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  1. #101
    cycle dad
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    I've got the 2010 rp23 w/ boost valve and an xv air chamber on my 2010 Diamond Back Mission 2. At recommended sag I can bottom out by rolling fast up a curb without hopping. Boost valve does nothing. Less than recommended sag equals crappy ride. I'm going to try the shim, but I won't mention it to fox if I need to take advantage of the warranty at any point.

  2. #102
    DGC
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    awesome

    Quote Originally Posted by srbecker
    UPDATE: So I got out and rode with the shim (135x21x1.2) and it did the trick but not to the extend i was looking. Went home, made another shim (135x24x1.2) rode it again last night, and that did the trick. Feels great, running 15 psi lower than originally, giving me more plushness and better bottoming resistance at the end of the stroke. I bottom maybe twice during the ride, and one of those was due to a 5 ft drop onto a sloped landing. Thanks DGC!
    The great thing about the mod has been the ability to make what you need. Thicker, thinner, longer, shorter, wider etc.
    I am blown away at the success this simple mod has done for so many riders.......on any make of bike. Can be made from plastic around the house.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails DW 5 Spot RP23 mod-_mg_6284-copy.jpg  

    DW 5 Spot RP23 mod-_mg_6283-copy.jpg  

    OUCH...!!!!!!

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by DGC
    The great thing about the mod has been the ability to make what you need. Thicker, thinner, longer, shorter, wider etc.
    I am blown away at the success this simple mod has done for so many riders.......on any make of bike. Can be made from plastic around the house.

    Hi DGC. I think I missed out on the thread of your shims and the DHX-Air. I seem to cant find it in the search here. Can you direct me to it via a link here please?

    BTW, just did this mod to my RP23. Dropped 10 psi and shock just feels soooo much better now...

    cheers bro!

  4. #104
    DGC
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    this thread

    Quote Originally Posted by emrs0414
    Hi DGC. I think I missed out on the thread of your shims and the DHX-Air. I seem to cant find it in the search here. Can you direct me to it via a link here please?

    BTW, just did this mod to my RP23. Dropped 10 psi and shock just feels soooo much better now...

    cheers bro!
    If you go to the top of this thread which is RP23 based, you will get all you need for info. The older DHX-a shock air sleeve is basically the same as the RP. I have not looked for the original thread for some time. That started back in like......2005 or 06? I have not checked a new dhx-a.
    OUCH...!!!!!!

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by DGC
    If you go to the top of this thread which is RP23 based, you will get all you need for info. The older DHX-a shock air sleeve is basically the same as the RP. I have not looked for the original thread for some time. That started back in like......2005 or 06? I have not checked a new dhx-a.

    Alrighty... thanks DGC... cheers.

  6. #106
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    Hi DGC
    Do you think I could achieve the same benefits with a RP23 installed in a 2005 Flux, if so could you help me with the numbers of the shim.
    In my workshop, dirty hands is a state of mind

  7. #107
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    Hi folks,

    I have recently bought a 2011 Giant Reign 2 that uses the Fox Float RP2 w/XV sleeve & boost valve. It looks the same as the RP23 and I'm curious whether I can utilise this shim mod to reduce this typical bottoming out issue?

    Daz.

  8. #108
    siv
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    I also have a 2011 Reign and can say that the Boost Valve does nothing. Why do us riders have to fix a $400 shock with a $5 piece of plastic? Guess I'll try the mod this week.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by siv
    I also have a 2011 Reign and can say that the Boost Valve does nothing. Why do us riders have to fix a $400 shock with a $5 piece of plastic? Guess I'll try the mod this week.

    $5! WTH are you gonna use?
    breezy shade

  10. #110
    DGC
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    Quote Originally Posted by deafwish
    Hi folks,

    I have recently bought a 2011 Giant Reign 2 that uses the Fox Float RP2 w/XV sleeve & boost valve. It looks the same as the RP23 and I'm curious whether I can utilise this shim mod to reduce this typical bottoming out issue?

    Daz.
    I am quite sure the outer sleeve is the same one as found on the RP23, so it should be fine to do the mod to.
    OUCH...!!!!!!

  11. #111
    DGC
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    Good job! plastic is free

    Quote Originally Posted by siv
    I also have a 2011 Reign and can say that the Boost Valve does nothing. Why do us riders have to fix a $400 shock with a $5 piece of plastic? Guess I'll try the mod this week.
    SIV,
    In many homes, plastic is free.........any house hold flexible plastic will work. Keep the thickness to about 1 mm. CD containers have been used by some, plastic from a bucket by others, etc.

    Does your air pressure reflect the correct sag suggested by Giant? Are you having problems with mid stroke wallow? Or is the rear shock just bottoming too easy?

    Mid stroke wallow and other related first half or so of the stroke issues could be fixed with a custom damper tune from PUSH. Just bottoming, then the shim can do the trick.

    Remember what Fox does is produce huge mass amounts of shocks for the majority of suspension bike manufacturers. Think about how many different designs there are, even small differences in very similar designs. Now, consider on the RP23 there is only 3 compression tunes and 3 rebound tunes from Fox for frame manufacturers to choose from, and maybe 3 air sleeves too? That is quite limited to choose from for the amount of demand in designs the industry has to offer. That means the Fox tune on most bikes are quite generic, and in no way custom tuned to the rider.

    Thank God there companies like PUSH to take it to the next level and offer custom tuning that the shock manufacturers don't offer.

    Just shoot for a 1mm thick by 137mm long and 23mm wide piece and see what it does for you.
    OUCH...!!!!!!

  12. #112
    cycle dad
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    But the boost valve still does nothing at all. That seems like a broken damper problem. I see I'm not the only one with this problem.

  13. #113
    DGC
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    boost

    Quote Originally Posted by taletotell
    But the boost valve still does nothing at all. That seems like a broken damper problem. I see I'm not the only one with this problem.
    I rode someones bike with 2 different RP23's, same exact shock set up, except boost valve on one, pre boost valve era on the other. I could barely tell any difference in the boost valve shock.
    OUCH...!!!!!!

