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  1. #1
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    Did Turner drop horst for greedy reasons?

    Hi,

    New to the Turner board, but was thinking about getting a Turner.

    I know:

    1.Turner dropped horst for his self name TNT.
    2.Read PLENTY of threads stating little performance difference between horst and TNT. So don't send me any links saying this topic has been beat to death.
    3.If this idea has already been covered, I apologize in advanced.

    So lets look at the facts - DT has to pay Specialized (I think) to add that link by rear derrailuer. He initially used this idea when starting bike company probably b/c he thought it was the best. Why would start company with second best ideas? Suddenly he decides to drop the link and start his own - thus not paying royalties to Specialized. You lose an extra link by derrailuer - which helps performance.

    Conclusion - he bought one too many Ferrari's and we have to pay for them. Or he needs a couple more houses and needs more money and we will pay for those too.
    "If an illegal alien is an undocumented immigrant, than a drug dealer is an unlicensed pharmicist."

  2. #2
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    One more thought...

    To recap - we know that he used to pay royalties to Specialized. He doesn't now. That saves him money. That is a indisputable fact. So the only way to prove he isn't being greedy is if he passes saving along to us, the consumer, by reducing the price of his frames, since he doesn't have to pay royalties anymore.

    If he does't reduce the price of his frames, than my conclusion stands correct- he just bought a new mansion and we have to pay for it.
    "If an illegal alien is an undocumented immigrant, than a drug dealer is an unlicensed pharmicist."

  3. #3
    rr
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    Your missing a VERY large piece of the puzzle, does ICT ring a bell?

  4. #4
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    Wouldn't you rather be riding your bike than running your mouth? I know I would but, I'm on the injured reserve list.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by rroeder
    Your missing a VERY large piece of the puzzle, does ICT ring a bell?

    Hey, did you get that 6-pack/RFX yet?

  6. #6
    t66
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    Welcome to the Turner Board Comrade. The frames are so awesome we care not that he's a "Capitalist Pig".

  7. #7
    rr
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    Quote Originally Posted by icegeek
    Hey, did you get that 6-pack/RFX yet?
    Not yet, hopefully in a few weeks. They had some white and grey in stock but I'm holding out for the green ano.

  8. #8
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    Turner is a business not a charity non profit org.

    Quote Originally Posted by bullit71
    Hi,

    New to the Turner board, but was thinking about getting a Turner.

    I know:

    1.Turner dropped horst for his self name TNT.
    2.Read PLENTY of threads stating little performance difference between horst and TNT. So don't send me any links saying this topic has been beat to death.
    3.If this idea has already been covered, I apologize in advanced.

    So lets look at the facts - DT has to pay Specialized (I think) to add that link by rear derrailuer. He initially used this idea when starting bike company probably b/c he thought it was the best. Why would start company with second best ideas? Suddenly he decides to drop the link and start his own - thus not paying royalties to Specialized. You lose an extra link by derrailuer - which helps performance.

    Conclusion - he bought one too many Ferrari's and we have to pay for them. Or he needs a couple more houses and needs more money and we will pay for those too.

    Remember one thing. To stay in business you alway have to do better than the year before. If DT does not generate enough cash flow to pay his obligations he will go bankrupt or someone else will buy him in (Like Tony). He did what he had to do. The royalties that he had to pay to Specializd and TE come right out of the bottom line. He came up with a way to save some cash, save the company, and pass, the best he could, some similar (TNT) technology to us. The bikes are still well made and if 1mm difference matters to you then go buy an Ellsworth.

    The worst thing that can happen is for the company to go bankrupt or a hostile take over by Pacific bicycles. Remember when GT's were cool???.......
    Sit and spin my ass...

  9. #9
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    Hilarious! To even suggest that this was done for profitable purposes has got ya drawers all bunched up.

    Pathetic.
    "If an illegal alien is an undocumented immigrant, than a drug dealer is an unlicensed pharmicist."

