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  1. #1
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    Diggin and Jumpin

    I posted this in the All Mountain forum as well, but figuring yo Turner folk are so into seeing a fricken Turner in action I thought it was a good match. In anycase, been building on a local trail and we finally got it rideable from top to bottom. 11 doubles, 360 berm, and plank drop at the moment. Once we have this line completely finished will start adding off shoots. In anycase, at the end of the evening the sun was setting and it was the deepest red I have ever seen not sure the picture really gives it justice, but it was sick. The best part about this line is that its on top of a hill over looking the bay....
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  2. #2
    Team Sanchez
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    Tasty! Where is that place? BTW, Zaxxon used to be my favorite video game.

  3. #3
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    amazing stuff-I've never seen a bicycle laid over that far; nice.

  4. #4
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    Dumb, dumb, dumb.

    Dumb to build on such high profile public land.

    Dumb to post pictures that make identifying the area so easy.

    There's another "dumb" in there somewhere but I'l stop at two for now.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete
    There's another "dumb" in there somewhere but I'l stop at two for now.
    ...ooh, oooh, ooooh....I know, I know....it's the brain bucket one....eh?


  6. #6
    Just roll it......
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    Just curious.

    Zaxxon,

    Nice pics.

    Assuming you're the builder of this trail, why would you post pics of it on the interweb for everyone to see? It's obviously not on private land unless I'm missing something. With the background shot, it wouldn't take a brain surgeon to figure it out. Landmarks basically give the location away. Anyway, after digging a nice trail and spending countless hours on it, it seems like it'd be in your interest to keep this with your primary crew vs. dropping photos on the web first thing.

    If you're not the primary builder, I'll assume a good ole fashioned ass whooping is coming your way (verbal or otherwise). As someone that builds a bit of trail, I can tell you that pic with the background would cause a sh!tstorm in our neck o' the woods since it gives away the locale. Of course, all of our pics have big trees in the background, so it's a non issue.

    Cheers,
    EB

  7. #7
    Now with flavor!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by ebxtreme

    If you're not the primary builder, I'll assume a good ole fashioned ass whooping is coming your way (verbal or otherwise). As someone that builds a bit of trail, I can tell you that pic with the background would cause a sh!tstorm in our neck o' the woods since it gives away the locale. Of course, all of our pics have big trees in the background, so it's a non issue.

    Cheers,
    EB
    Check the norcal forum and look for dirty harrys.....and feel my pain.
    STRAVA: Enabling dorks everywhere to get trails shut down........ all for the sake of a race on the internet.

  8. #8
    No, that's not phonetic
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    Very very nicely done pics.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by ebxtreme
    Zaxxon,

    Assuming you're the builder of this trail, why would you post pics of it on the interweb for everyone to see?
    It's one of those new-fangled reverse marketing schemes.

    http://wrenchscience.com/Company/Abo...px?stylecode=M

  10. #10
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    Emo kids shouldn't bother wearing helmets anyhow. The world can afford to have more of them suffer head injuries.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidwoo
    Check the norcal forum and look for dirty harrys.....and feel my pain.
    well punk??? do you feel lucky????
    the trick is ENJOYING YOUR LIFE EACH DAY, don't waste them away wishing for better days

  12. #12
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    the pics are awsome! the skills ya show on the bike are excellent. the lack of helmet is substantially more stupid than postin pics of ridin without one. the trail access thing? well if these guys are right, its gonna be a lonely winter and a helluva long summer for ya. i hope theyre wrong and ya find the good sense to wear a lid tomorrow.
    No, I'm NOT back!

  13. #13
    Hike 'n Bike Nat'l Champ
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidwoo
    Check the norcal forum and look for dirty harrys.....and feel my pain.

    I second your pain, Kidwoo.

