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  1. #1
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    it's time to upgrade the drivetrain - questions

    It's time to finally upgrade the drivetrain. Current setup is Shimano M951 shifters, M950 12-32 cassette (top 3 are Ti), M952 rear derailleur, and M960 (or whatever it was in 2006) front derailleur. My cassette is completely hammered, with the teeth literally getting wider where the chain makes contact due to the peening of the teeth. Despite this, it actually shifts quite well. There is no gear skipping, or hanging up, or any major issues for that matter. This is why it makes it so difficult to justify the upgrade.



    I've been happy with Shimano, but I think I'd like to see what the 1:1 SRAM fuss is all about. I also like the idea of getting rid of the rear derailleur cable loop. I realize the Shimano Shadow rear derailleur would resolve that problem, but I've heard the SRAM is good stuff and I've read about a few issues in my limited reading about the Shadow. I'm also wondering if I should use a SRAM PG-990 cassette, or if I should continue with Shimano and use an XT M770. Which seems to shift better? Which has more cogs on the spider? The 11-32 cassettes are even in spread, but the XT 11-34 spread is more even than the 990 11-34 spread.
    XT 11-32: 11-12-14-16-18-21-24-28-32
    PG-990 11-32: 11-12-14-16-18-21-24-28-32
    XT 11-34: 11-13-15-17-20-23-26-30-34
    PG-990 11-34: 11-13-15-17-21-23-26-30-34
    I'll just stick with my RaceFace 94/58 5-arm Turbine LP cranks, and I'll just pick up some new RF 22-32-44 9sp chainrings. Regarding chains. PC-991, PC-991 Hollow Pin, or PC-991 Cross Step? As a reference, I've been plenty happy with the PC-68. I'll also keep my current front derailleur.



    Anyway, thanks for the advice.

  2. #2
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    You will be happy with the SRAM shifters and derailleur combo. I switched a few years back and have nothing but great luck. The new Shimano stuff is sweet as well, can't lose either way. Just a note, I bought XO shifters and run an X9 and an X7 rear derailleur. They shift the exact same. I think the shifters have more to do with it than the derailleur. I run an X7 on my RFX becasue it seems like I rip a few off every year, and at $45 to replace, I feel better about it. I did have an XO on it originally, I cant say it is any better. I did originally run X9 shifters on my Sultan, and XOs are far superior. Great deals on Ebay.

    As for the cassette, I have never liked SRAM. I recently bought a 990 and took it back immediately. I run Shimano XTR chains and it shifted like crap. I could get it shift really well in 1-6, but 7,8,and 9 would skip like crazy under load. And yes, I did a complete rebuild, new rings, cassette, and chain. So I went back to a XT cassette and all was well. It seems as though the SRAM cassettes are softer as well. Anyone who has run them in our group either bends the cogs, or breaks them right off.
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  3. #3
    It's carbon dontcha know.
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  4. #4
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    The standard set up on the last few bikes I've built has been XT or XTR cassette 11-34, X9 shifters and rear derailleur (Pricepoint deal), XTR chain, , X9 or XTR front derailleur, XT cranks - completely bomb proof IMO. I like the SRAM shiters and deraiileurs but prefer the Shimano drive train stuff.
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  5. #5
    Baked Alaskan
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    I think everyone is going to have different experiences here so I'll throw in my .02...

    Started with XT front and XTR rear der's mated to sram attack (I'm a twisty guy, have to be able to trim the front der.) and an XT cassette in the rear - ran them for 3 years and they were ok, but I could never get shifting perfect, or shifting would be great but I'd get ghost shifting in some gears over certain kinds of bumps. So I just figured it was something I'd live with and everything was tolerable.

    Then a couple seasons ago I got a mad case of UGI and switched to all Sram, Xgen up front, X-9 out back, 990 cassette and X-9 twisties and its been nothing but love - easy to setup, precise shifting and no ghost shifting. I'm now a Sram convert and will not go back to the Big S for shifter stuff. That being said I run LX HTII cranks - absolutely the best crank bang for the buck IMHO - and its been flawless.

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    When I get my hands on a Sultan frame I'm going to run the same setup and I may try to scrape up some deals for the GF's bike to get hers close to mine. I think my shift quality would be the same if I had an XT cassette too, just got a better deal on the 990 so that's why I switched. But I'm X-9 all the way from now on.
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  6. #6
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    Yeah, I already have the PricePoint X9 combo in my shoping cart. I just needed to figure out whether to go with SRAM or Shimano on the cassette. It sounds like I'll go Shimano.

