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  1. #201
    Yebo Numzaan
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    Did the shim mod to a 2011 RP23 on a Knolly Chilcotin. Thanks! Super easy and pretty impressive result.
    I support EMBA

  2. #202
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    Good job!

    that free & easy shim idea DGC came up w/ should get him into the Mtn. Bike Hall of Fame...whatever good that would do him
    breezy shade

  3. #203
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    Very unimpressed with the RP23 on my new 5 spot. Going to give this mod a try before I replace the RP23. I see that a bunch of you guy have used plastic from 'CD spindle cases', what exactly is that?

  4. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Mailloux View Post
    Very unimpressed with the RP23 on my new 5 spot. Going to give this mod a try before I replace the RP23. I see that a bunch of you guy have used plastic from 'CD spindle cases', what exactly is that?
    The big 100 packs of blank CDs come on a spindle with a clear plastic cover. Not necessary at all though. Any cap to a spray can will work, I used the cap to an Edge shave gel can. Just cut up and around so you have a curved strip, do it to a few caps and make each a different width.
    Read back some and I posted the widths I tried for these.
    "...like sex with the trail." - Boe

  5. #205
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    Thanks!!!

  6. #206
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    What is the differen e between this mod and just running a small volume air can? Apart from tuning the size of the strip, is there any other difference?

  7. #207
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    Adding a shim inside the air can results in reducing the air volume.
    in practicemeans less mid travel and better bottom out protection. Depending on the shim size its just like going on a smaller air can

  8. #208
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    It's basically free to add a shim as compared to $30 for a new can (plus you can fine tune the shim). Fox is now offering their own shims to get the same results.

  9. #209
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    That's what I thought, same as a small can but you can vary the results. And of course save $.

    I just got a new (to me) 5 spot with a pushed RP23 so I thought I'd try the mod, but when I took it apart I didn't find a rubber bumper inside, just a shim. And the shim still isn't big enough, I keep bottoming it out with the correct amount of sag. Can you buy the Push stickers separately? Cause it doesn't add up to me.

  10. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr2peak View Post
    That's what I thought, same as a small can but you can vary the results. And of course save $.

    I just got a new (to me) 5 spot with a pushed RP23 so I thought I'd try the mod, but when I took it apart I didn't find a rubber bumper inside, just a shim. And the shim still isn't big enough, I keep bottoming it out with the correct amount of sag. Can you buy the Push stickers separately? Cause it doesn't add up to me.
    ==========
    breezy shade

  11. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by nhodge View Post
    ==========
    Not sure what you're trying to say...

  12. #212
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    So a bit more research shows that the spacer already in the shock is now standard equipment on Turners, and the bumper is just part of the "Big Hit" rebuild. How can I tell if it has been "Factory Tuned" or "Factory Rebuilt"?

    Is there a serial number on the RP23's? Hoping I can call Push and find out what has been done.

  13. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr2peak View Post
    That's what I thought, same as a small can but you can vary the results. And of course save $.

    I just got a new (to me) 5 spot with a pushed RP23 so I thought I'd try the mod, but when I took it apart I didn't find a rubber bumper inside, just a shim. And the shim still isn't big enough, I keep bottoming it out with the correct amount of sag. Can you buy the Push stickers separately? Cause it doesn't add up to me.
    The PUSH bumper is an option and not everyone who gets their shock pushed gets the bumper. All shocks on late 2011 turners and on have a small Fox reducer (hard plastic) that reduces the air volume. The air volume can be further reduced by a larger Fox reducer or by using the DGC method to shim that outer air can.

    If you are still bottoming out, try shimming the outer air can.

  14. #214
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    Serious props to DGC!!!!

    I did this on my Intense Tracer VP and got great results!

    Thanks!

  15. #215
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    Finally got around to doing this mod last night. Took all of 15 minutes and made a very noticeable improvement on the trail this morning.

  16. #216
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    Not all "PUSH-ed" shock are the same....

    Quote Originally Posted by mr2peak View Post
    That's what I thought, same as a small can but you can vary the results. And of course save $.

    I just got a new (to me) 5 spot with a pushed RP23 so I thought I'd try the mod, but when I took it apart I didn't find a rubber bumper inside, just a shim. And the shim still isn't big enough, I keep bottoming it out with the correct amount of sag. Can you buy the Push stickers separately? Cause it doesn't add up to me.
    Maybe the previous owner only had the shock rebuilt or serviced and NOT "tuned"... PUSH puts stickers on shocks when serviced OR rebuilt.

    I think so anyway....

  17. #217
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    Just did this Mod on my friends Trance X bike, and got serious sick result.

