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  1. #1
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    GravityDropper or Coil shock? What would you choose?

    Hey all,
    I'm thinking of doing an upgrade for my RFX. The main candidates are either a nice coil rear shock or a gravity dropper. No chance I'll get the OK from wife to do both now, so I have to decide.

    Options are:
    - Gravity dropper
    - Avalanche Chubbie 7.875x2.25
    - Avalanche Chubbie 7.5x2.25 (FM style)
    - Cane Creek CCDB

    Ride is AM, which for me means doing both aerobic rides with lots of climbing and enjoying it, combined with technical singletrack in rocky loose terrain, usually slow and vertical, not flying downhill, and enjoying it aw well. No huge stuff. So far I seem to enjoy drops up to around 3' to flat and a little more to tranny, but not much more.
    Currently riding an RP23 in the rear and a Talas36 up front, and actually really enjoying both (but I don;t know what I am missing ).
    The aim is simply to make the ride even more fun for the current riding envelope.

    ...What would you do if you were me?... (Thanks for any thoughts!!)
    Hear no evil. See no evil. Speak no evil. (Do it !?!)

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by tald
    (Thanks for any thoughts!!)
    Another option: PUSH the RP23 and get the Gravitydropper.

    That would probably cost less than purchasing either an Avy or CCDB. I bet the RP23 would feel like a whole new shock, too. That's what I would do if I were you.

  3. #3
    PSI
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCinSC
    Another option: PUSH the RP23 and get the Gravitydropper.

    That would probably cost less than purchasing either an Avy or CCDB. I bet the RP23 would feel like a whole new shock, too. That's what I would do if I were you.
    or a dhx coil and gd
    Last edited by PSI; 07-05-2008 at 01:04 AM.

  4. #4
    trail fairy
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    Get the coil ya already got the RP23 get the GD later! which coil out of that lot you go I leave to you all look good
    Just riding a muddy trail. . ..

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  5. #5
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    Dropper hands down. Sort of a revolutionary vs evolutionary change. It increased the fun factor for me hugely.
    Quote Originally Posted by buddhak
    And I thought I had a bike obsession. You are at once tragic and awesome.

  6. #6
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    coil

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enel
    Dropper hands down. Sort of a revolutionary vs evolutionary change. It increased the fun factor for me hugely.
    Werd x2. Get the dropper, no question.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  8. #8
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    I second the gettting your RP23 Push'd AND the GD

    I have the same front and rear suspension components as you and a GD. I find it hard to believe that I got along for years w/o the GD---to me, this is the best bet for your money. I also agree w/ the PUSH logic for your RP23. I sent mine in about 4 months ago and the Push'd RP23 is indeed the heat. You can get the post and the Push treatment for half of what a CCDB costs!!

  9. #9
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    If you are willing to spend as much as a CCDB you should probably consider the black mamba post as obviously price is not an object

  10. #10
    trail fairy
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    Blackl mamba

    Dude oxymoron coming from the Knolly forum re CCDB


    No dis but WTF, he did add Avy in there!

    Course Ti spring is a must
    Just riding a muddy trail. . ..

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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by tald
    Hey all,
    I'm thinking of doing an upgrade for my RFX. The main candidates are either a nice coil rear shock or a gravity dropper. No chance I'll get the OK from wife to do both now, so I have to decide.

    Options are:
    - Gravity dropper
    - Avalanche Chubbie 7.875x2.25
    - Avalanche Chubbie 7.5x2.25 (FM style)
    - Cane Creek CCDB

    Ride is AM, which for me means doing both aerobic rides with lots of climbing and enjoying it, combined with technical singletrack in rocky loose terrain, usually slow and vertical, not flying downhill, and enjoying it aw well. No huge stuff. So far I seem to enjoy drops up to around 3' to flat and a little more to tranny, but not much more.
    Currently riding an RP23 in the rear and a Talas36 up front, and actually really enjoying both (but I don;t know what I am missing ).
    The aim is simply to make the ride even more fun for the current riding envelope.