  10. #10
    MK_
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    Actually, DT made a post a while where he said something along the lines of the payments for the royalties came straight from the profits. Apparently, over the years the materials and manufacturing costs have gone up and he kept the frame prices unchanges, so he paid royalties out of his own pocket, so to speak.

    You should also keep in mind that when DT started the company, V-brakes were king. Horst Link was invented in that era, where the brake moment happened around the rim by the seatstay arch.

    _MK
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  11. #11
    rr
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    Quote Originally Posted by bullit71
    Hilarious! To even suggest that this was done for profitable purposes has got ya drawers all bunched up.

    Pathetic.
    You need to pull your head out of your ***, ZR was saying he did it for financial reasons, but not to pay for a new mansion or Ferrari, maybe he decided he didn't want to contribute to his competitior's Ferrari collection. I'll say it again, does ICT ring a bell or are you that clueless?
    Last edited by rr; 05-20-2006 at 10:24 AM.

  12. #12
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    Look, I'm all for capitalism. Good for DT. I hope he is driving a porshe. I'm sure he deserves it. After all, he's the one that took all the risk when he started his company.

    I was ONLY suggesting that perhaps is conceivable that he dropped the horst link to keep profits up. If so, my point is proven. He keeps his profits up, and we ride slightly, (perhaps barely) less performing bikes.

    Thanks DT!
    "If an illegal alien is an undocumented immigrant, than a drug dealer is an unlicensed pharmicist."

  13. #13
    Bodhisattva
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    Quote Originally Posted by bullit71
    Did Turner drop Horst for greedy reasons?
    I heard it's because Horst wasn't a good kisser

    “Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep moving.”

    ― Albert Einstein

  14. #14
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    QUOTE: Did Turner drop horst for greedy reasons?

    Yawn.

    Alternative Response (thx to Steve Martin): Oh I get it......it's one of those profit deals!
    Whining is not a strategy.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by bullit71
    Hi,

    New to the Turner board, but was thinking about getting a Turner.

    I know:

    1.Turner dropped horst for his self name TNT.
    2.Read PLENTY of threads stating little performance difference between horst and TNT. So don't send me any links saying this topic has been beat to death.
    3.If this idea has already been covered, I apologize in advanced.

    So lets look at the facts - DT has to pay Specialized (I think) to add that link by rear derrailuer. He initially used this idea when starting bike company probably b/c he thought it was the best. Why would start company with second best ideas? Suddenly he decides to drop the link and start his own - thus not paying royalties to Specialized. You lose an extra link by derrailuer - which helps performance.

    Conclusion - he bought one too many Ferrari's and we have to pay for them. Or he needs a couple more houses and needs more money and we will pay for those too.

    It really doesnt make a difference mr. troll, the HL and the TNT will spank your Bullit so just get one!
    Yamaha & Paiste, weapons of mass percussion

  16. #16
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    Actually I don't ride a Bullit anymore. I ride an 06 Specialized Enduro Expert. Love the bike, but because Specialized is so common, and I've heard such good things about Turner, I'd like to check on out. But a buddy of mine just bought a new 5 spot, and got the '05 since that was the last year with horst. Alot of ppl are gobbling last years before it too late.

    I don't if I'd buy one now. I guess I'm just getting tired of the higher and higher prices for bike frames these days, with companies cutting corners more and more.

    First their hand built in USA, next their built in Taiwan. One year they have XTR, then next year XT, and next year LX, and the price is the same or even more!! What the hell is going on here???

    That why I love new companies like Transition that brings $900 frames into the market that ride awesome. Preston just got MBA's FR bike of the year, and the frame is half the cost of Turners, Ellsworth,etc. Must make DT wet his pants when he sees that.

    Competition baby!!
    "If an illegal alien is an undocumented immigrant, than a drug dealer is an unlicensed pharmicist."

  17. #17
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    "...I'd like to check on out. "

    Oops, meant check it out...
    "If an illegal alien is an undocumented immigrant, than a drug dealer is an unlicensed pharmicist."