    Hmm, now to decide on 11-32 or 11-34. When I first started riding after the snow melted and the trails dried out, I really wished I had the 34 cog, but now that I'm in better shape, I find myself several cogs down from the 32 I currently have.

    There were some Southern California trails that I wish I would have had the 34, even when I was in riding shape, but where I ride in Utah, I'm thinking I can get away with the 32.

  7. #7
    trail fairy
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    What AK said, Ive also been a long time Sram covert and more than likely won't change back on my bikes! unles Sram do something wierd or stupid, like the bi S did a few years ago!

    AK touches on a point Ive tried to push for as long, keep al your Sram Sram do not mix n match Shimano!, Ive had none of theissues people describe with shifting or with wear, on either my 990s/ 991 chains Ive only ever broken one Sram chain and that was a 950, because there were no 991s available at the time!

    I'm sure lots of other issues come into play, like cranks, alignment, mainentance! But I ride or used to allot in mud and nothing has ever worked so well for me, my DTs run as sweet in mud as they do in the dry, Ive done many events where I see gearing lets many people down, Ive never had that issue, no matter the conditions!

    Others will disagree, but if you wear your components in evenly there will be no issues, I run
    X9 RD/Xgen FD with dual ring on the RFX XO shifters impulse!
    XO/XO/X9FD on the Spot!

    There's some god stuff coming out of Shimano for sure, like there new XT cranks, new Saint, I want to have a closer look at the splines etc at some stage, but gearing Sram takes it for me, its like campy in road the more you ride it the better it gets, shimano for me has always been the opposite works well new when adj correctly, but the more ride time or adverse the more worse it becomes and also requires more consistent adjustments to keep running well, well thats my experience for pre 08 stuff with Sram barely ever need adjustment, its a riders groupset!

    It may take you some time to adjust to the fast precise shifts, and if using impulse or thumb triggers, but its very intuative in about and half hour!

    X9 for value front to back the shifters have the same clamping and adjustment as the fancier X0 and no disrespect to X7 or less but there bar clamp is weak its ok if ya don't overtighten it or crash too hard, so even if ya get X9 shifters and X7 rear etc you'll be all good, course you may want twist!

    Go for it
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  8. #8
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    tiSS'er & cuthroat - XTR chains over SRAM? Really? I switched from Shimano to Sachs back in the 90's and never looked back. Let me know why you're Shimano chain fans.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by royta
    Yeah, I already have the PricePoint X9 combo in my shoping cart. I just needed to figure out whether to go with SRAM or Shimano on the cassette. It sounds like I'll go Shimano.
    Before you press the buy button, call Larry. I was going to buy the same combo from PP, but ended up going with Larry because his price was pretty close.

    The X9 shifter/der combo is the shizzle--I cannot believe how crisply it shifts. In fact, I am beginning to prefer the X.9 triggers over my X.o gripshifters.

    And while I run SRAM 991 chains, I have also been fairly happy with the Dura Ace chains. Really, I think they are interchangeable, as are XT/990 cassettes.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by royta
    tiSS'er & cuthroat - XTR chains over SRAM? Really? I switched from Shimano to Sachs back in the 90's and never looked back. Let me know why you're Shimano chain fans.

    Yeah, really. I much prefer the XTR chains. When paired with an XT cassette, seems like the shifting is much more crisp, smooth and faster. I have never had a Shimano chain fail on me. I do use the SRAM quick link as well. Also, the Shimano chain seems quieter.
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  11. #11
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    One other thing I forgot to add is I run a medium cage rear deraileur. Since I don't have a big ring there's no need for a long cage and it doesn't seem to flop around as much as the long cage does. That might be helping my overall success - though my previous setup with the XT was a short cage so maybe not. I run a Sram chain too.
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  12. #12
    trail fairy
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    Dam AK is gonna think I'm stalking him,

    again what he said!

    What bike are we talking about here anyways!

    If Spot above I'd definitley go Dual Ring! Tscheesy covered this off a few years ago with a very good thread, at the time I wasn't doing this on the spot, RFX above it made total sens, but I converted anyways and its definitley the way to go,27psds is way overkill unless ya seriously racing then I'd still check your gearing!

    Go for something like 36/22 or 24 gr up front put a bash on where the 44t ring was, Heim or Blackspire or DRS chain guide and medium cage!

