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  1. #1
    "Its All Good"
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    I would like to see some synergy between Nicolai and Turner

    Am not at all trolling..................

    DT and Karl worked together in the young days, both producing great frames, etc....

    You all well know the great CS with Turner.... I know the great CS with Nicolai, and I know that the perceived CS level that has happened in the USA has not been great from feedback, but this is also directly related to the USA Nicolai importer that was in place, of which is not any longer.....

    Nicolai is not a big player in the USA, for a raft of reasons..... A synergy would help both companies greatly...

    I feel that, screw the rumours of a DW link hookup.... What we should have is some sort of hook up with Turner/Nicolai......

    Flame me, go for it, but I still think it would be great...........................
    Last edited by Whafe; 06-20-2008 at 04:58 AM.
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  2. #2
    Nightriding rules SuperModerator
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    That would be pretty cool

    Helius RFX

  3. #3
    "Its All Good"
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    Didnt get to names..... LOL

    Everything starts with a thought.....
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  4. #4
    thats right living legend
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    Are you off your meds again?
    Can't stop, Won't stop.

  5. #5
    Rides like wrecking ball
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    Other than for "warm fuzzies" why should DT help KN build up his business over here and create more competition for himself? Also, Turner already struggles at times to get frames out in reasonable times so increasing their business overseas doesn't seem like an option there. Lastly (if I remember right) DT respects the gearboxes but has no problem bolting a derailleur to his frames so KN has nothing DT would want.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hesh to Steel
    With people liking mongoose and trek bikes now, what's next in this crazy world? People disliking the bottlerocket?!

  6. #6
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    I don't know how this ties in, but Turner has returned to Germany under distribution by Toxoholics.

  7. #7
    "Its All Good"
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    Bulldog - Hear you loud and clear, for sure there could well be more than warm and fuzzies. And of course am probly in dreamland, but spending time in Warsaw does that to me....
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  8. #8
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    While I think synergy between Nic and Turner is way off, there appears to be some synergy between the owners of Turner and Ventana, as well as their customers. It's not an impossibility, but highly unlikely. Their philosphies are too divergent at this point, I would think. DT and I disagree on this point, but I do like the looks of some of the more conservative/conventional frames from Nic.

    As far as technology goes...well...anything is possible, I suppose, but I think they work better being independent of one another and unattenuated in their separate missions.

  9. #9
    Lay off the Levers
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    Is it Clown Crap Friday already?

    Not to throw water on ya brah, but what's Turner get out of this?
    Nicolai gets:
    -Better access to us markets
    -Better brand name recognition
    -Turner's endorsement/validation (not that Nicolai needs it but still it looks good to have an established brand help out

    But, I don't see what Turner gets in retrun for the efforts and costs involved.
    Turner has to :
    -dilute his market share
    -face greater pressure from another Horst Link/ICT brand saying it's better just because.
    -deal with the preception that he couldn't go it alone so he got help from Nicolai
    -deal with whatever legal issues are involved with the horst link on the Nicolai bikes in the US.

    I mean, Nicolai isn't building or designing anything DT can't or isn't doing or has done in the past. Apart from the HL, whatever design differences exist between the bikes is more a matter of the designer's preference and their perception of what market wants, and IMO DT's put more time into listening to the US market than Nicolai has.


    So what's Nicolai going to do for Turner?
    Faster is better, even when it's not.

  10. #10
    "Its All Good"
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    Well I am a plonka..... LOL............... Have thought more about it and I should have taken my meds.....

    And am indeed sorry to have messed with peoples time......
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  11. #11
    Team Blindspot
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    No way! We can't bring Crazy Fred back into the mix. It will be an apocolyptic, pain filled affair. All he!! will break loose, Cats and dogs living with eachother.

    You know, the more I think about it, this could make things interesting.
    Astigmatic Visionary

  12. #12
    Bodhisattva
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    While I think synergy between Nic and Turner is way off, there appears to be some synergy between the owners of Turner and Ventana, as well as their customers.
    The "synergy" between Ventana & Turner owners are due to shared characteristics between the brands, including:

    - long track record
    - well designed
    - durability
    - superb C.S.
    - easy phone access and ability to speak with knowledgeable people directly
    - evolving designs to suit people's wants & needs
    - mutual respect between the owners of the companies

    But there hasn't been any synergy between the operations of Turner & Ventana since the 90s when Ventana produced some Turner frames

    I've never ridden a Nic but aesthetically I find them to be rather atrocious

    edit: I'll also add that some of the overlap between T & V I think may be due to the fact that a number of prominent MTBR dealers sell both brands
    Life....the original terminal illness

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel
    The "synergy" between Ventana & Turner owners are due to shared characteristics between the brands, including:

    - long track record
    - well designed
    - durability
    - superb C.S.
    - easy phone access and ability to speak with knowledgeable people directly
    - evolving designs to suit people's wants & needs
    - mutual respect between the owners of the companies

    But there hasn't been any synergy between the operations of Turner & Ventana since the 90s when Ventana produced some Turner frames

    I've never ridden a Nic but aesthetically I find them to be rather atrocious
    Funny, because there appears to be another brand with shared characteristics, but nothing else on that list.

