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  1. #1
    karmacoma
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    explain tnt and HL

    ok, before u guys start to flame me here, i just want to know the physical diference between the new tnt and the hl... as in can someone post a pic of each and show me which one is which and how are they designed diferent?
    thanx

    I did try to search this up but got no luck
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  2. #2
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    I hate to sound harsh, but what exactly did you search for?

    I can imagine it now...

    triphop searches for "the obliquity of the ecliptic as per the HL versus TNT debate"

    "Damn, why didn't my search return any results!?1?!?"

    Seriously man, all you have to do is search for "HL and TNT" and you will get a whole slew of results showing images, pie charts, huge graphs, whatever you want. You have to look through the results though, don't just skim through the first page of search results and say "Nope, nothing here so there must be nothing on the forum about it."

    It's all about pivot location man. Seatstay vs. chainstay.

  3. #3
    No, that's not phonetic
    Reputation: tscheezy's Avatar
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    The diff is where the rear pivot is placed: above the rear axle on the TNT bike and below and in front of the axle on the HL...

    HL:



    TNT:



    And before you ask, "so, what difference does it make??" I will just go ahead and tell you. NONE.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  4. #4
    Natl. Champ DH Poser/Hack
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    or better yet:
    Attached Images Attached Images
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  5. #5
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    Whats up with this?

    Check out the links in this thread for all the info you could ever want on this subject.


    This thread offers an especially thorough discussion of the subject.

    Whats up with this?

    Also, the sticky thread at the top of the forum has lots of good stuff.
    Last edited by Twister; 03-27-2006 at 05:54 PM.

  6. #6
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    Try the "Advanced Search" feature near the top of the screen near the large "Search" line.
    Put TNT in the Key Word window, and set it for search titles only. Set the forum to search to "Turner" And let it rip. You'll get the whole history and nearly every discussion.

    It probably won't tell you anything more than the reviews can.
    Here's a discussion that just went by earlier: thread
    Faster is better, even when it's not.

  7. #7
    ... I guess you won't be
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    Horst Link


    TNT!



    NUff Said!

  8. #8
    Bunny Hugger
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    Cool-blue Rhythm

    HL -- You want this.

    TNT -- This wouldn't exist (on Turners) if Dave Turner didn't have to pay both Specialized for the HL patent and Tony Ellsworth for the ICT patent.

    No difference? You decide.
    Hug the Bunny

  9. #9
    karmacoma
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    thanx tscheezy thats exactly what i needed
    i read every review on them, all sorts of discussion and what not, but i saw no pics like the ones i asked for... sorry if i pissed u off but i dont need smartass replies. english is not my native language and perhaps i needed some apples and $h°t ok?
    again thanx... sorry for the rest of u guys and lets just call it quits here
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  10. #10
    Natl. Champ DH Poser/Hack
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    sorry man. i didnt mean to get under yer skin as i thought humor was a universal language. lighten up just a bit and join in on the fun. i do gotta say i thought it was funny as hell. apples and apples.... gawd damn im a riot!
    No, I'm NOT back!

  11. #11
    No, that's not phonetic
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    No worries. If you have any other questions, feel free to ask.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by crashdang
    HL -- You want this.

    TNT -- This wouldn't exist (on Turners) if Dave Turner didn't have to pay both Specialized for the HL patent and Tony Ellsworth for the ICT patent.

    No difference? You decide.
    Homers, this round's on me...
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  13. #13
    ... I guess you won't be
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    Hey Mano! I thought my post was pretty clever!

    caliente + Horst Link

    muy caliente + TNT!

    tu' comprehendo?

  14. #14
    karmacoma
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    Quote Originally Posted by cactuscorn
    sorry man. i didnt mean to get under yer skin as i thought humor was a universal language. lighten up just a bit and join in on the fun. i do gotta say i thought it was funny as hell. apples and apples.... gawd damn im a riot!
    dont sweat it man... ill just say it was ONE reply that got to my nerves... ill let u figure out wich it was... the apples where a nice touch... where did the oranges go though??
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  15. #15
    Bunny Hugger
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCinSC
    Homers, this round's on me...
    Umm, he asked. I answered. If it's not PC enough for you, oh well. My opinion may not be new, like all the faux bar converts'; but it's still my opinion.
    Hug the Bunny

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by crashdang
    Umm, he asked. I answered. If it's not PC enough for you, oh well. My opinion may not be new, like all the faux bar converts'; but it's still my opinion.
    My post was intended to be a light-hearted response to yours, but since you brought it up:

    The OP asked -
    About the physical difference between TNT and HL
    Pics of each
    How they are designed differently

    Did I miss where you answered these questions in your original post?

  17. #17
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    I stand corrected. My response was my giving my opinion after the other members responded. Did I need to show the differences in pics and text after TS posted his pics. That pretty much showed the difference. I was chiming in with the pro-HL response after the others stated that there is no difference between the two.
    Hug the Bunny

  18. #18
    No, that's not phonetic
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    Quote Originally Posted by crashdang
    I was chiming in with the pro-HL response after the others stated that there is no difference between the two.
    I would be curious to hear a synopsis of your time on a TNT Turner vs a Horst Turner. I am curious as to what your experience is and why it is different from what a lot of us have seen/felt, and what the circumstances of the test were.

