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Thread: I failed... :(

  1. #1
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    I failed... :(

    tried to get it around 27lbs but it came out a bit portly at 29...


    Oh well.


    Oh yah. I know the cable routing is ugly, Imma gonna fix it.

  2. #2
    bike weenie
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    Must be the waterbottle cage...

    Funny though - where are you hiding the weight, brakes and wheels? My XL spot is 29 even with coil fork (vanilla) and coil shock (ccdb).

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by RWGreen
    Must be the waterbottle cage...

    Funny though - where are you hiding the weight, brakes and wheels? My XL spot is 29 even with coil fork (vanilla) and coil shock (ccdb).
    Yeah, I have no friggin idea...XTR rollin' on Mavic 819's are apparently not that light.

  4. #4
    Knomer
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    Quote Originally Posted by El_Chimichanga
    Oh yah. I know the cable routing is ugly, Imma gonna fix it.
    How? Weld new guides on?
    Global Director of Sales: Knolly Bikes

  5. #5
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    My XL came in at 30.1 and that's going down a little later this week/early next with some carbon bars and an X4 stem. I have a Revelation U-Turn which is under 4 pounds.
    I've heard the 819 wheels are a little heavy but should be fine for a Spot.
    Big hoopy.
    Turner Sultan / On One Inbred

  6. #6
    Never enough time to ride
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dusty Bottoms
    How? Weld new guides on?
    Naw!! But ya can bolt some on!!

    And my XL Burner weighs in at about 29lbs or so depending on the shock. I could lose some with different tires and a few other bits but I like what I got, it just works.

    happy trails...

    squish
    Last edited by squish; 09-18-2007 at 10:07 AM.
    Get out and ride!

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by squish
    Naw!! But ya can bolt some on!!

    And my XL Burner weighs in at about 29lbs or so depending on the shock. I could lose some with different tires and a few other bits but I like what I got, it just works.

    happy trails...

    squish
    Have I mentioned that I like the routing on my Spot? The '06 has built-in hose guides. I used screw-ins like Squish on the Burner. The LBS charged me about $2 for them plus I had a stick-on in the middle of the TT.

    I'm still surprised that my Spot came in just .6# more than the Burner with the addition of a heavier fork and shock.
    Big hoopy.
    Turner Sultan / On One Inbred

  8. #8
    Turner Homer
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    I just drilled out the stops on my burner, and then took apart the hose on my hope mini's, and fished it through. Btw still a nice bike.
    Dave

  9. #9
    Elitest thrill junkie
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    It's the seat, the rims, the bottle cage, and I wonder what hubs you're using?
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  10. #10
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    Your scale

    Something must be off. I have a pretty similar build - Med frame, King/819's, but with a DHX - Air and heavy-ass PD647 pedals. I'm 29 lbs even w/ 2.35 Kendas.

  11. #11
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    Hmm..Well, the hubs are XTR, The seat has Ti rails, the post is a MASTERPIECE and the tires are supposedly XC... 2.1 in the front and a 2.0 in the back.

    X9 shifting, CNT bars, I dunno what else...and the water bottle cage is not the problem.

    I weighed it on the Shipping scale at work...It's usually accurate.

    My best guess is that the frame is a little heavy and the wheels and tires weigh more than I thought they would.

    Problem is that the bike shop barely let me buy this frame because the last XC bike I owned (5-spot) lasted 2 months before it turned into my 6-pack via the warranty fairy. These wheels were the lightest my friends would let me spec on the bike.

  12. #12
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    Weird

    Are those DH tires filled with slime? My med 5 Spot with a coil minute 1 and a resevior 4 way air, and 2.25/2.35 tires weighs 28.5 so I wonder if you're scale is accurate. Oh well as I've found out it's the rider and not the ride; I'm allmost as slow on a 23 lb hardtail as I am on a 36 lb 6" Turner so I'm saving my $$ and throwing my scale away

  13. #13
    Elitest thrill junkie
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    Quote Originally Posted by El_Chimichanga
    Hmm..Well, the hubs are XTR, The seat has Ti rails, the post is a MASTERPIECE and the tires are supposedly XC... 2.1 in the front and a 2.0 in the back.