    ...What would you do if you were me?... (Thanks for any thoughts!!)
    Dropper now ,avy later.

  12. #12
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    yep. get the post. for the level yer ridin at now, itll be much more useful and fun to have. just the jollys yer lookin for. once ya start to push that envelope, theres gonna be a new shock of the month anyway. if ya can swing it, the push job would be nice too and both will still come way under the cost of a bling shock and leave some beer money too. you win, the wife wins, the liquer store guy keeps ya on his krismiss card list.... what could be better?
    No, I'm NOT back!

  13. #13
    PSI
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    Quote Originally Posted by cactuscorn
    yep. get the post. for the level yer ridin at now, itll be much more useful and fun to have. just the jollys yer lookin for. once ya start to push that envelope, theres gonna be a new shock of the month anyway. if ya can swing it, the push job would be nice too and both will still come way under the cost of a bling shock and leave some beer money too. you win, the wife wins, the liquer store guy keeps ya on his krismiss card list.... what could be better?
    zen

  14. #14
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    Heard you all loud and clear. Easier to convince the Mrs as well. THANKS!!!
    Hear no evil. See no evil. Speak no evil. (Do it !?!)

  15. #15
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    I'd get the GD, and look at a Van R

    The boys at Push really like the Van R.

    Purchasing one and having it Pushed is cheaper than buying a DHX. I found a nearly new one on Ebay for $90.

    I know I'm loving mine
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  16. #16
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    I agree with S-Works.

    I have a DHX-c and GD. I know Push would set up the Van-R the right way for you. I just swapped out the RP23 for the DHX-c and now I want to send it in to Push. I had the RP23 Pushed, it was great. However, if you like coil shocks, and I do, then even a Pushed RP23 won't cut it.

    The GD is a no-brainer. It doesn't have to be GD, AMP makes a good product too. I have the turbo with 1" & 4" drops. I could give up the coil shock if I had to, but the GD, not a chance!
    Beware the lollipop of mediocrity...lick it once and you will suck forever.

  17. #17
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    Ah Im off the cruches but still on the meds, oh wait what are we talking about again, oh my bad wrong thread I thought we were discussing crutches, carry on carry on
    Just riding a muddy trail. . ..

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  18. #18
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    I would, and did choose an avalanche shock instead of a gravity-crutch.

    Thing is, I usually end up waiting at the top of hills for the gravity-dropper riders. What's the point if I'm waiting up there? It takes me 3 seconds to set my seatpost with the QR, and it costs 0.00000000000000001% of the gravity dropper. Last weekend we had no less than 4 6 packs on a ride, 3 gravity-equipped I believe, as well as at least one other bike with a gravity-crutch, but I don't see the point. We climbed for a while, got to the top of a big mountain, everyone was a little dusted, set our seat heights, and then took off down the mountain. I'm not into adjusting my bike for every 50 foot descent, and riding my 6-pack on the kind of ride that would make a gravity-dropper make sense is a dumb idea IMO, because it means I'm constantly going short ups and downs. Guess what, it's a pain in the ass to ride a 36lb bike constantly up and down like an XC bike, and I don't want it to be like an XC bike. The gravity dropper might help, but it's still bringing a bazooka to a knife-fight, and it's a pain to lug that thing around everywhere. I do just fine on my pack, but I'd rather ride big rides that have serious downhills and uphills, not 30 second glory-fests followed by a climb. That may be the way some of the riding is in certain parts of the country, but not here and it's not the stuff that I like to ride. I don't need a gravity-dropper to do a 2hr climb, it doesn't help. I think a bike like 6 pack or similer bike built up to truely handle everything is not going to be a super-light bike, it's not going to be a great bike for a lot of small-up and small-down riding. Get a 5-spot or one of those super-light build RFXs, there it may have some purpose.