  14. #14
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    Something smells skunky. Zachdank.

    cactuscorn, you should lecture those guys at Dirt magazine in the UK. They commonly have pictures of riders without helmets. What's odd is that many of those riders are a little more skilled than the average Homer and maybe even more skilled than the Team Sanchez people. I've heard that Rowen Sorrell actually races world cup pro downhill. So maybe cactuscorn's lecture series hasn't been heard on the world cup pro downhill race circuit. Here's your chance!

  15. #15
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    opinions are like forum trolls who wont admit identity. everyone has one and they all stink. or somethin like that.
    No, I'm NOT back!

  16. #16
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    Time to call in the poachers, land managers, and the dirt jumpers.

    Thanks, Zaxxon! Wrench Science at work being models for the community!

  17. #17
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    Is that Berkeley hills? Go Cal Bears!

    (going down to USC this weekend for the game)

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by ebxtreme
    Zaxxon,

    Nice pics.

    Assuming you're the builder of this trail, why would you post pics of it on the interweb for everyone to see? It's obviously not on private land unless I'm missing something. With the background shot, it wouldn't take a brain surgeon to figure it out. Landmarks basically give the location away. Anyway, after digging a nice trail and spending countless hours on it, it seems like it'd be in your interest to keep this with your primary crew vs. dropping photos on the web first thing.

    If you're not the primary builder, I'll assume a good ole fashioned ass whooping is coming your way (verbal or otherwise). As someone that builds a bit of trail, I can tell you that pic with the background would cause a sh!tstorm in our neck o' the woods since it gives away the locale. Of course, all of our pics have big trees in the background, so it's a non issue.

    Cheers,
    EB
    Ah, the good ole knockem down... First yes I'm the primary builder, second yes countless hours of building a sustainable trail. Weedwacking, clearing overgrown brush, picking up other peoples trash, cutting back burnable weeds, using thrown concrete, putting in berms so there aren't braking bumps, water bars for run off. Why is it that every person building a trail is automatically put in the catagory of building some wicked illegal wood structure. If anything, I'm cleaning up a mess left by passers by who think that its a place to dump there crap.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    Time to call in the poachers, land managers, and the dirt jumpers.

    Thanks, Zaxxon! Wrench Science at work being models for the community!
    Yeah, I made a mistake by being stoked about bikes and riding. Sorry for getting some tweaked air on a little double and showing you the sunset. I apologize for my hat not being thick enough for you or not snell approved. I apologize for a trail in a beautiful scenery that is being well maintained and evironmentally friendly. Of course I apologize for letting you all in for some good old riding. I guess talking the talk is way more important than riding. I guess you can just write me off as one of those guys, who loves to ride bikes and work on trails. We all know there are way to many of those anyway. As far as Wrench Science concerned, WS didnt' work on the trail, I did and I had no intention of bringing WS into it. Although now you can be assured that I ride bikes and I'm not some poser on the phone just talking the talk or spending my days on the forums. I'm truly sorry for all the things I've done for the mountain bike community over the last 15 years. Last I'm sorry for being me, a person with dirt in there veins and a life of 2 wheels trying to make something out of nothing.
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  20. #20
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    im sorry man. didnt mean to make ya feel un appriciated here. i just dont like seein folks get hurt. seen it too much in my time and been there myself. yeah, i mean a head injury. it sucked but i got off easy. yer post was full of stoke and the trail is teets! i for one approached this all wrong. sorry.
    No, I'm NOT back!

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by zaxxon
    I apologize for a trail in a beautiful scenery that is being well maintained and evironmentally friendly.
    Such arrogance coupled with such cluelessness. I would expect it from the groms but not from a supposed adult.

    Why are you so special that you get to build trail on sensitive public land?

    Way to represent!

  22. #22
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    You improved a watershed...

    on held land....

  23. #23
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    pubic land?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete
    Such arrogance coupled with such cluelessness. I would expect it from the groms but not from a supposed adult.

    Why are you so special that you get to build trail on sensitive public land?

