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  1. #1
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    Just saw the new Ventana lineup

    the new LaBruja or El Terremot 6.0 are absolutely sick. The design is same as TNT
    I do like my 5 Spot a lot, and haven't had it that long really, only since last Thanksgiving
    I am still dialing it in actually!

    anyhoo, the geomery of the 6.0 is very sweet and the bb height is perfect. the LaBruja is too much bike for most of the stuff around SW Idaho.......

  2. #2
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    And if DT doesn't come up with a hardtail frame real quick I'm gonna have to buy that El Torro!
    Former Homer...Ventana convert: extreme poseur!

  3. #3
    Neg reppers r my biatches
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbkrdr98
    the new LaBruja or El Terremot 6.0 are absolutely sick. The design is same as TNT
    I do like my 5 Spot a lot, and haven't had it that long really, only since last Thanksgiving
    I am still dialing it in actually!

    anyhoo, the geomery of the 6.0 is very sweet and the bb height is perfect. the LaBruja is too much bike for most of the stuff around SW Idaho.......
    no doubt...the Terremoto was my first choice for sure and had I predicted I would of course blow the budget RFX concept, I would have just got it to begin with. The RFX will be fine so I aint terribly upset but still....

    Squeaky Buttcrack is getting one.....El Beastro has one ordered as well so they will look very cute holding hands on the doubletrack with matching bikes.

    Seriously though, the geometry is great, 1.5" headtube is nice option and if you dont like the geo, you can always go custom which really sets ventana apart. Enough of the sales for Ventana....i forgot where i was for a second.

  4. #4
    Living the Dream
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    Yeah the Terremotto has great geometry

    That bike is really tempting me. I would have to pay extra to get it in electric blue metallic unless I saw a picture of a built up super dust that looked OK. The bike just looks so burly and has a great TT lenght, BB height, & HA.
    "And I shout that your all fakes and you should have seen the look on your face"

  5. #5
    Roy
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    I like it because it has the classic front triangle. I don't care for the aesthetics of the X-5/La Bruja style triangles.

  6. #6
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    Agree

    The X5 & new La Bruja are hideous. To be honest, I prefer the Turners in looks, I just love the El T's geometry.
    "And I shout that your all fakes and you should have seen the look on your face"

  7. #7
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    I Second That . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Bling
    And if DT doesn't come up with a hardtail frame real quick I'm gonna have to buy that El Torro!
    I'd buy a Turner HT in a second . . . . it could be made out of moldy balsa wood, for all I care.

    Just as long as it kept the TNT susp.

  8. #8
    Bodhisattva
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    Full suspension Ventanas are cool because Fo doesn't have one but wants one
    “Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep moving.”

    ― Albert Einstein

  9. #9
    Neg reppers r my biatches
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel
    Full suspension Ventanas are cool because Fo doesn't have one but wants one
    anybody want a never used RFX? Only miles on it are those of the FedEx truck delivering it as I type this.

  10. #10
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    The new Terra is super sick, we're gonna build up one to try as a demo.
    The geo's there and it's got Ventana quality, but unfortunately it also has the Ventana pivot location. Betcha 100 pushups the RFX rides better. Nothin like climbing on a bike with a pivot BELOW the freakin granny ring!!! The Venty in the 22 feels like the RFX in the 32. It may be OK on a 4" bike with yer body position all foreward but on a 6" bike with a coil shock forgetaboutit. Better get a solid platform shock if you wanna do 30 mile rides unless you're just out to bang berms...or look pretty.
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  11. #11
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    so you're saying the pivot positions on the Ventana's lend to bobbing? I am surprised; Sherwood knows what he's doing. hmmm

    my buddy mentioned to me last night that others found something about the Ventana's riding different, (as compared to the Turners) and not in a good way........hmmm

    I highly respect both builders quality for sure tho

  12. #12
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    Well, when your chainforce is significantly above the pivot you're gonna get some bobbing.

    My new RFX for example is actually a hint firm in the granny(feels good), a little soft in the middle(feels good)

    The Venty is a hair soft in the granny(feels good), and pretty soft in the middle(feels OK but noticeable, bugs me)

    Sherwood doesn't want to move the pivot up because
    1He would have to machine new yokes that would have to be narrower/offset to clear the f der.
    2 His customers don't complain about it.

