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  1. #1
    Neg reppers r my biatches
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    Early pooftah ride report

    "Pooftah" in that riding has only been "dial it in" type of riding and real local due to time. I will wait to hit some technical stuff to really make judgment but I love it to far. About 45 miles of mostly XC riding, by Homer standards anyway.

    On the climbs it was not so much the weight I noticed but the angles and cockpit. But thats ok...that is exactly what I expected. Due to the long fork (even in shortest 140mm setting bike felt slack compared to what I am used to ride, including how I remember my X5 climbing, even when in 6" mode) and the short stem (50mm), climbing the REAL steep stuff was noticeable and the front wheel really wanted to wander on the FoShizzle. Part of it I am sure is because it is the first ride I have done on a FS bike in about a year so I am seriously relearning to ride. Having said that, I made a very steep climb yesterday which made me happy cause it was the first climbing challenge on the bike and I made it. Climbing normal stuff I cranked up the climb......no problem at all. Bike climbs awesome.

    The fork is friggin PSICK with a capital "P"!!!! I was blown away by the fork. The rear did not quite keep up with the front so I still have some adjusting I think. The one thing I hate about FS bikes are all the friggin adjustment....3 air chambers on the fork alone...compression this....bottom out that.....booster...blah blah blah. I have NO FRIGGIN idea if it is even near optimal setting but it felt great so i dont say changing to be honest.

    The brakes are amazing! On the first single track downhill I almost bailed badly cause the brakes are so friggin powerful....got used to it shortly thereafter but WOW! I love them!

    Not much to compare them to cause its been so long but the tires kicked some serious asss!!! Perhaps slow rolling but who cares.....I love them and will definitley recommend them. It seems that these tires are getting excellent reviews and are the tires to beat, along with the Schwalbe Big Bettys which weigh about the same but apparently roll faster.

    I love the cockpit! Yeah, as expected, I felt the short stem and it does not help on "Steep" climbs but on more normal climbs I was fine. On the downhills I would not trade it for anything. I friggin love it and will deal with the climbing disadvantage sicne i did not get the bike for climbing anyway. Playing around on the stairs at the local park it was so sweet to be able to flick the bike so easily....front end lifting is awesome with the setup so yeah, it stays for sure and I will just deal with the climbing disadvantage when it gets real steep....worth it to me since I need the handicap on the downs.

    I could not be happier.....I love the bike. The ONLY thing I would touch is to add a Blackspire Stinger chainguide, which is already ordered and my friend at my local shop will put it on cause Bikezilla's email to me scared the crap out of me and aint no way I am gonna attempt it in case something is slightly off.

    Will post more after I grow some balls and do something more technical....hopefully later this week in Santa Barbara

    cheers

  2. #2
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    Fo - I probably missed it somewhere on another thread, but what is your build spec? What fork are you running?

  3. #3
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    Dood, I didn't realize you had a 50mm stem on there. Perhaps a longer stem might be in your future? I only slap on my 50mm when I go to the resorts, but hey, whatever rocks your ride.
    Glad you like the fork; I looked at your set-up listed at the SL ATA set-up thread, and it seems that you picked a good start.
    Can't help you anymore than I allready have with setting up your rear shock.
    ****

  4. #4
    Neg reppers r my biatches
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinch
    Fo - I probably missed it somewhere on another thread, but what is your build spec? What fork are you running?
    frame - RFX ano black, large, w/ DHX 5.0 Coil <O</O
    fork - 2007 Marz 66 SL ATA <O</O
    headset - King <O</O
    stem - Deity <O</O
    handlebar - Deity <O</O
    shifters - Sram X7 twisters <O</O
    Brakes - 2006 Hope M6 front w/ 8” rotor, M4 rear with 180mm 8”. Steel braided lines <O</O
    seatpost - Thomson <O</O
    saddle - WTB Pure V SLT <O</O
    crankset - Shimano Hone 2-ring with bash <O</O
    Pedals - Shimano 646 <O</O
    Chain - Sram PC951 <O</O
    Cassette - Sram PG950 11-34 <O</O
    f.derailleur - Shimano Deore <O</O
    r.derailleur - Sram X7 <O</O
    wheelset - DT 5.1 rims / I9 6-pawl rear hub with 10mm thru axle running Hadley 10mm x 135mm thru axle / Front 20mm hub <O</O
    tires – Maxxis Advantage <O</O
    seatpost clamp – Hope