    Way to represent!
    When did I say it was public land and are you an environmental soil scientist to decide on the sensitivity? What if its private land that I have the ok from the landowner to build on? Huh, never thought about that one did you? Yes, people do ask to build trails. Once again throwing me to the wolves from pure speculation. I can see you would be a good riding buddy, I can clearly see your angst and anger, but throwing out straws on a few pictures is hardly worth it. Keep in mind the big picture here. Riding bikes and working on trails is not illegal and throwing it around so loosely isn't helping us. Part of the problem with trail closure is a poorly designed, highly illegal trail. I'm not doing either one, so if you want to pick up on one of the other comments about not wearing a helmet, you got me, but otherwise your points and comments are useless.
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by zaxxon
    When did I say it was public land and are you an environmental soil scientist to decide on the sensitivity? What if its private land that I have the ok from the landowner to build on? Huh, never thought about that one did you?
    Of course I did.

    Unfortunately for you the pictures you posted clearly show that you built in (insert park name here).

    It's sensitive due to the never ending access issues that riders face on those lands.

    Your lame attempt at a snow job is really weak.

  25. #25
    Just roll it......
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    Quote Originally Posted by zaxxon
    Ah, the good ole knockem down... First yes I'm the primary builder, second yes countless hours of building a sustainable trail. Weedwacking, clearing overgrown brush, picking up other peoples trash, cutting back burnable weeds, using thrown concrete, putting in berms so there aren't braking bumps, water bars for run off. Why is it that every person building a trail is automatically put in the catagory of building some wicked illegal wood structure. If anything, I'm cleaning up a mess left by passers by who think that its a place to dump there crap.
    Zaxxon,

    The pics are rad. The scenery as well as the riding. I wasn't trying to rain on your parade and I'm not trying to say "don't post pics" or be stoked about your spot. The pics themselves are f'ing awesome. Also, personally, I don't care who you work with....you don't seem like you're trying to represent anyone here other than yourself and help fuel the stoke.

    I'm just saying I build trail as well and I'm not throwing any pics up that would give away the location of them which is what that one pic essentially did.......at the very least, it gave the general area away. You mentioned 11 doubles, berms, etc. and I KNOW how many manhours that takes to build.....moving dirt is a lot of thankless f'ing work. As a result, I was saying that posting the pic that might give it away (i.e. help with the destruction of your cool trail) might not be the best idea. If it's your trail and you put all the time in to flag it, clear it and dig it, then that's your call and you can do whatever you want My comment about "if it isn't your trail" is totally moot then.

    I'll be digging with FM and other buddies on a ride tonight, so I know what goes into the process. I guess I was more curious why so many of the gnar-cal folks are anxious to throw up revealing vids and images of their 'secret' trails and then piss and moan when said trails either get shutdown or bulldozed. Just a curious observation.

    Cheers,
    EBX

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete
    Of course I did.

    Unfortunately for you the pictures you posted clearly show that you built in (insert park name here).

    It's sensitive due to the never ending access issues that riders face on those lands.

    Your lame attempt at a snow job is really weak.
    Do you really think I would be able to build doubles and berms in a Public Park? Your a tool for believing it. To be dead honest the trail is on private land, because of the massive electrical towers it can't be deemed safe for public use. The land is dead, except for a few dog runners, and a few people who believe they can dump there crap on it. Yes, it sure looks like a great piece of land for the million dollar view, but the power towers makes it unusable as a park, residency or even an industrial park. Its just a funky piece of parcel with a sick, well made line, and a great view. Which is the whole reason I posted it. I know you can't handle that there is a piece of land that can be built on that has a great view, but now you know.
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  27. #27
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    Note the subject bar on post #23.

    Unfortunately, Zach and Wrench Science are teaching and spreading the lesson that you should be able to build where you make it pretty and take pretty pictures. The helmet thing is a whole different issue. This in theory is nice, but the fact remains that scores of BMX kids and dirtjumpers are already doing this and creating havoc for others. To boot, people like Zach want to be seen and acknowledged for their efforts for the good of the common man on other people's property. Then these areas get flattened by the land manager and the excuse is always, "Bbbbbut I put so much hard work into it! I used IMBA's trailbuilding guidelines! It's completely different from the jumps the kids make! We actually moved a car to clear land and now they destroy it...but why???"

