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  1. #1
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    New question here. Materials post on Turners.....

    Hey Turner Folks,

    Below is a brief e-mail I shot off to Casey on Friday. His response follows and still no surety. Does anyone know the answer to this?



    QUOTE:
    Hey Casey, thanks again for the tips and info. I was happy to see that your
    bikes are made here in
    the USA. Then I thought to myself, "where are they getting the materials
    (ie.aluminum) to produce
    these machines and what type of labor laws are the people coming up with
    these materials subjected
    to?" To the best of my knowledge, there are very few mines left in this
    country leaving companies
    with no choice, but to buy overseas where labor laws are less strict and
    where America turns the
    rest of the world into their factories. Surely, with all the conscious
    thought and energy you guys
    have put into your design and execution, you must have passed over these
    thoughts yourselves.
    Would it be possible to supply supplemental information on your production
    process since I was not
    able to locate that information on your website? Thanks again in advance for
    the schooling and I
    hope you have a great weekend.

    Best Regards,

    alexander



    Alexander,

    To be completely honest, I don't know where the raw materials to produce
    our frames are made.

    Thanks
    Casey
    QUOTE
    It's all cycle-logical to me.

  2. #2
    No, that's not phonetic
    Reputation: tscheezy's Avatar
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    Why not call SAPA, the manufacturer where Turners are made? They would know the tube manufacturers and distributors (or does SAPA extrude their own?), and they in turn would know where the ore is mined/smelted.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  3. #3
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    Tscheezy to the rescue

    Quote Originally Posted by tscheezy
    Why not call SAPA, the manufacturer where Turners are made? They would know the tube manufacturers and distributors (or does SAPA extrude their own?), and they in turn would know where the ore is mined/smelted.
    Thanks Tscheezy, once again for your feedback. You always seem to know what's up. This is one of the last issues for me to mull over before making my choice. Sort of an ethical one as I want to support close to home products, which are environmentally respectful as well as ethically. I just sent a request to SAPA to find out the scoop.
    It's all cycle-logical to me.

  4. #4
    No, that's not phonetic
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    Good luck finding an environmentally respectful mining company.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  5. #5
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    what to do

    Quote Originally Posted by tscheezy
    Good luck finding an environmentally respectful mining company.
    It's a catch 22. I love riding, but now that I'm older, I try to make more responsible decisions. You win some and you lose some. I am trying to justify the need to still ride, so this is one last hurdle to overcome.
    It's all cycle-logical to me.

  6. #6
    Tonight we ride.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tscheezy
    Good luck finding an environmentally respectful mining company.
    Chris King finds 'em so it's possible. Domestic too IIRC. But I have a feeling Nimai would be better off if he doesn't find out. Concentrate on the fact that it's made in the USA, so the employees get paid decently and the manufacturing process is subject to at least some environmental standards.

  7. #7
    Toby Wong?
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    you are a tremendous nerd.

    if knowing whether your tubeset came from an environmentally-friendly mine is going to help you justify riding a bike, then you need to get a f'ing grip, man. Seriously.

    if that's the case, cause you're soooo damn responsible, why don't you examine it all.....the components, the gloves, the little pads in your Giro helmet?

    shut up and ride.
    Last edited by Tappoix; 04-26-2004 at 02:39 PM.

  8. #8
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    My heart sinks when I read a response such as what Tappoix has written. One would hope within the small mountain biking community we would show some tolerence. I would not go to the extemes Nimai feels the need to, but that is no reason to call him a "loser." Good luck Nimai. Peace Tappoix.

  9. #9
    Toby Wong?
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    Quote Originally Posted by jennasdad
    My heart sinks when I read a response such as what Tappoix has written. One would hope within the small mountain biking community we would show some tolerence. I would not go to the extemes Nimai feels the need to, but that is no reason to call him a "loser." Good luck Nimai. Peace Tappoix.
    hey, i understand....it's a rough world out there and I wish I could be as thoughtful and kind on every post I make. Just a dose of tough love. Slightly edited to be slightly kinder.

  10. #10
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    Tappoix: nice! Thanks, you made me feel better.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nimai
    Hey Turner Folks,

    Below is a brief e-mail I shot off to Casey on Friday. His response follows and still no surety. Does anyone know the answer to this?
    I wish you luck.

    Out of curiousity, do you know the answers to those questions for ANY bike manufacturer? What if you find that they all use tubes from environmentally bankrupt sources? Will you drive a car instead (of course the car has way more questionable issues)?

    Post back if you get any answers. I'm curious to see their responses.

  12. #12
    FM
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    luxatio erecta
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    I'm sure most aluminum comes from recycled sources. My RFX was made from 3 cracked SantaCruz superlights!



    Quote Originally Posted by WarrGuru
    I wish you luck.

    Out of curiousity, do you know the answers to those questions for ANY bike manufacturer? What if you find that they all use tubes from environmentally bankrupt sources? Will you drive a car instead (of course the car has way more questionable issues)?

    Post back if you get any answers. I'm curious to see their responses.

  13. #13
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    reminds me of old times

    Quote Originally Posted by Tappoix
    you are a tremendous nerd.

    if knowing whether your tubeset came from an environmentally-friendly mine is going to help you justify riding a bike, then you need to get a f'ing grip, man. Seriously.

    if that's the case, cause you're soooo damn responsible, why don't you examine it all.....the components, the gloves, the little pads in your Giro helmet?

    shut up and ride.

    Hey Tappoix,

    Thanks for the tough love. It reminds me of when I was a kid and the other guys on the football team would tease me for not wanting to break the offending teams legs during a tackle. Although we do not know each other apart from these message boards I hope that you don't hold my ethical decisions against me. Maybe I should have posted this one on the religious/socio/political board. Please excuse me. I guess I tend to be overly analytical and wind up in an analysis paralysis. Anyhow, thanks again for the feedback and I appreciate what you other Turner folks have to say as well. That's why we all right here........different strokes for different folks.

    Anyhow, I will let the rest of you know when I find out from SAPA what's up with the origins and compiling of materials for Turner bikes.
    Last edited by Nimai; 04-26-2004 at 04:09 PM.
    It's all cycle-logical to me.

  14. #14
    Roy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nimai
    Anyhow, I will let the rest of you know when I find out from SAPA what's up with the origins and compiling of materials for Turner bikes.
    Davide - is that you?

  15. #15
    Toby Wong?
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    like someone else said, you will make a bigger impact riding your bike instead of riding in a car....lord knows our fossil fuel burners make their impact felt in so many negative ways

    stop worrying about it and just ride.

  16. #16
    JLP
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tappoix
    like someone else said, you will make a bigger impact riding your bike instead of riding in a car....lord knows our fossil fuel burners make their impact felt in so many negative ways

    stop worrying about it and just ride.
    I agree. Just ride man. You'll worry yourself to death

  17. #17
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    Maybe from Australia?

    I think Australia has some of the largest bauxite (the raw ore of aluminium) reserves in the world, and a lot of the bauxite is then smelted in New Zealand (we have cheap electricity). Most of it then goes to Japan and perhaps the States, though I have the feeling that the States gets a lot of aluminium from Brazil.

    If it's from Australia then the environmental standards and treatment for workers etc would be better than most places. It would be nice to imagine our frames were made out of recycled cans, but perhaps there are other issues with metal quality and so on that prevent this.

    And while cars do have their place and advantages (I don't want Pete to bite my head off again), bikes definately win when it comes to environmental and health factors.

  18. #18
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    electrons droping out of the wire

    naturaly there exists no pure aluminium on earth.
    to produce aluminium from ore (I think Al2O3 or Bauxit) you need lots of electricity.
    unfortunately the electrons droping out of the wire do know nothing
    about the force which presses them through it.
    So you would temporarily need to switch all NPP's off while producing the Al-metal (from bauxit-ore) for your frame?

  19. #19
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    Smile your thoughts are appreciated

    Quote Originally Posted by steve3
    Nimai's heart is in the right place, but one can only go so far in sacrificing their love. The effort you made is good enough. Just keep riding.

    One person can't make a difference right away, but many can over time.
    Hey Steve3, thanks for the inspiration. I am actually considering the burner based mostly on your reviews from this board. I tried the 5 spot briefly and the XCE but figured with the supergo blowout, the build of the burner and considering the trails by me, I could get the best of both worlds with the burner. By the way, thanks to all the others out there for your support. I am in the process of helping my GF sell her car and thinking of getting a burner and an sc chameleon (say what you will) with the burner set up for trails and the latter as an SS. Now she wants to get into riding a bit more and already has a Cannondale (yipes), and wants to SS it for simplicity. That's all I was looking for when I wrote those other posts. I just thought I was being an educated consumer which you folks could appreciate. To each his own.
    It's all cycle-logical to me.

  20. #20
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    Justify the need to ride? Are you nuts?.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nimai
    It's a catch 22. I love riding, but now that I'm older, I try to make more responsible decisions. You win some and you lose some. I am trying to justify the need to still ride, so this is one last hurdle to overcome.
    You've got this backwards. Especially as you get older you need to justify not riding. So go out in your backyard, make a bike out of whatever keeps you at peace and go ride. Just don't kill any grass or anything.

    And remember, politically and environmentally incorrect miners are people too.....

  21. #21
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    Ok by the time you found out and feel comfortable with where the tubes came from, start your research on the deraileur, QR, every bolt/nuts, the rubber, fork oil...

  22. #22
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    I get your drift

    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen7
    Ok by the time you found out and feel comfortable with where the tubes came from, start your research on the deraileur, QR, every bolt/nuts, the rubber, fork oil...
    Thanks point taken I'm sure Oh yeah the fork oil. Now who do we have to bomb to get some of that And the rubber, which I'm sure covers land in some third world country that serves as a cash crop, but could rather be used to feed it's own people. Just don't forget that cradle to grave you got someone helping you out every step of the way. Just tryin' to mind my choices that's all
    It's all cycle-logical to me.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nimai
    Thanks point taken I'm sure Oh yeah the fork oil. Now who do we have to bomb to get some of that
    Nobody, you just get the Noleen Air Fork that everyone has been talking about on the Shock Board. Uses Air only and no oil. You could get a Cane Creek Rear shock and get ride of the oil in the rear shock also.

    P.S.- I can't believe I am support this discussion.

  24. #24
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    ... and if we just ...

    Quote Originally Posted by FM
    I'm sure most aluminum comes from recycled sources. My RFX was made from 3 cracked SantaCruz superlights!
    I have an old washing machine that can be used.

    I believe there was a little known guy called Graham Obree who was quite successful in building a bike from one of these domestic appliances.

    Bazza

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