    Throw a TNT turner in the big ring and hammer it around.That's how a Ventana feels in the middle. If it feels good to you then.... it feels good to you!
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  13. #13
    Neg reppers r my biatches
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    Quote Originally Posted by krispy@go-ride.com
    The new Terra is super sick, we're gonna build up one to try as a demo.
    The geo's there and it's got Ventana quality, but unfortunately it also has the Ventana pivot location. Betcha 100 pushups the RFX rides better. Nothin like climbing on a bike with a pivot BELOW the freakin granny ring!!! The Venty in the 22 feels like the RFX in the 32. It may be OK on a 4" bike with yer body position all foreward but on a 6" bike with a coil shock forgetaboutit. Better get a solid platform shock if you wanna do 30 mile rides unless you're just out to bang berms...or look pretty.
    interesting observation......

    have you found this to be the case "in general" with bikes having main pivots in that same location or only Ventana?

    I wish I had a side by side pic of the main pivot location.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by FoShizzle
    interesting observation......

    have you found this to be the case "in general" with bikes having main pivots in that same location or only Ventana?

    I wish I had a side by side pic of the main pivot location.
    Yes, mostly.

    You gotta add up 3 things-
    pivot location
    bb height
    initial plushness.

    Ventanas are generally low,plush and all have low pivots.The short rockers are radically progressive which means really soft initially. The lower the BB the more foreward the axle path will be.

    most of the 100+ bikes with the "bb pivot" put the pivot in line with a 22. Ventys are one of the only ones that are actually below.

    I had a Titis Locomoto that had a pivot in line with the granny and back a bit. But the BB was 14plus and was falling rate. It was fine in the middle-eccept it was never plush feeling and generally sucked.

    I hate to dog Ventys because i have huge respect for Sherwoods work and my Cuervo was mind blowing but if enough people are vocal about this then maybe he will listen.Then we're all in trouble!! Yummmmm...SuperDust....!!!
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  15. #15
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    Well I do have to say I like another vote and reason to love my Spot.

  16. #16
    beer is good
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    I don't know....that bb looks a bit low at 13.8" for a 6 inch bike?
    wonder what fork they used?
    Steve
    "looking California, feeling Minnesota"

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Bling
    And if DT doesn't come up with a hardtail frame real quick I'm gonna have to buy that El Torro!

    Second that--what a sweet frame!

  18. #18
    Neg reppers r my biatches
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    Quote Originally Posted by krispy@go-ride.com
    Yes, mostly.

    You gotta add up 3 things-
    pivot location
    bb height
    initial plushness.

    Ventanas are generally low,plush and all have low pivots.The short rockers are radically progressive which means really soft initially. The lower the BB the more foreward the axle path will be.

    most of the 100+ bikes with the "bb pivot" put the pivot in line with a 22. Ventys are one of the only ones that are actually below.

    I had a Titis Locomoto that had a pivot in line with the granny and back a bit. But the BB was 14plus and was falling rate. It was fine in the middle-eccept it was never plush feeling and generally sucked.

    I hate to dog Ventys because i have huge respect for Sherwoods work and my Cuervo was mind blowing but if enough people are vocal about this then maybe he will listen.Then we're all in trouble!! Yummmmm...SuperDust....!!!
    you are entitled to your opinion of course but the stiffness of the ventana is amazing in my humble opinion. certainly pivot location may contribute, though i have no data on file. no bike is best in all regards but at least to date, Ventana gets my vote.

  19. #19
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    Did I hear you right? ...vote for ventana, ride a turner?

    -Sp

    Quote Originally Posted by FoShizzle
    you are entitled to your opinion of course but the stiffness of the ventana is amazing in my humble opinion. certainly pivot location may contribute, though i have no data on file. no bike is best in all regards but at least to date, Ventana gets my vote.

  20. #20
    Neg reppers r my biatches
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    Quote Originally Posted by SinglePivot
    Did I hear you right? ...vote for ventana, ride a turner?