    In any case, even riding my 6-pack everywhere, I usually end up waiting for people with gravity-crutches (and they're usually tired at the top). I guess I could be an a$$ and lower my seat before they get there and then TAKE OFF when they arrive (because with a gravity dropper they don't have to stop!). If I'm waiting for gravity-crutchers, I can adjust my QR easily while I wait. I'm not saying that the gravity-crutch adds an unreasonable amount of weight, just that people may be bringing way too big of a bike for a ride and if they gotta rest for a few min at the top of a crazy climb, it doesn't make sense.

    The avalanche on the other hand...it's got balls.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    I would, and did choose an avalanche shock instead of a gravity-crutch.

    Thing is, I usually end up waiting at the top of hills for the gravity-dropper riders. What's the point if I'm waiting up there? It takes me 3 seconds to set my seatpost with the QR, and it costs 0.00000000000000001% of the gravity dropper. Last weekend we had no less than 4 6 packs on a ride, 3 gravity-equipped I believe, as well as at least one other bike with a gravity-crutch, but I don't see the point. We climbed for a while, got to the top of a big mountain, everyone was a little dusted, set our seat heights, and then took off down the mountain. I'm not into adjusting my bike for every 50 foot descent, and riding my 6-pack on the kind of ride that would make a gravity-dropper make sense is a dumb idea IMO, because it means I'm constantly going short ups and downs. Guess what, it's a pain in the ass to ride a 36lb bike constantly up and down like an XC bike, and I don't want it to be like an XC bike. The gravity dropper might help, but it's still bringing a bazooka to a knife-fight, and it's a pain to lug that thing around everywhere. I do just fine on my pack, but I'd rather ride big rides that have serious downhills and uphills, not 30 second glory-fests followed by a climb. That may be the way some of the riding is in certain parts of the country, but not here and it's not the stuff that I like to ride. I don't need a gravity-dropper to do a 2hr climb, it doesn't help. I think a bike like 6 pack or similer bike built up to truely handle everything is not going to be a super-light bike, it's not going to be a great bike for a lot of small-up and small-down riding. Get a 5-spot or one of those super-light build RFXs, there it may have some purpose.

    In any case, even riding my 6-pack everywhere, I usually end up waiting for people with gravity-crutches (and they're usually tired at the top). I guess I could be an a$$ and lower my seat before they get there and then TAKE OFF when they arrive (because with a gravity dropper they don't have to stop!). If I'm waiting for gravity-crutchers, I can adjust my QR easily while I wait. I'm not saying that the gravity-crutch adds an unreasonable amount of weight, just that people may be bringing way too big of a bike for a ride and if they gotta rest for a few min at the top of a crazy climb, it doesn't make sense.

    The avalanche on the other hand...it's got balls.
    Now THAT'S the kind of idle chest thumping that makes MTBR so fun to read.

    Thanks.

  20. #20
    trail fairy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    The avalanche on the other hand...it's got balls.
    A chubbie with balls beats a crutch..
    Just riding a muddy trail. . ..

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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    ...rant...
    First off, you usually ride alone, so I don't know who you are waiting for.

    Secondly, I ride the same terrain as you and find the GD indespensable. What does that mean? Nothing. I just like it, and you don't.

    It is just way more fun for me to climb, drop quickly to descend, drop, or hit a little techy section.

    Example: This little move is preceeded by a steep, loose switchback climb, and followed by another climb in seconds. You hit all three within one minute of starting the first climb. Up, Drop, Up. No stopping.

    <object height="603" width="800">


    <embed src="http://www.vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=1249453&server=www.vimeo.com &show_title=0&show_byline=0&show_portrait=0&color= ff9933&fullscreen=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" height="603" width="800"></object>
    Triple Challenge 3 from Enel on Vimeo.

    It dramatically increased the fun of my rides. Then again, I hate to stop for anything. and also like riding the short ups and downs you seem to despise so much.

    Finally, you haven't even to the best of my knowledge even tried one of these neato devices. I'll loan you a bike any time.
    Last edited by Enel; 07-07-2008 at 10:51 PM.

  22. #22
    trail fairy
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    I only see 3 pics dancing whats up
    Just riding a muddy trail. . ..