    Total Weight = 35.7 lbs<O</O

  5. #5
    Neg reppers r my biatches
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade
    Dood, I didn't realize you had a 50mm stem on there. Perhaps a longer stem might be in your future? I only slap on my 50mm when I go to the resorts, but hey, whatever rocks your ride.
    Glad you like the fork; I looked at your set-up listed at the SL ATA set-up thread, and it seems that you picked a good start.
    Can't help you anymore than I allready have with setting up your rear shock.
    yeah, 50mm. but honestly, I love it so much for technical that it is gonna stay. i am in pretty good shape can use all the handicap i can get for the downs. i will simply just get used to it...i really dig it.

    i really appreciate your help on the shock/fork.....very helpful for sure.

    For what it is worth:

    Fork
    60 PSI in PAR
    40 PSI in top left fork
    25 PSI in top right fork

    Shock
    120 PSI in boost
    1/3 up on bottom out
    I think about 5 clicks on propedal from full

    It felt great....not sure i will fuss with it. Coming from a hardtail perhaps I can tolerate more propedal than most and may even add more.

    Funniest thing was that on Sunday I rode with a group where one of the riders bought my old X5...he jumped on mine for a short stint and all he said was "butter". Granted I sold the X5 in racerboy 5" sub 28 lb mode and not in 6" mode....

  6. #6
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    Some more recommendations; on the fork:
    The more you favor putting air in the top of the left leg, the more plush/buttery/cushy the ride.
    If you want/need more boing, just add more psi to the right leg.

    On the shock: much of the inspiration that led Darren at Push to create the factory race system for the dhx was due to an interaction between the propedal function and the compression/rebound stroke of the shock. At descending speeds over rough terrain, the propedal, for lack of a better term, would pack up and interfere with the stroke of the shock. So what I'm trying to get at is, I would recommend that you back out the propedal knob completely for the descents.
    ****

  7. #7
    Bodhisattva
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade
    On the shock: much of the inspiration that led Darren at Push to create the factory race system for the dhx was due to an interaction between the propedal function and the compression/rebound stroke of the shock. At descending speeds over rough terrain, the propedal, for lack of a better term, would pack up and interfere with the stroke of the shock. So what I'm trying to get at is, I would recommend that you back out the propedal knob completely for the descents.
    What I recommend, since your "budget build" got blown out of the water, is to PUSH the DHX. No amount of fiddling will get a stock DHX where it should be on the RFX.

    I'm glad you're digging the ride. That's cool.

    50mm stem for XC?
    “Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep moving.”

    ― Albert Einstein

  8. #8
    Neg reppers r my biatches
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade
    Some more recommendations; on the fork:
    The more you favor putting air in the top of the left leg, the more plush/buttery/cushy the ride.
    If you want/need more boing, just add more psi to the right leg.

    On the shock: much of the inspiration that led Darren at Push to create the factory race system for the dhx was due to an interaction between the propedal function and the compression/rebound stroke of the shock. At descending speeds over rough terrain, the propedal, for lack of a better term, would pack up and interfere with the stroke of the shock. So what I'm trying to get at is, I would recommend that you back out the propedal knob completely for the descents.
    interesting.....is that because the negative air on the left is "automatic" such that the more air, the more negative effectively?

    also interesting (to me anyway) was that I only had 177mm of stanchion showing when in full travel. I assumed that I would have more like 185mm or more or does the fork use all of the stanchion showing so that it could be measurement error?

  9. #9
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    Fo:

    For what it's worth, I exchanged the 70mm stem on the Brujamontes for a 90mm this weekend, shoved the saddle a bit forward on the rails, and definitely improved the climbing performance. It's not at 29er level, but more than capable.

    I forced myself not to use the ETA and climbed everything at 150mm, so you could surely do it at 140 since the RFX also has a steeper STA.

    Check your email.
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    And I thought I had a bike obsession. You are at once tragic and awesome.