    -Sp
    indeed....."to date", a Ventana for sure. In fairness, I have not yet received my Turner (today).

    the problem for me is gonna be to even remember what a FS feels like. it has been well over a year since i rode a FS bike. good news is many of my friends (including the one i sold my X5 to) have Ventanas so I can perhaps switch back and forth on rides. Though I really need to grow some balls back to push the bike and honestly, ANY FS bike is gonna feel like a sofa on wheels to me right now, Turner, Ventana, or otherwise.

    and for the record, i also own a ventana

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by FoShizzle
    and for the record, i also own a ventana
    Only one? Oh, so you're off the back with that crowd, too...

    Seriously, when you get this baby you need to post up lots of pics, as if you need to be prodded.
    Plus, a honest ride report. You had a semi-heavyweight X-5 in the past, I'm curious as to how they compare (and I'm sure others are too).

    As far as the color scheme, I think even CF would have to admit that you've out-blinged him in that regard...even though yours is a budget build.

  22. #22
    Neg reppers r my biatches
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCinSC
    Only one? Oh, so you're off the back with that crowd, too...

    Seriously, when you get this baby you need to post up lots of pics, as if you need to be prodded.
    Plus, a honest ride report. You had a semi-heavyweight X-5 in the past, I'm curious as to how they compare (and I'm sure others are too).

    As far as the color scheme, I think even CF would have to admit that you've out-blinged him in that regard...even though yours is a budget build.
    will do, though like I said, will be REAL tough for a while to have any good input being so long off a FS bike and will be really long before i grow even something resembling huevos back to do anything but curb drops

    Yeah, I had a 6" travel 33 lb bike so sort of close to the build i am getting.

    Will definitely post pics later....bike is due to arrive at 4:30! I hope my wife is home to sign for it though

  23. #23
    Bodhisattva
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    Quote Originally Posted by krispy@go-ride.com
    The new Terra is super sick, we're gonna build up one to try as a demo.
    The geo's there and it's got Ventana quality, but unfortunately it also has the Ventana pivot location. Betcha 100 pushups the RFX rides better. Nothin like climbing on a bike with a pivot BELOW the freakin granny ring!!! The Venty in the 22 feels like the RFX in the 32. It may be OK on a 4" bike with yer body position all foreward but on a 6" bike with a coil shock forgetaboutit. Better get a solid platform shock if you wanna do 30 mile rides unless you're just out to bang berms...or look pretty.
    Which pivot are you referring to? The seatstay?

    I can only go by pictures since the T-Moto isn't released yet. Looks like the main BB pivot is roughly the same height on both the T-Moto & RFX. The chainstay pivot on the T-Moto looks to be a bit lower than the RFX but it's hard to really say. The rockers are obviously quite different.
    “Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep moving.”

    ― Albert Einstein

  24. #24
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    WTF, I can't believe nobody has posted a graph or pie chart of pivot locations and pedaling forces, yet!

    Since it's Friday, maybe a few hot babes could be a part of the graphic?
    Whining is not a strategy.

  25. #25
    Neg reppers r my biatches
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    perv!

  26. #26
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    go bake something!!! :-)

  27. #27
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    From a side rough measurement the Turner pivot is 10mm higher than the Ventana. It's not a lot but it matters some. combine that height with the difference in BB height and it feels l bit different at the pedals.

    From reading the Ventana forum few if any complain about it so maybe i'm just nit picking. But when dropping $1800+ bucks it all about the details, and personal preference.
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  28. #28
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    sweating fractions

    "half lucky that the pivot is where it is" edumakaded ges mor lik it

    In response to this friendly elbow I copied from another thread I thought I would share the middle of the night imagineering that went into the main pivot height I ended up with on the 07 RFX. I thought this was all done and ready to ship off to Portland when one night I could not quit thinking about the axle path and chain angle etc etc, so that next day I re-did the geometry and re checked the path and re drew the BB. This required a revision of the freshly created lower yoke as well, but with detail freaks like Krispy looking over my shoulder I wanted the revised classic to give riders the kind of snot dripping YAAHH that Krispy writes about in his review. Was I lucky with the revision or would it have been better left alone I will never know. But for a not exactly light and snappy steep bike it does hook up and haul when the pedals are mashed. I almost forget, the difference in pivot height I was changing was less than an eighth of an inch.