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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by trailadvent
    I only see 3 pics dancing whats up
    Fixed link.

  24. #24
    trail fairy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enel
    Fixed link.
    chur.. nice color

    Flippinheck ya got ice cream sticks in yer spokes, makes my Hadleys silent, what bike is that?
    Just riding a muddy trail. . ..

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  25. #25
    Elitest thrill junkie
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enel
    First off, you usually ride alone
    Not when I don't ride alone.

    If I'm in a decent size group, usually a few have gravity droppers, but usually we have to wait at the top of the climbs anyway. Just not a fan of trying to optimize the bike for every 50 foot descent, one of my problems with the bionicon stuff, I just want to ride a nice uphill or downhill. If I had a bunch of different bikes then I might go with a lightish one with a GD, but as I said, if you're riding a 36lb bike on stuff it's going to be a pain in the butt to do all sorts of little short uphills and downhills, where a GD would shine, so I see it as pointless for that kind of a bike. Maybe if I had the RP3/Talas combo and it was much lighter, but I don't use those kind of shocks/forks. Not to be too arrogent, but when you say you ride the "same" terrain as me, I don't exactly think that's true. I ride the same trails as you for sure, but the directions and exact choices I make are different, as well as the rides I do in other places (flag, globe, etc). Remember that I have a hard-on for blasting down trail 40 due to it being a fairly un-obstructed downhill ride with some tech features, flow and general fun stuff with little downside (in my opinion).

    Believe me that I see the point of it, but I just think there are far better things to spend money on that will improve the performance of the bike to a point, and that the GD is of more value in situations other than on a 6-pack/rfx type bike. I definitely rode with plenty of GDs this last weekend, yet I can't see any point of the ride where it helped.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  26. #26
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    My vote is for a Gravity Dropper. I think the current RFX works great with a RP23 and of course getting it pushed is also an option. However, make sure the GD will work for you and your bike. What do I mean by this? I have shorter legs, but ride medium sized frames. On some bikes the seat tube is long enough that even with the GD all the way down in the seat tube I still can't get the seat as low as I would like.
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  27. #27
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    I gotta put a new plug in for the Avalanche. I upped the low speed compression a little more today, and my god it's amazing what simply dissapears under the bike. Simply amazing to have something that works so well. The GD ain't a bad idea either, but I can't imagine that a pushed RP3 comes anything close to this avy.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  28. #28
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    I've had both on my RFX...both transformed the ride and gave me one hellova big arsed smile.

    If you do long grinding climbs pause then ride cross mtn or decend, Get the Avy. Consider gettting a custom length: 7.75x2.25 and run it with a Spot Seatstay and you'll keep your orig geometry plus get nearly 7" of travel. Freakin' awesome ride!

    The Avy was such a major boost in just about every kind of riding. Super supple, well controlled compression (bob-control) excellent transition to square edge and highspeed hits. It was hard to imagine how much better a ride it would give till I had one.

    OTOH if you ride trails like mine where the climbs and drops alternate every 5 minuets and features abound along the way, a GD'er is indispensable for a play trailbike. Tough choice.

    I'd lean towards the Avy though.
    Faster is better, even when it's not.

  29. #29
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    I'd get the GD. I've had it on my bike for nearly a year now.

    Arriving to the top of the hill and adjusting the seat height isn't the only use case here.
    It's having a singletrack that has ups and downs from start to finish, and instead of compromising by either leaving the seat up/down/somewhere in between, or stopping every few yards to adjust the seat height, you're actually changing its height on the fly. That to me is a key advantage.
    Another thing is riding in unfamiliar terrain (like desert rides) - You really don't know what to expect, and having the GD enables me to respond to the changing terrain with minimal risk or distraction.

    It's like Enel said - revolutionary vs evolutionary...

