Results 1 to 47 of 47
  1. #1
    Lay off the Levers
    Reputation: Bikezilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    10,132

    Idea! HL Chainline & Gravity Light Cranks

    Hey howdy,

    I just thought I'd post something I encountered with setting up my Gravity Light cranks, quad bearings and 83MM shell Highline.

    I noticed my chainrings seemed too far outboard even with just the 2.5mm BB-mounted DRS chainguide. The chain has been pulling off the middle ring when in the largest two cogs, and it dropped off once and got wedged btwn the guide and the granny.

    This is odd as the chainguide has a guard ridge to prevent this.




    Looking at the crankset I noticed a spacer on the spindle near the spider. It turns out it's 2.5mm as well.







    At first I removed it and it looked like it would leave the NDS crank arm too far out but it turns out I was able to push it on the spindle further.





    The crank arms are both ~15mmm from the rocker bolts on each side. Nice and even.






    And the chainguide is close enough to the rings to prevent wedging and the chainline is 2.5mm inboard which should help.


    Too bad I discovered I bent a tooth on the middle ring before I figured this out.

    A kind soul pm'd me(I'll let him speak up if he wishes) and he and confirmed what I found with a email form FSA and that the spindle spacer is for single row bearings and should be removed when using the dual bearing (quad) cups on a 83mm bb shell.

    If you're using this setup and haven't already done so, you might want to double check this as it was pre-installed on my cranks and I somehow missed it in the instructions. Remember to put the o-ring back on.

    FWIW I'm running one 2.5 spacer on the NDS and a E-13 2mm-thick chainguide on the DS. I have a 0.5mm spacer I can add but I don't need to move the the rings outboard.
    Faster is better, even when it's not.

  2. #2
    Natl. Champ DH Poser/Hack
    Reputation: cactuscorn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    12,942
    i knew ya would get it figured out.
    No, I'm NOT back!

  3. #3
    Committed
    Reputation: 1soulrider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,724
    I have had some issues with the chainline on my Highline when running the dual ring set-up.
    It seems that when spacing the cranks out far enough to have the granny ring bolts clear the chainguide pushes the chainline out further than optimum.
    I am running ISIS Holzfeller cranks, I had a MRP LRP guide for a while but have now switched to a E13 DRS.
    With the LRP I was dropping the chain constantly in the rough chatter, the E13 seems a bit better but I have limited ride time on it.
    I have not experimented with other cranksets, but with the Holzfellers the chainline is not ideal.
    Anyone else have anything to say about this?
    It almost seems like the ISCG tabs should be a few mms further inboard to make for a better chainline.

  4. #4
    No, that's not phonetic
    Reputation: tscheezy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    14,363
    Did you read the directions that came with the crank?
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  5. #5
    Lay off the Levers
    Reputation: Bikezilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    10,132
    Quote Originally Posted by tscheezy
    Did you read the directions that came with the crank?
    Yes, I read the fork directions, does that make a difference?
    Faster is better, even when it's not.

  6. #6
    No, that's not phonetic
    Reputation: tscheezy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    14,363
    If you set the PAR pressure to preload the bearings, you could run into issues later.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  7. #7
    Amphibious Technologies
    Reputation: SCUBAPRO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    3,472
    Thanks 'zilla. I run just a DRS on driveside with a 2.5mm spacer on the non-drive side.
    "The best you've ridden is the best you know" - Paul Thede, Race Tech

  8. #8
    Lay off the Levers
    Reputation: Bikezilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    10,132
    Scuba, I'm running the same.

    TS, the online instructions and diagrams at FSA's website do not show or mention the spacer.
    I somehow misplaced the printed instruction booklet that came with them. Anyone know where the rebound knob is on these cranks?
    Faster is better, even when it's not.

  9. #9
    JMH
    JMH is offline
    Sugary Exoskeleton
    Reputation: JMH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    4,663
    The bearing cups you have installed are indeed single-row (are they FSA? I have only seen the brown ano cups with that crankset) so you SHOULD need the spacer. But in the real world things aren't that straightforward. And if those cups happen to be wider than stock FSA, that would explain a lot also. It looks like your setup is much better without it.

