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  1. #1
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    It's blue, has 5" of travel and 29" wheels...

    So call me a traitor, the Sultan is not going anywhere, but it will share ride time with the Lenz. I was very curious about the short chainstays, slack HT angle, and additional rear travel. Craigslist is a great thing(despite the decidedly ghey color) . This is intended for more technical terrain than the Sultan typically sees - can you say Moore Fun? Unfortunately, the snow in the background has to be dealt with first. Fruita and GJ are still covered in slop. Once the weather dries things out we'll see about a comparison between the Behemoth and the Sultan. Winter sucks for riding, but time with shop projects compensates a bit.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails It's blue, has 5" of travel and 29" wheels...-lenz-1.jpg  

    It's blue, has 5" of travel and 29" wheels...-lenz-2.jpeg  

    When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. ~H.G. Wells

  2. #2
    tg
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    I don't know you anymore.

    You are a bike whore and a sleezy one at that.

  3. #3
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    I think it looks cool, but all the lenz haters at Fo's blag [which is everybody?] are gonna rip you.
    phuck them, that bike looks like fun.
    ****

  4. #4
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    New bikes are cool and all, but I personally dont see the point of owning one 29er, nevermind two.

    Enjoy!

    Buzz

  5. #5
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    Now why you want to be poking that stick into this nest?

    I think you could do a Pro Review right now.
    Quote Originally Posted by buddhak
    And I thought I had a bike obsession. You are at once tragic and awesome.

  6. #6
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    Yes, I'm a dirty ****, no doubt about it. I finally got the herd thinned to one Mt. Bike, one road bike and a beater - now I'm back up to 5.
    Buzz - 29" is not for everyone or every kind of terrain, but it has totally upped my riding game. This bike feels VERY much like the RFX felt - more upright, compact and nimble, although I've only ridden it twice on packed snowmobile trails just to fine tune the shifting, etc.
    Most of the bits and pieces were already on hand, so the up front investment was pretty low. I used to think Lenzs looked like crap, but its growing on me, and the swoopy frame looks better in real life. Pray for hot weather please.
    When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. ~H.G. Wells

  7. #7
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    I didnt really mean it to come across as derogatory, just more of an observation. Its the riding that counts in the end...

    Cheers

    Buzz

  8. #8
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    lay 'em down and smackem yakem
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz
    I didnt really mean it to come across as derogatory,
    Wasn't taken that way - the big wheels get a lot of fanatics (kind of like Turner cult members ), but there are places and riders where the 26" format really works better. I still regret having sold the RFX, so this bike is a sort of compensation.
    When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. ~H.G. Wells

  10. #10
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    What size is that?, the smaller sized Lenz are nice looking bikes but man the larger sizes look retarded, IMO.

    Shorter stays?, meh, slacker HA? YES! I looked at the #'s on their site, the shorter TT and CS's might make it more nimble but I like the fit and the stable descending of the V1 and wouldn't want to give that up.

    Rene- I agree, the Fo blog haters need to get a life

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by rroeder
    What size is that?, the smaller sized Lenz are nice looking bikes but man the larger sizes look retarded, IMO.

    Shorter stays?, meh, slacker HA? YES! I looked at the #'s on their site, the shorter TT and CS's might make it more nimble but I like the fit and the stable descending of the V1 and wouldn't want to give that up.

    Rene- I agree, the Fo blog haters need to get a life
    It's a medium - I agree anything more than a large just looks retarded. Mike C. lobbied hard for me to get a medium so I took a chance. So far it fits like the RFX did. The V1 Sultan is not going anywhere - that bike is just too good to give up, but there were times when I felt it was a little to XC oriented even with the 120mm fork. Maybe the Lenz will fit the aggressive trail niche better. Hard to argue with the added rear travel and 69.5 HT angle. Frame and King headset were $800 shipped.
    When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. ~H.G. Wells

  12. #12
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    No matter what anyone says getting 'new' bikes is always a blast even if you end up moving on. Here's hoping you enjoy it Cutty.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by cutthroat
    Frame and King headset were $800 shipped.
    Wow. Hard to pass up at that price.... even if you end up not liking it.