    And if you had permission to build, you wouldn't have made a defensive response (AKA I know something you don't) such as, ""What if I did get permission?" Did you get permission from Wrench Science to declare that you poached on a trail and built some pretty stuff without permission. This isn't like the movies. The manager isn't going to walk up to you, pat you on the back and say, "Son, good job...this can stay!" just like in those cheezy 80's movies.

  28. #28
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    Nice pix.

    Heey, if I can find your trail, can I ride it?

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by ebxtreme
    Zaxxon,

    The pics are rad. The scenery as well as the riding. I wasn't trying to rain on your parade and I'm not trying to say "don't post pics" or be stoked about your spot. The pics themselves are f'ing awesome. Also, personally, I don't care who you work with....you don't seem like you're trying to represent anyone here other than yourself and help fuel the stoke.

    I'm just saying I build trail as well and I'm not throwing any pics up that would give away the location of them which is what that one pic essentially did.......at the very least, it gave the general area away. You mentioned 11 doubles, berms, etc. and I KNOW how many manhours that takes to build.....moving dirt is a lot of thankless f'ing work. As a result, I was saying that posting the pic that might give it away (i.e. help with the destruction of your cool trail) might not be the best idea. If it's your trail and you put all the time in to flag it, clear it and dig it, then that's your call and you can do whatever you want My comment about "if it isn't your trail" is totally moot then.

    I'll be digging with FM and other buddies on a ride tonight, so I know what goes into the process. I guess I was more curious why so many of the gnar-cal folks are anxious to throw up revealing vids and images of their 'secret' trails and then piss and moan when said trails either get shutdown or bulldozed. Just a curious observation.

    Cheers,
    EBX
    The trail isn't illegal, but private, I never said it was illegal and not sure why everyone assumed so. I never tried to keep it a secret and as open as it is, it would be impossible to pretend that it was. The cops have stopped by and said, "just don't bury any bodies and you're ok.". I try to build or maintain trails that can be ridden. I'm not out cutting trails through national forest or protected land.

    I'm not out telling everyone the address to keep it on the local side, but I'm not building super secret, illegal trails, because they are more likely to get ripped down and just plain aren't smart. I build trails to ride, the more people riding it the better, because a well ridden, well maintained trail is the best trail. This trail is completely out in the open, no trees right off the road.

    This assumption that all trail building is bad, and if there is a good view it must be illegal is really over the top. Look at Canada the whole north shore is built on National Forest and for a time Canada actually had a government funded trail crew. Because of all the Nazi's sabotaging trails and so many places being shut down they have oppressed the US mountain bikers into thinking "Don't build trails". All I'm saying is you can build trails, you should build trails and jumps and berms, just do it smart and on land that allows it. There are a million places you can't build, but I also know there are places you can. I've found one for myself and I was sharing it with the Turner community. Unfortunately some people have a hard time swallowing it.
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  30. #30
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    You Bet!

    [QUOTE=Random Drivel]Nice pix.

    Heey, if I can find your trail, can I ride it? [/QUOTE
    Hell yeah, rip it up, just clean up after yourself.
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  31. #31
    Oh, So Interesting!
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    Nice pics!!!

    Thanks for posting!
    .




    Strava: turn off your dork logger when you're not on sanctioned trails.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by zaxxon
    The trail isn't illegal, but private, I never said it was illegal and not sure why everyone assumed so. I never tried to keep it a secret and as open as it is, it would be impossible to pretend that it was. The cops have stopped by and said, "just don't bury any bodies and you're ok.". I try to build or maintain trails that can be ridden. I'm not out cutting trails through national forest or protected land.

    I'm not out telling everyone the address to keep it on the local side, but I'm not building super secret, illegal trails, because they are more likely to get ripped down and just plain aren't smart. I build trails to ride, the more people riding it the better, because a well ridden, well maintained trail is the best trail. This trail is completely out in the open, no trees right off the road.