    X9 shifting, CNT bars, I dunno what else...and the water bottle cage is not the problem.

    I weighed it on the Shipping scale at work...It's usually accurate.

    My best guess is that the frame is a little heavy and the wheels and tires weigh more than I thought they would.

    Problem is that the bike shop barely let me buy this frame because the last XC bike I owned (5-spot) lasted 2 months before it turned into my 6-pack via the warranty fairy. These wheels were the lightest my friends would let me spec on the bike.
    Doesn't really matter about the ti railed saddle, there's plenty of them that weigh in at 300g or more, and due to the volume of your seat, I'd imagine it's up there.

    The XM819s have a good deal of extra weight compared to the 719s, it's in those little alloy nipple-cups. The rims weigh something like 510+g total, whereas a 719 (very similer rim) weighs about 460g. Maybe not much, but it adds up. Another thing I can usually not figure is why so many people run the same rim front and back. The front wheel sees a lot less stress compared to the rear, and therefor it doesn't need to be as strong usually, so it can be a little lighter. With the front wheel, put the supercomp or revolution spokes on it, and build it with a little lighter rim. I've been doing this for years and it works out fine, basically a lot of people are lugging around more weight in the front of their bike than they need to be.

    Another big source of weight sometimes is the rear cassette, if it's one of the older sram PG series. The shimano XT is a good lightweight cassette at about 264g, and lighter if you use an alloy lockring, XTR is even lighter, but not necessarily a good deal due to how much more expensive.

    Also....eggbeaters. This is why they exist.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  14. #14
    Never enough time to ride
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    Lookin at it, your rims are going to be a bit on the piggy side, but they're pretty stout. All in all your wheels probably aren't the lightest but you've got good quality parts and I don't think I'd mess with em to much if your happy with em.

    You could try a lighter set of pedals, but if you like what you got, why? And your seat looks a little bulky but if it's comfortable why change it? I guess what I'm trying to say, is if you like what ya got use it!! Just take a big poop before ya ride and you'll never notice the difference

    It is odd that your coming in so heavy. My build looks a bit like this XL Burner Frame w/ Fox Vanilla RC and X rockers (my float is on it's way to dtrek), Fox TALAS RLC fork, king/dt wheel set, Maxxis Minion DHf 2.35" w/ Stan's, Juicy 7's w/ 6" rotors, Thomson Stem, Race Face Next Bar, Race Face Turbine cranks and XS BB, X.0 rear, and Xgen front (no issues thanks much) SRAM chain, and XT cassette, X.9 shifters, Shadow V seat and Thomson post, oh yeah and Shimano 540 pedals. Grand total for weight is right around 30 lbs and some change, about a pound less with the Float RL on the back w/ the XR rockers.

    But if you really want to lose some weight, look at a lighter wheel set, and I can't tell what your using for tires, cept that they are Kendas, look at a lighter set of tires maybe. Pedals will save you a good chunk of change, and maybe a seat but that's one of those parts you really don't want to sacrifice, if your seat sucks the whole ride sucks!!

    Just my .02.

    By the way what do you have goin on with that rear deraileur housing??

    happy trails...

    squish
    Get out and ride!

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    Doesn't really matter about the ti railed saddle, there's plenty of them that weigh in at 300g or more, and due to the volume of your seat, I'd imagine it's up there.
    The seat is apparently WTB Rocket V, which comes in 250g max, those hoops are around 510grams so if you want something lighter (for XC use) get DT 4.1d. Speaking of DT you could get nice wheels with DT240s hubs + DT Supercomp spokes and those 4.1d hoops + you coud add DT/Eclipse Tubeless kit if you want to run tubeless.