    Please continue to Gnar.

    JMH

  10. #10
    Amphibious Technologies
    Reputation: SCUBAPRO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    3,472
    Quote Originally Posted by Bikezilla
    I somehow misplaced the printed instruction booklet that came with them. Anyone know where the rebound knob is on these cranks?
    The RS manual for my Lyrik says its the red knob at the bottom
    "The best you've ridden is the best you know" - Paul Thede, Race Tech

  11. #11
    It's carbon dontcha know.
    Reputation: 6thElement's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    3,887
    I'll check mine out on Friday, but I didn't spend too much time pedalling big/big when I rode at the weekend.

  12. #12
    Lay off the Levers
    Reputation: Bikezilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    10,132
    Quote Originally Posted by JMH
    The bearing cups you have installed are indeed single-row (are they FSA? I have only seen the brown ano cups with that crankset) so you SHOULD need the spacer. But in the real world things aren't that straightforward. And if those cups happen to be wider than stock FSA, that would explain a lot also. It looks like your setup is much better without it.

    Please continue to Gnar.

    JMH

    The cup color is misleading...I painted them gold.
    They were actually black anno to begin with. The web picture shows the brown ones but the black ones in my kit have quad written on them.

    And before TS asks, yes I masked off the threads and labling area so I can tell L from R.

    Now, how much air goes into the Non-drive side?
    Faster is better, even when it's not.

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    289
    Quote Originally Posted by SCUBAPRO
    The RS manual for my Lyrik says its the red knob at the bottom

    You're both wrong.. you're supposed to use the U-turn adjust to rid your cranks of the 2.5mm offset..

    ..FWIW I'm also running the 2.5mm spacer on the non drive side.

    As far as dropping the chain I had to take it to the pros (local bike shop) to get the FD properly adjusted.. From what I saw they moved the low stop almost all the way in (which pushes the cage out) and did a bit of rotational alignment tweakage (about the seatpost.) $5 and 30mins later and it been working like a champ

  14. #14
    Lay off the Levers
    Reputation: Bikezilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    10,132
    Definately adjust the Fder cage as close as possible to the inside face of the chain when on the middle ring. Makes a huge difference.
    Faster is better, even when it's not.

  15. #15
    Natl. Champ DH Poser/Hack
    Reputation: cactuscorn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    12,942
    Quote Originally Posted by Bikezilla
    Now, how much air goes into the Non-drive side?
    morons! the lot of ya! just tilt the nose of yer seat up. why do ya need to make it so difficult all the time with a zillion fancy settings that cost so much to add onto yer already overpriced grips?
    No, I'm NOT back!

  16. #16
    JMH
    JMH is offline
    Sugary Exoskeleton
    Reputation: JMH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    4,663
    Quote Originally Posted by Bikezilla
    the black ones in my kit have quad written on them.
    Heh. The MegaExo Quad cups are HUGE... yours are definitely single-row as are all GL cranksets. I am sure that since it's an 83mm spindle the factory mistakenly thought the cups were supposed to say Quad (like the Gravity crankset uses), so they etched it on there.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  17. #17
    Yay! Bikes !
    Reputation: Nick.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    1,725
    Quote Originally Posted by Bikezilla
    The cup color is misleading...I painted them gold.







    Nick.

  18. #18
    JMH
    JMH is offline
    Sugary Exoskeleton
    Reputation: JMH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    4,663
    Quote Originally Posted by Nick.
    I'll see your Vogue and raise you a Xerxes...
    Attached Images Attached Images

  19. #19
    Lay off the Levers
    Reputation: Bikezilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    10,132
    Quote Originally Posted by JMH
    Heh. The MegaExo Quad cups are HUGE... yours are definitely single-row as are all GL cranksets. I am sure that since it's an 83mm spindle the factory mistakenly thought the cups were supposed to say Quad (like the Gravity crankset uses), so they etched it on there.
    Aaaah. I wondered how they stuffed a second line of bearings in there. Oh BTW the sleeve is alloy on mine, not plastic.
    I'm still confused about the color and config. So the GL are supposed to have brown single cups even on the mega exo? And I'm supposed to use the spindle spacer? Seems better w/o it so I'll give that a go and see where it takes me.