  10. #10
    Bodhisattva
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    Quote Originally Posted by FoShizzle
    interesting.....is that because the negative air on the left is "automatic" such that the more air, the more negative effectively?

    also interesting (to me anyway) was that I only had 177mm of stanchion showing when in full travel. I assumed that I would have more like 185mm or more or does the fork use all of the stanchion showing so that it could be measurement error?
    Uh oh.
    Looks like your 66 is stuck-down
    “Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep moving.”

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  11. #11
    Neg reppers r my biatches
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel
    What I recommend, since your "budget build" got blown out of the water, is to PUSH the DHX. No amount of fiddling will get a stock DHX where it should be on the RFX.

    I'm glad you're digging the ride. That's cool.

    50mm stem for XC?
    I thought about that....even thought the Cadillac version of PUSHing the DHX is gone, I assume what they still do is sweet.

    50mm for XC....heck yeah! i look badazz at the trailhead

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by FoShizzle
    interesting.....is that because the negative air on the left is "automatic" such that the more air, the more negative effectively?

    also interesting (to me anyway) was that I only had 177mm of stanchion showing when in full travel. I assumed that I would have more like 185mm or more or does the fork use all of the stanchion showing so that it could be measurement error?
    Correct: as you add air to the left leg, you are contributing to both the positive and negative spring in that leg. No matter how much air you add, it still has poofta soft negative influence to it. My understanding though is that the ratio of positive to negative is approximately the same, no matter how much psi you add.
    I'm currentlu using about 50 left leg, 25/30 psi right leg, 75 psi in the PAR.

    The fork will use all of the stanchion should you ever use full travel.
    And for what it's worth, per Squeaks suggestion, from push's website:

    PUSH Factory Tuning system for your DHX Coil is designed to get the maximum performance out of your shock while working in harmony with the FOX Boost Valve System. With our Factory Tuning System you maintain all of your current FOX Propedal adjustments, as well as all Boost Valve features, but with an increase in small bump sensitivity and big hit control from our Exclusive VxRII Piston kit custom tuned to your application. Add to that our Exclusive Power-Trac valve feature which increases traction under heavy pedaling loads and braking bumps and you have one of the most versatile rear shocks available.

    Factory Tuning System Adds:

    PUSH VxRII High Flow Piston
    Multi-Stage Compression and Rebound Valving tuned to application
    PUSH Factory Single Stage Piston Bolt with Power-Trac®
    PUSH Exclusive Factory Conical Bottoming Bumper System for increased bottoming control



    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Factory Rebuild $105 +s/h

    Factory Tuning System $180 +s/h
    ****

  13. #13
    Neg reppers r my biatches
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade
    Correct: as you add air to the left leg, you are contributing to both the positive and negative spring in that leg. No matter how much air you add, it still has poofta soft negative influence to it. My understanding though is that the ratio of positive to negative is approximately the same, no matter how much psi you add.
    I'm currentlu using about 50 left leg, 25/30 psi right leg, 75 psi in the PAR.

    The fork will use all of the stanchion should you ever use full travel.
    And for what it's worth, per Squeaks suggestion, from push's website:

    PUSH Factory Tuning system for your DHX Coil is designed to get the maximum performance out of your shock while working in harmony with the FOX Boost Valve System. With our Factory Tuning System you maintain all of your current FOX Propedal adjustments, as well as all Boost Valve features, but with an increase in small bump sensitivity and big hit control from our Exclusive VxRII Piston kit custom tuned to your application. Add to that our Exclusive Power-Trac valve feature which increases traction under heavy pedaling loads and braking bumps and you have one of the most versatile rear shocks available.

    Factory Tuning System Adds:

    PUSH VxRII High Flow Piston
    Multi-Stage Compression and Rebound Valving tuned to application
    PUSH Factory Single Stage Piston Bolt with Power-Trac®
    PUSH Exclusive Factory Conical Bottoming Bumper System for increased bottoming control



    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Factory Rebuild $105 +s/h

    Factory Tuning System $180 +s/h
    thanks.

    not sure I can do the PUSH upgrade. That would void my ability to call the bike a budget build

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by FoShizzle
    not sure I can do the PUSH upgrade. That would void my ability to call the bike a budget build

    I figure if you do the upgrade, you'll like your bike even more, and maybe keep it an additional week or two. Plus, it will add to the resale value once you do move it on.
    ****

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by FoShizzle
    thanks.

    not sure I can do the PUSH upgrade. That would void my ability to call the bike a budget build
    Fo, your bike is still gonna be a budget build after the PUSH upgrade with the non-XO, no GD parts on there. So Push away.