    He weight +220lbs, and was constantly bottoming out on a high volume RP2. Installed a wide shim (27cm wide) as I found out that the heavier the rider, and the longer the stroke, the wider the shim has to be.

    sweet!

  18. #218
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    Also just done on my tracer vp, really notice the ramp up pop, pumping through whoops & g outs.
    Cheers.

  19. #219
    DGC
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    Quote Originally Posted by yogidave View Post
    Serious props to DGC!!!!

    I did this on my Intense Tracer VP and got great results!

    Thanks!
    good to hear.
    OUCH...!!!!!!

  20. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by DGC View Post
    good to hear.
    I'll pile on and say thanks as well, DGC. I would be one frustrated Turner owner right now were it not for the mod. The shim makes the 5Spot ridable (for me, on my trails, etc.) over a wider range of terrain.


  21. #221
    DGC
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    Smile thanks

    Quote Originally Posted by Clyde S Dale View Post
    I'll pile on and say thanks as well, DGC. I would be one frustrated Turner owner right now were it not for the mod. The shim makes the 5Spot ridable (for me, on my trails, etc.) over a wider range of terrain.
    Thanks for posting CSD.
    I started this as an idea back in maybe 2004? I had a few customers coming in asking how to tune their Kona, Ventana, Specialized, and Titus bikes for bottom out without cranking up the air pressure a bunch. Once I had something made, I started with trying it out on my bike first before getting any locals on it. What a great use of plastic.....!!!! Then it just snow balled once I got the word out right here on the suspension and Turner forums.

    I am quite satisfied to have helped so many out with something costing free to maybe a few pennies worth of household plastic. In a world of always paying for something to better your ride, This "shim mod" turned out to be one of the best bicycle mods I have ever used. I was never really interested in marketing it to make a bunch of money from it either. Just trying to help out quite a few hundred or so bros. that I don't even know....!!!!!

    Thanks to everyone who has posted their results and/or happiness with the shim over the 5 or so years.....
    p.s...... I have some other great ideas, now where is that Dave Turner guy at.........
    DGC.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails DW 5 Spot RP23 mod-img_4559..0-.jpg  

    OUCH...!!!!!!

  22. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by DGC View Post
    Thanks for posting CSD.
    I started this as an idea back in maybe 2004? I had a few customers coming in asking how to tune their Kona, Ventana, Specialized, and Titus bikes for bottom out without cranking up the air pressure a bunch. Once I had something made, I started with trying it out on my bike first before getting any locals on it. What a great use of plastic.....!!!! Then it just snow balled once I got the word out right here on the suspension and Turner forums.

    I am quite satisfied to have helped so many out with something costing free to maybe a few pennies worth of household plastic. In a world of always paying for something to better your ride, This "shim mod" turned out to be one of the best bicycle mods I have ever used. I was never really interested in marketing it to make a bunch of money from it either. Just trying to help out quite a few hundred or so bros. that I don't even know....!!!!!

    Thanks to everyone who has posted their results and/or happiness with the shim over the 5 or so years.....
    p.s...... I have some other great ideas, now where is that Dave Turner guy at.........
    DGC.
    A surf bike, what a great idea!

  23. #223
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    Thank God for this thread and DGC's knowlege!

    weight: 175lbs geared up
    bike: '11 Giant Reign 1 (non X)
    shock: Fox RP2 Boostvalve w/ XV Sleeve
    Initial psi: 220psi (and still blowing o-ring completely off shaft)
    current psi: 180psi (o-ring still has 1/4" travel remaining)
    shim: 5" x 1" (I was shooting for 135mm x 26mm but it's hard to be exact)
    I used the CD case plastic (already slightly curved so installation was a snap).

    The "XV" or high volume sleeve could easily have accomodated a longer shim as there was space for another 1/2" so there's room to play with as I was worried anything wider than 1" might block the pin hole.

    Thanks DGC!
    00 Spec Rockhopper, 02 Giant NRS, 05 Giant VT, 08 Spec StumpJumper, 11 Giant Reign, 14 Giant Trance 27.5, 15 Pivot Mach 6

  24. #224
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    shim

    Quote Originally Posted by guppie View Post
    Thank God for this thread and DGC's knowlege!

    weight: 175lbs geared up
    bike: '11 Giant Reign 1 (non X)
    shock: Fox RP2 Boostvalve w/ XV Sleeve
    Initial psi: 220psi (and still blowing o-ring completely off shaft)
    current psi: 180psi (o-ring still has 1/4" travel remaining)
    shim: 5" x 1" (I was shooting for 135mm x 26mm but it's hard to be exact)
    I used the CD case plastic (already slightly curved so installation was a snap).