    Is the Manitou fork 120mm? Why no Marz 44 or WB150?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by KRob
    Wow. Hard to pass up at that price.... even if you end up not liking it.

    Is the Manitou fork 120mm? Why no Marz 44 or WB150?
    It's a 120mm. I used it mainly because I had it lying around and I have tons of spare parts for the Manitous, including upgraded Absolute dampers. I know how to work on them and I like the forks. I thought about the WB 135, but reviews are really mixed on those as well as the Marz 44, and I don't have a 15mm axle wheel. The Manitous are 4lbs, supple, stiff, reliable and take a standard 20mm TA.
    When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. ~H.G. Wells

  15. #15
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    big weight difference between the v1 sultan and the moth or about the same? thanx!

  16. #16
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    I laugh at how people are so invested in what other people ride...."A 29er? oh me oh my!! And a Lenz to boot, oh no!!" I think it's a very cool bike Cut, love the blue and also the swoopy lines that define it as Lenz. Oh, and in my humble opinion, of all the 29er forks out there the Manitous definitely are the best looking.
    I like bikes.

  17. #17
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    1. That color is not "ghey". It is a stunning color for a girl's bike.

    2. You are right that there are circumstances where 26" wheels are still superior. For instance, they pack much more easily into small cars/trunks, and it is easier to find wheel bags for them.

    3. I'll look forward to seeing it in action. Mrs. Kosmo and I will be out your way (and Vernal) for a couple weeks the second half of April. Please have the trails nicely swept for her, and consider doubling the length of Kestle Run (her single favorite trail).

    Kosmo
    Whining is not a strategy.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by kosmo
    That color is not "ghey". It is a stunning color for a girl's bike.
    I agree with Kosmo.

    Quote Originally Posted by cutthroat
    anything more than a large just looks retarded
    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs Cutthroat
    He wouldn't know what a "large" looked like if it followed him home and humped his leg
    Cutty, your status as a member of The Homer Elite is hereby revoked. I'm sure this will trouble you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cactuscorn wannabe
    I agree, the Fo blog haters need to get a life
    Fo has a blog? I thought he just provided somewhere for one person a week to post some rambling horse excrement.

    Happy new bike Cutty.

  19. #19
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    I love bb7's, I run them on my FR bike; great brakes and EASY maintenance!
    "you never know!" -Tater

  20. #20
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    Damn it! So the trails are still sloppy down there? I'm supposed to be riding Fruita/GJ next weekend. Looks like I'll be heading down to St. G instead!
    Team Sanchez; "Always hittin the upper lip"

  21. #21
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    Great!!

    Quote Originally Posted by El Chingon
    Damn it! So the trails are still sloppy down there? I'm supposed to be riding Fruita/GJ next weekend. Looks like I'll be heading down to St. G instead!
    That's sweet Ben, we'll ride for sure
    I like bikes.

  22. #22
    trail fairy
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    Haha Moosey love it BigFoot that's def a sweet 9er reference

    Cutty cuty cutty after all the RFX mods and getting err right ya went fully off the rails and chased the rainbows, oh well as long as ya happy with yer ride!

    Just riding a muddy trail. . ..

