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  1. #1
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    New question here. large-air-volume or AVA RP3 modification for 5-spot worth anything?

    Hi, I remember several threads a while back stating that the Fox Float RP3 is less linear than a coil-over shock, and as a result it is harder for it to use the full travel in the 5-spot. The same threads also stated that teh DHX-Air is more linear, and that the new linkage for 2006 will also help in this arena.

    I just saw in the latest MBAction a review of a Santa-Cruz Blur LT, which has a large air volume Fox Float RP3 [maybe it was an AVA - couldn't tell]. Does anyone have experience with a large-air-volume RP3 or AVA on a 5-spot, and can compare it to a standard RP3?

    I have seen in the past that the Fox Float shock can be easily and cheaply upgraded to the AVA version. For RP3 users, perhaps this is the ticket to a more linear action, which will use the 5-spot rear shock as originally intended?

    Thanks for any comments!
    Tal

  2. #2
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    The RP3 that's spec'd on the BLT is a custom, non-adjustable AVA version.

    Turner changed the length of the rockers on the frames shipped with the RP3 to take care of the ramp up at the end of travel.

    It makes sense that an AVA version would tend to ramp up less.

    Give DT a call and find out. I'd be curious to know why Turner didn't specify an AVA i the first place.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Shorts
    The RP3 that's spec'd on the BLT is a custom, non-adjustable AVA version.

    Turner changed the length of the rockers on the frames shipped with the RP3 to take care of the ramp up at the end of travel.

    It makes sense that an AVA version would tend to ramp up less.

    Give DT a call and find out. I'd be curious to know why Turner didn't specify an AVA i the first place.
    Actually the reason for the longer rockers was had nothing to do with the rp3 in fact ( This is what Turner told me - not what my thoughts are ) the rockers were changed for the dhx air - it had something to do with the bottom out bumper on the dhx air being much bigger than that of the rp3 ( & i think the romic ) which actually caused the dhx to get less travel than the 5" that it should - I am sure I may get ripped for this analogy but just call turner on this - this is what I was told by Jared ( I think thats his name )

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    So are the rockers different for each shock, or are they the same ones throughout the line?

  5. #5
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    [QUOTE=ayce]Actually the reason for the longer rockers was had nothing to do with the rp3 in fact ( This is what Turner told me - not what my thoughts are ) the rockers were changed for the dhx air QUOTE]

    Not so, according to an August post by DT

    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.ph...04061#poststop

    DT wrote:

    "I have found over the years that different variations of shocks and certianly different brands of shock have a different compressed length. The first Spot rocker calc'd out just about 5, as some of you have measured with the Romic. Then when I spec'd the RP3 I bumped the travel as the bottoming ring inside the Fox is very rigid as well as the rising rate of the air spring. I did not want to get caught selling 4.8 Spots. It just don't sound as cool. So I tweaked the rocker a little to give a very similar achieved travel.Now with Fox introducing the DHXa that has a more linear feel and seems to get a full 2" pretty easily with no bang at the end in the trail riding I have done. Now the bike is getting over 5". "

  6. #6
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    [QUOTE=Blue Shorts]
    Quote Originally Posted by ayce
    Actually the reason for the longer rockers was had nothing to do with the rp3 in fact ( This is what Turner told me - not what my thoughts are ) the rockers were changed for the dhx air QUOTE]

    Not so, according to an August post by DT

    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.ph...04061#poststop

    DT wrote:

    "I have found over the years that different variations of shocks and certianly different brands of shock have a different compressed length. The first Spot rocker calc'd out just about 5, as some of you have measured with the Romic. Then when I spec'd the RP3 I bumped the travel as the bottoming ring inside the Fox is very rigid as well as the rising rate of the air spring. I did not want to get caught selling 4.8 Spots. It just don't sound as cool. So I tweaked the rocker a little to give a very similar achieved travel.Now with Fox introducing the DHXa that has a more linear feel and seems to get a full 2" pretty easily with no bang at the end in the trail riding I have done. Now the bike is getting over 5". "

    Bottom Line: If I have an spot that came with a Romic, I would want to get different/newer rockers for the RP3 I'll be running? Or even the DHX air?
    Astigmatic Visionary

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by S-Works
    Bottom Line: If I have an spot that came with a Romic, I would want to get different/newer rockers for the RP3 I'll be running? Or even the DHX air?
    I don't know aobut the DHX, but Turner spec'd the longer rockers with the RP3. I haven't tried the longer rockers, yet. I have them and will try them soon.

    With the standard rockers (the one's that came with the Romic), my 2006 RP3 tends to not get full travel unless I go with 30% or more sag. I prefer 25% sag.