    This assumption that all trail building is bad, and if there is a good view it must be illegal is really over the top. Look at Canada the whole north shore is built on National Forest and for a time Canada actually had a government funded trail crew. Because of all the Nazi's sabotaging trails and so many places being shut down they have oppressed the US mountain bikers into thinking "Don't build trails". All I'm saying is you can build trails, you should build trails and jumps and berms, just do it smart and on land that allows it. There are a million places you can't build, but I also know there are places you can. I've found one for myself and I was sharing it with the Turner community. Unfortunately some people have a hard time swallowing it.
    Love how you compare two different countries with very different laws and governing bodies together when most everyone knows how much of a PITA legal matters are.

    If Canada is so great, build there. Here, do the right thing and get permission. The cops giving the seal of approval doesn't mean dick. It's the land manager and again, you're blowing smoke up everyone's ass by talking about this and that, while your earlier statement was eluding to you getting permission.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by tscheezy
    Very very nicely done pics.
    I second that.. awesome pics

  34. #34
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    First the CF rants, now this...what's happening to this forum? I think it's time to take a long vacation from Homerland, ride and ski more,and spend less time behind the keyboard - adios amigos.
    When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. ~H.G. Wells

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by zaxxon
    This assumption that all trail building is bad, and if there is a good view it must be illegal is really over the top.
    So who exactly at the City of El Cerrito gave you permission to build trail on Hillside Natural Area lands?



  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by zaxxon
    This assumption that all trail building is bad, and if there is a good view it must be illegal is really over the top.
    You and I are in agreement. I don't think all trail building is bad either. In fact, the stuff we are working on now should be around for a long time. Even if it's not an "official" trail to begin with, if a trails built well (with sustainability in mind) and ridden enough, they very likely could become official trail.

    Quote Originally Posted by zaxxon
    Look at Canada the whole north shore is built on National Forest and for a time Canada actually had a government funded trail crew. Because of all the Nazi's sabotaging trails and so many places being shut down they have oppressed the US mountain bikers into thinking "Don't build trails".
    The stuff on the shore, as you say, is all built on queen's land and most of it is in the provincial parks. Most of them were "illegally" built and have now become part of the trail network around there. Even today, there are lots of trails that the tourists to the Shore never see and are deemed 'illegal' by the powers that be. Those could become official some day as well......who knows?

    I've come to know a chunk of the trailbuilders in WA over the last couple of years. Most of them are super cool and ultra laid back. They're not trying to 'rape the land' or 'kill our sport' as a lot of people accuse them. Most of them are just strong riders that want more challenging trails to ride on and that isn't really available in our traditional "xc" trail systems today. These people aren't criminals OR idiots....most are respected members of the community (lumping myself in that group, of course ) .

    I'm not a zealot about keeping a trail to myself (although I know some folks that are fiercely that way).....rather, I hope folks get to enjoy any new trails we build. Will the word eventually get out? Sure, but I'd prefer that groundswell took place organically via word of mouth. That's me though and your position is totally cool.

    Have fun with your trail. Looks good.

    Cheers,
    EBX

  37. #37
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    So helmet issue aside, basically you've got the original poster saying the land is private land and other posters here saying it is public land and calling him a liar, and going back and forth.

    Anybody got any proof either way?
    Do Starbucks employees take coffee breaks?

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by bwolmarans
    Anybody got any proof either way?
    Yes.

    I'll give Zach a chance to come clean though.

  39. #39
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    ct: check yer pm's if yer still around please.
    No, I'm NOT back!