    I'd be weary running short cage derailuers with a dual ring setup you may struggle with jockey wheel clearance on ya biggest rear cog on yer cluster even with clearance it will be tight a small bit of crap and it will be oh crap esspecialy if ya have a sweet XO on there! Unless ya running anything less than 32t rear in the biggest then ya gearing is gona be pretty tough, people forget DHers doing thins run max usually 27t usually a 11/23t just some added thoughts! It can be done, just don't see the point myself.

    I run med on all my bikes with backsire chain guides and raceface cranks, and as A said all Sram transmissions no mixing, Sram and RF rings work very well together, Sram chains and Shimano tolerances are not exactly the same so this maybe why I have different experiences to most peoples mixed combos as they more than likely run XT cranks, hence why they like XT/XTR clusters and chains, Shimano do this for that reason!, Srams 1:1 is very tolerant of anything
    Last edited by trailadvent; 06-20-2008 at 03:59 PM.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by royta
    tiSS'er & cuthroat - XTR chains over SRAM? Really? I switched from Shimano to Sachs back in the 90's and never looked back. Let me know why you're Shimano chain fans.
    Probably more habit than anything - I have them lying around because I run Dura Ace 9 speed on the road bike. But it's more than that too - I have nothing against SRAM chains per se; however I think it's important from a theological perspective not to mix and match drive train components. Cogs, chain and cranks should come from the maker - shifters are agnostic and don't fall into the "drivetrain" dogma for me. I read a pretty comprehensive article awhile back that went into detail on how Shimano designs the ramps and pins on their cogs and chainrings - there are pretty sophisticated engineering principles that go into making the shifts as smooth as possible and the design changes are extrememly subtle. The designs get patented as soon as they come out. I like Shimano's cranks, so that leads me to their cassettes which in turn leads me to their chains - I figure if the stuff is engineered that precisely, I should be running all the same parts that come from the same design team. It's called "marketing" I'm sure I wouid have little trouble with a SRAM 991 chain, but I'm in the good graces of the church of the bicycle and I intend to stay there. I last broke a chain in 2001. Now on my SS I run the KMC Z610 HX chain - that is one component that I will never betray - it's absolutely the bestest 3/32" SS chain in the world bar none, no exceptions.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by trailadvent
    If Spot above I'd definitley go Dual Ring! Tscheesy covered this off a few years ago with a very good thread, at the time I wasn't doing this on the spot, RFX above it made total sens, but I converted anyways and its definitley the way to go,27psds is way overkill unless ya seriously racing then I'd still check your gearing!
    Hmmmm, been there done that. For predominantly gravity based tech riding I would agree; however, there were too many times after I went to a dual ring set up that I couldn't keep up the pace on longer rides. When I did the Monarch Crest Trail last fall, I was probably in the big ring, 3 smallest cogs for 15 out of the 30 miles we rode that day - just hauling a$s, same on most of my other rides. I just love the high speed big ring grinding and swooping too much to lose those top 3 or 4 gear ratios at the high end - not that there's a right or wrong, because so much of it is driven by what and how you ride. Those top end gears on the Sultan are just like smoking opium now!
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  15. #15
    Baked Alaskan
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    Quote Originally Posted by trailadvent
    Dam AK is gonna think I'm stalking him,

    again what he said!
    Great minds think alike???

    If I see you on the trail I'm gonna start to get a little spooked...
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  16. #16
    trail fairy
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    Quote Originally Posted by cutthroat
    Hmmmm, been there done that. For predominantly gravity based tech riding I would agree; however, there were too many times after I went to a dual ring set up that I couldn't keep up the pace on longer rides. When I did the Monarch Crest Trail last fall, I was probably in the big ring, 3 smallest cogs for 15 out of the 30 miles we rode that day - just hauling a$s, same on most of my other rides. I just love the high speed big ring grinding and swooping too much to lose those top 3 or 4 gear ratios at the high end - not that there's a right or wrong, because so much of it is driven by what and how you ride. Those top end gears on the Sultan are just like smoking opium now!
    True greatly depends where ya riding and who with, to be fair, I don't do allot of that type of riding anmore and if Ido I switch back to the 44 and remove the CG 5min job,, so fair call, I agree totally with ya Shimano assement and find exactly the same in reverse with Sram, I been trying to say it for years mostly to save people pain, I mean it dosen't bother me if people realy want to mix, but I know it causes issues, becuase Ive solved mine and others doing this, but everyone to there own
    Last edited by trailadvent; 06-20-2008 at 05:08 PM.
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  17. #17
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    AKChris, what kind of bash ring is that?

  18. #18
    trail fairy
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    Quote Originally Posted by AK Chris
    Great minds think alike???

    If I see you on the trail I'm gonna start to get a little spooked...