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  23. #23
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    I love it,

    Yo CT she's looken great my man..I'm so glad you bought this bike (At that price how could you not?) anyway I think the bike is and looks super..I'm looking very much forward to you riding her and getting back to us with all the nitty gritty..As a V1 Sultan owner and now this your opinion (to me) will hold a VERY high reguard..Congrats and enjoy....CF.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by starre
    big weight difference between the v1 sultan and the moth or about the same? thanx!
    Frame, shock, and headset on the Lenz weighed 6.5lbs even, so it's about the same if not a little lighter than the v.1 Sultan.
    El C - I drove to Green River yesterday and the entire drive was nothing but white stuff - all the north facing slopes at Kokopelli's and Rabbit Valley were covered in a least a foot of snow. I have actually never seen it so thick out there. Temps are warming but, it will probably be a couple of weeks before anything is really rideable - the stuff higher up around Lunch Loops and then around the La Sals looks like Alaska.
    Thanks for the props people - hopefully I can get some meaningful comparisons with the Sultan once the trails open up.
    One thing that's a bit of a pain with the frame is that the front derailleur needs to be dremeled a bit to make it fit around the BB pivot. The nearly vertical seat tube makes the rear of the derailleur cage rub on the chain when you're in the granny ring. You need to lower the derailleur more than normal. It's not a big issue and takes only a couple of minutes with the dremel to shave off a bit of the lower cage, but that is one design issue that Devin could work on - seems like a braze on mount would solve it.
    When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. ~H.G. Wells

  25. #25
    rr
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    That's a pound lighter than my XL w/no headset

    Have you been to Pueblo yet?, the trails will be dry this weekend, worth the trip for sure!

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by rroeder
    That's a pound lighter than my XL w/no headset

    Have you been to Pueblo yet?, the trails will be dry this weekend, worth the trip for sure!
    Pueblo? Sounds like an option worth exploring. I had no clue there was any riding down there. The stuff on the front range is probably drying out now too - Red Rocks, Matthews Winters, Dakota Ridge - if you can stand the crowds.
    When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. ~H.G. Wells

  27. #27
    rr
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    Quote Originally Posted by cutthroat
    Pueblo? Sounds like an option worth exploring. I had no clue there was any riding down there. The stuff on the front range is probably drying out now too - Red Rocks, Matthews Winters, Dakota Ridge - if you can stand the crowds.
    Nope, front range trails are a mess right now, warm temps melting old snow.

    You NEED to checkout Pueblo, take a look at the front range forum for info, we are headed down tomm and will hit the dry trails but the locals say everything will be dry by this weekend, and 60 degrees!

  28. #28
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    I don;t get the whole having 2 x 29ers in the stable thing, I could live with one for something different but x 2, too much ADAHD
    Just riding a muddy trail. . ..

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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by trailadvent
    I don;t get the whole having 2 x 29ers in the stable thing, I could live with one for something different but x 2, too much ADAHD
    Well, if you count the Litespeed Ultimate and the Kona Paddy Wagon fixie, I technically have 4 29ers in the stable. TA, the Lenz is a pretty significant departure from the Sultan - I missed having more travel in the back, and the Lenz at 5" fixes that. The slacker 69.5 HT angle and tighter frame will hopefully make this bike shine on the techy stuff. The Sultan is still almost 2lbs lighter and will be used for longer epics, flowy single track and terrain that's not quite as rough - kind of like having a Flux and an RFX to play with only in the 29er format. As far as the merits of the wheel size - I won't flog that horse any longer - for me the 29" just kills it. YMMV.
    When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. ~H.G. Wells

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by trailadvent
    I don;t get the whole having 2 x 29ers in the stable thing, I could live with one for something different but x 2, too much ADAHD
    How many have you ridden?


  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by cutthroat
    Well, if you count the Litespeed Ultimate and the Kona Paddy Wagon fixie, I technically have 4 29ers in the stable. TA, the Lenz is a pretty significant departure from the Sultan - I missed having more travel in the back, and the Lenz at 5" fixes that. The slacker 69.5 HT angle and tighter frame will hopefully make this bike shine on the techy stuff. The Sultan is still almost 2lbs lighter and will be used for longer epics, flowy single track and terrain that's not quite as rough - kind of like having a Flux and an RFX to play with only in the 29er format. As far as the merits of the wheel size - I won't flog that horse any longer - for me the 29" just kills it. YMMV.
    Geez 4 that's twice as bad, fair enough dude all good, good to be passionate and if it fits and ya enjoy it then cool, am surprised the Lenz is such a big diff, is ya Sulty a DWL ver or TNT?