  40. #40
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    the last post

    ok...this is it..the last post....the land is PG&E property, it runs under enormous power towers. Its an useable parcel, I spoke with PG&E as they were plowing and weedwacking the parcel about 3 years ago. They do this every year to cut back the weeds. There was an existing "trail" that ran through the property that bmx kids had built a few jumps on a few years before, they had no problem with building jumps as long as we weren't trashing the place. We added a trashcan on the side of the road and when PG goes through and weed wacks they trim along the jumps as well. So NO I don't have written permission, I have a verbal permission to build as long as we aren't being stupid about it. Of course now that I've posted this I'm sure some of you will try to make the point of getting it removed.
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  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by cutthroat
    First the CF rants, now this...what's happening to this forum?
    the koolaid went rancid...

  42. #42
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    The employees and technicians working around the towers are not mangers or supervisors. They are subordinates. Verbal permission from them still constitutes illegal use.

    Still blowing smoke up our asses.

    Next issue is you're probably older than I am, but I will still go ahead and say kids don't understand right and wrong anymore. They only understand "I" and "ME" and "NOW" and their side of the story. It's painfully evident that Zach doesn't know what makes him wrong and why it makes Wrench Science look bad on several fronts.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by zaxxon
    ok...this is it..the last post....the land is PG&E property, it runs under enormous power towers.
    Interesting. Unbelievable but nonetheless an interesting response.





    Same trees, same colored roofs, powerlines, etc.



    What did you hope to gain by lying about where you built the bootleg trail?

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    All you F%^Ktards complaining should just STFU. Let the dude build his trails. It's such a shame its come to this. He's right look at canada, they are way ahead of the gold ole' US of A...in so many friggin ways. This just isn't about biking, it started with the ski industry first. Look what a thriving free skiing scene this country has....If you stay inbounds. We have people dying in a bullsh*t war, the world is overpopulated, were slowly killing ourselves with all of our toxic waste we dispose of so we can be good little friggin consumers....But don't you dare build stunts, or cut some trail into our pretty little hillside All you poser punks should think about that the next time you drive your fossil fuel buring rig UP the friggin road so you can roll your lazy arse down.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete
    Interesting. Unbelievable but nonetheless an interesting response.





    Same trees, same colored roofs, powerlines, etc.



    What did you hope to gain by lying about where you built the bootleg trail?

    looks like power lines to me!

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    Quote Originally Posted by JrockFeltaz
    All you F%^Ktards complaining should just STFU. Let the dude build his trails. It's such a shame its come to this. He's right look at canada, they are way ahead of the gold ole' US of A...in so many friggin ways. This just isn't about biking, it started with the ski industry first. Look what a thriving free skiing scene this country has....If you stay inbounds. We have people dying in a bullsh*t war, the world is overpopulated, were slowly killing ourselves with all of our toxic waste we dispose of so we can be good little friggin consumers....But don't you dare build stunts, or cut some trail into our pretty little hillside All you poser punks should think about that the next time you drive your fossil fuel buring rig UP the friggin road so you can roll your lazy arse down.


    p.s. Which part of "Hillside Natural Area" do you find confusing?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete


    p.s. Which part of "Hillside Natural Area" do you find confusing?

    "Natural Hillside Area" in the bay area = "Toxic Cover-up"

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    Jrock,

    What powers your vehicle?

    In fact, the plastics you use in your everyday life...where did they come from?

  49. #49
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    ............

    JMH

    Quote Originally Posted by JrockFeltaz
    All you F%^Ktards complaining should just STFU. Let the dude build his trails. It's such a shame its come to this. He's right look at canada, they are way ahead of the gold ole' US of A...in so many friggin ways. This just isn't about biking, it started with the ski industry first. Look what a thriving free skiing scene this country has....If you stay inbounds. We have people dying in a bullsh*t war, the world is overpopulated, were slowly killing ourselves with all of our toxic waste we dispose of so we can be good little friggin consumers....But don't you dare build stunts, or cut some trail into our pretty little hillside All you poser punks should think about that the next time you drive your fossil fuel buring rig UP the friggin road so you can roll your lazy arse down.

  50. #50
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    pow lines

    Here you go, you obviously want to see the powerlines for yourself.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    -----------------------
    The world's only compatible bike builder
    wrenchscience

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