  14. #14
    "Its All Good"
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel
    I've never ridden a Nic but aesthetically I find them to be rather atrocious
    Squeak Momma - Beauty is in the eye of the beholder..... Am hoping that you dont make your bike choices purely on aesthetics alone..... The ride would blow you out, not literally though.....
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  15. #15
    Bodhisattva
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whafe
    Squeak Momma - Beauty is in the eye of the beholder..... Am hoping that you dont make your bike choices purely on aesthetics alone..... The ride would blow you out, not literally though.....
    Yup, beauty...eye...gotcha. Aesthetics does play somewhat of a role. It's part of the total package.

    I mean no disrespect to the brand as I have no 1st hand experience.

    Just an observation.

    PS: Does Nic make niners?
    Life....the original terminal illness

  16. #16
    Nightriding rules SuperModerator
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel

    PS: Does Nic make niners?
    custom order...

  17. #17
    "Its All Good"
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel
    Yup, beauty...eye...gotcha. Aesthetics does play somewhat of a role. It's part of the total package.

    I mean no disrespect to the brand as I have no 1st hand experience.

    Just an observation.
    No disrespect taken at all..... They are a frame that you either love or hate pretty much....

    I rate 4 frame makers real focken high in regards to FS frames in no particular order (A - Z in this case) and for a vast number of reasons = Knolly, Nicolai, Turner & Ventana......

    If we jump to rigid 29er frames, more builders come into the picture....
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  18. #18
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    Why not some synergy between Turner and Ells? I mean DT could then bring the horst link back and put those nice little ICT stickers on his frames.
    "I didn't even use crutches when I broke my leg!" - Aquaholic

  19. #19
    TLL
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    Turnicolai

    Quote Originally Posted by Whafe
    I rate 4 frame makers real focken high in regards to FS frames in no particular order (A - Z in this case) and for a vast number of reasons = Knolly, Nicolai, Turner & Ventana......
    Good list.

    As far as synergy, why not have JNC make some [SIZE="5"]"TurNicolai"[/SIZE] stickers for your Nicolai?

    (sounds like a bad case of food poisoning, now that I think of it)

  20. #20
    Lay off the Levers
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinch
    Why not some synergy between Turner and Ells? I mean DT could then bring the horst link back and put those nice little ICT stickers on his frames.
    He could save a lot of time and money if he just took his seat off and rode around on the post.
    Faster is better, even when it's not.

  21. #21
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    Ellsworth has enough trouble right now. I'm not sure anyone would want to hook up with them right now. Their employment revolving door is spinning faster that an ice skater.

    Whafe's idea is good but from the surface only. He wants to blend the best of both companies. Obviously, Nicolai has much more to gain while Turner would probably dilute its market share and the company philosophies are probably very different.

    I really need to know What Fork for a RFX or I want a Wotan/Woman but I'm really not looking forward to opening a new thread.

  22. #22
    Bodhisattva
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whafe
    No disrespect taken at all..... They are a frame that you either love or hate pretty much....

    I rate 4 frame makers real focken high in regards to FS frames in no particular order (A - Z in this case) and for a vast number of reasons = Knolly, Nicolai, Turner & Ventana......

    If we jump to rigid 29er frames, more builders come into the picture....
    That list works for me.

    My LBS/On-line dealer sells 3 of those 4 brands (he doesn't sell the ugly one)
    Last edited by The Squeaky Wheel; 06-20-2008 at 09:03 AM.
    Life....the original terminal illness

  23. #23
    Team Sanchez
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    Whafe, I think you're in the wrong forum. YOu should run over to the Jamis forum and see if you can't generate some Synergy over there. The designs are identical, so it should be a match made in heaven.
    Team Sanchez; "Always hittin the upper lip"

  24. #24
    thats right living legend
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    I don't see how anyone could possibly think Nicolai's are ugly. They use straite tubes just like Turner? There a little "German" looking which means they've got a bit of that S&M thing going on but hey whatever.

    Germans can be kinda creepy sometimes.
    Can't stop, Won't stop.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackagness
    I don't see how anyone could possibly think Nicolai's are ugly. They use straite tubes just like Turner? There a little "German" looking which means they've got a bit of that S&M thing going on but hey whatever.

    Germans can be kinda creepy sometimes.
    The Germans are really into Sheisse.

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