    Good analogy on the Flux, RFX surprised there's that big of a difference.

    No worries dude everyone to there own on wheel size if it fits wear it, I was just teasing mainly, loved some of the coments, still enjoy Cutty
    Just riding a muddy trail. . ..

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  32. #32
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    But, but....the bigger wheels really hinder your technical riding ability!

    <object width="400" height="225"><param name="allowfullscreen" value="true" /><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always" /><param name="movie" value="http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=9824201&amp;server=vimeo.com &amp;show_title=1&amp;show_byline=1&amp;show_portr ait=0&amp;color=&amp;fullscreen=1" /><embed src="http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=9824201&amp;server=vimeo.com &amp;show_title=1&amp;show_byline=1&amp;show_portr ait=0&amp;color=&amp;fullscreen=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" width="400" height="225"></embed></object><p><a href="http://vimeo.com/9824201">Chris Akrigg THE MAURICE.0</a> from <a href="http://vimeo.com/user1089639">chris akrigg</a> on <a href="http://vimeo.com">Vimeo</a>.</p>


  33. #33
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    Sweet! It helps me to know the Turner forum is now a multiple-manufacturer 29er forum. For the first spring since 2004 (is that right?), I don't own a Turner. I'm happy with gnar-free riding on the 3" racer-x 29er, in beautiful poofta red.

    We're having our first spring melt in town, meaning there is now only a couple of feet of snow. The best part is that the roads are clear and dry, if you overlook 6 months of sand and gravel accumulation. Gets me all bike excited. I've started riding the FS 29er around the hood with the dogs.

    Back to fighting for my institue and 15 jobs. I might also admit to a wee bit of skiing. My BFF ON3P skis sort of look like your Lenz.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by jncarpenter
    But, but....the bigger wheels really hinder your technical riding ability!

    <object height="225" width="400">


    <embed src="http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=9824201&server=vimeo.com&sho w_title=1&show_byline=1&show_portrait=0&color=&ful lscreen=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" height="225" width="400"></object> from chris akrigg on Vimeo.
    Nice vid. Most fixed gear vids seem a little lame, but that one was great.
    Quote Originally Posted by buddhak
    And I thought I had a bike obsession. You are at once tragic and awesome.

  35. #35
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    Not really

    Quote Originally Posted by trailadvent
    I don;t get the whole having 2 x 29ers in the stable thing, I could live with one for something different but x 2, too much ADAHD
    A 29er with 23mm tires and drop bars you use on cement with a FS 29er are the only two I would own. Otherwise, I enjoy having my ancient Spot for aggressive riding and my new Niner RIP for more cross country rides. Perfect combo.

  36. #36
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    Congrats on new bike, now I don't feel bad for stealing those Spot stays from you on "flea-bay" sometime ago. I am not a big 29'er fan myself, for the riding I like to do at least, but must say if I were going to get one, it would be something more like that. The Lenz looks pretty nimble for a 29'er and my main beef with most traditional 29'ers out there, being more suited to the XC realm of things in stance and feel. Looks like Lenz is breaking that mold, epsecially with their DH 29'er rigs they have. New bikes rule!
    Ride On!

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enel
    Nice vid. Most fixed gear vids seem a little lame, but that one was great.
    Ya I thought that was a fix-e.. Great video,......CF.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by jncarpenter
    But, but....the bigger wheels really hinder your technical riding ability!