    DT

  29. #29
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    Cool David.
    I was just out trials hopping up onto this parking block over and over again while my son was rippin around on his trike. I used to be way into trials and even had a 20"er for a while. I was doing the classic trials move- hop on the rear wheel up onto something, hit the brake, stall out on the rear wheel, let off the brake and lunge off. On a 160mm bike, depending on the pivot location and progression rate, it can be either do-able or simply not do-able.

    On most full suss bikes it's really hard to do this simple move. On the new RFX i can easily do it with precision again and again. It uses most or all of it's travel when done but it does not slam bottom throwing you off balance or have some drivetrain load that pulls you back down. Not to diss my former bike hookup because they were verry good, but on my Yetis it was impossible. The 575's linkage is falling-to-rising rate, and would be overwhelmed and slam bottom hard and stay there if you lunged onto something. I couldn't kick off and finish the move. The front wheel would drop the second I tried to lunge off. The ASX was far worse being a highish pivot.When I lunged all that would happen would be the rear end pulling to full extension and top out. All the foreward energy was expended in the suspension unloading and i would get 1" off the ground instead of 8-10". The linkage and pivot was good for motoring down the trail fast but failed at advenced tech moves like trialsin through stuff.

    Some may ask why this even matters???

    Well i was riding Moose Hollow, our secret downhill run that is strewn with fallen logs and trees. I come around a corner to enter a steep straighaway and see that the last storm has knocked down 2 small trees.They are 4' apart and suspended thigh height right across the trail. I dismount and get ready to lift my bike over them when V Dub (ex trials stud) rides by be on his new Versis Blitz (sick Turner style bike) and lunges up onto the first log and stalls out. He hoppes onto the second one and stalls out again. He lets his front wheel drop and rolls off the log landing both wheels at the same time and fires off down the trail like nothing happened. I **** my pants. Yeah he's a trials guy but he could never in a thousand years pull that on his lame mid pivot falling rate Joker he had been riding. I realized at that exact second that i was done riding the bike i loved 10 seconds before. We built this trail to encourage ourselves to think outside the box and really be challenged. I needed a new bike.

    When V dub lunged onto that log i was standing right next to him. I saw the suspension unload, spring up, compress just the right amount under brake lockup, and repeat to the next log. I instantly realised that suspension needs to be fully active and rising rate. I've always known this but have liked some semi active type bikes that climb and accelerate faster.(VPP,mid pivot bikes).

    Oh yeah this is the Venty thread! Ok Ventanas probably work well at this type of riding too! Same basic suspension design. However i bet the Turner pivot and smoothly rising linkage rate it would be a little easier.

    Krispy out.
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  30. #30
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    ventana trials move challenge

    alright now, somebody out there w/ a Ventana AND the trials skills has got to get out @ do it! this long w/o a response is like saying it can't be done on a Ventana. that just can't be true! oh yeah, Mr. Krispy, how 's 'bout at least a still shot or two. i don't think anybody would call ya a lier , just that photos would be great.later

  31. #31
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    Blitz II

    Krispy

    How would you compare the Versus Blitz II to the RFX?

  32. #32
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    Blitz vs RFX

    Versus sent us a Blitz frame to demo frame to check out.V dub was intersted in trying it so he slapped his parts on it. He wanted an RFX but after riding the Blitz all summer he ended up buying the Blitz. He uses it for extreme freeride and all around use so he made a good choice.

    The Blitz is a single pivot rocker link bike that uses a 2.25 stroke shock to get 170mm travel. The standouts of this frame are sealed needle bearings at every pivot, amazing machinework, and lots of material everywhere.The frame weighs 10 lbs. Basically it is a RFX on steroids. For most it either is too heavy for trail riding, or not enough travel for DH. however it is nicely nestled between the two for someone like V Dub. Heavily thrashable, and versitile. Oh and it's reasonably priced! (read taiwanese).

    The main pivot is in a fully active position but like i've been saying about the 07 RFX pivot location, the Blitz is also back a bit to make a little sharper wheelpath.

    Fun bike!
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  33. #33
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    Trials vid

    Ok this may look a little silly and i'm sure if a foe from another board sees this they'll have a good time poking fun at how extreme the Turner riders are...

    http://www.go-ride.com/VidClips/P1010091.MOV

    can somebody help me post this up so it plays? thanks in advance!
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