  18. #18
    MK_
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    Quote Originally Posted by bullit71
    Actually I don't ride a Bullit anymore. I ride an 06 Specialized Enduro Expert. Love the bike, but because Specialized is so common, and I've heard such good things about Turner, I'd like to check on out. But a buddy of mine just bought a new 5 spot, and got the '05 since that was the last year with horst. Alot of ppl are gobbling last years before it too late.

    I don't if I'd buy one now. I guess I'm just getting tired of the higher and higher prices for bike frames these days, with companies cutting corners more and more.

    First their hand built in USA, next their built in Taiwan. One year they have XTR, then next year XT, and next year LX, and the price is the same or even more!! What the hell is going on here???

    That why I love new companies like Transition that brings $900 frames into the market that ride awesome. Preston just got MBA's FR bike of the year, and the frame is half the cost of Turners, Ellsworth,etc. Must make DT wet his pants when he sees that.

    Competition baby!!
    Where do you think Transition is made? It ain't the US of A. Turner is still holding out, made in Oregon for the most part, rest in Texas, I believe, their RAD tubing.

    Have you seen a Transition up close? The manufacturing quality doesn't even come close to a high end frame like a Turner or Ventana. The shocks that come with Transition bikes are also of the lower shelf variety.

    And as you rightfully pointed out, one year XTR, another XT and so on. Everything costs more to make these days and the market dictates the retail prices, so each manufacturer's margins are shrinking. Nothing unusual about it, it is just the name of the game.

    And durability is another huge issue. I've ridden a Preston FR for a day, it was about half a season old, and definatelly not ridden to its potential, and the thing felt really used. Same thing happened to a buddy of mine's Heckler. After a season the bike felt a decade old. With Turners, longevity is a huge part of their appeal. Not to mention their ability to morph.

    Undoubtedly bang for a buck wise you'll be better off with a Taiwanese frame from some other brand, but if you're looking for the highest quality frame which fits like a glove, then Turner is definatelly one of those companies.

    _MK
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    "The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits."
    -- Einstein, Albert

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by bullit71
    That why I love new companies like Transition that brings $900 frames into the market that ride awesome. Preston just got MBA's FR bike of the year, and the frame is half the cost of Turners, Ellsworth,etc. Must make DT wet his pants when he sees that.

    Competition baby!!
    So buy a Transition, and STFU. There have always been less expensive alternatives to Turner, Intense, et al., so you haven't really discovered anything new.

    Just don't kid yourself into thinking that a Transition (or any other overseas frame) is any "more special" than a Specialized- they just aren't mass produced like Special Ed.
    Registered Dietitian, Cycling Coach, Ascend Nutrition and Coaching

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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by bullit71


    First their hand built in USA, next their built in Taiwan. One year they have XTR, then next year XT, and next year LX, and the price is the same or even more!! What the hell is going on here???

    That why I love new companies like Transition that brings $900 frames into the market that ride awesome. Preston just got MBA's FR bike of the year, and the frame is half the cost of Turners, Ellsworth,etc. Must make DT wet his pants when he sees that.

    Competition baby!!

    You actually think that Dave Turner or Sherwood Gibson has lost any sleep with yet another cheap frame imported into the country from Taiwan?

    BTW, just wondering, I wonder how many Downhill Championship titles have been won on a $900 frame vs a DHR? HMMM, I think that a few MTN type cross titles have been won on some rebadged Spot/RFX's too!


    Now that you got me going, where is that 06 Enduro made? I wonder how much that frame costs?

    Are we done Bass fishing with a bobber and a corn ball yet?
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  21. #21
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    Out comes the **** stirring spoon,



    ...and we rush in with our bowls.

    yum yum..

  22. #22
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    yeah, I think Bullit is a **** kicker and enjoys it.
    Former Homer...Ventana convert: extreme poseur!

  23. #23
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    Specialized is sticking it to you more

    Quote Originally Posted by bullit71
    Actually I don't ride a Bullit anymore. I ride an 06 Specialized Enduro Expert. Love the bike, but because Specialized is so common, and I've heard such good things about Turner, I'd like to check on out. But a buddy of mine just bought a new 5 spot, and got the '05 since that was the last year with horst. Alot of ppl are gobbling last years before it too late.

    I don't if I'd buy one now. I guess I'm just getting tired of the higher and higher prices for bike frames these days, with companies cutting corners more and more.

    First their hand built in USA, next their built in Taiwan. One year they have XTR, then next year XT, and next year LX, and the price is the same or even more!! What the hell is going on here???

    That why I love new companies like Transition that brings $900 frames into the market that ride awesome. Preston just got MBA's FR bike of the year, and the frame is half the cost of Turners, Ellsworth,etc. Must make DT wet his pants when he sees that.

    Competition baby!!
    Specialized frames are made by merida, which has a plant in taiwan and churns out 5million frames a year. The price of one of those frames is peanuts. They are made by robots. Specialized probably has a higher margin per bike than DT. You did not see any of the savings, the CEO of specilized did. He is the one driving the porshe....
    Sit and spin my ass...

  24. #24
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    Posts like this are best ingored.
    Last edited by S-Works; 05-21-2006 at 09:12 AM.
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  25. #25
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    these type of threads should be ignored imo.i can only assume he is trying to get a rise and several people have bitten......ignore him and he'll go away

  26. #26
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    Ha ha. Well, at least this brings out some more thought than your typical, "look at my new bike" thread.

    It is clear that Turner owners are very loyal. I guess I'll have to try one some day. Specialized Enduro Expert vs 6 Pack test? Hmmmm...
    "If an illegal alien is an undocumented immigrant, than a drug dealer is an unlicensed pharmicist."

  27. #27
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    Actually, I'm really not trying to stir things up. You all are right. The owner of S is probably driving a Ferrari. I was just thinking about this when I got up this morning and thought I'd post my thoughts. Notice I haven't said one negetive thing about the bikes Turner makes. All I hear is great things about them, and I may buy one someday. So when owners like DT or Tony E and others start cutting corners, are they just trying to keep there heads above the water, or are they are filthy rich - just stickin' it to the consumer again.

    I have no idea, so I thought I'd ask. No need to get all pissy about it.
    "If an illegal alien is an undocumented immigrant, than a drug dealer is an unlicensed pharmicist."

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by bullit71
    Look, I'm all for capitalism. Good for DT. I hope he is driving a porshe. I'm sure he deserves it. After all, he's the one that took all the risk when he started his company.

    I was ONLY suggesting that perhaps is conceivable that he dropped the horst link to keep profits up. If so, my point is proven. He keeps his profits up, and we ride slightly, (perhaps barely) less performing bikes.

    Thanks DT!
    It's funny because I keep hearing about this mansion Todd Ellington has.

    Here's something that might help the perspective:
    I'm shocked, was horst link finally just a hype or what?

  29. #29
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    I think as bikes increased in travel, the magic of the horst link is reduced [origionally developed on short travel mtb's], ultimately relegating it to good idea status, but not worth paying extra for anymore...which anyone who's ridden a tnt will attest to. Dave Turner has said as much, but I won't rehash....

    A horst link is nice, but it's not the maico-breako it used to be.....

  30. #30
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    I saw some publishing on the FSR by Specialized at the end of the 90's about the amount of brake locking, as compared to other major brands.

    What's funny is people actually think putting a Horst Link on automatically decouples any and all braking forces from the suspension. This can't be further from the truth, as it's a race for the smallest percentage of these braking-induced forces. Back then, the other designs didn't have so much of an advantage over the FSR in terms of the real numbers, but they were "doctored" a bit by S to make them look better for advertising.

    Additionally, I had several non-horst four bars before Turner. One didn't feel like it had any negative braking behavior, the next one did. I didn't buy a Turner for the HL, either. I knew it didn't make a difference. A HL doesn't tell much about how good the bike is going to ride, doesn't tell how well it's gonna hook up on ****ty terrain, nor does it tell to what percentage the rear will be decoupled from the brakes which is also dependent on the rest of the design.

    Too bad most of the "smart buyers" in mtb that did their research fell for S's advertising. Big success, I say.

  31. #31
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    It has been said...