    Thanks for the info!
    Faster is better, even when it's not.

  20. #20
    Lay off the Levers
    Reputation: Bikezilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    10,132
    Quote Originally Posted by 1soulrider
    I have had some issues with the chainline on my Highline when running the dual ring set-up.
    It seems that when spacing the cranks out far enough to have the granny ring bolts clear the chainguide pushes the chainline out further than optimum.
    Anyone else have anything to say about this?
    It almost seems like the ISCG tabs should be a few mms further inboard to make for a better chainline.
    I've read similar comments on the pre-07 RFX as well. Seems the ISCG bolts always need grinding as they just don't fit deeply enough into the countersink.

    I read several posts about ppl grinding this and that, so I eventually decided to go with the BB mounted chainguides.

    Quote Originally Posted by cactuscorn
    just tilt the nose of yer seat up. why do ya need to make it so difficult all the time with a zillion fancy settings that cost so much to add onto yer already overpriced grips?
    Dude, you're nuts. There's no practical way to route the gravity dropper cable through the crank spindle if you tilt your seat up.
    Faster is better, even when it's not.

  21. #21
    Anytime. Anywhere.
    Reputation: Travis Bickle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    4,934
    BZ, thanks for figuring this out before my GL cranks arrive. You saved me a lot of head scratching.
    I got some bad ideas in my head.

  22. #22
    Lay off the Levers
    Reputation: Bikezilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    10,132
    NP Brah. I figured they're getting popular so I can't be the only one.

    You're gonna like em. Top quality.
    Faster is better, even when it's not.

  23. #23
    mr. wonderful
    Reputation: dirtbag's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    879
    Good call big fella. I've had to double clutch my shifts from little to middle since I got the thing. I dropped the chain in the beginning, but not lately. I've never be stoked with the chainline and will take a look at mine tonight. And I think this will take me under 40lbs to boot

    and TS. . . directions?! read?!! are you kidding me?!!!

  24. #24
    It's carbon dontcha know.
    Reputation: 6thElement's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    3,887
    That spacer isn't even mentioned in the instructions IIRC.

  25. #25
    Huh?
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    826
    Never mind your crank troubles how come you weren't at Diablo? I saw only 1 other Highline there.

  26. #26
    It's carbon dontcha know.
    Reputation: 6thElement's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    3,887
    Was it me?

    Another Highline owner came over to me in the carpark at the end of the day to talk bike.

  27. #27
    Huh?
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    826
    Must've been. I didn't think to ask if you're on here.

    Mark

  28. #28
    mtbr member
    Reputation: krispy@go-ride.com's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    1,001
    We've sold a ton of those cranks, they've all had the single row bearings so far. Good to hear you can use the double row ones though!!

    The wierd thing with 83 is,

    The BB shell got 10 mm wider,(5 per side) the chainline got 6mm wider (50 vs 56) which is good for granny bolt/ ISCG bolt clearance by 1 extra mm. The frame got 15mm wider (7.5 per side) but many 83 cranks seem to have way more than 1 extra mm of bolt clearance giving a poor chainline. I've been removing any spacers on the drive side of most 2 ring bikes i've worked on to improve things. If the bike was ISCG 05 the a E13 DRS is a good option since it is not held by the BB at all and the cranks can therefore be setup closer to the frame.

    Krispy
    Santa Cruz Bronson 2 27.5/Rockshox Pike/Sram XX1
    Salsa Mukluk/Rockshox Bluto/Sram X1

  29. #29
    Lay off the Levers
    Reputation: Bikezilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    10,132
    Quote Originally Posted by aixelsyd
    Never mind your crank troubles how come you weren't at Diablo? I saw only 1 other Highline there.
    Btwn the poor weather and sick wife it just wasn't working out. I'm thinking about Diablo this Sat but I hear the weather is going to suck. 2 weeks of a season pass already wasted! !
    Faster is better, even when it's not.

