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  1. #1
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    Hubs, Hubs, Hubs

    I have a dilema. Can someone please help.
    Given the choice for a 200lb body which hub/rim set would be better:
    DT 370 hub on Mavic 819 rims or...
    XT hubs either on 819's or XT rims?
    Thank you!

  2. #2
    PSI
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    do what everyone else does here....

    get 819s on hope 2s from CRC, free shipping too.

  3. #3
    trail fairy
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    What PSI said, don't waste ya time with XT hubs on the back of ya Turner, not being a bling hard but a great frame and average wheels is a complete waste of time!

    As PSI said.. that's a good combo, try checking out ya local good guys 2 on here like Larry and Chad and Esquire, Krusty etc, @ Go, they might be able to hook ya up also nothing like a good pair of hoops then + a great frame well then ya wonder what the rest of the bike worlds been ruddy doing for so long

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  4. #4
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    XT hubs have loose bearings and you can't service freehub. XT rims have 28 spokes (something like that) and goes out of true quick. Stick with Mavic rims and Hope hubs or something similar.

  5. #5
    Elitest thrill junkie
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cable0guy
    XT hubs have loose bearings and you can't service freehub. XT rims have 28 spokes (something like that) and goes out of true quick. Stick with Mavic rims and Hope hubs or something similar.
    Ok, but a new freehub costs about as much as whatever you'll need to service those "servicable" hubs, such as the pawl kits, etc.

    Why is loose bearings bad?
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    Ok, but a new freehub costs about as much as whatever you'll need to service those "servicable" hubs, such as the pawl kits, etc.

    Why is loose bearings bad?
    I am not playing your game.


  7. #7
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    Yehudanachum,

    Both are great sets of hubs. Like a lot of folks around here, I've traveled many miles on both the DT's and Shimano's. No, the XT's are not blingy, but nearly silent and very dependable. DT 370's are of similar quality, with a little more noise. Keep in mind, a quick search on "engagement" may take you in a whole new direction.
    I would speak directly with the person responsible for building the wheels - their advice is 'usually' pretty valuable... and being able to have your wheels serviced/warrantied locally is a very good thing. (if, in fact, that is possible in your case)

  8. #8
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    Shimano freehubs can be serviced and rebuilt

    I have wheelsets built using XTR 952 hubs, XTR 965 hubs, and DT 240s hubs.Mavic 317 disc and DT 4.1d and 4.2 d rims.

    They all require maintenance to operate as designed which does include lubricating the freehub innards. Cone and cup bearing systems are no more difficult to maintain than cartridge bearings with a caveat, if your idea of maintenance is to not open the hub until it grinds to a halt then cartridge bearings are the way to go. It will be cheaper for you to get new cartridge bearings than to replace the hubs that were ruined by pitting on the bearing races.

    They all work reliably. The freehub on the XTR 952 hubs started to skip after more than 5yrs of use. I removed it and tore it down completely, it does require a tool to get the bearing race out and a replacement dust cap. After cleaning and reassembly (1/2 hr) it is completely functional (a new XTR assembly is $125+). Shimano does not sell spare parts for freehubs but they are by no means throw away assemblies, they can be serviced and rebuilt.

    How to dismantle an XTR M965 Freehub Body ?

    I do lubricate the Shimano freehubs at least 1x per year and you can do it without removing it from the hub using a Morningstar freehub buddy.

  9. #9
    bicycle rider
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    Steer clear of the M775 XT and M975 XTR hubs. I am your size, and in the past month I've broken the axle and toasted the freehub on an M975.

    So far I've had good luck with DT 340 and 240 hubs, don't know anything about Hope hubs. My next ss will have King hubs. I am a big fan of the 819 rim, but I have used the DT 4.1D / 4.2D rim with DT tubeless conversions on two bikes and liked it.

    Morgan

  10. #10
    JmZ
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    Had several sets of hubs.

    I've had good luck so far with - Hügi 240 (DT Swiss), and WTB.

    Only hub that's given me problems had a Shimano Freehub body on it. It was an old Nukeproof hub and the NP bits were good, the shimano bits went bad - go figure. It was $25 fix and two trips to the shop to get it back and running right though.

    The other shimano units I've had were workhorses, and did their job without complaint.

    Still wish I could get the Sachs hubs though. Still like (and have) the one I got 12 years ago.

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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cable0guy
    I am not playing your game.

    Actually, he raises a valid question.

  12. #12
    Elitest thrill junkie
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    Quote Originally Posted by Random Drivel
    Actually, he raises a valid question.
    Bullsh*t, you can't own a turner and not use a rear hub that costs less than $250. It just doesn't make any sense.