    Please 'splain.
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  19. #19
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    Edit: nevermind Ts has it covered.

    Triphop, maybe CC's joke was lost in translation He left out the oranges as part of the joke: not apples and oranges but apples and apples.
    Last edited by Bikezilla; 03-27-2006 at 10:59 PM.
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  20. #20
    Natl. Champ DH Poser/Hack
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    someone understands my humor! thanx zilla.
    No, I'm NOT back!

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by tscheezy
    I would be curious to hear a synopsis of your time on a TNT Turner vs a Horst Turner. I am curious as to what your experience is and why it is different from what a lot of us have seen/felt, and what the circumstances of the test were.

    Please 'splain.
    TS, I just shot you a PM. Check it out if you want to.

    As for the OP getting all upset over some of the posts because they're insulting... Come on! Those pics were pretty darn funny, especially the hot wings from Joker. It's probably that the American humor was lost in the translation. I hope you get over your anger and enjoy them for the funny and witty posts that they are.
    Hug the Bunny

  22. #22
    "El Whatever"
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    BTW... Congrats on your new ride. You'll be more than happy when you get it built and ridden!!

    I pulled the trigger!

    The Mexican Homer Leg is growing!!
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  23. #23
    The Ancient One
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    Quote Originally Posted by tscheezy

    And before you ask, "so, what difference does it make??" I will just go ahead and tell you. NONE.
    Let's see. . . Tscheezy has also said that he prefers the TNT in some respects.

    He has observed that the HL extends in the rear under rear only braking but the TNT does not. When Davide long ago observed the same thing, Tscheezy ridiculed him.

    Tscheezy has also said that he can't tell any difference from the pivot placement of any design he has tried, with the exception of high forward single pivots.
    "Don't criticize what you can't understand."

  24. #24
    ... I guess you won't be
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    I guess they don't have Hot Wingz in Fraunce....

    then again, can you name any comedian that ever came from there? I still don't get Marcel Marceau.....

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by jokermtb
    I guess they don't have Hot Wingz in Fraunce....

    then again, can you name any comedian that ever came from there?
    Jerry Lewis?
    Last edited by Bikezilla; 03-28-2006 at 10:56 PM.
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  26. #26
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    Check out the newest Bike mag (probably not on the stands yet). There's a nice little Q&A from Turner about this.

  27. #27
    karmacoma
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    I guess im a humorless french garcon now LOL... again guys, sorry to cause such a stir i just wanted some pics thats all, and there was one post that annoyed me. most of them were harmless though... btw Im about to get a flux so ill be spending a bit more time down here, hope i didnt start off with a bad impression with u guys.

    ps. im getting muy caliente buffalo wings
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  28. #28
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    Don't worry about offending us clowns Trip.

    About the only way you can get off to a bad start around here is to show up as the Stoker on Dusty Buttlog's Brokeback Mountain-bike.
    Faster is better, even when it's not.

  29. #29
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    ya came out of it with a smile. alls cool pal. btw, yer gonna diiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii.... (inhale).........iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiig yer flux! may as well warn ya know that 1/2 the homer nation will try and talk ya into a 5 spot because 1/2 the homer nation owns one. dont fall prey to this pressure. unless of course ya need one.
    No, I'm NOT back!

  30. #30
    "El Whatever"
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    Quote Originally Posted by cactuscorn
    ya came out of it with a smile. alls cool pal. btw, yer gonna diiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii.... (inhale).........iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiig yer flux! may as well warn ya know that 1/2 the homer nation will try and talk ya into a 5 spot because 1/2 the homer nation owns one. dont fall prey to this pressure. unless of course ya need one.
    Aww.. come on, CC!! You know he NEEDS both bikes!!

    (Mexican Sith Lord Elmadaleno has both... HL Flux and TNT Spot)
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  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by cactuscorn
    may as well warn ya know that 1/2 the homer nation will try and talk ya into a 5 spot because 1/2 the homer nation owns one. dont fall prey to this pressure. unless of course ya need one.
    Remember, Turners are like potato chips. You can't have just one.

  32. #32
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    Trip,

    I apologize for my original post. It is just that this topic has been done to death time and time again, including pictures. Hence my response.

    I hope you enjoy the flux.

    - Chris

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2TurnersNotEnough
    Remember, Turners are like potato chips. You can't have just one.
    It is amazing how once you own a Turner, it's too hard to find viable alternatives for the same reason we bought one in the first place.

    I wonder if there are any Turner owners here that bought a bike from another brand and didn't like it for whatever reason.

  34. #34
    "El Whatever"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    It is amazing how once you own a Turner, it's too hard to find viable alternatives for the same reason we bought one in the first place.