    <object width="400" height="225"><param name="allowfullscreen" value="true" /><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always" /><param name="movie" value="http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=9824201&amp;server=vimeo.com &amp;show_title=1&amp;show_byline=1&amp;show_portr ait=0&amp;color=&amp;fullscreen=1" /><embed src="http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=9824201&amp;server=vimeo.com &amp;show_title=1&amp;show_byline=1&amp;show_portr ait=0&amp;color=&amp;fullscreen=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" width="400" height="225"></embed></object><p><a href="http://vimeo.com/9824201">Chris Akrigg THE MAURICE.0</a> from <a href="http://vimeo.com/user1089639">chris akrigg</a> on <a href="http://vimeo.com">Vimeo</a>.</p>
    No helmet?

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tidybeard
    No helmet?
    Just riding a muddy trail. . ..

    MAXXIS 4C!
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  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by cutthroat
    . Once the weather dries things out we'll see about a comparison between the Behemoth and the Sultan.
    Well, let's hear what you think of the moth vs sultan.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by crashtoomuch
    Well, let's hear what you think of the moth vs sultan.
    Well, since you asked:

    The Behemoth took a little while to tune up properly. I added a 1" set back post, a HV can and shim on the RP23, lowered the stem and added Salsa flat bars, got rid of the 36 front ring and swapped to a 32, added a Specialized Purgatory 2.4 front tire, and things really started feeling good. For the past month I've been riding nothing but the Behemoth to really get a feel for it, then just a couple of days ago hopped back on to the Sultan for purposes of comparison. The two bikes are quite different beasts despite their numerous similarities in terms of component set ups and linkage. The Behemoth is a medium vs. the Sultan being a large. The Behemoth is just over an inch shorter in the wheelbase, due to the shorter stays. It also has the 69.5 degree HTA.

    Bottom line is that the Behemoth is a better performer in the real rough technical stuff, both going up and down. I did a full day in Fruita and GJ once I had it set up and the rain and snow finally stopped. The ride was Mary's to Horsethief Bench, to Steve's Loop to Mack Ridge to Lion's Loop and then back down Mary's to the car for lunch. That afternoon it was Holy Cross, Lemon Squeezer, Ali Ali and an easy run out on Miramonte - about 25 or 30 miles total. I was able to clean a whole lot of stuff that typically gave me fits on the Sultan, big ledge moves going up were easier and the bike was way easier to loft off stuff going down (not that I do anything particularly big 2-3 feet is my max). The bike just feels quicker and more nimble than the Sultan. I rode it like my old RFX, and it behaved like the old RFX.

    Getting back on the Sultan over the last couple of days felt weird, but after an hour I settled right back in. On flowing single track the bike just rails, and having the big ring is an eye-opener after getting accustomed to really high RPMs on the 2 ring set up. For high speed stability on rolling terrain the Sultan rules. It's also 1-2 pounds lighter. It's tougher to pin the techy moves on the uphills, and you need to use more careful line selection on the downs, but the cockpit feels way more comfortable after a couple of hours compared to the Behemoth.

    I'm heading out for 5 days in Utah on Wednesday for a White Rim trip with some other rides both coming and going, and the bike I'm taking is the Sultan. For long miles in the saddle it's the obvious choice. If the White Rim wasn't in the picture I'd bring the Behemoth. So for stuff like Monarch Crest, White Rim, any high country single track of Colorado, the Sultan is the ride. For desert tech and rock riding, it's the Behemoth.

    Basically, for XC leaning to Trail riding, the Sultan wins out. For Trail riding leading to AM, the Behemoth takes it. Pretty much just what I expected.
    When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. ~H.G. Wells

  42. #42
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    great review! it's interesting that the wheelbase turned out to be 'only' 1" shorter. your M Behemoth is 1" shorter in the TT and another 1" in the chain stay than the TNT sultan, so i guess that means the 69.5 HA is pushing the fork an extra inch forward than the 120mm fork you've got on the TNT sultan??? do you think if you would have gone for a large behemoth with a longer TT it would have been more of an all day machine or is it the extra weight and cush that you feel is dragging you down?