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by DGC
    Thank God there companies like PUSH to take it to the next level and offer custom tuning that the shock manufacturers don't offer.
    I'd be thanking Him more if PUSH broadened their horizons.
    A green bird with a red body. We could look it up in a book. Or we could look up

  15. #115
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    I have a reign2 i just recently bought and having bottoming out problem. My riding weight is around 175lbs, and i found a plastic sign at work that measure 1.4mm in thickness will this workout for this type on mod for the shock I have ( RP2 ).

    I have cut 4 different witdh( 20, 21.5, 22, & 22.5 ) already but dont really know which will work the best, usual rides i takes includes DH, some 3 to 5 feet drops.

  16. #116
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    Just wondering if someone already tried this upgrade on RP23 BV 2010 or 2011? Are the inside parts same? is this upgrade doable on these shocks?

    I own 2011 Cube fritzz PRO with this shock and as everybody said- bottoming problem/bad SAG again. So I definitely want to try this upgrade, but wanna know if the work gonna be same as on 09 models.

    PS: sry for my english, Im from Czech republic.

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Josefista
    Just wondering if someone already tried this upgrade on RP23 BV 2010 or 2011? Are the inside parts same? is this upgrade doable on these shocks?

    I own 2011 Cube fritzz PRO with this shock and as everybody said- bottoming problem/bad SAG again. So I definitely want to try this upgrade, but wanna know if the work gonna be same as on 09 models.

    PS: sry for my english, Im from Czech republic.
    while the internals may differ slightly due to the boost valve, the outer sleeve works the same as the previous models and should produce the same results. I may be doing a similar mod to my monarch plus when it arrives...

  18. #118
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    I tried a shim at 137 x 20mm and it made a significant difference to the shock's performance near it's travel limit!
    I'm now able to run a little more sag and the shock will now only bottom out from a big hit or drop.
    Thanks for the advice, fellas!

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Josefista
    Just wondering if someone already tried this upgrade on RP23 BV 2010 or 2011? Are the inside parts same? is this upgrade doable on these shocks?

    I own 2011 Cube fritzz PRO with this shock and as everybody said- bottoming problem/bad SAG again. So I definitely want to try this upgrade, but wanna know if the work gonna be same as on 09 models.

    PS: sry for my english, Im from Czech republic.
    Yes - I'm running the 'standard' size shim on a 2010 BV RP23. Like the non-BV shocks, the BV model was blowing through its travel to easily.
    A green bird with a red body. We could look it up in a book. Or we could look up

  20. #120
    DGC
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    dgc

    Quote Originally Posted by Josefista
    Just wondering if someone already tried this upgrade on RP23 BV 2010 or 2011? Are the inside parts same? is this upgrade doable on these shocks?

    I own 2011 Cube fritzz PRO with this shock and as everybody said- bottoming problem/bad SAG again. So I definitely want to try this upgrade, but wanna know if the work gonna be same as on 09 models.

    PS: sry for my english, Im from Czech republic.
    I just put a shim inside a 2011 RP23 BV. Same sized air sleeve therefore no changes as far as the shim and air sleeve are concerned.
    OUCH...!!!!!!

  21. #121
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    Thank you for responds guys. And ofc good idea about that shim DGC. So simple and (hopefuly) effective.
    I really dont understand why so many companies give this shock on their enduro models!

    Well, I think I am going to visit this forum more often now

  22. #122
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    How often should a shock bottom out?
    I have only ever bottomed it once - from a big landing off stairs.
    Might the shim be too large?

  23. #123
    cycle dad
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    If that is the only time you are probably set for freeride. How does it feel over small bumps?

  24. #124
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    It seems fine on small bumps but this is my first dual suspension bike - so I don't know otherwise...

  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by DGC
    I just put a shim inside a 2011 RP23 BV. Same sized air sleeve therefore no changes as far as the shim and air sleeve are concerned.

    I have a 2011 rp2 XV with boost valve. It bottoms out quite easily and I'm thinking of doing your thing here.

    I have a few questions though if someone can answer:

    1. Does it do the trick in the rp2 or only in the rp23?
    2. That plastic thing measuring 135mm long by 20mm wide, do we stcuk it in there with glue or something else? Or just leave it there? Wont it move or go away?
    3. Do I need to change the plastic seal to a new one when I disassemble?
    4. Will I need to add any extra oil or anything?

    I am sorry for all those stupid questions but I'm new to cycling and kind of afraid to open the suspension on my new bike...

  26. #126
    DGC
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    answers

    Quote Originally Posted by giteart
    I have a 2011 rp2 XV with boost valve. It bottoms out quite easily and I'm thinking of doing your thing here.

    I have a few questions though if someone can answer:

    1. Does it do the trick in the rp2 or only in the rp23?
    2. That plastic thing measuring 135mm long by 20mm wide, do we stcuk it in there with glue or something else? Or just leave it there? Wont it move or go away?
    3. Do I need to change the plastic seal to a new one when I disassemble?
    4. Will I need to add any extra oil or anything?

    I am sorry for all those stupid questions but I'm new to cycling and kind of afraid to open the suspension on my new bike...
    They are not stupid questions.
    RP2 should use the same air sleeves as the RP23, should fit fine. Do not glue anything, you could get glue in other places and ruin the shock, or at least kill the seals and air flow from one sleeve to the other......NO GLUE....... No need to change any seals out as long as your careful. If you measure exact, and go with say 136mm-137mm long shim, it will fit so well it will snap into place and never move. If you take the entire air sleeve off exposing the main damper body, then you may need to add some float fluid, or grease.
    But if done correctly, take off only the outer air sleeve, then there is no need to add any lube inside the inner sleeve as long as it is not needing fresh lube from lack of service, other than maybe add the slightest reassembly lube on the outer air sleeve seals located at the top and bottom of the air sleeve.