    I wonder if there are any Turner owners here that bought a bike from another brand and didn't like it for whatever reason.
    I don't have Turner, but deep inside of me I didn't liked my Warp for a plethora of reasons.

    Or do you meant "another boutique brand"?
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  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    It is amazing how once you own a Turner, it's too hard to find viable alternatives for the same reason we bought one in the first place.

    I wonder if there are any Turner owners here that bought a bike from another brand and didn't like it for whatever reason.
    My experience as a Turner owner (flux) definately makes it hard when considering other bikes. When you start prioritizing in things like quality, refined ride, customer service, and those little details like real tire clearance, a lot of bikes drop way down the list even if they have some interesting ride qualities. As I move toward a bike with more travel, I do like some of the things that come with VPP, for example, but overall I will buy a bike based on the total package, and that's where it is really hard to beat a Turner.

  36. #36
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    you're right that the little things make a difference. Lots of careful attention to detail that we've probably taken for granted over the years are usually deal breakers, like the huge tire clearance, the sealed bushings, geometry, and chancing it with other company's customer service. The Turner fit feels really good, too. So chancing that is a real big deal and it's good that across the line they will feel the same or similar.

    It's kind of like DT's philosophy: if it works, why mess around and experiment?

  37. #37
    Shovel Ready
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    Cool-blue Rhythm

    I have never ridden a HL model but love my current TNT RFX. All this talk about DT having to give up some cash as the main reason for the switch got me thinking. For argument sake let's say DT did $ 1,000.000.00 in sales with each frame costing $ 2000.00. That's 500 frames a year. Now if DT had to hand over $ 5.00 a frame in royalties, the total would come to $ 2500.00 a year. Does anyone think DT would go through all this for an extra $ 2500.00 a year. Even at $ 25.00 a frame it's only 12,500.00 and that is easy to over come when you look at the big picture. Add a $ 1.00 to each frame, shirt and sticker pack. Bet we are getting close at that point.

    I think DT found he had as good of a design if not better. After dealing with the others said keep your deal I got one that works just fine and ran with it. So now we have TNT which many seem to like so far.

    Maybe I'm off on my numbers but if I'm not does the cash issue really sound logical?
    Currently at Mayo Clinic being tested for a kidney transplant. Donors welcome.

  38. #38
    No, that's not phonetic
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    I wonder if there are any Turner owners here that bought a bike from another brand and didn't like it for whatever reason.
    We may be just a wee bit full of ourselves to think like that. There are a lot of cool bikes on the market. If I lived in a place where I thought bearings would survive I would honestly have a more difficult time picking a bike.

    Different strokes... etc. Turtle1 just got a Nomad and put a 66SL on it, and swoons over that combo like he did about his 6-Pack before. I about fell over backwards when I read that since I thought the 36 Van was way too much fork on the Nomad. I would think that bike would go with a 66 like chalk would go with cheese, but it just shows what range of stuff people are into.
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  39. #39
    karmacoma
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    I dont think they will talk me into getting a 5-spot... i dont think 4" is too mucho a difference from 5" to justify the purchase... now an RFX on the other hand... ... NO WAIT... please dont talk me into buying another bike... ive got too little space, and not a big enough paycheck for another complete bike.
    (homer voice) mmm... RFX...

    no, seriously, I like to pedal and theres no shuttle rides where i live
    thanx guys... its all good u know
    downtepec & biketepetl riding monkeys - trademark, all rights reserved

  40. #40
    "El Whatever"
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    Quote Originally Posted by triphop
    I dont think they will talk me into getting a 5-spot... i dont think 4" is too mucho a difference from 5" to justify the purchase... now an RFX on the other hand... ... NO WAIT... please dont talk me into buying another bike... ive got too little space, and not a big enough paycheck for another complete bike.
    (homer voice) mmm... RFX...

    no, seriously, I like to pedal and theres no shuttle rides where i live
    thanx guys... its all good u know
    You are welcome to try my Blade... you'll see there's a reason why there are 5" bikes. Then you'll be lusting after a Motolite or a 5-Spot.

    Enjoy your Flux.... any concrete delivery time now?
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  41. #41
    Mexican e-rider
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    Quote Originally Posted by triphop
    i dont think 4" is too mucho a difference from 5" to justify the purchase...
    Triphop: You definately need a Spot! I agree there is a lot of overlap between the Flux and the Spot, but when it comes to the nasty stuff, the Spot just shines! (I can't even start to imagine what an RFX can do on rough terrain, it might get boring!)

    Cheers,
    "Hell, the Titus Moderator can't pass a cantina without gettin' the shakes"

  42. #42
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    trb2929 - A hunch tells me it wasn't the money that provoked the change to TNT, but the fact that TE is probably such an a$$ to deal with.

    edit - I'm sorry, that was rude. I'm sure that TE isn't a complete a$$ to deal with, just an extremely unprofessional pile of dung.
    Last edited by royta; 03-30-2006 at 08:10 AM.

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