    Seriously Fo, the mods make the bike ride even better. Trust me on this, I've tried them all on my Pack and the Push'd DHX comes out ahead.
    "The best you've ridden is the best you know" - Paul Thede, Race Tech

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade

    I figure if you do the upgrade, you'll like your bike even more, and maybe keep it an additional week or two. Plus, it will add to the resale value once you do move it on.
    That ad should pop up in the classifieds any day now
    “Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep moving.”

    ― Albert Einstein

  17. #17
    trail fairy
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    Awesome poofta ride by the sounds Fo congrats

    I felt the same with my bar and stem combo for the first hour now its a keeper if I want to climb the spot comes out to play but Im over climbing I just want to PLAY so what if Im slow up hill its a means to an end and that is coming back down going big and carving corners plus manualing has never been so much fun I now know why its so easy for those dudes in dvds.

    You"ll also love it when ya get the chain guide as the cheesy one once said I don't know why more people don't run chain guides what a diff esspecially in the air minimal drag, no chain slap enjoy FO

    Ps GD will help ya get more outta ya bar & stem combo
    Just riding a muddy trail. . ..

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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by FoShizzle
    Will post more after I grow some balls and do something more technical....hopefully later this week in Santa Barbara

    cheers
    Tunnell!?!

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    Great write up Fo !! Please follow it up more pic's with the RFX in it's native environment (yes, you can be a poser with no action shots ).

    The natives are getting restless Fo.... you'd be betta off PUSH'n that shock .

    I don't think they want to hear another comment about the rear not keeping up to the front ... take their advice .

  20. #20
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    ...Fo, before you PUSH the beeeyotch, try backing off the boost psi a bit. I would start at around 90 psi...especially if you're not planning on doing much hammer-time xc on it...make sure you have a t least a turn or two of spring preload as well

    I would also concur that a 70mm at the LEAST would help things a bit. I tried running a 70mm on my large a few weeks ago (normally run a 90mm), but I just couldn't get the hang of it....FWIW, the 90mm thomson on it now poses no problems whatsoever to raising the front or doing trials type moves. It seems we ride the same size frames (29er or otherwise)....give it a try


  21. #21
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    It's too light.

    A Gravity Dropper would bring the weight right up where it needs to be for perfect, balanced handling!
    Whining is not a strategy.

  22. #22
    Neg reppers r my biatches
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    Quote Originally Posted by kosmo
    It's too light.

    A Gravity Dropper would bring the weight right up where it needs to be for perfect, balanced handling!
    i am thinking about just putting a boot on my Thomson and connecting a wire to it so people will think i have a gravity dropper. That way I can look cool yet still live with myself.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade
    Dood, I didn't realize you had a 50mm stem on there. Perhaps a longer stem might be in your future? I only slap on my 50mm when I go to the resorts, but hey, whatever rocks your ride.
    I went from a 70mm to a 90mm on my motolite and found that descending actually improved- weird! Having my weight a little farther forward helped with cornering and picking lines at speed. The 90 is still short enough that I can get the front end up and keep it there. That bike has fairly short chainstays BTW.

    OTOH, I recently ditched the 70mm off my highline and went to a 50mm. I expected the climbing to suffer but it's no worse. The highline's longer wheelbase seems to help keep the front end down even with a shorty stem.

    All I'm sayin' is, you might want to borrow a 70mm and try it- you might find it gives you all the DH benefits of the 50mm but climbs better.

  24. #24
    Neg reppers r my biatches
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM
    I went from a 70mm to a 90mm on my motolite and found that descending actually improved- weird! Having my weight a little farther forward helped with cornering and picking lines at speed. The 90 is still short enough that I can get the front end up and keep it there. That bike has fairly short chainstays BTW.

    OTOH, I recently ditched the 70mm off my highline and went to a 50mm. I expected the climbing to suffer but it's no worse. The highline's longer wheelbase seems to help keep the front end down even with a shorty stem.