  30. #30
    on a routine expedition
    Reputation: Marshall Willanholly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,568
    Good find, Zilla. I've been having trouble getting the proper chainline with my Gravity Lights. I'm running a single ring up front, but it seemed I had to space my chainguide out much further than I wanted to. I'm going to see about removing that spacer tonight.


  31. #31
    TLL
    TLL is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation: TLL's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    3,061
    Zilla, thanks for posting this up. I have a set of these on order from Larry . . . not sure if the 68/73's have the same spacer, but you can be quite sure I'll be checking before the install.
    Hadley rear hub service here and here.

  32. #32
    Huh?
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    826
    Quote Originally Posted by Bikezilla
    Btwn the poor weather and sick wife it just wasn't working out. I'm thinking about Diablo this Sat but I hear the weather is going to suck. 2 weeks of a season pass already wasted! !

    That blows. It was pretty slick Sat. Morning. I hope to get back down there again later this month. I'll post up if I do.

  33. #33
    mr. wonderful
    Reputation: dirtbag's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    879
    BINGO! We have a winner here
    I rode my new and improved HL today with the spacer removed and it shifts like a champ

  34. #34
    Lay off the Levers
    Reputation: Bikezilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    10,132

    No Better

    I've been running the GLs without the spindle spacer and nohing's changed. it still looks quite offset when running the largest 2 cogs and the middle chainring. The chain still gets pulled off the middle ring onto the granny when running this combo.

    I can't seem to get the fDER close enough to the middle ring to prevent it from dropping off, yet it is far enough over that if I run the 3rd, 4th or smaller cogs in the granny it will rub the der.

    I tried cc's SRAM fder but the clamp and pivot components are very large an it strikes the swing link even with the der set unusually low.

    Anyone have good advice on how to measure the chainline? I will remove the bb-mounted E13 DRS (2mm thick) and use a ISCG mounted stinger, and no BB spacers. I hope that will bring it inboard enough to work.

    As it stands I have to double-shift to get the chain up on the middle ring, then drop it back down to #2.

    Perhaps I'm doing something wrong in the setup.
    Faster is better, even when it's not.

  35. #35
    It's carbon dontcha know.
    Reputation: 6thElement's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    3,887
    I could maybe meet at Sprain on Saturday afternoon for a comparison?

  36. #36
    Lay off the Levers
    Reputation: Bikezilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    10,132
    Much obliged 6E

    I don't suppose the morning would be possible?
    Also, I'l be going to Diablo Sunday. How about you?
    Faster is better, even when it's not.

  37. #37
    It's carbon dontcha know.
    Reputation: 6thElement's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    3,887
    Morning is probably trail maintenance at Highbridge for the pay dirt points in the H2H race series, Sunday is an H2H race at Lewis Morris. So no Diablo for me this weekend

  38. #38
    Lay off the Levers
    Reputation: Bikezilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    10,132
    Got the green light for Saturday afternoon. PM me when you want to meet. I'll probably bring half my workshop I need to make this thing right.

    GOOD LUCK WITH THE RACE!
    Faster is better, even when it's not.

  39. #39
    JMH
    JMH is offline
    Sugary Exoskeleton
    Reputation: JMH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    4,663
    BZ-

    I was just looking at your pics again... did you lower the front derailleur to make it run closer to the chainguide? Common mistake, don't do it.

    Even if you are running a bashguard instead of an outer ring, you still have to run the derailleur at the same height as if the ring were there or it will not shift correctly. Check out all the crazy shaping on the derailleur and it will make sense why it is position-sensitive.

    The lower edge of the outside of the derailleur cage should be 95mm from the BB spindle center. At this height the chain may drag on the tail end of the cage in the stand when you are in small/small, or on the inside of the cage in your big/big combo but when the bike is sagged it should be perfect. It's difficult to tell from the angle but yours looks at least 20 or 30mm too low, which would certainly cause problems.

    If your derailleur IS at the correct height, disregard.

    JMH
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by JMH; 05-30-2008 at 09:05 AM.