    Atleast we don't ride matching bikes
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  19. #19
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    Lone voice in the woods here, apparently, but i got a new race bike this year with X0 stuff and after 5 months had still never felt the love. Switched to XT. Much happier.

    I absolutely HATED the push/push XO shifters. The push/push was not intuitive, but I could live with that. What I couldn't live with was the frequent double shifting when going for one more gear while pedalling down a rough trail.

    Cable changes on the XO stuff are much more annoying than XT, also, and front derailer performance isn't even on the same planet.
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  20. #20
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    Kosmo - did you go 08 XT? If so - that shifter (770 I believe) can be used push/push or pull/push out of the box. Coming from SRAM, I use it push/push exclusively.
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  21. #21
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    08 XT, and I'm set up push/pull, and love it. I really, really wanted to love the SRAM. If things are equal -- or close -- I will always choose a US company. But I never felt the love. But nobody should key off my opinion on shifters. I may be the only guy on the Turner forum that strongly prefers "wobble shifters" over any others. Sadly, the Avid Ultimate brakes (and cost) precluded making that switch, so XT triggers for me.
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by trailadvent

    It may take you some time to adjust to the fast precise shifts, and if using impulse or thumb triggers, but its very intuative in about and half hour!
    I would give you that SRAM shifts are usually precise, as they clunk into position, but fast? No way, my XT stuff shifts way faster with less lever throw and much more smoothly. 1:1.2 that sram uses is a good idea, but it also goes back to the precision of the parts, and if that is improved, it's not a huge deal anymore. In any case it is more tolerant, but I would hesitate from saying that it's "fast and precise".
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by royta
    tiSS'er & cuthroat - XTR chains over SRAM? Really? I switched from Shimano to Sachs back in the 90's and never looked back. Let me know why you're Shimano chain fans.
    Well, what shimano did was they came out with an entire new line of chains not to long ago. SRAM rebadged SACHS chains for the longest time, and then finally came out with their own design, the 990 and so on. I used to break the old shimano chains easy, so I switched to sachs/sram, and they were better. They don't hold a candle though against the latest generation of shimano chains IMO. These new chains have mushroom-shaped pins that keep the links from sliding off under extreme pressure, and with all the riding I do in the middle gear (pretty much all of it up super steep climbs) I've yet to break one, and again I've broken my share of chains. The other good thing about them is that they are not too expensive, XTR/dura-ace is around 30 dollars in most places, far cheaper than the top end sram stuff, not to mention that sram has finally come out with a competative chain (but just one whereas the entire shimano line now has these features) called the "cross-step", but it's a crapload of money.

    On the other hand, I could be demonstrating the exact same idea that other people seem to, just in reverse. I got way turned off from SRAM stuff due to the derailer breakages I had, and it seems that I still see a good number of these even today (sram uses the same basic mechanical design as the last generation of sachs stuff). I also don't think their cassettes are very durable (wear too fast). I tend to settle on stuff that works and SRAM definitely didn't have their game up when I was experimenting with drivetrains and components back in the day. I'm past the experimentation stage and now I go with what lasts me a long time and stands up to abuse. I know that they've come out with better stuff compared to long ago, but people seem to jump on this when it happens and then proclaim that it's the best ever. Hell, the same thing happened with the newest shimano components, as there were a lot of SRAM-people saying that they thought the new XT may be "better". I don't think these products really are "better" than the others, just a lot better than before sometimes, and they would simply have to be radically "better" to warrent any interest from my hand-picked ultra-reliable component mix. Kind of like how formula comes out with a new brake every month and everyone goes absolutely ape-sh*t for it, but other manufacturers have been making mono-block calipers for a while, and so on. Are these things really better? I'm not anti-technology or anti-progress, I'm anti-upgrading for the sake of upgrading without any real improvement in performance. I did make that mistake recently with the marzocchi all-mountain one, but I try to keep it to a minimum.
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    I would give you that SRAM shifts are usually precise, as they clunk into position, but fast? No way, my XT stuff shifts way faster with less lever throw and much more smoothly. 1:1.2 that sram uses is a good idea, but it also goes back to the precision of the parts, and if that is improved, it's not a huge deal anymore. In any case it is more tolerant, but I would hesitate from saying that it's "fast and precise".
    Well I have no idea who tunes up your cables or what outers youre running, but I ran XTR for years and there no comparison, my shifts are fast precise and not clunky!