    I think that the weight lies in the wheels and brakes, don't know about WW bike being equiped w/ XT brakes, XTR hubs and those Kendas.
    Get Martas w/ 7 and 6 rotors and some nice Hutchinson Spider Airlight tires and you'll drop more than pound.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    Doesn't really matter about the ti railed saddle, there's plenty of them that weigh in at 300g or more, and due to the volume of your seat, I'd imagine it's up there.

    The XM819s have a good deal of extra weight compared to the 719s, it's in those little alloy nipple-cups. The rims weigh something like 510+g total, whereas a 719 (very similer rim) weighs about 460g. Maybe not much, but it adds up. Another thing I can usually not figure is why so many people run the same rim front and back. The front wheel sees a lot less stress compared to the rear, and therefor it doesn't need to be as strong usually, so it can be a little lighter. With the front wheel, put the supercomp or revolution spokes on it, and build it with a little lighter rim. I've been doing this for years and it works out fine, basically a lot of people are lugging around more weight in the front of their bike than they need to be.

    Another big source of weight sometimes is the rear cassette, if it's one of the older sram PG series. The shimano XT is a good lightweight cassette at about 264g, and lighter if you use an alloy lockring, XTR is even lighter, but not necessarily a good deal due to how much more expensive.

    Also....eggbeaters. This is why they exist.
    I haven't rode on a rim that weighs less than 650grams for like, 4 years, so I thought these were light. I think I put the double butted (revolution?) spokes on these wheels...Cassette is XT. I bought the XT (saint) brakes for 150$ brand new for the pair...I didn't care how much they weighed when I found out how much they were gonna cost me. I could have bought an I-beam saddle and post, yeah that would save like 1/4 pound or more...I guess I just don't know how to be a weight weenie. I was sitting here trying to come up with a response to this and all I could come up with was "Well I like this part cause they don't break and I like that part cause they don't break"

    interesting thing you say about the front and rear rim...I guess for me I always want the front tire to have a bigger contact patch than the rear, so having a smaller front rim just is thinking too far outside the box for me. I weigh 185 (sometimes 195) and I'm 5'11". The BMI says I'm overweight but that thing never counts muscle.

    I hate egg beaters...I can never clip back into them in a hurry. I tried a pair of the DH ones and used them until the pedal came off the spindle 5 months later. I like these new Shimanos so much better.

    Here's something for you Turner geeks and gurus...So I looked at the Fox float that actually came stock on this bike and noticed it has a 1.75" stroke. My friend who works at fox told me Burners use a 1.5 stroke. What's the deal? Did I get some freak shock or something?

  17. #17
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    El C, I'm running Velocity VXC rims, and would wholeheartedly recommend 'em. For a lightweight rim (410g!), they're insanely sturdy, given the pummelling they take on a regular basis due to my ineptitude and complete lack of skill. Give Mike Garcia at Odds and Endos a call!
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by El_Chimichanga
    the tires are supposedly XC... 2.1 in the front and a 2.0 in the back.
    So neither is UST? The 2.0 Nevegal isn't very light (relative to the 2.0 Blue Groove); a 2.1/2.0 set would easily average over 600 grams/tire. If you're not using Stans or super light tubes, you're wheels are the main culprit. That and a number of nice, if not particularly light parts (Thomson stem, Shimano brakes, X9, 959 pedals, TALUS fork, lock on grips, etc.).

    My large Spot weighs the same w/ an RP3. Major differences:
    -I use 2.5 Kendas w/ Stans sealant (no rimstrips needed w/ 819's)
    -King hubs & SuperComp spokes
    -EA70 Monkey Bar
    -No bottle cage
    I can see how those differences would add up to a wash weight-wise.

    I will give you that 29 lbs. sounds like a lot for a bike with air shocks, hydraulic brakes, non-UST tires, and a carbon bar. My Flux meets that description and weighs 24 lbs. Like the others have said though, weight is just a number, but what you have here is a super nice bike that should hold up well and suit your preferences. Ride it and love it!
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by El_Chimichanga

    interesting thing you say about the front and rear rim...I guess for me I always want the front tire to have a bigger contact patch than the rear, so having a smaller front rim just is thinking too far outside the box for me. I weigh 185 (sometimes 195) and I'm 5'11". The BMI says I'm overweight but that thing never counts muscle.