    Anyhow, let me put it this way: My DT 340 is no better than an XT hub. I stripped the star-ratchet drive on the 340 and replaced it, I stripped the freehub on the XT and replaced it. The only difference is that the 340 cost way more than the XT to start with and the bearings are not user servicable. The 340 ain't bad, but it ain't all that and a bag of potato chips. Or conversely, there is nothing wrong with the XT.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  13. #13
    Moosehead
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    I hear and understand the whole hang a quality wheelset on a quality frame, the UGI bling thing, and that cheaper XT's can work.

    However, IMO, PSI's rec is spot on with a solid Hope/Mavic setup backed by a local builder or dealer who'll stand by them. Yea, these and comparable CK's may be more expensive entries and have some bling factor, but their best qualities are far more utilitarian - bombproof, long lasting (10+yrs), great seals, user serviceability, killer CS, instant engagement. Plus everything sits and relies on those two wheels and hubs, including my fat arse.

    If you can afford to do so, a little stretch on the hubs/wheelset will take you a long way.

  14. #14
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    1 simple fact: loose balls will roll longer, smoother and with less drag than a cartridge bearing. toss in someone who knows the art of adjusting that old cup n cone unit and some quality grease and its pretty hard to beat. im not sayin its the best way to go overall but yer missin the advantages from a mechanical standpoint.

    and jayem is no troll. he just smells like 1. otherwise, hes got plenty of solid tech info to offer around here. that there is fact #2.

    over the years ive used lx, xt, xtr, king, bullseye, phil wood, dt, woodman, dura ace, ringle', machine tech, white industries, wtb, nuke proof, atom, acs, hugi and hope hubs and many more cheap open bearing bmx hubs too. the whites ate bearings when the ti axles bent but a alloy unit fixed that. the bullseyes had some adjustment retention and tolerance issues but were nutty light. other than that, ive had very good luck. for what its worth, i just built a new set with pro 2's but havent ridden them yet. talk to me in 3 months.

    a xt freehub body is $40. a dt is $100 or more. open bearings are about a buck a side. enduro bearings tend to run $10 to $20 per dependin on size. of course theres the engagement thing and thats where shimano and others like wtb fall way short in the overall. forget about "sealed bearings". thats like sayin "green petrolium plant". they do seal better than a labirynth seal on a open bearing hub and tend to last longer left unattended but dont be fooled beyond that. open bearings are still a very viable option and a solid performer.

    none of this has much to do with the op's question but i thought it should be said.
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  15. #15
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    All that you said about XT hubs are true. But the fact that you can't service the freehub fully [easily] is a major drawback. Instead of cleaning it, we are supposed to buy a new one each time?

    It basically comes down to convenience factor. Most "modern" hubs are very simple to service. For example, with DT Swiss hubs, all you have to do is pull on the cassette to get at the freehub mechanism. Cartridge bearings are also fairly simple to service, by opening up the seal. Unless you screw up bad, the cartridge bearings will last a long time.

    The other downside is the engagement factor. Shimano can't compare to CK, I9, etc.

    Another negative with XT's that you can't convert them to 10mm TA, 12mm TA, etc. You are stuck with QR with the rear (although you can fudge it to make it a bolt-on). Front is either 20mm or QR.

    Lastly, the rims are soft. Mavic rims are as good as you can get.
    Last edited by Cable0guy; 01-15-2009 at 09:41 AM.

  16. #16
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    I've had both XT and DT hubs. Both are very good. XT's are a bit heavier. You can easily service an XT Freehub with a Morningstar Freehub Buddy. Very Easy to do. The cup and cone system is reliable, but there is an art to adjusting them. They are easy to service and adjust with patience. Park tools website has good instructions on how to do this.

    Having said all this, I would go with the DT hubs. If money is an issue, go with the XT's. Get the 819's for you rims with either hub.

    Good Luck.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by S-Works
    I've had both XT and DT hubs. Both are very good. XT's are a bit heavier.
    The newest XT hub is much improved weight and engagement wise and weighs approximately the same as the 340 only its centerlock only (340 comes in IS or centerlock).

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by syadasti
    The newest XT hub is much improved weight and engagement wise and weighs approximately the same as the 340 only its centerlock only (340 comes in IS or centerlock).
    Good to know. I've moved on from shimano to DT and Hadley hubs
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by S-Works
    Good to know. I've moved on from shimano to DT and Hadley hubs
    To be specific, from BTI:

    Quote Originally Posted by BTI - Shimano XT-M775 CL-disc R Q/R hub, 10x135mm - 32h
    # CenterLock 35mm splined, disc brake rotor mount
    # Angular contact bearing system with double contact seals
    # Smooth finish borozon treated races minimize friction
    # Oversized 14mm hollow aluminum axles on QR versions and a 36-point micro-ratchet, 8/9-speed freehub body for faster engagement
    330 grams

  20. #20
    trail fairy
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    Its not about BLING its about good quality and then quality self maintenance! a Homie needs to comprehend this do it ya self mentality its god for the soul! or atleast have a good LBS or Turner LBS support crew!