    Don't even go there, Ive had zero issues for over four years eveytime I ride a shimano bike I can't wait to give it back, I ran Dura Ace on my road bikes and feel the same way, I'll not swap my X0 or X9 for Shitmano until proven otherwise, my rides have never suffered since and I'm not talking car park rides, I tune and setup all my own gearing I know Im getting it right, LBS on Shimano 9 times outta ten a waste of money, Ive saved heaps on chains clusters since on Sram!

    Even DH I'll be running Sram, My Saint was s h i t and let me down evey race, I don't know about you Jayem but I thrash my gearing and it gets a hard life, Ive ridden lots of it, I'm lost at where you guys are coming from!

    But if you want to run Shimano go for it, I know I'l not suffer or waste my time with it.

    If it fast for you good luck to ya but I wil disagree till the cows come home on this one!

    One I always state what gear I'm running and comparing I never do blanket statements on components! what are you comparing XT too, Ive ridden the best and thrashed it had so called experts tune it, and I still stand by my X9 or X0 any day..

    I haven't had the chance to ride 08 Shimno stuff and Saint looks good on paper and maybe I'd consider it but only after someones prepared to pay me for it or give it to me, no way will I pay for it unless proven first, I feel that strongly about it because Ive had many a good ride/race ruined by that crap!

    I also don't sell either and have no interest in who has market share or whatever I just like components that work and last I couldn't care less about how good they look, if they do then added bonus, but trust me if it dosen't work for me it goes imeadiatley!

    The new Shimano group maybe a improvement, but the only thing that really makes me interested is some of the Saint group and maybe XT cranks, but I have no reason to replace any of my existing stuff, it all performs and has flawlessly! So unlikley I'll be running any of it in the future, and when I build another bike I will probably keep it uniform, I hated going back to shimano triggers switching from my DH bike to my Am bikes, the difference was imeadiate! No comparison!

    As I have said everyone to there own, I only pass on my experiences!
    People can take it what ever way they want, I don't force people to drink!

    Just don't expect me to pull out a wrench when ya Shimano s h i t s itself cause Im over those days!

    I'll throw anyone a tube though
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by trailadvent
    Don't even go there, Ive had zero issues for over four years
    I'm curious, given that information, what parts do you still have from 4 years ago? Cranks 3 years and shifters are 5yrs old, hub 4yrs old, but has had 3 freehubs.
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  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    I'm curious, given that information, what parts do you still have from 4 years ago? Cranks 3 years and shifters are 5yrs old, hub 4yrs old, but has had 3 freehubs.
    My RF Atlas cranks, I still have a long cage X0 rear derailuer, I x XO med cage carbon rd from late 05, XO shifters from late 05, X9 from 06, XGen [04] from when it first came out, probably had one of the first here, I ditched the 03 X9 shifters as the clamps on those were weak hence why I always suggest people spend the extra and get the 07 onwards X9 shifters similar bar clamp system to XO , rest obviously replaced through wear.
    The later model X9 rear Ds have as good spring tension as XO and no lateral play in the Jcage like the earlier models!

    I also prefered the Sachs mechs to Shimano in there day might suggest something!

    Earlier Sram X9 pre 07 had jockey cage issues, Ive never had that model and have never wrecked a sram rear D then Ive not had less than X9 07 and usually run X0, since first gen XO.

    I only run med cage's now on my Am bikes, SC on the DH in futrue if I can, my first gen carbon is still going strong, and one of my fav ride spots is full of rocks roots sticks branches and mud lots of it no issues, to be fair Ive never broken a Shimano rear mech either, just never had much success since they left 8spd behind, back then the XT XTR was great fo its day, like there hubs I had a set of XT hubs which I sold on 7years later still ran like new, the rims braking surface was buggered but thats another story

    I ran all XTR 03 HT2 and worst groupo Ive ever owned, I changed shifters, clusters, cables all sorts in the end I swtiched to Sram XO begining 04 and never looked back, once XO shifters were available I ditched earlier X9 shifting for XO and nothing replaces those babies, I can't stand the thumb fore finger shifting of shimano now it feels totally weird to me, and could never get my saint shifter comfortable on the bar for DH Sram no prob, I do like the pro mod to the big thumb shifter on the sram though, so I'm gona file one down and give it a try, for next season!