  40. #40
    Lay off the Levers
    Reputation: Bikezilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    10,132
    Tnx JMH.

    My XT der is as high as it can be set without striking the swing-link. The SRAM sat much lower.
    Faster is better, even when it's not.

  41. #41
    JMH
    JMH is offline
    Sugary Exoskeleton
    Reputation: JMH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    4,663
    Quote Originally Posted by Bikezilla
    Tnx JMH.

    My XT der is as high as it can be set without striking the swing-link. The SRAM sat much lower.
    If it isn't about 93-95mm, you will need to try another derailleur to solve your woes... I might have a low-clamp LX or X7 you could try.

  42. #42
    Lay off the Levers
    Reputation: Bikezilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    10,132
    Quote Originally Posted by JMH
    The lower edge of the outside of the derailleur cage should be 95mm from the BB spindle center.
    I will check that out, thanks. Which part of the lower edge of the cage are you refering to? I'm not clear on where to measure to.
    Faster is better, even when it's not.

  43. #43
    Lay off the Levers
    Reputation: Bikezilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    10,132
    I measured the actual chainline (center of ST to tip of middle ring) and it looks dead on 55mm give or take an eyeslice.

    I'm pretty sure I won't be able to get my current der to true height because of it's high bracket.

    It looks like I'll need a low mount top pull, bottom swing Fder... anyone know who makes one? Which model exactly?

    Thanks for the offer JMH I've already borrowed cc's der and a set of stems from Fo' I think it's time I pony up and buy something.
    Faster is better, even when it's not.

  44. #44
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    2,574

    big ring

    Hey Zilla

    Just pull the 2 ring crank and pop a crank on with a 'big' ring. 42-44, set the derailer height and put the GL back on. It don't matter if it is the right chainline for the bike, just get the height right. If that don't work take the bash ring off and install a big ring on the GL to do the same.

    Chainline sounds right on. I am guessing that the cog set is in the normalish next to dropout position, nothing weird there right?

    I have not heard of this many issues with a HL front mech in the past. Mainly riders having issues with the clamp bolt, but this has been a big ordeal.

    DT

  45. #45
    It's carbon dontcha know.
    Reputation: 6thElement's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    3,887
    Make sure you've got the tape measure in your toolbox tomorrow so you can measure the chainline, height etc on mine in comparison. I've not really spent much time in the big front, bigger rear cogs as I've only ridden downhill at Diablo on mine. So a jaunt around Sprain should show if I've got the same problem.

    edit: Although the forcast calls for thunderstorms for most of tomorrow, so rain might stop play
    Last edited by 6thElement; 05-30-2008 at 08:02 PM.

  46. #46
    Lay off the Levers
    Reputation: Bikezilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    10,132

    No one ever said Lizards were smart

    Seeing how the chainline numbers were dead on, there must be some user error going on here.

    I had removed my Fder to measure the chainline, so I also took the opportunity to pull my cranks, and used a spare triple ring crankset to reinstall the Fder. Turns out I do have clearance under the swing link to raise it up to proper triple height and then some.



    Maybe +10mm. So I'll set it down to 2-3mm above the tallest tooth, redial it so the inside face is as close as possible to the chain when it's in the middle ring and give it a test ride tomorrow.

    I'm not sure about if the cogset is sitting close enough to the dropout but here's what it looks like:




    As before I used a drilled paint paint stick to test the der clearance at abs full travel in both ring settings.
    I also installed a new ISCG Stinger and benched the long abused BB mounted DRS which is not part of the problem but I wanted the flexibility to run the DS BB without a spacer, but for now I'll keep a 2.5mm one there to avoid the ISCG bolts.

    Thanks for the help. With so many changes during the initial build I must have lost my way, so I'll start fresh again on the der. If it still does not work I'll try a new der.

    BTW I ordered wider bars.
    Faster is better, even when it's not.

  47. #47
    mtbr member
    Reputation: jncarpenter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    6,795
    Quote Originally Posted by Bikezilla
    BTW I ordered wider bars.
    DUH!


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •