Page 4 of 11 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 ... LastLast
Results 76 to 100 of 260
  1. #76
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    5
    I've been having the same thoughts for some time. I experience almost a perfect linear travel and would want my shock to be somewhat more responsive. But I already ride with the lowest amount of air pressure, any lower and I will bottom out. I weigh 70KG and ride a 2004 5spot with a fox float RL propedal AVA. Now I understand what the AVA is for! This reduces the volume of the air chamber, so in a sense I already have the mod on my bike! And I just took a quick look at it and I have it set to achieve the largest air chamber. Now I will set it to the mid setting for my next ride, and try a little lower air pressure. Expect an update soon, I'm really interested to see if it will have the same effect as DGC's mod.

  2. #77
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    143
    Quote Originally Posted by PUSHIND
    You don't want to add oil into the air cylinder of a FLOAT series shock as it will bypass the main air seal via the transfer port in the air can and collect in the negative chamber of the shock. The pooling will negatively effect the function of the shock and additionally cause excessive weeping of fluid onto the shock body causing the seals to prematurely wear.

    Stick with the DGC mod as a DIY mod as it doesn't tamper with the shocks function in a negative way.

    Darren

    So.. no problem adding oil into air cylinder on DHX?? just in Float?

  3. #78
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    153
    Just did DGC's mod on my '09 Tracer VP. The bike came with the '10 RP23 w/ Boost Valve. In setting the proper sag, the linkage rate on the Tracer would blow through the stroke on medium drops, even with the PP / Boost Valve turned on. Plushness suffered a bit also. No amount of tinkering could get me the results I was looking for. FYI, the shock dimensions are 7.875" x 2.25". Geared up with Camelback, I weigh about 180lbs. The bike is set to 6" travel mode for both the front and rear.

    I used 1.19mm thick plastic from a CDR spindle case, as P-Tex isn't easily found here in Georgia. I sized it at 137mm x 21mm. A very easy install, though I did have to remove the bottom shock spacers as they are 41mm wide, bigger than the HV sleeve. The first noticeable difference is 10lbs less air to reach correct sag. Small bump compliance is still excellent, and the shock/bike now ramps up nicely at the end of the stroke. I'll get the bike out this week for some proper testing and report back to all.

    My hats off to DGC for the experimenting and the detailed instructions.

  4. #79
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    143
    I did the same mod on DHX 5 for Orange Patriot and was fine. thanks DGC

  5. #80
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    41
    Hi all! I just tried this mod... I used cd-r spindle plastic for the shim & since I don't have a set of calipers I'm not sure of the thickness. So I cut up a 135 x 27mm piece. So far so easy. I then removed the shock from the bike & proceeded to remove the c clip. Easy again. Now here is where I fark up! from dgc's Instructions, popping off the air sleeve should be easy... But I had a ***** of a time trying to get it off! I really put in some elbow grease and almost gave up when suddenly there was a loud pop and the sleeve gave way! There was a bit of fluid that must have been forced out and the bottom o ring popped off! So i put the oring back on & check that both are seated snugly and carefully put in the shim & put the sleeve & then c clip back on. Once installed I add 135psi, prior to this mod i ran 145psi to get 17mm sag on my dw 5spot, I was expecting to see a simar amount of sag as before (due to the reduction in air volume), but I got close to 20mm. I re read dgc's post & I realised I forgot to remove all the air from the shock first!

    So I hope I havent broken any of the internals of the shock by removing the air sleeve whilst it was pressurized? I hope not... If any thing would I have lost some shock fluid, could that explain why there is more sag? ... do I need to add more shock fluid?
    Last edited by lzyboy; 11-12-2009 at 06:32 AM.