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  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by kosmo
    08 XT, and I'm set up push/pull, and love it. I really, really wanted to love the SRAM. If things are equal -- or close -- I will always choose a US company. But I never felt the love. But nobody should key off my opinion on shifters. I may be the only guy on the Turner forum that strongly prefers "wobble shifters" over any others. Sadly, the Avid Ultimate brakes (and cost) precluded making that switch, so XT triggers for me.
    fair enough - for me, the ability to push/push with the XT has been great, I can leave my index finger on the brake, it's taken some mental training but I can actually shift and brake at the same time now, combine that with pedalling and generally staying upright at the given moment, I'm maxing the cerebral cortex with tasks
    Happiness depends more on the inward disposition of mind than on outward circumstances. Benjamin Franklin

  28. #28
    Bodhisattva
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    Quote Originally Posted by kosmo
    Cable changes on the XO stuff are much more annoying than XT, also, and front derailer performance isn't even on the same planet.
    I agree with you on this last point. XTR FD is far & away the best FD out there. And cable changes on X.0 can be a PITA - it's hit or miss.

    My drivetrain is a mutt of parts.

    X.0 triggers front & rear
    X.0 RD
    XTR FD
    XTR cassette
    Crank/Rings: One bike has XT, the other Truvativ. I sense no difference
    Chain: SRAM whatever. I haven't broken a chain by either brand in years and consider these equally interchangeable

    My favorite setup of all time was the circa 2002 XTR triggers with rapid rise RD, although the pods developed slop over time.
    “Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep moving.”

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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel
    My favorite setup of all time was the circa 2002 XTR triggers with rapid rise RD, although the pods developed slop over time.
    I believe my XTR M953 is circa 2002. Still fully functional - all I've had to replace are the worn out jockey wheels. Replaced the shifters though - way too sloppy after a few years - the 08 XT is mo-better.

    Happiness depends more on the inward disposition of mind than on outward circumstances. Benjamin Franklin

  30. #30
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    Ah crap. Now I'm wondering if I should just go with '08 XT shifters and try out a XT Shadow rear derailleur. Honestly, I've been a RapidFire Plus fan since my first MTB purchase in 1993. As many of you recall, original RapidFire was the push-push, like what SRAM uses today. I'm wondering how the change from RapidFire Plus to SRAM would treat me.

  31. #31
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    XTR

    Is this the XC weight weanie forum

    I'll keep my XGen and X9 thanks, more FS freindly, X9 is very stiff, I prefer the understated looks, I get no chain rub or slap on the lFD ower cage bridge in the granny, easy peasy to setup and the multi tool can reach the set screws, I think Shimano addressed that for 08, good to see Sram is helping them with there RnD

    Granted cable changes are more difficultfor Xo X9 but not that hard!

    In saying that my cables life has extended light years, I rarely ever havehad to change a cable, usually to date its only been because I put new outers on so thought I'd run a new inner as well, threw the oldie in the camel back for some other poor soul on the trail as usually there penty out there that take sweet all but a water bottle
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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by trailadvent
    My RF Atlas cranks, I still have a long cage X0 rear derailuer, I x XO med cage carbon rd from late 05, XO shifters from late 05, X9 from 06, XGen [04] from when it first came out, probably had one of the first here, I ditched the 03 X9 shifters as the clamps on those were weak hence why I always suggest people spend the extra and get the 07 onwards X9 shifters similar bar clamp system to XO , rest obviously replaced through wear.
    The later model X9 rear Ds have as good spring tension as XO and no lateral play in the Jcage like the earlier models!

    I also prefered the Sachs mechs to Shimano in there day might suggest something!

    Earlier Sram X9 pre 07 had jockey cage issues, Ive never had that model and have never wrecked a sram rear D then Ive not had less than X9 07 and usually run X0, since first gen XO.

    I only run med cage's now on my Am bikes, SC on the DH in futrue if I can, my first gen carbon is still going strong, and one of my fav ride spots is full of rocks roots sticks branches and mud lots of it no issues, to be fair Ive never broken a Shimano rear mech either, just never had much success since they left 8spd behind, back then the XT XTR was great fo its day, like there hubs I had a set of XT hubs which I sold on 7years later still ran like new, the rims braking surface was buggered but thats another story

    I ran all XTR 03 HT2 and worst groupo Ive ever owned, I changed shifters, clusters, cables all sorts in the end I swtiched to Sram XO begining 04 and never looked back, once XO shifters were available I ditched earlier X9 shifting for XO and nothing replaces those babies, I can't stand the thumb fore finger shifting of shimano now it feels totally weird to me, and could never get my saint shifter comfortable on the bar for DH Sram no prob, I do like the pro mod to the big thumb shifter on the sram though, so I'm gona file one down and give it a try, for next season!