    DGC.
    OUCH...!!!!!!

  27. #127
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    Thanks a million DGC.

    I cut the shim today. 135*19.5*1.35. I'll make the repair this weekend and report later.

    Hope it does the trick

  28. #128
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    Test Results On The Rp2 Xv 2011

    Maximum travel of the indicating rubber in the suspension is 54mm


    BEFORE SHIMING

    170psi sag 25%
    Drop from 30cm--> rubber moved 44mm
    Drop from 80cm--> rubber moved 52mm

    200psi (sag 11mm) 20.3%
    Drop from 30cm--> rubber moved 35mm
    Drop from 80cm--> rubber moved 48mm


    AFTER SHIMING

    170psi sag 25%
    Drop from 30cm--> rubber moved 41mm
    Drop from 80cm--> rubber moved 49mm

    200psi (sag 11mm) 20.3%
    Drop from 30cm--> rubber moved 30mm
    Drop from 80cm--> rubber moved 46mm


    I leave the conclusions to you.
    Last edited by giteart; 03-20-2011 at 06:49 AM.

  29. #129
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    My bike is a Trek Remedy 2009 with an XV can. I think the inner diameter of the air can is wider compared to an HV. Did anyone try it on an XV and what is the correct length of the plastic shim? What is a good starting point of thickness and width? I am quite heavy (95kg) and bottoming out easily when riding hard.

    Thanks alot!

  30. #130
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    I tried it on an XV can. The 135mm were little. I'd go with 140. Maybe start with 145 see if it fits nicely or not and cut a little at a time

  31. #131
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    I'm guessing this mod will work with the Fox Float R? Not 100% sure if the Float R has the high volume sleeve like the RP2 and RP23. If it does not have the high volume sleeve is this mod still worthwhile for a 250lbs Clyde?

    - Pete

  32. #132
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    Well guys? Is the shim mod not relevant to the Fox Float R since there not the HV sleeves?

  33. #133
    _dw
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    Quote Originally Posted by giteart
    Maximum travel of the indicating rubber in the suspension is 54mm


    BEFORE SHIMING

    170psi sag 25%
    Drop from 30cm--> rubber moved 44mm
    Drop from 80cm--> rubber moved 52mm

    200psi (sag 11mm) 20.3%
    Drop from 30cm--> rubber moved 35mm
    Drop from 80cm--> rubber moved 48mm


    AFTER SHIMING

    170psi sag 25%
    Drop from 30cm--> rubber moved 41mm
    Drop from 80cm--> rubber moved 49mm

    200psi (sag 11mm) 20.3%
    Drop from 30cm--> rubber moved 30mm
    Drop from 80cm--> rubber moved 46mm


    I leave the conclusions to you.
    I think that you may find yourself happier with a standard can and more sag (closer to 30%). The bike was designed with this adjustablity in mind, why not use it?!

    Dave
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  34. #134
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    I have news about 2011 RP23 BV.
    I finally had enough courage to do this upgrade today. I took plastic from big cd box. its thiner so I cut 2,5 cm x 13,5 cm. What a surprise when I found out its not long enough to fit corectly. After that I tried lenghts until it fits, final lenght was exactly 15 cm. I dont know if its because I have 200 mm shock or its because of BV. So its just info for owners of new models that you might need 15 cm long shim instead of 13,5 cm.
    Result: as graph on first page shows- results are great. At last I have proper SAG (twice bigger) and I don't bottom out. pressure 15-20 psi less than before.

    (sry for eng)
    Last edited by Josefista; 05-02-2011 at 10:10 AM.

  35. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by _dw
    I think that you may find yourself happier with a standard can and more sag (closer to 30%). The bike was designed with this adjustablity in mind, why not use it?!

    Dave

    You might be right but im in no mood and dont care that much to search and change the rear suspension at this time.

    Anyway i was thinking that FOX promotes the XV or the XXV large chambers as something good. Then us by shiming it and reducing the volume is like we undo the large volume...

    It seems like a paradox to me but it kinda works well in the end

  36. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonypete
    Well guys? Is the shim mod not relevant to the Fox Float R since there not the HV sleeves?

    Im guessing it will work. But its just a guess. Why not try higher pressures before shimming since you dont have a large can air volume to reduce?

  37. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by giteart
    You might be right but im in no mood and dont care that much to search and change the rear suspension at this time.

    Anyway i was thinking that FOX promotes the XV or the XXV large chambers as something good. Then us by shiming it and reducing the volume is like we undo the large volume...

    It seems like a paradox to me but it kinda works well in the end
    On the 5 Spot you wouldn't be undoing anything. I think it has been said a few times before in this thread, but when I designed the suspension for this bike I specifically manipulated the leverage ratio to allow for exactly the type of spring rate tunability that we are talking about here, albeit through factory FOX options, not a rider installed shim. (not that there is anything wrong with a shim IMO)

    Going into the Turner project it was no secret that the homer society is made up of more than one incessant tuner, so DT and I really wanted to accommodate that through spring rate adjustment.

    The 5Spot's dw-link is designed to work with the the standard air can (no XV sleeve at all) or the XV sleeve, or the available FOX volume reducers (exactly the same thing as adding a shim, just a factory installed option.) If you are looking for more bottom out support, go to a smaller can. If you are looking for more mid travel support, go with a bigger can. If you are looking for both, add pressure .

    Have fun!

    Dave
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  38. #138
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    I did this mod to my Fox RP23 on my Santa Cruz Butcher yesterday and road it today. All I can say is that it works and didn't cost me anything. I used a 138x27mm shim as my XV can was a lot bigger than the one on the 5 spot. I cut a few shims but I think I have got it right the first time.
    I am now running 10psi less in the shock and it feels good over the small bumps but it ramps up nicely now towards the end of the stroke and not bottoming out it sections that it shouldn't.
    Here's a tip I was struggling to find the right thickness of plastic for the shim and in the end I cut up a old water bottle witch was about 1.3mm and already curved so it sat in the can really well.
    Cheers DGC for putting it up!

