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  1. #1
    gravity curmudgeon
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    Drivetrain, every now and then

    Every now and then in slow speed technical hammer time situations I get some kind of chain/drivetrain slippage on my 5spot. It only seems to happen if I briefly stop pedaling and then hammer. If I keep some pedal movement, it doesn't happen. I knew I needed new chainrings (worn teeth, bent teeth, missing teeth) and figured it was time for a new chain and cassette. I changed out all three. But then yesterday I had it happen again while climbing a double log stair section. The chain does not come off. I went back and rode it again with no slippage. I half suspect my King rear hub (based on the feel and sound), although that doesn't seem possible. Any ideas? In all other situations, the drivetrain is flawless -- just sometimes (not every time) something slips.

    XT cassette (new)
    XT cranks w/ new blackburn rings
    X9 rear der
    PC-991 chain (new)
    King rear hub

  2. #2
    mtbr member
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    Some other possibilities

    -Bent derailleur hangar
    -Derailleur cable housing too long or short
    -Damaged or worn out derailleur

  3. #3
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    Add:

    -stiff link in chain
    -slipping freehub

  4. #4
    TLL
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    So the chain is not slipping, or forcing you into a taller gear?
    Hadley rear hub service here and here.

  5. #5
    Weapon of Choice
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    Quote Originally Posted by cowdog
    Every now and then in slow speed technical hammer time situations I get some kind of chain/drivetrain slippage on my 5spot. It only seems to happen if I briefly stop pedaling and then hammer. If I keep some pedal movement, it doesn't happen. I knew I needed new chainrings (worn teeth, bent teeth, missing teeth) and figured it was time for a new chain and cassette. I changed out all three. But then yesterday I had it happen again while climbing a double log stair section. The chain does not come off. I went back and rode it again with no slippage. I half suspect my King rear hub (based on the feel and sound), although that doesn't seem possible. Any ideas? In all other situations, the drivetrain is flawless -- just sometimes (not every time) something slips.

    XT cassette (new)
    XT cranks w/ new blackburn rings
    X9 rear der
    PC-991 chain (new)
    King rear hub


    Same thing happened to me and I thought for sure it was my chainring; some of the teeth were worn down by half. So I changed replaced it and sure enough it still skips at times. It doesn't happen much but on hard pedaling uphill etc. My next bet is derailer hanger slightly bent.

    Super Unknown

  6. #6
    trail fairy
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    Quote Originally Posted by cowdog
    -- just sometimes (not every time) something slips.

    XT cassette (new)
    XT cranks w/ new blackburn rings
    X9 rear der
    PC-991 chain (new)
    King rear hub
    Been saying it for years, don't mix but no one listens

    Why don't you use an Shimano chain!

    There are slight tolerence differences, I know some will say otherwise, if it was another hub I'd say yer pawls maybe on the way out, but other than incorrect chain length Im sure it is this MnM you guys persist with!

    Apologies CD it just rarks me, Im not just saying this cause Im a Sram man Ive said for years now, choose one or the other, I don't understand at all why you mix n match, I proved this theory many times and solved others similar issues with one simple fix, all or nothing!

    Makes no sense to me..

    good luck CD..
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  7. #7
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    Never had a problem mixing and matching, though now I'm on KMC z9000 chains. I don't think I'll ever go back to SRAM. Best shifting, feeling, and I never break them.

  8. #8
    illiterate or intoxicated
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    The only "slippage" I have experienced was under maximum power on steep grades. The culprit was my Hope XC rear hub. After disassembling the hub, finding metal shavings, and talking to the guys at Hope, it was determined that the pawls in the freewheel were slipping. Hope exchanged the XC hub for a Pro II. (Great customer service) No slippage since.

    Please let us know what you discover.
    "One often finds their destiny on the road taken to avoid it" - Master Ugway

  9. #9
    trail fairy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    Never had a problem mixing and matching, though now I'm on KMC z9000 chains. I don't think I'll ever go back to SRAM. Best shifting, feeling, and I never break them.
    Yeah but which way were you swinging

    WH good points I concur except except CDs running a King [ring drive no pawls], not to say something may not be up with the hub which I think is what youre saying! Ive never had slippage with a King before though!
    Anythings possible but I suspect if CD changes to a Shimano chain gets the length right he should be good to go!

    How are ya jockey wheels CD shouldn't be the iss since its under presure at slow speeds it should be one of the other issues
    Just riding a muddy trail. . ..

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  10. #10
    Natl. Champ DH Poser/Hack
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    my bet is a rare king hub issue or a worn r der. i know its been said before but hey, ive got nuthin better to do.

    and ta, i had more issues runnin a all shimano drivetrain than i ever did with my sachs and sram chains. same with sram bits and a shimano chain. if ya ask me, they just dont work as well but i realize some dig em and thats cool.
    No, I'm NOT back!

  11. #11
    trail fairy
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    Quote Originally Posted by cactuscorn

    and ta, i had more issues runnin a all shimano drivetrain than i ever did with my sachs and sram chains. same with sram bits and a shimano chain. if ya ask me, they just dont work as well but i realize some dig em and thats cool.
    Dude I hear ya hats why I run all sram, but hes already bought a new cassette and Shimano parts except the chain and there are slight tolerence differences, Shimano does this deliberately, it may not be his problem but it is there! Like you I had many frustrations with this exact issue on mine and others bikes, never since we all converted, you can go ther other way as sram is more tolerant but not Sram with Shimano omo its what I found!

    You may be right, but its the least expensive option to try

    What year X9 is it the pre 07s could develop allot of play in the JC, if thats what yer thinking otherwise I can't see how it could do that in those situations, it dosen't sound like its unders shifts, its when CD stops pedaling then re-engages, if pawl I would have said hub as in my first post?
    Last edited by trailadvent; 07-04-2008 at 08:06 PM.
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  12. #12
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    how long has it been since you did the "ring drive" service on you King hub ???

    My newish 5 Spot was doing the same thing, used the rear wheel off my old bike.

    Did the maintenance as described on the King web site---------my problem solved !!!
    I want a girl in a short skirt and a long jacket--------cake

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by trailadvent
    Dude I hear ya hats why I run all sram, but hes already bought a new cassette and Shimano parts except the chain and there are slight tolerence differences, Shimano does this deliberately, it may not be his problem but it is there! Like you I had many frustrations with this exact issue on mine and others bikes, never since we all converted, you can go ther other way as sram is more tolerant but not Sram with Shimano omo its what I found!

    You may be right, but its the least expensive option to try

    What year X9 is it the pre 07s could develop allot of play in the JC, if thats what yer thinking otherwise I can't see how it could do that in those situations, it dosen't sound like its unders shifts, its when CD stops pedaling then re-engages, if pawl I would have said hub as in my first post?
    Been mixing and matching since my 2004 x9 that was just thrown out in the garbage. Jockeys worn to nubs. Now I have the new x9 on it, no problems at all. I've never seen the Shimano-Sram incompatibility you speak of.

  14. #14
    gnuH
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    TNT or Horst?

  15. #15
    banned
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    Tnt on the drive side, HL on the non-drive.

  16. #16
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    I agree with trailadvent?

    Quote Originally Posted by trailadvent
    Been saying it for years . . . . .Why don't you use an Shimano chain!
    This problem may not be a chain issue, but shimano cassettes work better with shimano chains. The Blackspire chain rings are not cheap enough to make me want to switch from the big 's' chain rings at XT prices. At XTR prices I'd change your crank to an XT.

    Cheers,

  17. #17
    Big Wheel Homer !!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    Never had a problem mixing and matching, though now I'm on KMC z9000 chains. I don't think I'll ever go back to SRAM. Best shifting, feeling, and I never break them.
    I'm with Jerk on this on, KMC chain, XT cassette, Middleburn rings, XO rear derailleur no problems.

    As far as your problem, I would put on a new cable, re-tune the derailleur and if it continues it's probably the hanger.

  18. #18
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    I had the same issue and it was the King hub. The ring drive had gotten a bit clogged with old grease and I guess the teeth just weren't getting seated. It also happened infrequently and under power. I pulled things apart, cleaned up and relubed the ring drive and no more problems.

  19. #19
    Bodhisattva
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    Quote Originally Posted by trailadvent
    Been saying it for years, don't mix but no one listens
    I disagree.

    I've only used Shimano cassettes for 15 years and have been using SRAM chains exclusively since before 2000. Ditto many of the guys I ride with.

    Cowdog, I'd do a basic King ring drive service, make sure chainline is good, check cable length, look for tight links, etc....
    Last edited by The Squeaky Wheel; 07-05-2008 at 09:02 AM.
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  20. #20
    shut up and pedal
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    I agree service the ring-drive, the splines on the drive shell are most likely dry. It's simple to do and should be done yearly if you ride a lot.

  21. #21
    TLL
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel
    I disagree.

    I've only used Shimano cassettes for 15 years and have been using SRAM chains exclusively since before 2000. Ditto many of the guys I ride with.
    Agree, I mix and match as needed. Providing your setup is proper, you should not have issues.

    And I roll at 250#.
    Hadley rear hub service here and here.

  22. #22
    I think I need to Upgrade
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottW
    I had the same issue and it was the King hub. The ring drive had gotten a bit clogged with old grease and I guess the teeth just weren't getting seated. It also happened infrequently and under power. I pulled things apart, cleaned up and relubed the ring drive and no more problems.

    X2.

    I am actualy having the exact same issue. I know that it is not coming from the cassette der. or chain because I know all too well what it feels like to have a chain skip a tooth (former bike mechanic) and that is not what is happening atleast in my case and I have darn near the exact same set up as the OP. When I get the skip/chunk it feels more like the ring drive is setteling in (fully engaging), I guess it is time for a ringdrive service on mine also.


    So is the best lube for the ringdrive the King lube or is there something that is better?

  23. #23
    gravity curmudgeon
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    Thanks for the all the ideas. I did the ring drive service yesterday but haven't had a chance to put the hammer down -- mostly spinning for a few days while I heal pulled hamstring.

    No sticky links and everything else seems good to go. I'll see if the hub service made the difference on an evening ride this week.

    BTW, I doubt mixing SRAM chain and shimano cassette is the issue. I've been doing that for a few years without issue.

    Thanks again!

  24. #24
    Elitest thrill junkie
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzSpeedfreek
    X2.

    I am actualy having the exact same issue. I know that it is not coming from the cassette der. or chain because I know all too well what it feels like to have a chain skip a tooth (former bike mechanic) and that is not what is happening atleast in my case and I have darn near the exact same set up as the OP. When I get the skip/chunk it feels more like the ring drive is setteling in (fully engaging), I guess it is time for a ringdrive service on mine also.


    So is the best lube for the ringdrive the King lube or is there something that is better?
    Monkeybutt (Jeff) was having some sort of similer issue on Friday, but in any case, the issue can't be from mixing new stuff. I could understand shift hesitation and some other issues, but not slipping, there shouldn't be slipping unless something is out of spec...but that does rarely happen (had a performance cassette that was out of spec, and have heard of other stuff). One other area to look at are the rings up front. It sounds dumb but people often miss that they are worn, especially if it's the granny, but if you know what to look for it's easy to detect.

    Anyway, with 1323345 points of engagement...you'd think...

    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  25. #25
    trail fairy
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    Well shows the inconistency, I serviced my ring drive once in 3 years never gave me any problems, aprt from the grease being a little dark the rest was still like new, after the service though it ran darn near drag free and was awesome!

    I have no issue with KMC chains I use em too, but I'll stick to my SRAM on SRAM theory cause it works for me, I have done this for others but what they do now is up to them, I don't fix others bikes anymore so I will ride my own lines as usual..

    Only reason I stick to this is this is probably the most comon mechcanical issue and often most neglected my LBS and riders, there are many combo's and things that can influence this though, but its worked for me, I used to suffer these issues all the time, but not since I went the other way!

    Hope ya get it sorted CD..
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