    Saw another sram derailer bust today, on a hardtail no less. In any case, I find the shimano stuff to hold up a lot longer, longer than most of those components you listed above. Maybe sram has finally "got it right" with all those pulley and pivot issues you are speaking of, but those have never been a problem for any big S derailer I've used.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  33. #33
    trail fairy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    Saw another sram derailer bust today, on a hardtail no less. In any case, I find the shimano stuff to hold up a lot longer, longer than most of those components you listed above. Maybe sram has finally "got it right" with all those pulley and pivot issues you are speaking of, but those have never been a problem for any big S derailer I've used.
    No disrespct J but Sram is very general! Hardtail what XC, DJ, means nothing how was it broken! JRA..

    X0?
    X9?
    X7
    Rocket

    I see this all the time, similar with brake comparisons, people don't compare years, models rotors nothing its all very opinonised! If iI knew Shimano really did work better for "ME" I'd use it, real world for me it dosen't!

    But if you see it let us know, I mean a good mechcanic should be able to know his customer, is it a long cage issue, type, model, maybe a cheap ass model is not going to work for some, some just hoom up in anything, no good comparing bearings JWs of X7 to XT or XTR, same with X0 to LX or XT etc, they are not fair comparsions!

    I'll say it now you'll never see me with XTR ever again! One for me its an XC groupo and I won't run anything that light or expensive again!

    Even in Sram now I'd question the need for an X0 RD as there 07 onwards X9 is so good, I still run Xo shifters cause I like the stiffer thumb shifter, its alloy vs die cast metal of the X9 which is fine, its held up fine on other bikes I no others have em running on!

    Its only for bling, and I'm happy of that if the perfromance and reliabilty does not suffer, which it does not! I still run 990/991 non hp chains though as I have not had the wear issues others seem to suffer, and been mt best combos I'd question lack of maintence chain tenison setup etc and how ya ride etc, I rode in the worst of conditons last year on my RFX and all the running gear is still sweet, I did one set of RF ex bearings , Ive still got a set on my Spot thats got over 2000km on it, I'ver never changed my jockey wheels on any of my RDs though they are in need, Ive checked while I could still get some more out of em, I'm not that tight

    Facts please!

    There is a distinct difference in riders ands styles backgrounds here! and ya can see in builds how that is reflected, speaks for itself really!
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  34. #34
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    Cool, I can't really fault any of that. Being a mechanic for a shop myself, my opinion is probably jaded somewhat, not only by the failures or stuff that I had to work on, but also due to my mechanical applitude, so the more "idiot-proof" products out there may not impact me much, but idiot-proof is great for most everyone. If something doesn't work I can probably diagnose it better than the common person, and I may not count all the little "tweaks" that I do that makes something function correctly, and of course when I do make it work right it doesn't give me any problems, but there are some huge variables in setup and how everything meshes together. Adjustments, tension, frame designs, etc.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    Cool, I can't really fault any of that. Being a mechanic for a shop myself, my opinion is probably jaded somewhat, not only by the failures or stuff that I had to work on, but also due to my mechanical applitude, so the more "idiot-proof" products out there may not impact me much, but idiot-proof is great for most everyone. If something doesn't work I can probably diagnose it better than the common person, and I may not count all the little "tweaks" that I do that makes something function correctly, and of course when I do make it work right it doesn't give me any problems, but there are some huge variables in setup and how everything meshes together. Adjustments, tension, frame designs, etc.
    Dam mem is really playing up on me I thought you were a pilot

    I here ya though most joe blog punters are munters and probably ride into all sorts of crap, X0,X9 proably to good for them and maybe lower end Shimanos more durable I don't know, Ive not ridden anything less than X9 in Sram and haven't touch an LX mech in over 10years! back then it was pretty average an XT deore was the go, I did munt a XT mech though which is why I went to Sachs, plus I was a grip shifter then and Sachs was the gripshifter of its day until Sram bought them out!

    Agree there are many varibles maybe for us maybe its a personal preference and style of riding, Ive just found what works for me no matter the conditions and thats all I can ask for, plus I like to wrench all my own stuff for me Sram is easy for me, I find Shimano has too many adjustments and is too sensitive!
    Some prefer Shimano FD derailuers Im probably one of the few that prefer Sram again not product biased although thats why I went there to begin with its just worked for me, and never let me down, rare on FS! I couldn't stand my XT mech the top and bottom pull model..