  6. #81
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    153
    I wouldn't think you damaged any internals. The diffucult removal of the sleeve was probably due to air pressure on the seals. The pressure still inside the shock was applying pressue to both seals in the HV sleeve, forcing them tight (by design) hence the effort needed to remove it. As long as the seals are okay, you should be fine. I'm assuming the bit of shock fluid that came out is Float fluid, used in the maintainance. If so, just service the shock. Clean the insides of the cannister, grease the seals, and add 2cc of fresh Float fluid.

    At the lower air pressures you are running, I wouldn't think there would be as much difference in your before and after pressures. I'm about 5% less. Set the sag where it needs to be without worrying too much about the psi..Then check out the ride and fine tune from there.

    FYI, a 27mm wide piece seems a bit wider than dgc's recommendations. The shock may be too progressive and not use full travel. Testing will tell.

  7. #82
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    41
    Cheers rsvrjimbo02!
    What you're saying about the difficulty of removing the air sleeve makes real sense... even to a non mechanically minded person like myself.

    I'll pull it apart again tonight and check for damage to the seals and do a general service on the sleeve as you suggested.

    On the way out the door to work this morning I checked the air sleeve … how tight a seal do the o-rings form when the can is pressurised? Should I be able to rotate the sleeve by hand? I was able to turn it fairly easily … I'm not talking limp wristed handshake sort of pressure, more like a giving it a firm hold and turning.

    Oh, as for the width of the shim … I was going by the suggested width of a 0.9mm thick CD-R spindle from one of the previous posters being 27mm. Like you said once I get a bit more time to test it out properly I'll be able to fine tune it!! Bring on the weekend!!!

  8. #83
    DGC
    DGC is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation: DGC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,342

    pow

    Quote Originally Posted by lzyboy
    Cheers rsvrjimbo02!
    What you're saying about the difficulty of removing the air sleeve makes real sense... even to a non mechanically minded person like myself.

    I'll pull it apart again tonight and check for damage to the seals and do a general service on the sleeve as you suggested.

    On the way out the door to work this morning I checked the air sleeve … how tight a seal do the o-rings form when the can is pressurised? Should I be able to rotate the sleeve by hand? I was able to turn it fairly easily … I'm not talking limp wristed handshake sort of pressure, more like a giving it a firm hold and turning.

    Oh, as for the width of the shim … I was going by the suggested width of a 0.9mm thick CD-R spindle from one of the previous posters being 27mm. Like you said once I get a bit more time to test it out properly I'll be able to fine tune it!! Bring on the weekend!!!

    Man your somewhat lucky the thing did not hit you releasing the air sleeve with air still in there. No harm done.
    Once you get lube on the air sleeve o-ring seals, it will allow the body to move easier even with air in there. No worries, just be sure it feels generally fine riding it, then you should not have any damage.
    The shim size you chose is quite big, but see if you like it. a cd-r spindle plastic is thinner so you will be close to what you want, If it ramps up a bit too much for you, just take that existing shim and trim it down a few mm's.
    OUCH...!!!!!!

  9. #84
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    153
    The HV sleeve can spin on the canister, even when pressurized. I have an '08 HV RP23 on my Stumpjumper, and that sleeve spins fairly easily when turning. PUSH told me to use a strap wrench on the canister itself to remove the canister for service as the HV sleeve would spin. As long as it is sealing and holding air, you are fine.

  10. #85
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    41
    Id thought I'd better post an update, I bit the bullet and went out and bought a set of digital calipers! Fairly cheap ... $29AUD from Dick Smiths (for the benefit of any Aussie readers on this board!) and measured my shim thickness. It was actually around the 1.12 to 1.2mm mark, so goes to show that not all CD-R spindles covers are made the same! So, I cut down the width to 22mm. I measured sag and ended up using putting in 140psi to get about 15mm of sag.