    When an ant colony is attacked by an outside, the queen is protected first. The ants all run to protect the queen pronto. You have attacked the queen, DT, and the ants are running to protect. It is funny...DT could come out with a balsa wood frame and the homers would say it is as good as alloy because of some strength test in Malaysia.

    DT is not saying anything on the subject. I guess he feels he doesn't owe us an explanation or just can't; however, it is true that some may not choose to buy his bikes because of the change. Cycle Path in Oregon is not longer going to sell Turners due to the change. It is free market and like the stock market perception is everything. The HL may not be better than a seat stay link but many believe it is. It is the psychology of it. I'm guessing DT is being sued or threatened with a lawsuit and can't say much. The guys at Turner are good guys and very helpful.

    I'm on the my third year on my Spot with no pivot changes and zero noise. Wow! I live in a a rainy climate and just love my bike. I would not change it for any bike on the market. Would I buy a TNT Turner? Not sure, just being honest.

    Jaybo

    PS I would bet DT has some dough but probably is not filthy rich. But, I don't care if he is...this is America, baby, and the pursuit of wealth is a good thing.

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    That's pretty funny!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaybo
    When an ant colony is attacked by an outside, the queen is protected first. The ants all run to protect the queen pronto. You have attacked the queen, DT, and the ants are running to protect. It is funny...DT could come out with a balsa wood frame and the homers would say it is as good as alloy because of some strength test in Malaysia.

    DT is not saying anything on the subject. I guess he feels he doesn't owe us an explanation or just can't; however, it is true that some may not choose to buy his bikes because of the change. Cycle Path in Oregon is not longer going to sell Turners due to the change. It is free market and like the stock market perception is everything. The HL may not be better than a seat stay link but many believe it is. It is the psychology of it. I'm guessing DT is being sued or threatened with a lawsuit and can't say much. The guys at Turner are good guys and very helpful.

    I'm on the my third year on my Spot with no pivot changes and zero noise. Wow! I live in a a rainy climate and just love my bike. I would not change it for any bike on the market. Would I buy a TNT Turner? Not sure, just being honest.

    Jaybo

    PS I would bet DT has some dough but probably is not filthy rich. But, I don't care if he is...this is America, baby, and the pursuit of wealth is a good thing.
    Yeah, it's crazy sometime how riled up these folks get. I hope DT is making a killing, but somehow I doubt it. I ran into a woman once from Cali who claimed to live down the stree from TE. According to her he's living large

    I'll be able to see first hand if the HL makes a difference pretty soon; I'm taking advantage of the 600 dollar trade in program to get a new 5-spot. I'm really gonna miss my XCE; I love that bike.

    Dave

  33. #33
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    Actually Turner did lower his price a 2002 xce cost 1995.00 and a 2003 5spot cost 1895.00

  34. #34
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    That is not DT price!

    Quote Originally Posted by creak
    Actually Turner did lower his price a 2002 xce cost 1995.00 and a 2003 5spot cost 1895.00
    The $1,995 or $1,895 are the seller's price. Turner's price is probably more around $700 - $1,000 for a frame. That is what the distributor or bike dealer pays for the frames. So when supergo was selling Burners for $900 , they were still making a few hundred bucks. The Burner frames were a bit cheaper that the spot, I think.

    So the bike shop is making a killing on the frames - it all goes back to econ 101 - supply and demand.
    Sit and spin my ass...

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zion Rasta
    The $1,995 or $1,895 are the seller's price. Turner's price is probably more around $700 - $1,000 for a frame. That is what the distributor or bike dealer pays for the frames. So when supergo was selling Burners for $900 , they were still making a few hundred bucks. The Burner frames were a bit cheaper that the spot, I think.

    So the bike shop is making a killing on the frames - it all goes back to econ 101 - supply and demand.


    Your not really even that close to the "dealer cost" yet rasta boy, your still low and not getting warmer.
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  36. #36
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    I was got a price on a shop buy for an RFX and I would have snatched it up if it was close to what Zion wrote above. I also got to see the dealer price on it.