  30. #30
    FM
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    I'd get the cavity-groper first

    The Avy is amazing, it is a night-and-day improvement over other coil shocks I've tried. Small bump compliance is night-and day better, now that there is *no* stiction. Aside from the quality of the suspension, the optional changes in geometry are a big improvement IMHO. The whole package makes the RFX feel line a 8lb highline frame on the downhills. I recently went up #50 in spring weight, I think I was a bit undersprung before- it now climbs better than ever, no longer too slack on the uphills, still getting full travel on drops.

    Gravity dropper, the haterz talk all day about how it won't make you faster so you might as well stop to adjust your seat height along with the rest of humanity. Totally missing the point! For me, it's about always having the right seat height, regardless of riding solo or with a group. I change my seat height about as often as I shift in front now, in fact it's a package deal; granny gear + seat up, or, middle ring & seat down. One thing I noticed this year, I simply have more fun DH'ing with flat pedals, but sometimes riding flat/uphill tech stuff with flats with full seat height felt weird. Not an issue with the teabaggitybagger, the seat's never there when I don't want it to be. So I guess you could say I traded on crutch for another, who cares, the bike is feeling great everywhere now.




  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM
    So I guess you could say I traded on crutch for another, who cares, the bike is feeling great everywhere now.



    So, when are you selling the Highline?
    Extreme stationary biker.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by trailadvent
    A chubbie with balls beats a crutch..
    Everytime.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by geolover
    So, when are you selling the Highline?
    You know it had to go one of two ways, especially after a week in whistler.

    I think this pretty much explains it.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM
    You know it had to go one of two ways, especially after a week in whistler.

    I think this pretty much explains it.
    You son-of-a.....wait, no cheeky Marz bag?

    I guess it's time for some dual crown action?
    Extreme stationary biker.

  35. #35
    FM
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    Quote Originally Posted by geolover
    You son-of-a.....wait, no cheeky Marz bag?

    I guess it's time for some dual crown action?
    Actually I'm making my own rigid fork with a2c adjustment. Two inverted gravity droppers for fork-legs, held in place by some old boxxer crowns, with internals by Avy. This way I can run 3 levers on my handlebars! I'm doing it just for the homerz.


  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM
    You know it had to go one of two ways, especially after a week in whistler.

    I think this pretty much explains it.
    Hey FM, is the steer tube right at 7.5 inches? It wouldn't be a little longer by chance?
    ****

  37. #37
    FM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade
    Hey FM, is the steer tube right at 7.5 inches? It wouldn't be a little longer by chance?
    maybe 2mm. Blame it on the low stack height of the FSA orbit headset I used to run.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM
    maybe 2mm. Blame it on the low stack height of the FSA orbit headset I used to run.
    Thanks FM. Afraid I need 7.75 minimum, preferably 8 inches plus.
    If anyone has any model 66, 2006 to 2007 that they want to sell, P.M. me. I have a project that needs a chassis.
    ****

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade
    Hey FM, is the steer tube right at 7.5 inches? It wouldn't be a little longer by chance?
    Rene

    I've got a 2006 rc2x with a longer steer tube (probably 8.25") that I've been thinking of selling...did I just say that .
    Extreme stationary biker.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by geolover
    Rene

    I've got a 2006 rc2x with a longer steer tube (probably 8.25") that I've been thinking of selling...did I just say that .
    Ooooooooo. Geo, let me know what price you might be thinking of.
    ****

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by mouse jockey
    Everytime.
    ..
    Just riding a muddy trail. . ..

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  42. #42
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    Guys, thanks for all the info!! So my options have narrowed to a short FM-style Chubbie and a Gravity-Dropper.
    I need to pull the trigger real soon, so here is another question:
    1. FM, I understand you have no problems with the short Chubbie - that the tire clearance is good and no metal contacts another at full travel.
    But that's on a 08 RFX medium frame. Any idea if the short 7.75" chubbie works as well with a Large 08 RFX?
    2. Any recommendations/suggestions if I go for the short Chubbie?
    3. How do I decide on the spring rate?

    Cheers!!
    Hear no evil. See no evil. Speak no evil. (Do it !?!)

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