    my impression from what you've wrote is that the newer DW sultan is just about half way between the TNT sultan and the Behemoth, and for me already riding the TNT sultan, the DW version seems to be more an incremental improvement on the TNT than a complete new platform (it's difficult for me to find one to try out and compare overseas). i think i'd like to see a Turner 29er that's more like the behemoth, but unfortunately as i understand it market demand for longer travel 29ers is pretty small.

    thanx!
    Last edited by starre; 05-11-2010 at 12:25 AM.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by starre
    great review! it's interesting that the wheelbase turned out to be 'only' 1" shorter. your M Behemoth is 1" shorter in the TT and another 1" in the chain stay than the TNT sultan, so i guess that means the 69.5 HA is pushing the fork an extra inch forward than the 120mm fork you've got on the TNT sultan???

    my impression from what you've wrote is that the newer DW sultan is just about half way between the TNT sultan and the Behemoth, and for me already riding the TNT sultan, the DW version seems to be more an incremental improvement on the TNT than a complete new platform thanx!
    If you compare the specs, the Medium Behemoth has a stated wheelbase of 44.25", the large Sultan is 44.7", so there's only half an inch difference. Running the 120mm fork on the Sultan kicks out the front end further so that's the reason for the 1" difference. The real difference in feel comes from the steeper seat tube angle, shorter chainstays and slacker head tube angle - the rear end powers up quicker, and it's tucked under the saddle more, especially with the lay-back post. The slacker HT angle just works better (hence the 120mm on the Sultan). The wandering tendency with the slacker and longer angles is cured by pulling all the spacers out from under the stem, running a zero rise stem and flat or very low rise bars. I think a large would feel roomier, but at the expense of the nimbleness of the medium. I'm 6' and I feel pretty much at the upper edge of being able to ride a medium comfortably.

    I can't comment on the DW Sultan since I've only ridden on one briefly. I think most would say it is a big step up from the TNT in the trail bike department, and probably closer to the Behemoth than not.
    When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. ~H.G. Wells

  44. #44
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    Which one is better suited to shifting and braking at the same time while adjusting your gravity crutcher and filming video via a handlebar remote?

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    Quote Originally Posted by rroeder
    Which one is better suited to shifting and braking at the same time while adjusting your gravity crutcher and filming video via a handlebar remote?
    Obviously the Sultan outfitted with Bic pen remote cable inserter and multiple camera mounts, but it might interfere with 2 finger braking to control everything from the bar.
    When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. ~H.G. Wells

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    cutty: thanx again! when you took out the spacers, etc, on the Beth, did u find yourself in a more uncomfortable riding position than the sultan, more hunched over or did the shorter TT/cockpit compensate for that? thanx! (and sorry if it feels like i am nitpicking - i enjoy hearing these particular details as i have ridden my TNT sultan day in and day out for 3 years now and come to know it very well and my impressions of it's suitability to XC vs. all mountain terrain are similar to yours)

    Quote Originally Posted by cutthroat
    If you compare the specs, the Medium Behemoth has a stated wheelbase of 44.25", the large Sultan is 44.7", so there's only half an inch difference. Running the 120mm fork on the Sultan kicks out the front end further so that's the reason for the 1" difference. The real difference in feel comes from the steeper seat tube angle, shorter chainstays and slacker head tube angle - the rear end powers up quicker, and it's tucked under the saddle more, especially with the lay-back post. The slacker HT angle just works better (hence the 120mm on the Sultan). The wandering tendency with the slacker and longer angles is cured by pulling all the spacers out from under the stem, running a zero rise stem and flat or very low rise bars. I think a large would feel roomier, but at the expense of the nimbleness of the medium. I'm 6' and I feel pretty much at the upper edge of being able to ride a medium comfortably.

    I can't comment on the DW Sultan since I've only ridden on one briefly. I think most would say it is a big step up from the TNT in the trail bike department, and probably closer to the Behemoth than not.
    Last edited by starre; 05-12-2010 at 12:04 AM.

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