shock.

    Almost the same happened to me .waited the spot, build it, loved it, had 3 rides and now i had to sent to DHX air back.

    My shock was making very loud klunk noise so tho problem with the shock was a bit different but the result the same.

    It´s very hard to be parted of your new bike. the old HT is fine but somehow feels like subtitute now.

    Hope you get yours fixed soon.
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  5. #5
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    You have the infamous "Stuck Down" issue. It's so prevalent, that Fox included it in their 2006 manual. That problem occurs with the FLoat, Rp3 and DHx air. I had the problem with a 2005 RP3 and a 2006 Rp3. It sucks, doesn't it?

    I'd contact Turner and see if they'll send you a replacement. Otherwise, send it to Fox and they'll fix it.

    The problem occurs because there is a leak between the positive and negative chambers. This is most likely caused by a bad seal or not enough lube in the shock.

    Good Luck.

  6. #6
    Lay off the Levers
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    Being in the UK, I'll bet service turnarund to the US will be a PITA. Isn't there a F0X service center on your side of the pond?

    Meanwhile maybe your shop or distributer can set you up with a loaner shock (Rond, RP3, Romic, RS 5th-E Air)? Even a different variety will be better than a big gap in the middle of your frame.

    Did the manual discribe some potential remedies to release the Stuck-down problem? I vaguely recall some people posted they were able to work it out under very limited circumstances. Chances are you'll have to send it back though b/c if it hapens once it will likely happen again.
    Faster is better, even when it's not.

  7. #7
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    Thanks guys. Turnaround USA--->UK is indeed a real pain, so I'll be contacting the UK Turner distributor tomorrow morning. With luck, they may have a DHX-A in stock they can send me & I can send this one back to them. Otherwise, I'll send it to Mojo (UK Fox people) for a warrantee repair. Robbz has kindly offered to lend me his spare, so if things look like they're gonna take ages I'll still be able to ride the 'Spot. Good lad!

  8. #8
    DGC
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    I have had 3 lately

    Quote Originally Posted by Pedalhead
    Thanks guys. Turnaround USA--->UK is indeed a real pain, so I'll be contacting the UK Turner distributor tomorrow morning. With luck, they may have a DHX-A in stock they can send me & I can send this one back to them. Otherwise, I'll send it to Mojo (UK Fox people) for a warrantee repair. Robbz has kindly offered to lend me his spare, so if things look like they're gonna take ages I'll still be able to ride the 'Spot. Good lad!
    I have had 3 different shocks that I rebuilt recently that came in with the stuck down deal. 1 shock was a Float, 1 was an RP3, and the other was a DHX-air. For all 3 shocks, I put in the Fox rebuild seal kit, and all 3 are still going with no more issues some weeks later. Not that your shock would be remedied with this but it might, if it is just a seal that the kit would fix, it might save you some long down time if a local shop has the kit and can install it for you, or you can do it yourself.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    OUCH...!!!!!!

  9. #9
    Gravity Rides Everything
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Shorts
    You have the infamous "Stuck Down" issue. It's so prevalent, that Fox included it in their 2006 manual. That problem occurs with the FLoat, Rp3 and DHx air. I had the problem with a 2005 RP3 and a 2006 Rp3. It sucks, doesn't it?

    I'd contact Turner and see if they'll send you a replacement. Otherwise, send it to Fox and they'll fix it.

    The problem occurs because there is a leak between the positive and negative chambers. This is most likely caused by a bad seal or not enough lube in the shock.

    Good Luck.

    assuming there's no other manufacturing defect, wouldn't an airsleeve rebuild kit (~12 dollars at most decent bike shops) fix this problem?

    good luck with that DHX. just remember, all high end bike parts suck.

  10. #10
    MK_
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    Quote Originally Posted by DGC
    I have had 3 different shocks that I rebuilt recently that came in with the stuck down deal. 1 shock was a Float, 1 was an RP3, and the other was a DHX-air. For all 3 shocks, I put in the Fox rebuild seal kit, and all 3 are still going with no more issues some weeks later. Not that your shock would be remedied with this but it might, if it is just a seal that the kit would fix, it might save you some long down time if a local shop has the kit and can install it for you, or you can do it yourself.
    Hey DGC, how careful do you have to be when unscrewing the stuck down air sleeve?
    Is it enough to just deflate the main chamber, cycle the shock, to get whatever air out of the negative, release air again, then press down on the seat to fully compress the shock and unscrew the air sleeve, so it doesn't pop off and fly off? Or is there a better method? I haven't had an issue with the sleeve, but preparing for future.

    _MK

    Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self-esteem, first make sure that you are not just surrounded by a*holes

  11. #11
    dr.harmonica
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trond
    I have a friend who had the exact thing happen to his spot/dhxAir combo. He had 2000feet of singletrack to descend in Verbier when it happened...
    The same thing happened as well to a Kona Dawg Deelux or something that we tested last spring. This was on a RP3.
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  12. #12
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    This thread is freakin' me out. I just decided on ordering a Pack with a DHX-A on it. One of my issues was reliability and I've heard about this "stuck down" issue before. Damn it. I just had to order a new cartridge for my Vanilla, and I do my own seal replacments for my Float AVA right now (mainly because it's cheaper) and I'm sick of having to pay FOX to fix stupid arse problems!!!!!

    But it doesn't seem to be a huge problem to fix this. Anyone know if FOX has solved this problem for '06? Maybe I should get the coil now. Damn it......

  13. #13
    DLd
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    Man that' s a lot of sag, you must be FAT!!

    Quote Originally Posted by ddraewwg
    This thread is freakin' me out. I just decided on ordering a Pack with a DHX-A on it. One of my issues was reliability and I've heard about this "stuck down" issue before. Damn it. I just had to order a new cartridge for my Vanilla, and I do my own seal replacments for my Float AVA right now (mainly because it's cheaper) and I'm sick of having to pay FOX to fix stupid arse problems!!!!!

    But it doesn't seem to be a huge problem to fix this. Anyone know if FOX has solved this problem for '06? Maybe I should get the coil now. Damn it......
    Yeah, that sucks, and it'll probably come without a horst link, double bummer...




    (just rattling the cage, because I can)

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by DLd
    Yeah, that sucks, and it'll probably come without a horst link, double bummer...




    (just rattling the cage, because I can)
    Sag? eh? No comprendo

  15. #15
    DLd
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    Quote Originally Posted by ddraewwg
    Sag? eh? No comprendo
    sag comment was about the picture at the top...

  16. #16
    DGC
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    Push

    Quote Originally Posted by MK_
    Hey DGC, how careful do you have to be when unscrewing the stuck down air sleeve?
    Is it enough to just deflate the main chamber, cycle the shock, to get whatever air out of the negative, release air again, then press down on the seat to fully compress the shock and unscrew the air sleeve, so it doesn't pop off and fly off? Or is there a better method? I haven't had an issue with the sleeve, but preparing for future.

    _MK
    Your mentioned method is what I did on the DHX-a, and did it on the bike. Just kept a good hand full of rags on top of the shock to prevent any damage if it did decide to go airborn speed...!!!!!! The DHX-a did not pop that loud at all, not nearly as loud as a Float did that one of my other mechanics did, and he did not cycle it and re-release air, just went for it. I also as you have not had problems with my shocks yet....I have 2 DHX-a and no stuck down yet.
    I wonder if Darren-PUSH could enlighten us on this some????
    Darren????

    Maybe my title-PUSH will get his attention?
    OUCH...!!!!!!

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pedalhead
    Thanks guys. Turnaround USA--->UK is indeed a real pain, so I'll be contacting the UK Turner distributor tomorrow morning. With luck, they may have a DHX-A in stock they can send me & I can send this one back to them. Otherwise, I'll send it to Mojo (UK Fox people) for a warrantee repair. Robbz has kindly offered to lend me his spare, so if things look like they're gonna take ages I'll still be able to ride the 'Spot. Good lad!
    Good for you to be able to lend one!!

    Have you gotten your own shox yet??


    i just had mine back.
    Tho problem was due the wrong assembly + some rubber pieces inside the shock so mabye the fox have been in a too much of hurry to make these out fast.

    the service center and importer of fox in finland was very fast and helpfull
    the shock is so new that fox had not sended tools yet to fix it , so they had to ask a gunsmith to make tool to press the boost valve chamber of and on. Now lacking the dhx sticker but who cares when i can ride again.

    Did i mention that it is very satisfying to ride wit 5spot gotta snek out from wor very aerly today too to get to ride before the autum rains will really hit and make it all wet.
    "There's no such thing as illegal immigrants, only illegal
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by rikardo
    Good for you to be able to lend one!!

    Have you gotten your own shox yet??


    i just had mine back.
    Tho problem was due the wrong assembly + some rubber pieces inside the shock so mabye the fox have been in a too much of hurry to make these out fast.

    the service center and importer of fox in finland was very fast and helpfull
    the shock is so new that fox had not sended tools yet to fix it , so they had to ask a gunsmith to make tool to press the boost valve chamber of and on. Now lacking the dhx sticker but who cares when i can ride again.

    Did i mention that it is very satisfying to ride wit 5spot gotta snek out from wor very aerly today too to get to ride before the autum rains will really hit and make it all wet.
    Mojo had a really quick turnaround (just a couple of days) & I received my shock back last week. I also seem to have solved the bottom out issue simply by upping the pressure massively in the main chamber...it's now at 240psi for my 185lbs weight, which seems very high, but maybe that's just a characteristic of this shock.

  19. #19
    3 "fiddy" for short
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    Not Me Too!!!

    I think I too have developed the "stuck down" problem although it doesnt seem to be as bad as the one pictured above. I have noticed that the rockers on my spot are no longer parallel with the ground but are pointing slightly toward the ground. Also I can see the wear marks on my shifter cables from where they previously hit the frame and now their location is different which corresponds to the "stuck" shock. The first time that I thought that I might have this problem was when I began to strike my pedals while riding. I rarely had this problem before! The other night I measured the exposed body of the shock and had just over 2" exposed ( I measured from the very bottom to the bottom of the main chamber. Not sure if this is right or not?). Now I have under 2" exposed. I cant believe that this has happened with only about 40 miles on the bike under very light duty I might add. Has anyone found a fix for this or is it off to the shop with this biot@h? OH YEA. Has anyone heard if PUSH is going to work their wonders on the DHX air in the future? That would be the true fix in my opinion!!

    Thanks guys
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  20. #20
    No, that's not phonetic
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    Yours is so mildly stuck-down, it will be easy to fix. Let all the air out of the main chamber (the shock will shrink down towards bottomout due to the air in the neg chamber expanding), and while the shock is still on the bike, grasp the main canister with your hand and break the threads which hold it into the upper cap loose about 1/4 turn. Now take the shock off the bike and pass a long, thin screw driver through the lower eyelet. Wrap the screw driver in a rag very well so that when the canister blows off the shock body propelled by the trapped air it does not dent anything. Double check all the air possible is released from the main chamber, and then holding the shock away from your face and perhaps covered in a towel to stop lube spray, finish unscrewing the canister from the upper part of the shock. It will come free with a "pop".

    Inspect the seals, lube everything with some Slick Honey or heavy shock oil (I mix Slick Honey or Prep M and some fork lube to get a somewhat runny slurry), and reassemble.

    Note that I would not do this operation if the shock is stuck down more than about 1/2" since the pressures in the negative chamber will be too high to safely disassemble. I did take an RP3 apart which was quite stuck down (almost half way) and it blew up good. It blew the body bearings and quad seal out . I picked up the pieces, put it all back together, and I am still riding it to this day .

    I think the main issue is that if your shock lube is too viscous, it gets pushed away from the quad seal which then deprived of lube rolls just enough to let air escape past it during the first compression after sitting. A good insurance policy with Fox air shocks is before hopping on the bike for the first time, cycle the suspension a very small distance a number of times to "wake the seal up." Once it is reminded of it's job, it usually functions great.

    Good luck.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  21. #21
    3 "fiddy" for short
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    Thanks for the info. That is very helpful, but I am wondering if a novice mech. should be doing this? Your thoughts.

  22. #22
    No, that's not phonetic
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    It is so lightly stuck down I think you would have no problems, but I am not going to take responsibility for you accidentally killing your cat or whatever unforseen issues could arise.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  23. #23
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    My Float R PP gave me the stuck down problem last winter. At first, it wasn't so bad, but then on a night ride, it finally stayed down. I had 300psi in there and it would not come up with me on it. So I cracked the canister open, it blew down, and I was set to go for like half an hour.

    I finally called Turner, they said go to Fox because they don't stock seal kits. Fox was actually nice this time and sent me a free seal kit. I changed them out and have had no problems since. Seems their factory seals either shrink, or are undersized enough to allow too much air to bypass into the negative area. I noted the canister was easier to remove with the old seals in place, so I tend to think undersized seals, as well as a combo of shrinkage. Also, the shock began sagging while not even being used.