    All I'm sayin' is, you might want to borrow a 70mm and try it- you might find it gives you all the DH benefits of the 50mm but climbs better.
    good point....i will try to borrow a 70mm and give it a whirl...what the heck. though I did do a lot of climbing this weekend and while it was clearly not optimal with the 50mm, i did ok but yeah, worth a try.

    cheers

  25. #25
    trail fairy
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    Don't do it FO don't bow to the lycra XC peer pressure ya can't drop the white stem

    Seriously after 4 rides on my RFX Im so in tune at the mo I wouldn't change a thing. I don't like to change things too quickly until Im comfortable with the current setup otherwise u change shiat all the time and get nowhere, experience has taught me this and I still have to fight the urge

    If ya don't find it too much of an issue now it will only get better as ya get more used to the bike, minimise the disadvantages and maximise the advantages I say anyways my 2c
    Enjoy and go kick ass now I wana see some air time from you bud
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  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by FoShizzle
    The ONLY thing I would touch is to add a Blackspire Stinger chainguide, which is already ordered and my friend at my local shop will put it on cause Bikezilla's email to me scared the crap out of me and aint no way I am gonna attempt it in case something is slightly off.
    I'd be interested to hear what the issue was with the Blackspire Stinger.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by FoShizzle
    i am thinking about just putting a boot on my Thomson and connecting a wire to it so people will think i have a gravity dropper. That way I can look cool yet still live with myself.
    Would this "just the boot" modification, still qualify your bike for the "spot FO's RFX w/GD" and claim the bike contest?
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  28. #28
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    im happy for ya buddy. good bike, good guy, good post. congrats on makin the dream come true.
    No, I'm NOT back!

  29. #29
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    Don't listen to them Fo. Niners are for weanies. Those with stingers & gravity droppers are posers.

    Race Face makes this stem in 30mm size. Why use 50mm when 30mm would suffice? Remember, it's not the size but the way you use it. Would look tres cool at the trailhead. Extra points for the flames.



    and I just can't believe you didn't get these cranks. White AND heavy:

    Last edited by The Squeaky Wheel; 11-21-2006 at 06:10 AM.
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  30. #30
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    Anyone running the BB-Mount Stinger???

    Quote Originally Posted by CrashTheDOG
    I'd be interested to hear what the issue was with the Blackspire Stinger.
    Y'know there hasn't been enough feedback on using the Stinger BB mounted version. I have one sitting on my workbench I plan on putting on my Spot, but haven't gotten around to it.



    I've read several comments about the ISCG version requiring grinding of the ISCG mount screws to avoid them hitting the chainring bolts. B'Spire also suggested to use the shims included to shift it outboard until the plate is flush with the face of the BB face+ 1Shimano spacer. (I've read this about other ISCG chainguides as well) I decided to go with the BB version.

    There are two minor issues with the current BB version:
    1) It's 1mm thicker than a standard Shimano bb spacer. If you BB mount it, sandwich style with X-type bb cups your chainline shifts outboard +1mm . I don't think that should really cause a problem but I haven't read enough confirmations from people to say for sure it's NBD. It might be funky on a already finicky drivetraion, or it might be nothing at all.

    2) there's a set screw tab on the back of the BB-mount version Stinger plate that interferes with the ISCG tabs on the RFX. If you don't have ISCG tabs it's a non-issue. If you do, you must grind the set screw boss off the Stinger. Again it's NBD and B'Spire told me it's a common tweak. They plan on removing / repositioning it on future releases. It'll probably take 45 seconds with a dremel to DIY.

    I run a single Shimano spacer on my XT & XTR cranksets. My RFX has a E13 DRS and it's a half mm thinner than a std spacer. I added an .5mm spacer to make up the difference JIC. No problems in almost 2 years.

    I'm looking forward to using the Stinger though. It's a bit more simple and it's got much bigger bearings so the roller will move more freely and last longer. The roller is harder than the DRS roller though. But I believe it can easily be swapped out for the orange LRP roller.
    Last edited by Bikezilla; 11-21-2006 at 08:16 AM.
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  31. #31
    Neg reppers r my biatches
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    Quote Originally Posted by trailadvent
    Don't do it FO don't bow to the lycra XC peer pressure ya can't drop the white stem

    Seriously after 4 rides on my RFX Im so in tune at the mo I wouldn't change a thing. I don't like to change things too quickly until Im comfortable with the current setup otherwise u change shiat all the time and get nowhere, experience has taught me this and I still have to fight the urge

    If ya don't find it too much of an issue now it will only get better as ya get more used to the bike, minimise the disadvantages and maximise the advantages I say anyways my 2c
    Enjoy and go kick ass now I wana see some air time from you bud
    you are right.....i sure dont plan to change anything. if in 10 more rides time it bothers may I may consider it but for now i like the stem so much for technical/downs that it is staying put

    cheers

  32. #32
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    Zilla- I bought the BB mount version first and it was a no go cause of the set screw/ISCG interference, bolted up the ISCG version next and it works fine. I'm running a 952 XTR crankset and a 5mm spacer on the drive side to give the crankset the clearance needed to clear the CG bolts, probably 2mm clearance now. Chainline good.

    I think Skullcrack is running the same crankset as you and the ISCG version without an issue, why bother with the BB version mod if the ISCG fits fine?

  33. #33
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    Hey Fo, just for reference I'm running an 80 on mine and don't feel like it hinders me at all on the descents, climbs good enough too.

    Downside, it's hard to find cool FRish type stems in 70+ sizes

  34. #34
    Natl. Champ DH Poser/Hack
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    only reasons i can think of are:

    1) if it takes a hit, its most likely trashed or close to it. a b/bkt mount will rotate and just might survive.

    2) weight, if yer not fo skitzoid-el.

    3) more h/ware, more setup hassle. b/bkts are easy peasy.
    No, I'm NOT back!

  35. #35
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Clyde S Dale's Avatar
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    BZ and other Stinger users,

    I'm thinking of retiring the AJs Frameguard on my 5 Spot in favor of a Stinger. Can I use the ISCG-mount version of the Stinger on the 5 Spot for better chainline since I use an external cup type bb? In other word can I secure the ISCG-Stinger with the threaded cup? The AJs is thinner than the bb version of the Stinger and it already pushes my chainline out a bit (with no issues, however).

    Thanks,
    CSD


  36. #36
    rr
    rr is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clyde S Dale
    BZ and other Stinger users,

    I'm thinking of retiring the AJs Frameguard on my 5 Spot in favor of a Stinger. Can I use the ISCG-mount version of the Stinger on the 5 Spot for better chainline since I use an external cup type bb? In other word can I secure the ISCG-Stinger with the threaded cup? The AJs is thinner than the bb version of the Stinger and it already pushes my chainline out a bit (with no issues, however).

    Thanks,
    CSD
    Don't think so, it's designed to go OVER the BB shell, look at BZ's pic, the BB version has a smaller diameter to fit the diameter of the BB shell.

  37. #37
    mtbr member
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    Quote Originally Posted by rroeder
    Don't think so, it's designed to go OVER the BB shell, look at BZ's pic, the BB version has a smaller diameter to fit the diameter of the BB shell.
    Yeah, now I see the edge of the bb shell in the pic. Thanks for the reply, rroeder.


  38. #38
    Lay off the Levers
    Reputation: Bikezilla's Avatar
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    Yeah Clyde. What RR said. The ISCG version center hole is big enough to put the BB through. When properly shimmed, it is supposed to line up with the inside face of the bearing cup.

    AJ's shield would be in that same place. Now I suppose you could eliminate the shims to move the stinger inboard and over the bb shell but it probably would not get far enough in to give the frameguard clearance... but maybe.

    Anyway a chain tensioner and a frame guard seems sort of redundant. If your chain tensioner is doing it's job you shouldn't have chaindrops. chainsuck can usually be eliminated through setup or component changes.
    Faster is better, even when it's not.

  39. #39
    Team Sanchez
    Reputation: El Chingon's Avatar
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    I got answers for you. I've been running the BB version of the Stinger on my 07 RFX for a week now(4 rides or so). Works exactly the same as the old ISCG version I had on my 05 Pack. Just remove all spacers, and slap it between the shell and BB. No chainline issues or anything. Mounts easy, never drops a chain. Couldn't ask for more.
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