    So, I took the bike out on the trail and did some testing. Unfortunately I'm one of those guys who's not really in tune with their bike whilst riding so I cant really remember in detail how the bike rode before the shim, but I do remember doing a test by pre-loading and popping off a gutter and the shock pretty much used all its travel. Now this is something that I'd hope the shim would sort out. Anyway, back on the trail, and during fast blats down rough sections (no drops or jumps), the shock is super plush and seems to not excessively use all its travel. However, going off a small 1 foot kicker, I found it used up all of its travel, I didnt feel any harsh bottoming out but yes, the o-ring was right at the bottom! So, I changed the PSI to 145 but it made no difference.

    So post ride, I visited the LBS and explained the situation to the suspension tech guy there. So he set up the sag for his weight and did the "gutter" test and sure enough, all travel used.

    He said that he'd had previous conversations with some Fox techs who solved this by packing in Slick Honey at the top of the main chamber (same spot where the bumper of a Pushed RP23 goes). So he gave that a try, although I'd not sure how much he packed in there.

    We performed the "gutter" test again after the fact and this time, the o-ring was approx 8-10mm from the bottom.

    I have yet to go for a proper ride since to see how this affects the overall ride.

    And Im a bit dubious about this as a long term solution to the problem either...

  11. #86
    Daniel the Dog
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    6,552

    Hmmm

    A 2,5k frame and shock should not need any modifications. Early model bug?

  12. #87
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    41
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaybo
    A 2,5k frame and shock should not need any modifications. Early model bug?
    I think this is an issue with the shock or the setup of the shock, I dont think its got anything to do with the frame!

  13. #88
    DGC
    DGC is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation: DGC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,342

    PUSH bumper

    Quote Originally Posted by DGC
    So if you read my review of the DW Spot, at the end i mentioned the bottom out on the shock. I have heard only a few people mention the same thing, easy to bottom out.
    Instead of bumping the air pressure up, losing sag and losing small bump performance, I have come up with a mod that will end the ease at bottom out and keep all small bump and mid stroke plushness pretty much the same. Does not take an expensive rebuilt custom tuned shock either. Everyone of you can do this mod in a few minutes. it is very simple.
    If you remember some years ago I was making shims for the DHX air for the 5 Spot. Instead of just dumping the shock and moving onto the RP23 I wanted to try to ramp up the end of the stroke on the dhx-a, it did not fix the mid stroke wallow, but it sure made for a nice decending shock. The same idea applies here. I had throughout all the riding/testing on the DW 5 Spot done a ride or loop on the shock as stock, then lnstalled the shim and did the same ride minutes later. I did this many times to be sure the shim idea was going to be acceptable. Not only did it turn out acceptable, but the results were so good, I won't go back to the stock set up.
    All I am essentially doing is reducing the air sleeve volume. The outer large sleeve that is, NOT the main air sleeve. I will say this again later, leave the main air sleeve on the shock, it does not need to be removed.
    The shim is made of ski base material, or better known as plastic. EXACTLY 1.2mm thick. I have tried thicker, around 1.5-1.7mm and it makes it nearly impossible to get the air sleeve back on. Any ski shop has this stuff. It is quite cheap. A few bucks or maybe 5 bucks and your set. It gets sold to us ski shops in sheets and even rolls. Many thicknesses are offered so stick with the exact 1.2mm rule and you will be fine. Get an accurate set of calipers to measure, or borrow some. I have tried a few different width pieces and I found the one I will reccomend being about the best size for the average rider on the DW 5 Spot.
    The size i felt works real good is 135mm long by 20mm wide. Keep the length exact at 135mm's. My riding weight is 190 lbs., I like agressive rough technical rides with plenty of chance for small air's, so trust me this size is good to start with. If you were really having a bottom out problem and are doing lots of small drops and kickers then maybe a little wider, but make yourself known and I will tell you what I think based on your needs. I tried a 23mm wide piece, I like the 20mm better.
    First off, get enough of the materail or something similar that is plyable enough to roll up into the size of a half dollar, stiff and brittle wont work. There should be other stuff out there just about the thickness and softness as the ski base stuff i use. Plastic is all over the place if you think about it.
    Once you got the material, cut your piece with a sharp box knife, thin blades work best. Next, with the shock off the bike, release all air from the shock air valve. LEAVE the main air sleeve on the shock. Then remove big metal c-clip that sits on the end of the outer air sleeve. I use a c-clip tool and barely put any pressure on each end of the c-clip and it raises up enough to get of with your fingers from here. Then grasp the outer air sleeve and push down on it away from the top of the shock and it will easily pop right off. Clean any dirt from both ends of the air sleeve as there are 2 big air seals that need to reseal properly. Installing the shim is shown in one of my pictures, roll the shim up tight so you get get it on the air sleeve without touching the edge of the shim to the seal. Put the shim inside and at the end of the air sleeve (bottom end) in which the c-clip sits against. The other end (top end) of the air sleeve is where the air bleed hole is located, this is where air comes from the main sleeve, don't cover it up with the shim. Make sense so far?
    When you position the shim against the inside of the body and at the bottom end of the air sleeve you can actually click or press the shim ends together for a good fit, that is why I say exactly 135mm long on the shim. It will stay there securely. Then put c-clip back in place, it will sit in its groove, then air up the shock and go ride it......!!!!!!
    It is simple to do this.
    I am running about 5-10 psi. less air with the shim. Remember you are taking away air space or volume so a little less air might be what you end up with. I have been running sag right about 15 or 16mm's, about 5/8 of an inch.
    Trust me, this works damn good. Sounds a little wierd, but if both Rock Shox and Fox are using plastic spacers in their shocks then there is no reason to doubt this mod if you need a little ramp at the end of the stroke for bottom out protection.