  24. #24
    No, that's not phonetic
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    Fox buys their seals from some other company. They do test them, but there have been some funky batches.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  25. #25
    3 "fiddy" for short
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    Customer Service

    Well I sent an email to Turner about my stuck shock last night at 10:30 ET and got a call from FOX today at 1:30 ET asking what they could do to help (so far I am pleased with fox cs as well). Turner called Fox and gave them my info and a rundown of the problem before they contacted me. What GREAT customer service. But what can you expect from Turner. WOW!!! I am impressed.

  26. #26
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    Another stuck down victim

    In case no one has sang your praises this week, thanks Tscheezy. My RP3 stuck down when I was out riding in -20C on Wednesday. I was able to get it unstuck by removing the cannister and re-installing. I went with extra thin lube on the seals so it doesn't get too thick in the cold next time. I'll have to try the 'wake up' method on the seals prior to heading out in the cold as well.

    Maybe it's time to put the DHX coil back on for the winter...

    BL
    "Lightweight , durable , inexpensive
    Pick 2."

  27. #27
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    Hey guys, I just followed the previous directions for the stuck down DHX A on my Moment. I know, let the flaming begin. Anyway THANKS!!! especially tscheesy. It's working fine now and I'll test it properly tomorrow. Besides saying thanks and it was prety easy I'd like to add for anyone forced to try it that if you have mounting hardware on the plunger(small) end that is too wide for the wiper seal to slip over then it must be removed before unscrewing the air sleeve. The sleeve will stop on the hardware before releasing the pressure and it's not easy to get it out with a sleeve jammed against it. Thanks again, you guys made my day!
    Off season? What off season?

  28. #28
    No, that's not phonetic
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    Glad to hear it worked out.

    For the record, we don't dislike Ellsworth bikes, we dislike Tony "grab your ankles" E.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by tscheezy
    Fox buys their seals from some other company. They do test them, but there have been some funky batches.
    Two years worth of funky batches.

  30. #30
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    Eh, he may be a peckerhead and I wouldn't dispute it but the bike is sweeeet and the customer service I've recieved from them has been awesome. In the end it was between the Moment and the 6 pack. I got the moment because I loved my Id like some sort of sensitive body part and I haven't had a chance to put a real ride on a Turner. Sucks what tony did about the Turner Horst link.
    Off season? What off season?

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by OnTheMoment
    Hey guys, I just followed the previous directions for the stuck down DHX A on my Moment. I know, let the flaming begin. Anyway THANKS!!! especially tscheesy. It's working fine now and I'll test it properly tomorrow. Besides saying thanks and it was prety easy I'd like to add for anyone forced to try it that if you have mounting hardware on the plunger(small) end that is too wide for the wiper seal to slip over then it must be removed before unscrewing the air sleeve. The sleeve will stop on the hardware before releasing the pressure and it's not easy to get it out with a sleeve jammed against it. Thanks again, you guys made my day!
    I was inspired by tscheezy's advice to use shock oil in my Float and it seems to have remedied the symptoms, as well as making it more responsive, especially in the cold. I was previously using Prep M, and then I decided to not leave well enough alone and service my shock (not changing the q rings or the seals)after 1 year of good performance after an air chamber rebuild due to stuck down. So two rides later, stuck down. I removed the cylinder again, added shock oil on top of the piston as a reservoir and it works much better than ever. I have also noticed that it seems I have more damper shaft showing than I ever have with this shock, so I'm led to believe oil is best. I will add more over time via the air valve when needed.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by OnTheMoment
    Eh, he may be a peckerhead and I wouldn't dispute it but the bike is sweeeet and the customer service I've recieved from them has been awesome. In the end it was between the Moment and the 6 pack. I got the moment because I loved my Id like some sort of sensitive body part and I haven't had a chance to put a real ride on a Turner. Sucks what tony did about the Turner Horst link.
    Plenty of business to go around without resorting to dirty tricks. He will not get a single dollar from me and the new "good" attitude was forced by the fact that Ew's bad deals in the past were catching up with him in the public eye.

  33. #33
    I've got a Stiffee
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    I was inspired by tscheezy's advice to use shock oil in my Float and it seems to have remedied the symptoms, as well as making it more responsive, especially in the cold. I was previously using Prep M, and then I decided to not leave well enough alone and service my shock (not changing the q rings or the seals)after 1 year of good performance after an air chamber rebuild due to stuck down. So two rides later, stuck down. I removed the cylinder again, added shock oil on top of the piston as a reservoir and it works much better than ever. I have also noticed that it seems I have more damper shaft showing than I ever have with this shock, so I'm led to believe oil is best. I will add more over time via the air valve when needed.
    Good advice. I'm currently waiting on a seal kit for my DHX-air which is having an air leak issue. What weight fork oil and about how much did you put in there?