    From what I've seen-
    XCE's were 1995, then was dropped toward the end to 1695.
    Burners lowered the price and then were blown out due to some factors, including a late delivery from the builders. Turner would not have sold them out for a loss, at least I don't think so. I think the structuring of Superho allowed an extremely narrow profit margin, used shocks that were Supergo supplied closeouts in themselves to better the deal on both ends, then also relied heavily on the idea that the buyer might buy the components from there.

    Price of the Flux dropped recently, as it did for the Nitrous. Even if the prices stayed the same since 2000, they have effectively dropped because they are not increasing with inflation.

  37. #37
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    yeah, those stinking filthy rich LBS owners

    Quote Originally Posted by Zion Rasta
    The $1,995 or $1,895 are the seller's price. Turner's price is probably more around $700 - $1,000 for a frame. That is what the distributor or bike dealer pays for the frames. So when supergo was selling Burners for $900 , they were still making a few hundred bucks. The Burner frames were a bit cheaper that the spot, I think.

    So the bike shop is making a killing on the frames - it all goes back to econ 101 - supply and demand.
    Driving their Porches and sipping their Don P. No wait a minute... In econ 202, they teach you things like overhead(salaries, rent, returns, etc...) Shock, horror bike shops need to mark up their wholesale prices to stay in business. There are lots of guys in the biz on these boards and they've posted on the 'economics' of the industry. No one in the LBS game is making a killing.

  38. #38
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    ???

    "DT is not saying anything on the subject"

    There's a nifty search feature on the board and you can read exactly what DT said.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaybo
    When an ant colony is attacked by an outside, the queen is protected first. The ants all run to protect the queen pronto. You have attacked the queen, DT, and the ants are running to protect. It is funny...DT could come out with a balsa wood frame and the homers would say it is as good as alloy because of some strength test in Malaysia.

    DT is not saying anything on the subject. I guess he feels he doesn't owe us an explanation or just can't; however, it is true that some may not choose to buy his bikes because of the change. Cycle Path in Oregon is not longer going to sell Turners due to the change. It is free market and like the stock market perception is everything. The HL may not be better than a seat stay link but many believe it is. It is the psychology of it. I'm guessing DT is being sued or threatened with a lawsuit and can't say much. The guys at Turner are good guys and very helpful.

    I'm on the my third year on my Spot with no pivot changes and zero noise. Wow! I live in a a rainy climate and just love my bike. I would not change it for any bike on the market. Would I buy a TNT Turner? Not sure, just being honest.

    Jaybo

    PS I would bet DT has some dough but probably is not filthy rich. But, I don't care if he is...this is America, baby, and the pursuit of wealth is a good thing.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by bullit71
    Hi,

    New to the Turner board, but was thinking about getting a Turner.

    I know:

    1.Turner dropped horst for his self name TNT.
    2.Read PLENTY of threads stating little performance difference between horst and TNT. So don't send me any links saying this topic has been beat to death.
    3.If this idea has already been covered, I apologize in advanced.

    So lets look at the facts - DT has to pay Specialized (I think) to add that link by rear derrailuer. He initially used this idea when starting bike company probably b/c he thought it was the best. Why would start company with second best ideas? Suddenly he decides to drop the link and start his own - thus not paying royalties to Specialized. You lose an extra link by derrailuer - which helps performance.

    Conclusion - he bought one too many Ferrari's and we have to pay for them. Or he needs a couple more houses and needs more money and we will pay for those too.

    You sir are an idiot.

  40. #40
    Natl. Champ DH Poser/Hack
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    im not at liberty to say and if i was i wouldnt none the less but the mark up on a turner is not much. not much at all. all thoughts of dt in a 3900 square foot mansion with $200000 cars parked out front is a bunch of hooie. hes the typical small buissiness owner and works hard to get by and do whats fun in the off time just as most of us do. another thing i know is hes a good human and a fine friend.

    all this talk of who paid who and how much it cost to do so is quite simply none of yer damn biz nor mine. yould be best served to drop this train of thought and figure out what ya wanna ride then buy it. its more about the bike and less about what the owner of the company lives in or drives. grow up kids. go ride a bike or help someone smile. maybe both.
    No, I'm NOT back!