    I hate egg beaters...I can never clip back into them in a hurry. I tried a pair of the DH ones and used them until the pedal came off the spindle 5 months later. I like these new Shimanos so much better.

    Ahh..saint brakes. It starts to get clearer.

    The front contact patch has little to do with what rim you are running up front, at least when the difference between tires and rims is not that significant. If you were running a full DH bike with 25-30mm wide rims, you might have something, but the difference between the 819 up front, and virtually anything else comparible will be about nil, so you'd only save weight, not affect your contact patch. There are some people that are fanatical about how wide their rims are, but with so many tire choices on the market with difference shaped carcasses, I don't find it to be a real valid concern.

    The eggbeaters are NOT like the DH pedals. I have the mallets, and I don't like them much. They are hard to get back into (sometimes you roll across them and not clip in, sometimes they hit rocks, the mechanism doesn't let you just put your foot on it and "sink" in like shimanos). I'd agree fully on this one, however the eggbeaters are exactly what they are supposed to be, a lightweight pedal that has great mud clearance and is fairly easy to get in and out of. It doesn't have as much problem as the DH pedal, because the big cage is not there, and IMO they're just not trying to be anything extra. The eggbeater mech in the cage of the mallet pedal on the other hand is not a great idea IMO, and easily outclassed by 545s, 646s, and a few other pedals.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by miles e
    -King hubs & SuperComp spokes

    Why would he want heavier hubs? That's not going to help.


    (they're almost the same weight, the CKs are a few grams heavier, the CK hubs are not quite as light as they used to be, and the shimano hubs are far lighter than they used to be)
    Last edited by Jayem; 03-15-2006 at 05:00 PM.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    Why would he want heavier hubs? That's not going to help.
    Sorry. For some reason I thought the King's came out a bit lighter, but in reality the XTR's and ISO's are a push weight-wise, once you take into account the slightly heavier Centerlock system.

    Do you buy into this whole cup & cone bearings as a selling point thing that Shimano has been promoting as of late?
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  22. #22
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    You probably herd this already, but shimano claims that the cone system runs smoother than the king, hope, headly cartrage type bearings. In some ways I agree with this, but I think the cartrage desgin wins in my opinion.
    Dave

  23. #23
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    well, there's cartridge bearings, and then there's good cartridge bearings like perhaps some sort of angular contact bearing like with king. That might be one exception, but the run of the mill cartridge bearings are IMO inferior to cup n cone sets. Cup n cones run forever, can be easily rebuilt and adjusted, and most shops have the hardware necessary to repair them, if it's ever an issue. The same can't be said for all of the different cart bearings out there.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  24. #24
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    Bearings

    It's funny that you guys started talking about bearings...I tend to kill them quicker than most people. I have a little theory about bearings...they all suck. I've killed cup & cones, I've killed cartridge, I've killed nice cartridge, it doesn't seem to matter much. The bearings that have impressed me are a) Chris King headset bearings...simply amazing. I've actually never killed a king headset. Also, I ran my rear Hadley hub on my Heckler-5-spot-6pack for 2 years before having to replace everything inside. Everything else I've ever owned lasted 6 to 9 months before needing a complete overhaul, or just replacement.

    I tend to sweat more than most people, so I ruin stuff in a different way than most people. This is why I have continuous housing for the rear derailler. Have you ever had to grease your lock-ons so that you could get tham back off the bike 6 months later? If I don't do that, the only other way to get them off is with channel-locks.

    Oh yah, had my first ride on it tonight. It climbs really, really well. Another thing I noticed is that it is a lot stiffer laterally than I expected. Not very plush though...The suspesion feels like a hardtail until I hit something significant. Maybe I'll play with the air pressures... Overall, it's a nice XC bike. I don't think it'll replace my 6pack anytime soon though.

    Oh yah, the tires are tubeless...
    Last edited by El_Chimichanga; 03-15-2006 at 10:43 PM.

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