  34. #34
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    Ok, I smeared some of the Float Fluid, which is a thicker, blue fluid in a pillow pack with the seals. I smeared it inside the canister and the piston. Used a small amount of it. Then I put the canister on, and poured enough 10wt shock oil to cover the circumference of the piston. This means a circle of fluid where the piston meets the canister wall and a slight amount more. Maybe this is 5-10 cc's? I screwed the canister back on and I'm done. I believe this to keep the seals from shrinking too much, grease getting between the wall and the seal under dynamic conditions(causing a leak into the negative), and rolling over due to drag.

  35. #35
    No, that's not phonetic
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    Use about 5-10 drops of 10wt or heavier (I use 15 or 20 when I have it). Any more than a few drops and you will fill the negative chamber totally and get a hard top out.

    EDIT: TNC just posted a letter from Fox to shops stating that stuck down shocks are so prevalent that they consider it a warranty issue deserving of them paying for shipping both ways to fix the i2i challenged shocks. They blame a bad batch of seals (where have I heard that before ). Check it out.
    Last edited by tscheezy; 01-10-2006 at 10:25 PM.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  36. #36
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    Has anybody had problems with this issue repeating itself after tscheesy's treatment? I don't have any fork oil or slick honey in my little apt so I'm hoping triflow and park grease will be ok untill I can get some from my shop.
    Off season? What off season?

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by tscheezy
    Use about 5-10 drops of 10wt or heavier (I use 15 or 20 when I have it). Any more than a few drops and you will fill the negative chamber totally and get a hard top out.

    EDIT: TNC just posted a letter from Fox to shops stating that stuck down shocks are so prevalent that they consider it a warranty issue deserving of them paying for shipping both ways to fix the i2i challenged shocks. They blame a bad batch of seals (where have I heard that before ). Check it out.
    I don't think filling the negative will be an issue, since the seals are designed one-way and will let oil and grease flow outward, thus the film on the damper body. I have filled the air chamber up with tons of grease with no ill effects, same with the oil. I have a couple hundred hard miles on mine since I used oil and there is no harsh top out. The oil still slicks down the damper shaft, though.

    Thanks for the link, though. It's finally nice to hear Fox admit to something wrong, instead of the dreaded "Oh, this is the first we've heard of this".

  38. #38
    Amphibious Technologies
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    Looks like this issue is quite prevalent as indicated in
    this thread.
    "The best you've ridden is the best you know" - Paul Thede, Race Tech

  39. #39
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    Funny,we sell Yeti and Turner and have sold a ton of 06 air stuff and no one has called or come in to complain. Good luck i guess.

    Also funny is in our letter it says NOT to take it apart yourself or serious injury could occur.

    For people reading up here considering buying Fox Air stuff and is sketched out,Fox has been using this system for many years now and this has rarely been a problem in the past.

    They say that their supplier changed spec on the seal without them knowing.I would assume that after a new seal kit (with the good specs) that this won't be a reacurring problem

    Krispy.

  40. #40
    No, that's not phonetic
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    When the piston seal passes the equalization dimple in the canister body, air can escape from the positive chamber to the negative (an vice versa). This is how the negative chamber self-adjusts to changes in main spring pressure. This equalization also allows anything other than air to pass into and out of the negative chamber, including oil. The neg chamber is quite small (at topout). It would not take much oil to fill it and eliminate its usefullness, so I guess I'm saying, don't go totally nuts. This may be more important on the RP3 where I can obiously see the dimple. I can't actually see one on the DHX A so I am only assuming it works on the same negative chamber principle. This may not be true as I put some oil on top of the main piston but it never seemed to reach the lower wiper shaft. Last night I pulled the air can all the way off and put oil in the lower part of the canister below the piston (along with some Slick Honey on the shaft wiper bearing and seals).

    This is not a permanent fix. You will need to replenish the oil in a few months when it has migrated out of the shock past the seals.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  41. #41
    Carpe Noctem
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    311
    One of my coworkers has an 05 Yeti 575 with an RP3 that has been stuck down and back to fox twice.
    Off season? What off season?

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