    The "XV" or high volume sleeve could easily have accomodated a longer shim as there was space for another 1/2" so there's room to play with as I was worried anything wider than 1" might block the pin hole.

    Thanks DGC!
    Good to hear. Thanks for posting your info.
    OUCH...!!!!!!

  25. #225
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    just wanna check.....

    i have a fox rp2 (2011) with boost valve, velocity tune M , boost valve tune 200 and rebound tune M, high volume can

    its been fitted to a 2007 norco six three
    am a 250lbs rider atm got the shock set to 260psi with a 23% ish sag
    used mostly for trails and some DH

    anyone know can this mod be done to the above shock and would i see any benefit?

    cheers guys
    Last edited by calum; 06-17-2012 at 04:40 AM.

  26. #226
    gnuH
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    The mod can be done to your shock, and if you are finding that it blows thru its travel, then the mod will help.

    Give it a go - it's free and easy to undo if you don't like it.
    A green bird with a red body. We could look it up in a book. Or we could look up

  27. #227
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    newbie question: is this mod applicable for air forks?

  28. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vodzilla View Post
    newbie question: is this mod applicable for air forks?
    Sorta. If you want to decrease the air volume in the fork (like this shock mod), add additional float fluid on top of the air piston. Remove the top cap and add a bit more. There should be 5 cc in there. Add some more if you'd like.

    Are you having excessive bottoming issues with your fork?

  29. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by wheatgerm View Post
    Sorta. If you want to decrease the air volume in the fork (like this shock mod), add additional float fluid on top of the air piston. Remove the top cap and add a bit more. There should be 5 cc in there. Add some more if you'd like.

    Are you having excessive bottoming issues with your fork?

    no issues yet. i'm just interested with what has been said in this thread about making the suspension more progressive.

  30. #230
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    I used an old shampoo bottle. It's not quite 1.2mm thick so I cut it a little wider for the initial trial run - 25mm. It was a fairly large diameter bottle so it uncoiled nicely in the cylinder. Super easy to install. Didn't even need to take the shock off. I have a Yeti SB-66 and while the anti pedal bob from the Switch link is shockingly robust(yes, pun intended), bottom out on some drops or moderate jumps was an issue. Mid stroke, not so much. haven't ridden yet, but will post results.
    If your not wreckin', your not ridin'.

  31. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by wreckingrob View Post
    I used an old shampoo bottle. It's not quite 1.2mm thick so I cut it a little wider for the initial trial run - 25mm. It was a fairly large diameter bottle so it uncoiled nicely in the cylinder. Super easy to install. Didn't even need to take the shock off. I have a Yeti SB-66 and while the anti pedal bob from the Switch link is shockingly robust(yes, pun intended), bottom out on some drops or moderate jumps was an issue. Mid stroke, not so much. haven't ridden yet, but will post results.
    Good results from this. Where I ride, there is a fairly large ramp(3' tall) to a down hill lander. It's probably a 6' or more drop so the the landing can be harsh. In the past, I would bottom out so hard it would blow the little sag ring off the plunger. Not anymore. Still have about a 1/4" left now. Awesome mode, and super easy.
    If your not wreckin', your not ridin'.

  32. #232
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    2013 Fox example

    Quote Originally Posted by wheatgerm View Post
    Sorta. If you want to decrease the air volume in the fork (like this shock mod), add additional float fluid on top of the air piston. Remove the top cap and add a bit more. There should be 5 cc in there. Add some more if you'd like.

    Are you having excessive bottoming issues with your fork?
    2013 Fox Float CTD 140 is a good example of this. The air spring was redone. There is more air volume apparently and you will see in the coming months in many cases too much. The stroke is linear to the end. 10-15+ cc's ontop of the Fox air piston helps this out, the added fluid on the air piston does much like my shim does for the rear shocks. Same can be done in many air forks. If a said fork ramps up too quickly, it is worth a look under the air cap too see If too much fluid is there.
    OUCH...!!!!!!

  33. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by DGC View Post
    10-15+ cc's ontop of the Fox air piston helps this out, the added fluid on the air piston does much like my shim does for the rear shocks. Same can be done in many air forks. If a said fork ramps up too quickly, it is worth a look under the air cap too see If too much fluid is there.
    Not a good idea to add oil into the positive air chamber of any fork or shock that has a self regulating air negative chamber to control volume.

    When the air chambers open to each other on top out & self regulate, it creates the opening for oil to migrate down into the negative chamber. Then you will have a much lower volume neg chamber and the spring won't work as well.