  39. #139
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    good to hear

    Quote Originally Posted by Razzer
    I did this mod to my Fox RP23 on my Santa Cruz Butcher yesterday and road it today. All I can say is that it works and didn't cost me anything. I used a 138x27mm shim as my XV can was a lot bigger than the one on the 5 spot. I cut a few shims but I think I have got it right the first time.
    I am now running 10psi less in the shock and it feels good over the small bumps but it ramps up nicely now towards the end of the stroke and not bottoming out it sections that it shouldn't.
    Here's a tip I was struggling to find the right thickness of plastic for the shim and in the end I cut up a old water bottle witch was about 1.3mm and already curved so it sat in the can really well.
    Cheers DGC for putting it up!
    Good to hear it came out well for you. Sounds like a good use for old waterbottles, good thinking.
    OUCH...!!!!!!

  40. #140
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    yes. now i have something i can do to my dhx air!
    <(*-*<) Go Ride (>*-*)>

  41. #141
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  42. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by _dw View Post
    Going into the Turner project it was no secret that the homer society is made up of more than one incessant tuner, so DT and I really wanted to accommodate that through spring rate adjustment.

    More than one? I'd say based on this thread, more than one hundred! Nice work on the stock shock spec sir (if there are ~10,000 out there running w/ out shims) .

  43. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marshall Willanholly View Post
    Bloody hell, look what they are charging! DGC's mod cost a few pennies. Fox is charging $25!

  44. #144
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    oh yeah, velcome to FOX. we are living in world where peace of plastic cost 25 bucks

  45. #145
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    Looks like the Fox kit will allow you to reduce the volume of the standard, low volume air sleeve, if anyone would ever want to do that.

  46. #146
    DGC
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    shim

    Quote Originally Posted by Vespasianus View Post
    Bloody hell, look what they are charging! DGC's mod cost a few pennies. Fox is charging $25!
    I have been doing this mod for many years, ....just a thought, but I wonder where they got the idea from???
    Or is it, that they take 5 years to catch on to a needed change in their air shocks.
    OUCH...!!!!!!

  47. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by DGC View Post
    I have been doing this mod for many years, ....just a thought, but I wonder where they got the idea from???
    Or is it, that they take 5 years to catch on to a needed change in their air shocks.
    they should be giving you a large portion of the profits, like an intellectual property rights deal. maybe if you give them a call & just bring it up real polite-like & all, they'd just say,
    ya, sure, OK
    breezy shade

  48. #148
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    Just picked up a 2010 Spot so have been reading through this thread.

    I like fairly linear suspension and I'm pretty light (170 all geared up). Is this something I should think about doing?

    I guess it would be easy enough to ride it for a while without the mod then consider it. Just wondering if any other lighter riders have notice much difference with this mod.
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  49. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by KRob View Post
    Just picked up a 2010 Spot so have been reading through this thread.

    I like fairly linear suspension and I'm pretty light (170 all geared up). Is this something I should think about doing?

    I guess it would be easy enough to ride it for a while without the mod then consider it. Just wondering if any other lighter riders have notice much difference with this mod.
    Ride the bike w/stock RP23 and see what you think...

    I'd plan on doing the mod. I'm a little lighter than you and had bottoming issues off any drop over 3ft with the stock RP23. Try different size shims until you find your sweet spot.

  50. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyN View Post
    Ride the bike w/stock RP23 and see what you think...

    I'd plan on doing the mod. I'm a little lighter than you and had bottoming issues off any drop over 3ft with the stock RP23. Try different size shims until you find your sweet spot.
    x 2. I'm 150lbs after breakfast and after trialing different shims ended up with the full size DCG shim.
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  51. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by kiwirider View Post
    x 2. I'm 150lbs after breakfast and after trialing different shims ended up with the full size DCG shim.
    You were just using it wrong. Dave Weasel designed it to be perfect in every way. Quit being a bad customer and ride it properly.

  52. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by taletotell View Post
    I've got the 2010 rp23 w/ boost valve and an xv air chamber on my 2010 Diamond Back Mission 2. At recommended sag I can bottom out by rolling fast up a curb without hopping. Boost valve does nothing. Less than recommended sag equals crappy ride. I'm going to try the shim, but I won't mention it to fox if I need to take advantage of the warranty at any point.
    i also got a 2010 mission with RP23 BV XV, did already made the shim mod? what size of plastic did you use?

  53. #153
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    Finally got around to this, I wanted to get plenty of time on the stock setup to feel the bike out. I'm 145lbs and usually run 17mm sag on my 2010 5 Spot w/ XV can RP23, and I very regularly bottom out but want to keep that 17mm sag.
    I used the caps from Edge shaving gel cans, they're 1mm thick and have a curve so you don't have to be exact in the length, they fit snug.
    One thing I noted, especially if you have rear end stiction. The sag must be a control factor that should remain at say 17mm between the trials. To better get accurate sag readings I had to loosen the two pivots that cause the stiction on my 5 Spot, then torque them up again to ride.
    The mod works like a charm, at 26mm there was noticeably more ramp up throughout the curve, not enough compliance for me. Still experimenting but have narrowed it to around a 138mm x 24mm x 1.0mm.
    Great mod. I'm interested in the electrical tape/can recess thing you were doing DGC, if anything came of that.
    Next up is Saar's headset.
    "...like sex with the trail." - Boe

  54. #154
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    I am going to try this mod as I have been experiencing the same issue with my 2011 5 Spot

  55. #155
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    FYI for those experimenting:
    138mm x 26mm x 1.0mm (3588 mm^3 volume reduction) for 17mm sag.
    138mm x 24.6mm x 1.0mm (3394.8 mm^3 volume reduction) for 15mm sag.
    (PSI was 102 and 110 respectively for my weight)

    Both gave the exact same bounce test measurements: 93% of travel
    This 93% of travel on the bounce tests seems to be a good amount of resistance for me, your aims may vary.

    *Bounce test: repeated bouncing using body weight.

    There were many more trials (5 shims total) using 15mm and 17mm sag settings. These two volumes worked well. DGC's preference was a volume reduction of 3240 mm^3, a bit less than these.
    "...like sex with the trail." - Boe

  56. #156
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    Influence of the shock factory tune over DGC modification

    Is somebody considering the factory's tune of the shock as a factor in the equation?
    Every Fox RP23 has it's own tune setting, my 09 Sultan came with a low compression/low rebound tune and I was wondering if I can get the same benefits of the shim using a high compression factory tune shock ??
    I know the shim is a little bit more cheaper than a new shock but ....I am just wondering
    In my workshop, dirty hands is a state of mind

  57. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midle Age Warrior View Post
    Is somebody considering the factory's tune of the shock as a factor in the equation?
    Every Fox RP23 has it's own tune setting, my 09 Sultan came with a low compression/low rebound tune and I was wondering if I can get the same benefits of the shim using a high compression factory tune shock ??
    I know the shim is a little bit more cheaper than a new shock but ....I am just wondering
    The DGC mod primarily has an effect on spring rate (bottom out resistance) and little effect on compression.
    So if you're looking to switch to a high compression tune on the Sultan this will not do it.
    Or do you want to do the DGC mod to a high compression shock? If it has a large air can you could.
    Last edited by stumblemumble; 07-14-2011 at 12:16 PM.
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  58. #158
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    One option is, check out Kidwoo's mods to the rp23 in post #40 here: Getting an RP23 more progressive
    Apparently Fox makes shims for the main air chamber on low volume shocks.
    "...like sex with the trail." - Boe

  59. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by stumblemumble View Post
    The DGC mod primarily has an effect on spring rate (bottom out resistance) and little effect on compression.
    So if you're looking to switch to a high compression tune on the Sultan this will not do it.
    Or do you want to do the DGC mod to a high compression shock? If it has a large air can you could.
    Please help me here, is not the compression the responsable to increase the resistance at the end of the shock travel, making it not to linear ?? so a higher compression rate means more ramp up, or is the compression affecting the whole travel??
    In my workshop, dirty hands is a state of mind

  60. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midle Age Warrior View Post
    Please help me here, is not the compression the responsable to increase the resistance at the end of the shock travel, making it not to linear ?? so a higher compression rate means more ramp up, or is the compression affecting the whole travel??
    I'm no guru so apologies if I get corrected, but the compression damping affects the whole range of travel, so upping compression will increase resistance at the end of the travel but also everywhere else even if preload (sag) were to remain the same.
    Frame suspension design plays a large role in how progressive a suspension is. DW Turners have a frame suspension design which give a mildly progressive rate, more so than a DW Mojo which has a more linear rate.
    As evident by the graphs in this thread the DGC mod does mildly affect compression damping (the whole curve is shifted) but gives more compression damping at the end (bottom out resistance)
    I tried a handful of shims and the affect on the end travel is much greater than the affect on the rest of the travel, so you retain most all small/mid bump compliance while gaining bottom out resistance.
    "...like sex with the trail." - Boe

  61. #161
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    You're mixing compression damping and spring rate in the last bit. Fixed:
    Quote Originally Posted by stumblemumble View Post
    As evident by the graphs in this thread the DGC mod does mildly affect the whole spring rate curve but gives more spring rate ramp up at the end (bottom out resistance)
    Comment: spring rate is a position sensitive force, while compression (and rebound) damping is a speed sensitive force.

  62. #162
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    Float R mods

    Hi, firstly, would like to introduce myself as a troubled cyclist with a dysfunctional air can

    I bought a Haro Porter Expert after becoming a little old to ride DH on my Bullit, can't be taking so much injury time from work anymore!

    The Porter comes with a Float R shock, my first ever air shock. Since it is a slopestlye bike, I figured it would be able to take some hits, but I have the chamber pumped up to 250psi and it is jarring on small bumps and trail, then blows through travel on the big hits.

    I was about to buy a coil shock, with which I have many years of experience and love the feel, then I saw this thread.

    Has anyone tried this with a Float R yet?

    Would be very grateful for any tips on thickness and length or strip....Im a heavy guy at 13.5 stone/ 87ish kg and ride aggressively (as used to riding DH).

    Cheers!

  63. #163
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    Tested this mod the other day. Unfortunately the strip of plastic I had was a bit thin, therefor the volume reduction got a bit to small. But despite a to small volume reduction I definitely got a better bottom out resistance. I was amazed how simple the mod was though, I have newer pulled my shock apart before, so I was a bit hesitate, but it was dead simple! Thanks a lot DGC!

  64. #164
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    nothing much

    Quote Originally Posted by stumblemumble View Post
    Finally got around to this, I wanted to get plenty of time on the stock setup to feel the bike out. I'm 145lbs and usually run 17mm sag on my 2010 5 Spot w/ XV can RP23, and I very regularly bottom out but want to keep that 17mm sag.
    I used the caps from Edge shaving gel cans, they're 1mm thick and have a curve so you don't have to be exact in the length, they fit snug.
    One thing I noted, especially if you have rear end stiction. The sag must be a control factor that should remain at say 17mm between the trials. To better get accurate sag readings I had to loosen the two pivots that cause the stiction on my 5 Spot, then torque them up again to ride.
    The mod works like a charm, at 26mm there was noticeably more ramp up throughout the curve, not enough compliance for me. Still experimenting but have narrowed it to around a 138mm x 24mm x 1.0mm.
    Great mod. I'm interested in the electrical tape/can recess thing you were doing DGC, if anything came of that.
    Next up is Saar's headset.
    The electrical tape thing was to take up a bit more space at the end of the air can where that 1/4 inch area had a little more space. Thing is, I have seen some Fox air cans without that recess space. I thought it might just add a little more late stroke ramp on the ones having the recess space.....not really.
    I will say this about the mod I started in the garage way back in or around 2004/2005.......Fox took forever to make their shims you can buy as a kit of like 3 sizes, killer price.....only 24 bux. Hell, mine has cost the exact same in 8 years messing with it..........ZERO....!!!!!!
    OUCH...!!!!!!

  65. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by DGC View Post
    T....Fox took forever to make their shims you can buy as a kit of like 3 sizes, killer price.....only 24 bux.
    Where can I buy this kit? I don't see it on the Fox site.

    I've made a couple of these shims myself but they're not elegant and don't seem to be doing the trick for me. Still bottoming pretty easily though it has helped some.

    Currently running a .9 thick 30mm wide, 137mm long shim which seems only a tiny bit better than the 1mm x 24mm x 137 that I tried first.
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  66. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by KRob View Post
    Where can I buy this kit? I don't see it on the Fox site.

    I've made a couple of these shims myself but they're not elegant and don't seem to be doing the trick for me. Still bottoming pretty easily though it has helped some.

    Currently running a .9 thick 30mm wide, 137mm long shim which seems only a tiny bit better than the 1mm x 24mm x 137 that I tried first.
    Do the math, their only a tiny bit different because they're almost identical in volume. Try a 1mm x 30 x137.
    "...like sex with the trail." - Boe

  67. #167
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    from me

    Quote Originally Posted by KRob View Post
    Where can I buy this kit? I don't see it on the Fox site.

    I've made a couple of these shims myself but they're not elegant and don't seem to be doing the trick for me. Still bottoming pretty easily though it has helped some.

    Currently running a .9 thick 30mm wide, 137mm long shim which seems only a tiny bit better than the 1mm x 24mm x 137 that I tried first.
    Just send me your mailing addy and I will make and send you a shim to try. Send me a PM and give me an address I can mail a small envelope to via USPS.
    OUCH...!!!!!!

  68. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by stumblemumble View Post
    Do the math, their only a tiny bit different because they're almost identical in volume. Try a 1mm x 30 x137.
    Edit: If I'm doing the math right....(thickness x width x length):
    My first shim should have a volume reduction of 3288 mm3 (1 x 24 x 137)
    Second one should have a volume reduction of 3699 mm3 (.9 x 30 x 137)

    Right?
    Last edited by KRob; 10-09-2011 at 11:14 PM.
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  69. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by DGC View Post
    Just send me your mailing addy and I will make and send you a shim to try. Send me a PM and give me an address I can mail a small envelope to via USPS.

    Really? Thanks DGC. I appreciate the offer. PM sent.
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  70. #170
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    shim sent

    Quote Originally Posted by KRob View Post
    Really? Thanks DGC. I appreciate the offer. PM sent.
    Shim in the mail coming your way, you will be getting a 1.3mm x 31mm x 137mm in a day or so. I think you will find it to help you out more in the bottom out control area a bit better than the one you have in there.
    OUCH...!!!!!!

  71. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by DGC View Post
    Shim in the mail coming your way, you will be getting a 1.3mm x 31mm x 137mm in a day or so. I think you will find it to help you out more in the bottom out control area a bit better than the one you have in there.
    Hey DGC, is there a place online you can recommend for getting the shim material?

  72. #172
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    Ski shops

    Quote Originally Posted by LncNuvue View Post
    Hey DGC, is there a place online you can recommend for getting the shim material?
    Ski shops are your best bet. I get my material from Sun Valley Ski Tool company and Spirakut. Both are ski accessory and tool companies. As far as I know, neither do online retail sales. On SVST's site they do show small sheets of the material. After searching a bit I never found any online ski shop doing the sheets. Only the pre cut pieces which you don't want.Most shops still use the sheets from time to time so just ask them for it. It does come in like 3 different thicknesses, If you find a shop with some, just check out the thickness closely.
    OUCH...!!!!!!

  73. #173
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    Is the lack of progressiveness a design issues or a shock issue?

  74. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaybo View Post
    Is the lack of progressiveness a design issues or a shock issue?
    Depends on which way you want to look at it. Which way do you want to look at it?
    "...like sex with the trail." - Boe

  75. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaybo View Post
    Is the lack of progressiveness a design issues or a shock issue?
    One is blasphemy, the other is not _dw's fault.

  76. #176
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    I know Turner is above reproach but a bike frame that blows through it travel would get killed if it was a Trek. I love my Turner but my RP3 does need some more progressiveness.

  77. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaybo View Post
    I know Turner is above reproach but a bike frame that blows through it travel would get killed if it was a Trek. I love my Turner but my RP3 does need some more progressiveness.
    So...rather than do the free mod you just want to sit and b!tc# about it?

    I agree that it needs more progressiveness, why Turner went with that tune I don't know. If I had to buy a new shock I'd be pissed, but it's a free and easy fix. So why would anyone complain?
    "...like sex with the trail." - Boe

  78. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by stumblemumble View Post
    So...rather than do the free mod you just want to sit and b!tc# about it?

    I agree that it needs more progressiveness, why Turner went with that tune I don't know. If I had to buy a new shock I'd be pissed, but it's a free and easy fix. So why would anyone complain?
    Just to complain?

  79. #179
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    The reason you ask such a question is because it is a natural question--particularly for a mega expensive frame. A shim is pretty mickey mouse...don't you think?

  80. #180
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    It may be Mickey Mouse, but it beats paying $24 for Fox's shim kit. I'm sure Fox didn't made this kit specifically for Turners; there are other bikes/riders out there that can benefit from this kit. Check out some of the other manufacturer forums, Turner's not the only one with this issue.

  81. #181
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    I don't think it's Mickey Mouse. You're tuning the shock, just like changing damper fluid viscosity or altering shims.
    If by MM you mean using household plastic instead of a kit, I'd say it's more Macgyver than Mickey.
    "...like sex with the trail." - Boe

  82. #182
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    What's wrong with Mickey Mouse? Minnie Mouse always has a sparkle in her eye.
    A green bird with a red body. We could look it up in a book. Or we could look up

  83. #183
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    Good answer

    Quote Originally Posted by stumblemumble View Post
    I don't think it's Mickey Mouse. You're tuning the shock, just like changing damper fluid viscosity or altering shims.
    If by MM you mean using household plastic instead of a kit, I'd say it's more Macgyver than Mickey.
    So more of a tuning deal instead of a fix. I like it! My 5 Spot is run stock. Hmm. What am I missing?

  84. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaybo View Post
    So more of a tuning deal instead of a fix. I like it! My 5 Spot is run stock. Hmm. What am I missing?
    Cut yourself a few shims! Tuning is half the fun!

  85. #185
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    Fox Float Spacer Kits - was told by email to either order thru your LBS or call 800-369-7469 x4801.
    I've got a kit on the way.

  86. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaybo View Post
    The reason you ask such a question is because it is a natural question--particularly for a mega expensive frame. A shim is pretty mickey mouse...don't you think?
    I think stuffing it with lint or wood chips would be more mickey mouse. Inserting home made plastic shims is more of a backyard mechanic approach, eventually mimicked by the manufacturer themselves. They just changed where it's placed to not be completely obvious.

    Currently trying the mod on my Mojo HD with Kashima RP23. Rider weight ~160 geared up.

  87. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by DGC View Post
    Shim in the mail coming your way, you will be getting a 1.3mm x 31mm x 137mm in a day or so. I think you will find it to help you out more in the bottom out control area a bit better than the one you have in there.
    Finally got this shim installed. Not sure why I put it off. It only takes a few minutes.

    At the same air pressure I was running with the last shim it's getting a bit less sag (~15mm) but I rode it like that anyway today. Fast trail with rough, semi-rocky surface the rear wheel tracked nicely and hugged the ground not skipping around at all. It literally just disappeared under me. The only downside was that some mid-stroke harshness on my fork was more noticeable now.

    I haven't had the chance to try any drops yet, but some small fast ledges and abrupt g-outs that used to bottom it did not.

    Pleased with it so far. This weekend I'll get up and try the 2-4 foot drops that were giving the rearend trouble before.

    Small bumps and square edges on slow climbing felt a bit more noticeable but I think that will improve as I decrease the air pressure to increase sag to 17mm.

    Thanks again Dave. I'll update after this weekend.
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  88. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim-H View Post
    I think stuffing it with lint or wood chips would be more mickey mouse. Inserting home made plastic shims is more of a backyard mechanic approach, eventually mimicked by the manufacturer themselves. They just changed where it's placed to not be completely obvious.

    Currently trying the mod on my Mojo HD with Kashima RP23. Rider weight ~160 geared up.
    Worked perfect for me. ran a 4ft drop today and was left with room to travel ~8mm left from the band to the end of the shaft. Running enough sag to be plush on the trail.

    Running the original 135x20x1.2
    Last edited by Tim-H; 10-19-2011 at 10:08 PM.

  89. #189
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    Thanks for this OP/guys.

    I've been running more air than ideal in my 5spot as I have a offset bushing fitted in the lower shock and pre-fitting the bushing I was regularly blowing the sag ring off the bottom of the shock/using all the travel.

    Thing is I actually liked having just 150psi in the RP23 even though I'm 210lb/97kg in weight.

    Am I 'wrong'? The shock felt 'right' like this. (pro pedal at 1).


    BTW - Im struggling to find the ski plastic material here in the UK - does anyone have some spare or point me to a shop where you got some/can get some from as well?

    Thank you.

  90. #190
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    This should definitely be stickied.

  91. #191
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    Yes I agree... - PAGING MODERATORS... WHY NOT MAKE THIS THREAD A STICKY?! This DGC shim thing works!!!

  92. #192
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    This Fox mod is already in place on the 2011 Spots from Blue Sky. Keep this in mind if you are thinking about DGC's mod.

  93. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by Horacek View Post
    Thanks for this OP/guys.

    I've been running more air than ideal in my 5spot as I have a offset bushing fitted in the lower shock and pre-fitting the bushing I was regularly blowing the sag ring off the bottom of the shock/using all the travel.

    Thing is I actually liked having just 150psi in the RP23 even though I'm 210lb/97kg in weight.

    Am I 'wrong'? The shock felt 'right' like this. (pro pedal at 1).


    BTW - Im struggling to find the ski plastic material here in the UK - does anyone have some spare or point me to a shop where you got some/can get some from as well?

    Thank you.
    It all depends how you ride. I still think that you should use most your travel on most of your rides.

    For shimming, I used plastic from a CD spindle top. I don't know the width but I used something that was 135mm long and 20 mm wide. Your 2011 may already have a shim in it so keep that in mind when doing the DGC mod.

    Also, I am also close to 210 lbs and running 200 psi and get close to 20mm sag. This is with pp off.

  94. #194
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    Ah, my 2011 is a warranty replacement for a 2010. They swapped the 2010 shock over.

  95. #195
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    Do you typically use a lower volume shim if you're lighter and a larger one if you are heavier? I'd like to try this out and want to figure out a good range of shims to cut.

    By the way, I think it's great that the suspension is perhaps a bit on the linear side, it sounds very easy to do the shim mod, seems like it would be expensive to make a suspension more linear, instead more progressive. Perhaps a different shock would be needed, or have Push fiddle with it.

    Viva adjustability!
    Jim
    Last edited by James Lee; 11-28-2011 at 01:31 AM.

  96. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Lee View Post
    Do you typically use a lower volume shim if you're lighter and a larger one if you are heavier? I'd like to try this out and want to figure out a good range of shims to cut.

    By the way, I think it's great that the suspension is perhaps a bit on the linear side, it sounds very easy to do the shim mod, seems like it would be expensive to make a suspension more linear, instead more progressive. Perhaps a different shock would be needed, or have Push fiddle with it.

    Viva adjustability!
    Jim
    Kinda. I think DGC is about 190 so I used his basic size as a starting point. I would make a bunch of shims (135 X 1.8 to 135X 2.5) and see how I like each one. Really easy to do so might as well try different sizes.

  97. #197
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    Well, I just tried this mod and it really works so great!

    I am 175lbs geared on, ride an Ibis Mojo SL with a high volume RP23, and do aggressive trail riding, with lots of drops and jumps. I always felt that the suspension was so linear, that I could easily bottom out on the trail, using the correct sag (30%).
    If I tried to increase the pressure, than the sag was reduced and the small bump sensitivity became horrible.

    After read this tread, I got an old water bottle, and cut it down in 4 strips (measures in mm)
    - 135 X 20
    - 135 X 23
    - 135 X 25
    - 135 X 27
    The plastic water bottle that we carry on our bikes, are exactly 1,2mm thick, and it fits just perfect in the shock! So you don't need to go after something else to use as a shim. (Haven't tried the CD plastic lead though).

    I first installed the 135X20 shim, as DGC stated that it's the one who best fit his bike. Set the sag at 30%, using 5psi less than before, and went to the trail.
    The difference was not so perceivable as I was expecting, and I was still bottoming out quite easily. I have the felling that it has to do with differences in suspension design from the Turner to the Mojo; specially because the Mojo uses a longer shock (7,875X2,00) than the Turner (7,5X2,00).

    Came back home and changed for a wider shim. The logical sequence is that I should go with the 23mm wide, but as the result was far from the expected, I decided to go with the 25mm wide instead.
    Sunday morning was rainy, and the trails were very muddy, so I went for a small loop near my house to check the results.
    Although I cannot consider this loop as a proper trail, I already could felt the shock working very different now. I was running 30% sag with 15lbs less, which greatly improved the small bump sensitivity. I was jumping some 3 foot high benches and was not bottoming out so hard; in some cases, I not even got full travel.
    I was so impressive with the improvement on the shock, it is working a lot better now, on a more progressive form.
    I want to test it on a proper trail, with lot of rock gardens and roots, to see how it will work on the mid travel, but so far, so good.
    And I still have the option to reduce it to 23mm if I think it's to much progressive....

    IMO, if you are having problems of bottoming out on a high volume shock, you should definitely give it a try. I am far from being a experienced bike mechanic, and went through it very easily; it really is an easy task!
    The results are quite amazing...

    DGC, thank you for this post!

    Cheers,

  98. #198
    DGC
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    test

    Quote Originally Posted by Edu Guilhon View Post
    Well, I just tried this mod and it really works so great!

    I am 175lbs geared on, ride an Ibis Mojo SL with a high volume RP23, and do aggressive trail riding, with lots of drops and jumps. I always felt that the suspension was so linear, that I could easily bottom out on the trail, using the correct sag (30%).
    If I tried to increase the pressure, than the sag was reduced and the small bump sensitivity became horrible.

    After read this tread, I got an old water bottle, and cut it down in 4 strips (measures in mm)
    - 135 X 20
    - 135 X 23
    - 135 X 25
    - 135 X 27
    The plastic water bottle that we carry on our bikes, are exactly 1,2mm thick, and it fits just perfect in the shock! So you don't need to go after something else to use as a shim. (Haven't tried the CD plastic lead though).

    I first installed the 135X20 shim, as DGC stated that it's the one who best fit his bike. Set the sag at 30%, using 5psi less than before, and went to the trail.
    The difference was not so perceivable as I was expecting, and I was still bottoming out quite easily. I have the felling that it has to do with differences in suspension design from the Turner to the Mojo; specially because the Mojo uses a longer shock (7,875X2,00) than the Turner (7,5X2,00).

    Came back home and changed for a wider shim. The logical sequence is that I should go with the 23mm wide, but as the result was far from the expected, I decided to go with the 25mm wide instead.
    Sunday morning was rainy, and the trails were very muddy, so I went for a small loop near my house to check the results.
    Although I cannot consider this loop as a proper trail, I already could felt the shock working very different now. I was running 30% sag with 15lbs less, which greatly improved the small bump sensitivity. I was jumping some 3 foot high benches and was not bottoming out so hard; in some cases, I not even got full travel.
    I was so impressive with the improvement on the shock, it is working a lot better now, on a more progressive form.
    I want to test it on a proper trail, with lot of rock gardens and roots, to see how it will work on the mid travel, but so far, so good.
    And I still have the option to reduce it to 23mm if I think it's to much progressive....

    IMO, if you are having problems of bottoming out on a high volume shock, you should definitely give it a try. I am far from being a experienced bike mechanic, and went through it very easily; it really is an easy task!
    The results are quite amazing...

    DGC, thank you for this post!

    Cheers,
    Take some time riding to figure out what works for you. Good to hear you like what the shim is doing for you.

    DGC.
    OUCH...!!!!!!

  99. #199
    Just roll it......
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    DGC, a few of the new Chilcotin owners have also been playing with your shim on the rp23's that came stock on those bikes. The XV air can seems slightly too big for some of the owners' style.

    I'm messing around with the Fox shims, but same idea.

    Thanks dude!
    EB

  100. #200
    Now with flavor!!
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    Just in case anyone is wondering........If you don't have a small volume air can or don't have access to ptex, you can fill up the external sleeve with slick honey and it works the same way.

    I've got a specialized sx that was WAY too linear and that's something I did with one of the shocks I have for it.

    Just make sure you don't cover up the exchange hole.
    STRAVA: Enabling dorks everywhere to get trails shut down........ all for the sake of a race on the internet.

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