    Remember this line...........Try it, you'll like it. """Mikey likes it and he hates everything....!!!!"""

    Any questions? Ask away.

    I have been meaning to post this picture for a long time, finally found it burried in the files. This is the BO bumper on the PUSH system.
    Darren already posted a pic sometime back, but here is a better close up if anyone is interested.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails DW 5 Spot RP23 mod-_mg_1685-copy.jpg  

    OUCH...!!!!!!

  14. #89
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Guitarzan415's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    510

    Looks easey enough!

    With a little elbow grease and the right parts (old shock bumper, trip to the hardwear store for a washer and O-ring) it looks doable!

  15. #90
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    1

    Genomarg

    Hi there from New Zealand. I have just completed Darrens RP23 air sleeve reduction mod on my 2009 Trek Remedy.
    This bike had the 7.787 x 2.25 RP23 HV can, therefore the thickness of the shim was not critical for installation, although I ended up with a similar 1.5 x 20 x 137 size for first impression.
    The high volume can has approx 3mm clearance around the shock housing.
    The material below is readily available from most engineering plastic suppliers.

    UHMWPE
    Ultra High Molecular Weight Polyethylene

    Ultra High Molecular Weight Polyethylene (UHMWPE) is often referred to as the world’s toughest polymer. UHMWPE is a linear high density polyethylene which has high abrasion resistance, as well as high impact strength. UHMWPE is also chemical resistant and has a low coefficient of friction which makes it highly effective in a variety of applications.

    Cheers from New Zealand
    Shane

  16. #91
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Vespasianus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    3,358
    Quote Originally Posted by Shane Fever
    Hi there from New Zealand. I have just completed Darrens RP23 air sleeve reduction mod on my 2009 Trek Remedy.
    This bike had the 7.787 x 2.25 RP23 HV can, therefore the thickness of the shim was not critical for installation, although I ended up with a similar 1.5 x 20 x 137 size for first impression.
    The high volume can has approx 3mm clearance around the shock housing.
    The material below is readily available from most engineering plastic suppliers.

    UHMWPE
    Ultra High Molecular Weight Polyethylene

    Ultra High Molecular Weight Polyethylene (UHMWPE) is often referred to as the world’s toughest polymer. UHMWPE is a linear high density polyethylene which has high abrasion resistance, as well as high impact strength. UHMWPE is also chemical resistant and has a low coefficient of friction which makes it highly effective in a variety of applications.