    This can be done almost as well cost wise! as any OEM specc wheelset if done right!

    CKs if not serviced right will drag but if given the right care and attention can roll and freewheel very well, its just takes a year or so to brake em in properly

    I still won't roll those Shitmano hubs ever again no mater what any one says

    There's better options out there, if ya can't handle Hopes, shop around, don't just let the salesman sell ya whats on the floor!..
    Just riding a muddy trail. . ..

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  21. #21
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    This thread clearly documents that the latest XT hubs aren’t as reliable as older versions. Both the front and rear hubs on my bike decided to fail last winter and the replacements didn’t feel to good when I sold the bike. They’re not particularly smooth, they’re poorly sealed and the added serviceability of cartridge bearings would be much better so I don't know why Shimano sticks with this design, the freehub completely failed on mine too. They’re utterly **** hubs and I’d much rather put up with the noise from Hopes than the poor reliability of XT, which is what I‘ve decided to do on my latest set of wheels.

    I recommend you get the DT 370’s, the engagement is not as good but they’re extremely reliable and my two sets are great feel great…

    Nuke Proof generator’s are another option, they relatively cheap, easily serviced and have good engagement…
    Last edited by EGF168; 01-16-2009 at 11:16 AM.

  22. #22
    Captain Underpants
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    Bullsh*t, you can't own a turner and not use a rear hub that costs less than $250. It just doesn't make any sense.
    You can, but only if you run a gravity dropper as penance.

    I never had issues with XT hubs, but only because I maintained them. Of course, I have low self esteem, which is why I run Hadleys now.

  23. #23
    Team Blindspot
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    Quote Originally Posted by Random Drivel
    You can, but only if you run a gravity dropper as penance.

    I never had issues with XT hubs, but only because I maintained them. Of course, I have low self esteem, which is why I run Hadleys now.
    Same for me, plus I lost patience.
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  24. #24
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    From Mountain Biking by 198:

    An Open Letter To Shimano

    Dear Shimano,

    Over the years, I have watched you create mountain bike parts that are considered a must have amongst many enthusiasts. Your new SLX, XT, XTR and Saint lines for 2009 look like a huge step forward for your product line and I am excited to see new looks and technologies brought to the table for the recreational mountain biker. As we move forward, I look forward to seeing what else Shimano releases.

    The reason for this open letter to your company is my frustration with your hub production. For many years, I ran your XT hub set. During those times, the XT hub set was known for its quality build and free spinning characteristics. While they did not have the best engagement in the industry, they did provide a hub that was worthy of carrying the XT name.

    Over the past couple of years, Shimano has killed their reputation in the hub market. The M756 hub is a disgrace to the XT brand name and Shimano’s engineering capabilities. Not only does the hub have poor engagement, but now that engagement is sloppy and delivered in a less than ideal package. I understand the need for a budget hub for OEM and lower end builds, but the XT lineup is known for high performance at a mid-range price, and the XT hub does not deliver.

    I believe that the mountain biking community is looking for a new direction from Shimano regarding their hub production and engineering. We can look at your other components and see that you can deliver a quality product at almost any price range. What is confusing is why you do not deliver this same quality and price with your hub sets.

    For the purposes of bike reviews, I remove any wheelsets that are based around your XT rear hub. I feel that it actually takes away from the ride of the bike. Instead, I install models from Hope, Chris King, Hadley and others that provide a more dependable, performance centered ride.

    For 2009, you have made some improvements to your hub line and introduced a XT wheelset. I have not ridden these sets, but from what I can tell...it seems like more of the same. Many of the 2009 model year bikes are still being spec'ed with last years XT, so I expect to see that for some time while you try to flush out old inventory.

    Make the XT brand name deliver XT build quality and bring the XT hubs to their rightful place as a high performance hub at the XT price point.

    Regards,
    Robb Sutton
    Mountain Biking by 198

    http://www.mtbtrailreview.com/blog/o...himano/brands/

  25. #25
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    Shimano’s only change to the XT line is a modification to the brakes and an XT 29er wheelset for 2009. The XT AM and XC wheels were new for 2008 and as far as I can tell they haven’t delivered on their promise to look into and fix the problems with the freehubs. You obviously haven’t tried any of the M770 series XT hubs or wheels because the engagement has been improved by quite a lot but the reliability remains pretty awful.

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