  8. #8
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    DT wrote:

    "I have found over the years that different variations of shocks and certianly different brands of shock have a different compressed length. The first Spot rocker calc'd out just about 5, as some of you have measured with the Romic. Then when I spec'd the RP3 I bumped the travel as the bottoming ring inside the Fox is very rigid as well as the rising rate of the air spring. I did not want to get caught selling 4.8 Spots. It just don't sound as cool. So I tweaked the rocker a little to give a very similar achieved travel.Now with Fox introducing the DHXa that has a more linear feel and seems to get a full 2" pretty easily with no bang at the end in the trail riding I have done. Now the bike is getting over 5". "[/QUOTE]

    Thats interesting.. see one person says one thing & another says something different and they are both from the same company. I am just going by what Jared told me about a month ago.. It really doesnt matter I have a pushed 06 rp3 & get full travel with no type of ramp up at all, I had a 05 pushed rp3 as well which was equally as great - I tried the dhx air & to be honest I was not crazy about it - went back to the pushed rp3 - i definetly felt that there was no mid stroke support.. felt nice in the begining on the small stuff but then blew threw its travel & didn't feel that great I tried many different setups & I surely did not like the little nic it put in my frame may be it was me ( and it probably was me ) but for the type of riding we have here the pushed rp3 is still the best IMO.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Shorts
    Now the bike is getting over 5". "
    According to Jarett at Turner new spot is getting 5.3" travel with DHX.

    I had experience with 6.5 X 1.5 float R AVA and I did feel the difference vs. regular float. Not on a spot.AVA set at max air volume made the suspension more fluid during entire travel of the shock.Downside of older AVA is that you can not adjust it on the fly. The shock had to be cycled before changing the AVA setting then inflated again. I don't know about the current AVA and how it works. Regular float R was plush in the beginning of the travel but then got stiff. It felt as if first 1/2 of the travel was setup for plush trail riding on tech stuff and 2nd 1/2 felt like a XC setup for a mainly smooth fireroad race course.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Shorts
    I don't know aobut the DHX, but Turner spec'd the longer rockers with the RP3. I haven't tried the longer rockers, yet. I have them and will try them soon.

    With the standard rockers (the one's that came with the Romic), my 2006 RP3 tends to not get full travel unless I go with 30% or more sag. I prefer 25% sag.

    where did you get the longer rockers from?

  11. #11
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    RP3 Rockers

    Quote Originally Posted by Robbz
    where did you get the longer rockers from?
    I've emailed Turner about them. Expect to hear something monday. I'll post their response.
    Astigmatic Visionary

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Shorts
    I don't know aobut the DHX, but Turner spec'd the longer rockers with the RP3. I haven't tried the longer rockers, yet. I have them and will try them soon.
    Yeah, how did you get a hold of those rockers?

    _MK
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  13. #13
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    mute point

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Shorts
    The RP3 that's spec'd on the BLT is a custom, non-adjustable AVA version.

    Turner changed the length of the rockers on the frames shipped with the RP3 to take care of the ramp up at the end of travel.

    It makes sense that an AVA version would tend to ramp up less.

    Give DT a call and find out. I'd be curious to know why Turner didn't specify an AVA i the first place.
    If I am not mistaken fox does not make an AVA adjuster for the RP3 in the required size for a turner. Since they increased the float/rp3 air volume in 2005 the AVA sleeve is only available on longer shock lengths.

  14. #14
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    Good job! Straight from the source!!!

    Hi all. I posted my original question to Turner's support, and got the following detailed answer straight from DT. Thanks DT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    The Fox supplied charts I have seen show the RP3 and the AVA to have almost exactly the same air volume when the AVA is at Max volume setting. So an AVA is only good for a falling rate bike where you need to decrease the volume to compensate for the link.

    I think that PUSH has a larger volume RP3 can that would level out the air spring curve and make the rear more linear. The DHX does have more air volume and with the difference in the way the shock internals work make for a more linear feel.

    There is no new linkage for 2006. The linkage was changed almost a year ago for the RP3. It does not notably change the rate, but adds .2" of travel to compensate for an air springs in general and the RP3 in particular hard curve at the end of the stroke. This rocker gives a calculated 5.3" at the rear wheel. The old rocker was 5.1 with the romic. Actual travel may vary depending on shock makers tolerances and bottom out bumper thickness.

    Have fun

    David Turner

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by S-Works
    Bottom Line: If I have an spot that came with a Romic, I would want to get different/newer rockers for the RP3 I'll be running? Or even the DHX air?
    Get a PUSH RP3, it is a much better shock than the standard RP3 and you get full travel with no problem at all. You can get same very valuable info from the posts around her http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.ph...52#post1144552 and here http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.ph...22#post1163022

    From what I read in this thread it is very unclear why the 5-spot went to (slightly) longer rockers, the contraddictory posting (including DT) confirm my feeling that there is very little science in the way these frames are developed and modified. Of course all this is moot since the original 5-spot is no longer in production ...
    Last edited by Davide; 10-31-2005 at 08:02 PM.

  16. #16
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    Enough...

    Quote Originally Posted by Davide
    Get a PUSH RP3, it is a much better shock than the standard RP3 and you get full travel with no problem at all. You can get same very valuable info from the posts around her http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.ph...52#post1144552 and here http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.ph...22#post1163022

    From what I read in this thread it is very unclear why the 5-spot went to (slightly) longer rockers, the contraddictory posting (including DT) confirm my feeling that there is very little science in the way these frames are developed and modified. Of course all this is moot since the original 5-spot is no longer in production ...
    Right that's it, you're back on my ignore list as you are a poo stain on the ass of humanity.

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