    Cheers from New Zealand
    Shane
    So how dos it effect the ride of the Trek?

  17. #92
    Underskilled
    Reputation: CaveGiant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    4,111
    fantastic info,
    I am having trouble bottoming my WFO/rp23, this seems a perfect solution.

    I was wondering about putting a bit of heavy grease in the outer chamber to reduce volume more. I am hoping the thick grease will not migrate like oil.

    Any thoughts,

    P x

  18. #93
    spr
    spr is online now
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    79

    RP23 changes

    Are there any changes in the RP23 from the original shock for the DW Spot?
    What about 2010 shock?
    thx

  19. #94
    Cannonball!
    Reputation: coiler-d's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    474
    Quote Originally Posted by iDrew
    Thanks for the info. & instructions

    My Intense Tracer VP suffers with the same problems and I have just installed a 25mm wide CD lid shim.

    Cheers
    How did it work with the Intense?

  20. #95
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    9
    The DW 5.SPOT has a RP23 HV air can valved in light/light with recommended sag from TURNER of 17mm. The 2010 bikes are NOT coming with the the new "boostvalve" shock. I Tried one on my bike and it worked fine but went back to the stock shock. Next for me is to try the shim and see what it rides like.

  21. #96
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    153
    Quote Originally Posted by coiler-d
    How did it work with the Intense?
    I tired this mod on on 09 Tracer w/2010 RP23. Fiddled with a cople sizes and got decents results, but not what I was looking for. I also tried the standard air can, which improved the bottoming, but stiffened up the small bump compliance more than I wanted. FYI, I weigh 175-180 with wintter gear. Bigger riders may have a more difficult time getting it adjusted right.

    My final solution was to send it off to PUSH. I had the Big Hit kit installed also. Now the shock is awesome. A plush ride that doesn't blow through the suspension, and can take some pretty good hits without any harsh bottoming ; 3.5' drops to flats. I haven't tried anything bigger than that.

  22. #97
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    928
    Hey DGC you rock! The mod was as you state extremely simple, and since I am at a similar weight your suggested size reduced a lot of trial and error.
    This thing is fantastic Added exactly the end-of-travel ramp-up I needed on my DW-Spot while keeping the ride just plush.
    Kol Hakavod!!
    Last edited by tald; 04-02-2010 at 01:29 PM.
    Hear no evil. See no evil. Speak no evil. (Do it !?!)

  23. #98
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    30
    Mod seems to have done the trick but havent had the time to get out and ride it yet, so I will post back again later. I used the side of a cylindrical CD stack and it came out to be about 1.17-1.22 mm thick. Varied a little bit, but could also be my Digital caliper being a little bit off. I ended up using a 21mm wide piece and so far so good. This is on a Fox RP23 mounted on a GT Force frame. I am also about 205lbs riding weight rider so the HV was a bit too linear for me. Again, like I said, I will post back after I hit the trails.

  24. #99
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    107
    I did the DGC shim-mod to a 2008 DHX Air 4.0 on RM Slayer. Great mod.
    I used a lower volume shim though as the Slayer did not need a massive adjustment. About 2.75cc worth of shim. 0.8x137x25 - my plastic was thin.
    Was able to run lower pressure for more plush at the start but with slightly better mid and more resistance to bottoming.
    Super easy mod.
    A1. Thanks.

  25. #100
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    30
    UPDATE: So I got out and rode with the shim (135x21x1.2) and it did the trick but not to the extend i was looking. Went home, made another shim (135x24x1.2) rode it again last night, and that did the trick. Feels great, running 15 psi lower than originally, giving me more plushness and better bottoming resistance at the end of the stroke. I bottom maybe twice during the ride, and one of those was due to a 5 ft drop onto a sloped landing. Thanks DGC!

Page 4 of 11 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •