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  1. #1
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    DT have you thought about a carbon 5 Spot?

    DT what are your thoughts on a carbon 5 spot?
    Ta

  2. #2
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    Where would Turner get the know-how from? Outsource the frames? That way, you run the risk of becoming yet another Tawanese carbon frame pusher.

  3. #3
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    If Turner produces an overseas carbon frame, I wouldn't describe them as yet another Taiwanese carbon frame pusher.

  4. #4
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    I was under the impression that off shore carbon manufacturing was preferable, not necessarily only for cost savings but because the technology is actually better? Did I read that somewhere or just make it up??

    Edit: Not sure if this topic has been beat to death or not...hope it doesn't bring a sh!tstorm

  5. #5
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    Not again...

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by toons101
    If Turner produces an overseas carbon frame, I wouldn't describe them as yet another Taiwanese carbon frame pusher.
    That's why I seaid that you'd run the risk of doing so. Look at Kona, they have a carbon frame that is straight from the catalog of some Taiwanese firm.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by LncNuvue
    Not again...
    Thank you

  8. #8
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    ?

    Personally or professionally?

    Personally I want carbon. I am a geek and carbon is the latest and probably last frontier of mountain bike material, I am certain it will be the norm in DH bikes in the future and everything in between. I was riding steel when alu was introduced, I then spent a great deal of time on Ti hardtails as alu was taking over the market, challenges were dealt with and alu exploded for several years as the top choice in all things bicycle. But now my Ridley road bike is carbon, my skis and ski poles are full of the stuff and I am sure if I roam around the garage I will find even more stuff that is made with a composite.

    Professionally it will have to happen. I have no project started, but I would be lying to say I have not done a lot of talking to experts on this subject. The big hurdle is cost. I consulted with 2 US companies and there is no way it can be done in the US and be competitive. IF, mountain bikers would pay what roadies and triathletes do for frames then yes it 'could' be done. But we mountainbikers won't and all the current products on the market from the monsters like Specialized all the way down to smaller companies like Ibis have set the price that is acceptable by you, the riders. Like it or not, the U.S. Flag cannot fly on a composite bike and sell enough to pay for the huge tooling and engineering costs. Emotionally it is tough to make a leap of this distance even without a history of import bashing and green manufacturing spewing. The current models are selling well and the DHR will rock that world. I have a couple more models planned for the near future made in USA out of alu so for now I keep on keeping on, but I know in my gut that I am skirting the inevitable.

    DT

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    Very well stated. Makes sense, I am working on assignment in Singapore, training manufacturing that has been outsourced from Texas. I lost my old job to it, but gained this one because of it. Theres a huge pool of highly skilled labor for a very low price and state of the art manufacturing facilities on the cheap. I wish this was not this way, but for now it is. A company must do what it takes to compete..

    So whats the two new models??

    db

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes
    I have a couple more models planned for the near future made in USA out of alu
    DT
    Tease

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes
    ...I have not done a lot of talking to experts on this subject...
    I am happy to hear you are still in contact with cactuscorn

  12. #12
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    I never understand bashing Taiwan quality - those guys are some of the most talented frame manufacturers on the planet. As though they don't have a right to compete . Bring on the carbon
    When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. ~H.G. Wells

  13. #13
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    Bit of both = you answered my question

    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes
    Personally or professionally?

    Personally I want carbon. I am a geek and carbon is the latest and probably last frontier of mountain bike material, I am certain it will be the norm in DH bikes in the future and everything in between. I was riding steel when alu was introduced, I then spent a great deal of time on Ti hardtails as alu was taking over the market, challenges were dealt with and alu exploded for several years as the top choice in all things bicycle. But now my Ridley road bike is carbon, my skis and ski poles are full of the stuff and I am sure if I roam around the garage I will find even more stuff that is made with a composite.

    Professionally it will have to happen. I have no project started, but I would be lying to say I have not done a lot of talking to experts on this subject. The big hurdle is cost. I consulted with 2 US companies and there is no way it can be done in the US and be competitive. IF, mountain bikers would pay what roadies and triathletes do for frames then yes it 'could' be done. But we mountainbikers won't and all the current products on the market from the monsters like Specialized all the way down to smaller companies like Ibis have set the price that is acceptable by you, the riders. Like it or not, the U.S. Flag cannot fly on a composite bike and sell enough to pay for the huge tooling and engineering costs. Emotionally it is tough to make a leap of this distance even without a history of import bashing and green manufacturing spewing. The current models are selling well and the DHR will rock that world. I have a couple more models planned for the near future made in USA out of alu so for now I keep on keeping on, but I know in my gut that I am skirting the inevitable.

    DT
    I was viewing your profile to see the latest instalment on the RFX, when I saw you browsing a thread about carbon frames.

    Then I thought, hmm carbon 5 spot, I wonder how that would ride. I absolutely love my
    DW 5 Spot, itís running so sweet at the mo, and Iím not surprised its selling well, the bike is quality.

    Iíve ridden a Mojo and I can categorically state that it doesnít ride like a turner, it may have the DW link in common, but for me thatís it. Also I've ridden a Specialized Carbon Enduro; again itís no Turner. What I did like about the Enduro & Mojo was the weight, so personally Iíd love to ride a carbon DW 5 spot, so in the future that might be possible

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by cutthroat
    I never understand bashing Taiwan quality - those guys are some of the most talented frame manufacturers on the planet. As though they don't have a right to compete . Bring on the carbon
    +1

    It's what I'm waiting for....in 29er flava
    Life....the original terminal illness

  15. #15
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    IF, mountain bikers would pay what roadies and triathletes do for frames then yes it 'could' be done.
    If i show a customer a carbon road frame for $4000.00 they nod, if I show them a hand made mtn. frame with multiple machined parts and a $450.00 shock for $2500.00 their eyes bug out. Go figure!

  16. #16
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    Do It

    Ever had any fun times when you and that special lady-friend(s)- er, uh, maybe not a lady- "tried something new"? Just be sure to have a safety word...

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes
    Personally or professionally?

    Personally I want carbon. I am a geek and carbon is the latest and probably last frontier of mountain bike material, I am certain it will be the norm in DH bikes in the future and everything in between. I was riding steel when alu was introduced, I then spent a great deal of time on Ti hardtails as alu was taking over the market, challenges were dealt with and alu exploded for several years as the top choice in all things bicycle. But now my Ridley road bike is carbon, my skis and ski poles are full of the stuff and I am sure if I roam around the garage I will find even more stuff that is made with a composite.

    Professionally it will have to happen. I have no project started, but I would be lying to say I have not done a lot of talking to experts on this subject. The big hurdle is cost. I consulted with 2 US companies and there is no way it can be done in the US and be competitive. IF, mountain bikers would pay what roadies and triathletes do for frames then yes it 'could' be done. But we mountainbikers won't and all the current products on the market from the monsters like Specialized all the way down to smaller companies like Ibis have set the price that is acceptable by you, the riders. Like it or not, the U.S. Flag cannot fly on a composite bike and sell enough to pay for the huge tooling and engineering costs. Emotionally it is tough to make a leap of this distance even without a history of import bashing and green manufacturing spewing. The current models are selling well and the DHR will rock that world. I have a couple more models planned for the near future made in USA out of alu so for now I keep on keeping on, but I know in my gut that I am skirting the inevitable.

    DT
    hey Dave

    I don]t have your email, and can't PM you it seems, so I'll ask here.

    Can I quote this for an article I am working on? Its about how carbon will affect the average rider, and this is a great answer.

    Thanks

    jeff@dropmachine.com
    Stuff.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel
    +1

    It's what I'm waiting for....in 29er flava
    please don't say "flava"

    thanks in advance

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by velo bum
    IF, mountain bikers would pay what roadies and triathletes do for frames then yes it 'could' be done.
    If i show a customer a carbon road frame for $4000.00 they nod, if I show them a hand made mtn. frame with multiple machined parts and a $450.00 shock for $2500.00 their eyes bug out. Go figure!
    my take on roadie stuff versus mtn stuff is this - i have a pinarello frame and campy record parts - but after 4000 miles all i have had to do is swap out some shifter cables, adjust the rear derailleur and clean it occasionally. versus on my mtn bike i seem to break a brake lever, ding a downtube, break a tooth off a chan ring, dent a rim, or even crack a chain stay or scratch up a stanchion fairly regularly. in other words the mtn stuff won't last like roadie stuff does...so i am more prepared to spend the money on road stuff since i get a better roi...i buy x9 and xt level parts on a mtn bike since i crash too much! i also buy turner frames despite them being expensive because of their great customer service / warranty / crash replacmeent policy....turner is about the only company i would ever buy a used frmae form as they transfer warranty....

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Anti Bling
    please don't say "flava"

    thanks in advance
    only if you remove the word "Bling" from your username
    Life....the original terminal illness

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by wilks
    my take on roadie stuff versus mtn stuff is this - i have a pinarello frame and campy record parts - but after 4000 miles all i have had to do is swap out some shifter cables, adjust the rear derailleur and clean it occasionally. versus on my mtn bike i seem to break a brake lever, ding a downtube, break a tooth off a chan ring, dent a rim, or even crack a chain stay or scratch up a stanchion fairly regularly. in other words the mtn stuff won't last like roadie stuff does...so i am more prepared to spend the money on road stuff since i get a better roi...i buy x9 and xt level parts on a mtn bike since i crash too much! i also buy turner frames despite them being expensive because of their great customer service / warranty / crash replacmeent policy....turner is about the only company i would ever buy a used frmae form as they transfer warranty....
    Bingo. I have a carbon road bike that's 6 years old and other than replacing chains and cables it's as good as it was when it was new. I can justify paying a lot for a nice road bike since I know it's a long term investment. After 3-4 years my MTB frames look like they've been through a war.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by velo bum
    If i show a customer a carbon road frame for $4000.00 they nod, if I show them a hand made mtn. frame with multiple machined parts and a $450.00 shock for $2500.00 their eyes bug out. Go figure!

    Not surprising.......you see a lot more Hummers all decked out and parked at private golf courses than you do at 4 wheel off road events as well ! Go figure ! TIG.
    " A way to a deep freedom " - Tarja

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes
    I consulted with 2 US companies and there is no way it can be done in the US and be competitive.
    Just a couple comments there...Trek seems to get a pretty good take-rate on their US-made OCLV frames even tho they are on the pricey side of the range. Also, until the new money-grubbing management took over and decided higher margins were required, Cannondale was successful making composite frames in the US and selling complete bikes in the ~5k range.

    Turner has a better brand name than either Trek or C'dale and should be able to command an even higher premium in the market.
    whatever...

  24. #24
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    If Turner goes carbon, it has to have class-leading impact resistance. Then it will be a winner and sway tastes. Also, carbon is repairable, so it looks like those services will be able to hook us up.

    I bump into a lot of things and crash, and unless they can come up with impact resistance like the aviation and auto industry has, it will be out for me. Too bad costs and grams prevent this in bike applications in many cases. However, I still see old school late 90's GT's and Proflex/K2's from time to time in their different types of carbon.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by steadite
    Just a couple comments there...Trek seems to get a pretty good take-rate on their US-made OCLV frames even tho they are on the pricey side of the range. Also, until the new money-grubbing management took over and decided higher margins were required, Cannondale was successful making composite frames in the US and selling complete bikes in the ~5k range.

    Turner has a better brand name than either Trek or C'dale and should be able to command an even higher premium in the market.

    But Trek and Cannondale would have a higher quantity made and would get a better price because of that.

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