    It's ok to add oil to a positive air chamber for volume adjustment when the negative spring is coil or air added from a separate port (like dual air). The key being the pos air chamber is fully sealed & independent of the neg spring.

    Edit: looks all the Foax Float forks have a coil negative spring:
    2013 Float 130 - 180 Travel Adjust
    I got the erroneous air negative spring from a Bike Radar review
    Fox 34 Float 160 FIT CTD Fork Review - BikeRadar

    Just a heads up.

    P
    Last edited by Mr.P; 09-12-2012 at 11:48 AM.

  34. #234
    DGC
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    straight from Fox

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.P View Post
    Not a good idea to add oil into the positive air chamber of any fork or shock that has a self regulating air negative chamber to control volume.

    When the air chambers open to each other on top out & self regulate, it creates the opening for oil to migrate down into the negative chamber. Then you will have a much lower volume neg chamber and the spring won't work as well.

    It's ok to add oil to a positive air chamber for volume adjustment when the negative spring is coil or air added from a separate port (like dual air). The key being the pos air chamber is fully sealed & independent of the neg spring.

    I saw that Fox is moving to an air neg chamber for 2013.

    Just a heads up.

    P
    I just talked to Fox, they say that all the 32mm forks use a coil spring for the negative, it does however happen to be longer than previous, and the air chamber is bigger, or feels bigger, as you can feel the first time you push on a 2013 fork and keep in mind the air pressure it has in it. Case in point is my wife's fork set at 75 psi. with a rider weight of 125 pounds, and sag is still at recommended.
    As far as putting more float fluid on the air piston for tuning more progressiveness to the last part of the stroke, that is just fine and they are recommending doing this. Maybe the neg air chamber is in 36 forks? Maybe the new 34's? Dunno, but Fox was quite adamant about coil negative springs in all their 32's.
    OUCH...!!!!!!

  35. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by DGC View Post
    I just talked to Fox, they say that all the 32mm forks use a coil spring for the negative....As far as putting more float fluid on the air piston for tuning more progressiveness to the last part of the stroke, that is just fine and they are recommending doing this.
    Thanks for clarifying that the 32s still have the coil negative spring.

    Edit: looks like the 34 and 36 Floats have a coil negative spring:
    2013 Float 130 - 180 Travel Adjust
    I got the erroneous air negative spring from a Bike Radar review
    Fox 34 Float 160 FIT CTD Fork Review - BikeRadar

    P
    Last edited by Mr.P; 09-12-2012 at 11:47 AM.

  36. #236
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    Here is a visual reference to the negative spring & oil issue for those who might be wondering. This is only for springs that use a self regulating air negative chamber.

    Imagine the oil on top of the piston.
    - the oil can migrate down into the negative chamber at the equalization dimple, filling up the negative chamber, resulting in a harsher shock.


    More detailed nerdiness:
    Tech Tuesday - What a Negative Spring is and Why it Makes the Coil-Spring Nearly Obsolete - Pinkbike

    P

  37. #237
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    34's

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.P View Post
    Thanks for clarifying that the 32s still have the coil negative spring. I do know that the Fox 34 is using an air negative spring. But I am unsure about the 36.

    P
    I rode a 34 Float 29er fork on a Specialized 2013 bike at their dealer event in July. Absolutely hated the fork. I could not believe how harsh and non responsive the fork felt, no matter what air pressure i ran or damping setting. But get on the 32 Float I got for my wife, and you would swear you were riding a coil fork.
    Dunno If the 34 felt so bad because of the auto neg air, or maybe it was a bad fork, I even had their main tech check it out, stumped him as well. It reminded me of an old school mag 20/21 without the top out clunk....!!!!
    OUCH...!!!!!!

  38. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by DGC View Post
    I rode a 34 Float 29er fork on a Specialized 2013 bike at their dealer event in July. Absolutely hated the fork. I could not believe how harsh and non responsive the fork felt, no matter what air pressure i ran or damping setting. But get on the 32 Float I got for my wife, and you would swear you were riding a coil fork.
    Dunno If the 34 felt so bad because of the auto neg air, or maybe it was a bad fork, I even had their main tech check it out, stumped him as well. It reminded me of an old school mag 20/21 without the top out clunk....!!!!
    Funny, I had exactly opposite feeling. F32 felt OK, but there was no way I could use las 20mm of travel. F34 feels even better and it has much more linear feel at the end of the stroke.

    BTW, DGC have you seen this ?
    Fox Float Air Volume Spacer Kit: Installed and Reviewed - Bike Rumor

    Looks like Your idea

  39. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by serhij View Post
    Funny, I had exactly opposite feeling. F32 felt OK, but there was no way I could use las 20mm of travel. F34 feels even better and it has much more linear feel at the end of the stroke.

    BTW, DGC have you seen this ?
    Fox Float Air Volume Spacer Kit: Installed and Reviewed - Bike Rumor

    Looks like Your idea
    Actually, if you ride several 32 Floats they will all feel different.

  40. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by DGC View Post
    2013 Fox Float CTD 140 is a good example of this. The air spring was redone. There is more air volume apparently and you will see in the coming months in many cases too much. The stroke is linear to the end. 10-15+ cc's ontop of the Fox air piston helps this out, the added fluid on the air piston does much like my shim does for the rear shocks. Same can be done in many air forks. If a said fork ramps up too quickly, it is worth a look under the air cap too see If too much fluid is there.
    I just want to correct the information I posted, it looks like all the Float forks have a coil negative spring, so the oil in the air spring side will work.
    2013 Float 130 - 180 Travel Adjust
    I got the erroneous air negative spring from a Bike Radar review
    Fox 34 Float 160 FIT CTD Fork Review - BikeRadar

    P

  41. #241
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    yes

    Quote Originally Posted by serhij View Post
    Funny, I had exactly opposite feeling. F32 felt OK, but there was no way I could use las 20mm of travel. F34 feels even better and it has much more linear feel at the end of the stroke.

    BTW, DGC have you seen this ?
    Fox Float Air Volume Spacer Kit: Installed and Reviewed - Bike Rumor

    Looks like Your idea
    I saw that. Mine is free, and can be made to whatever size you feel you need........
    Free and customizable, can't beat that with any sized stick....!!!!!
    OUCH...!!!!!!

  42. #242
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    DGC, thanks. Rode Annadel today after doing mod exactly as you say. LOTS of rocky chunder, and decent 2 foot jumps at the end of ride (Burma). Never lost rubber band off the btm. Sweeeeet! Back to SAG set per Turner instruction manual. Now to dial in that red knob I am always too lazy to deal with! Thanks again, and thanks to guy from PUSH for input.

  43. #243
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    I've got to say, the Fox volume shims are worth it. Very easy to install, and a very noticeable change. It leaves the outer shell/extra volume air can to do its thing (extra rebound damping on repeated hits; why else would that air passage hole be so small?) so you really do get great results. I tried the plastic sheet shim method and found it helpful, but inadiquate. I'm sticking with the Fox shims.

  44. #244
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    You may have done something wrong if this custom shim mod did not work for you. As you can read thru this thread, it had worked for many. Shims can be customized as well. I have a bunch of different sized shims.

    Did you make a shim that was large enough to make a difference? I have a 13 mm shim that makes a noticeable difference. Perhaps the Fox shim you used is larger than the entire volume of the extra sleeve? This would make this custom shim mod lacking but also gives you less volume than the old standard low volume sleeve.

  45. #245
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    The sleeve shim made a difference, but not enough for me. I'm a light rider, so I never had enough PSI in the shock to support me when taking big hits while maintaining sag. Also because of the low PSI I suffered from the rebound being too slow. The large shim has helped the bottom out problems as well as sped up the rebound.

    However, I will continue to experiment with the DCG mod. It cleans up the mid-stroke wallow (extra rebound damping on repeat hits) much more effectively than the Fox shim kit.

    In summary:
    Fox shim kit inside the shock body helps with bottom-out issues
    DCG mod shimming the sleeve for increased mid-stroke support

  46. #246
    Chris Bling
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    Any word how this mod works with the new Boost Valve rp23's?
    The obsession of wheels fused with the passion of cycling
    Affordable Custom Wheels

  47. #247
    mtbr member
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    Quote Originally Posted by dustyduke22 View Post
    Any word how this mod works with the new Boost Valve rp23's?
    It won't. Fox did away with the sleeve design. Now instead of being able to modify the air volume with a 0.05 dollar piece of plastic, you need to buy a 25.00 dollar piece of plastic.

  48. #248
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    sorry double post...

  49. #249
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    it is actually still possible. Yesterday I did this mod on my Float CTD with high volume air canister, but haven't tried it on the trail yet...

  50. #250
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    hi I have a 2005 fox float r shock (just been serviced) and it bottoms out way too easily, even if I have 10% sag. So I would really like to give this technique a go since people say it works great. Only problem is can I use some other kind of plastic instead of the ski base stuff ?
    I do live in the alps actually but will a ski shop have this ?
    Thanks, I will be grateful for any help !
    Eddy

    PS: great post ! really helpful !

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