    I do like some Shimano stuff though, I enjoy my saint brakes simple reliable and feel great, not on par as my Lousies but still a nice brake,and better for DJ and DH bash and crash, I like Saint cranks, and will watch Saint 09 with interest, and maybe XT cranks once Ive checked out the spline interfaces, though RF have stepped up there Deus/Atlas/Diablous for 09 and I like FSA's stuff, so hard so much good stuff now

    Chur..
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  36. #36
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    I'll tell you one thing. When you jump off a Shadow-equipped bike onto a SRAM bike and look down at the rear derailleur, it looks like it sticks out so far that you wonder how you could even finish one ride without it being torn off.

    Of course, that's nonsense, but when you first glance down, it's shocking how far a regular derailleur hangs out in the breeze!
    Whining is not a strategy.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by kosmo
    I'll tell you one thing. When you jump off a Shadow-equipped bike onto a SRAM bike and look down at the rear derailleur, it looks like it sticks out so far that you wonder how you could even finish one ride without it being torn off.

    Of course, that's nonsense, but when you first glance down, it's shocking how far a regular derailleur hangs out in the breeze!
    Um never been able to do a comparison on a Turner frame, I think the Turner frame and rear d hanger is very tidy for the rear mec though Im looking at mine now as my bike is in the bedroom lol, looks pretty sweet the ole X9
    Try that with each D in the middle of the rear cluster then in the big cog of the rear cluster, be interesting!

    I like the derailuer I think it adds to the mystery and skills to ride a bike watch any noob for the first few months they never get the whole shifting thing, smoothness anticipating the trail gears to be in, timing using the right gear usually they push too harder gear, don't understand cadence, it all makes and adds to the challenge, I love tech etc to expand the sport but also like the skills required, sorry I digress, having a moment of nos
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  38. #38
    over researcher
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6thElement

    I ordered everything from Larry this morning. I won't advertise Larry's prices on here, but let's put it this way...at PricePoint, price isn't the point. Why waste your time with anybody but Larry?

    RF Team Rings 5-arm 94/58 22-32-44
    '08 XT 11-34 cassette
    '08 X9 trigger shifters
    '08 X9 rear derailleur
    XTR chain
    4-pk SRAM Gold Power Link
    Avid Speed Dial 7 levers
    Yeti Hardcore Grips
    XTR replacement brake cables
    Avid BB7 brake pads
    other misc. goodies



    On a different note. Who knows anything about single speed? I want to build up my old '96 Mongoose IBOC Pro-SX frame into a single speed. I plan on using a Blackspire Mono Veloce 34T 110mm front ring (using my old RF Turbine LP 110/74 cranks), a Kick Ass Cog and Fibonacci Spacer Kit (using my old White Industries Ti Cassette wheelset), a SRAM 8sp chain, and a chain tensioner mounted at the derailleur hanger. I want a good chain tensioner that pushes the chain up, but I don't want to spend an arm and a leg. Do I want a tensioner with a spring or one that holds tight? Any suggestions on tensioners?

  39. #39
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    Oh man...I'm anxious. It appears the package will arrive tomorrow.

  40. #40
    TLL
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel
    I agree with you on this last point. XTR FD is far & away the best FD out there. And cable changes on X.0 can be a PITA - it's hit or miss.
    Word. There is not a better FD out there, though I think the bottom/down swings (like the 971) actually shift a bit better than the top swings.

    My Sultan had an X9 FD, Hated it. The thing never shifted right. I have been on XTR FDs ever since.

    But when I built the RFX I tossed on an X9 that I had picked up for $20. You know what, it shifts perfectly. go figure.

    Quote Originally Posted by royta
    I ordered everything from Larry this morning. I won't advertise Larry's prices on here, but let's put it this way...at PricePoint, price isn't the point. Why waste your time with anybody but Larry?

    RF Team Rings 5-arm 94/58 22-32-44
    '08 XT 11-34 cassette
    '08 X9 trigger shifters
    '08 X9 rear derailleur
    XTR chain
    4-pk SRAM Gold Power Link
    Avid Speed Dial 7 levers
    Yeti Hardcore Grips
    XTR replacement brake cables
    Avid BB7 brake pads
    other misc. goodies
    Looks like a nice collection of parts, Have fun!

  41. #41
    trail fairy
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    Quote Originally Posted by TLL
    Word. There is not a better FD out there, X9

    My Sultan had an X9 FD, Hated it. The thing never shifted right. I have been on XTR FDs ever since.


    But when I built the RFX I tossed on an X9 that I had picked up for $20. You know what, it shifts perfectly. go figure.



    Looks like a nice collection of parts, Have fun!
    Ya both needed time out

    like any good relaltionship sometimes
    Roy, glad yer package is !! ahh arriving
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