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by wilks
    these type of threads should be ignored imo.i can only assume he is trying to get a rise and several people have bitten......ignore him and he'll go away
    Right on! I couldn't agree more. Maybe a sign could be posted:

    Do not feed the trolls.


  42. #42
    Zip
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    Two years ago I rode a friends 5 Spot and bought my own 1 month later, 2 of my ridding buddies rode my new Spot and 2 months later they bought their own (both these guys had no money so many garage sales were in order to buy them). This pattern has caused approximately 7 to 9 additional people to buy 5 Spots which were all spawned from me first riding one, then subsequently buying one. I had several dozen bikes before the Turner. Other than the 5 spot the only other bike I love to ride is My SC Chamelon HT.

    DT is a genius. I would buy a Turner again and again regardless of the price. I have quite a ebay history of buying and selling to prove it. Nothing I've owned (FS) has even come close to the Turner. And that includes an Enduro, Heckler and a Blur. I did like the Heckler a close third overall behind my SC HT.

    Flame on Bullit man!

  43. #43
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    So what is it?

    Quote Originally Posted by drumstix
    Your not really even that close to the "dealer cost" yet rasta boy, your still low and not getting warmer.
    So what is the dealer cost on a Turner frame?

    Post it if you know it.....
    Sit and spin my ass...

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zion Rasta
    So what is the dealer cost on a Turner frame?

    Post it if you know it.....
    No...................

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by bullit71
    Hi,

    New to the Turner board, but was thinking about getting a Turner.

    I know:

    1.Turner dropped horst for his self name TNT.
    2.Read PLENTY of threads stating little performance difference between horst and TNT. So don't send me any links saying this topic has been beat to death.
    3.If this idea has already been covered, I apologize in advanced.

    So lets look at the facts - DT has to pay Specialized (I think) to add that link by rear derrailuer. He initially used this idea when starting bike company probably b/c he thought it was the best. Why would start company with second best ideas? Suddenly he decides to drop the link and start his own - thus not paying royalties to Specialized. You lose an extra link by derrailuer - which helps performance.

    Conclusion - he bought one too many Ferrari's and we have to pay for them. Or he needs a couple more houses and needs more money and we will pay for those too.
    Nothing like a good troll.....


  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyN
    You sir are an idiot.
    That's an insult to idiots everywhere

  47. #47
    rr
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Shorts
    That's an insult to idiots everywhere
    Yeah I think they're giving bullit too much credit with the whole trolling thing

  48. #48
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    I would say DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT!

    Quote Originally Posted by Zion Rasta
    Remember one thing. To stay in business you alway have to do better than the year before. If DT does not generate enough cash flow to pay his obligations he will go bankrupt or someone else will buy him in (Like Tony). He did what he had to do. The royalties that he had to pay to Specializd and TE come right out of the bottom line. He came up with a way to save some cash, save the company, and pass, the best he could, some similar (TNT) technology to us. The bikes are still well made and if 1mm difference matters to you then go buy an Ellsworth.

    The worst thing that can happen is for the company to go bankrupt or a hostile take over by Pacific bicycles. Remember when GT's were cool???.......
    I apparently got one of the last HL 5 Spots and am very happy with it; however, after getting some time on it I will throw this out there: the awesome geometry, build quality, and suspension action of this bike outweights any HL vs. TNT debate. If I were shelling out money to get a Turner now, I would not hesitate at all to get the TNT. Just don't worry about it!!!

    If anything, the rear end will be stiffer.... which is already stiff, and it is I who needs to learn the habit of applying more body english in turns, rather than braking

    I love this bike and plan to keep it for a very, very long time.

    Oh one more thing - get the DHX Air if you can, if is very plush and feels very, probably "coil like".

    I'm out

  49. #49
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    Intense cost to dealer is $700

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    No...................
    The cost of an Intense 6.6 frame to a dealer is $700. How much more do you think turner frames are to a dealer?

    Anyone? Come on! It is not like this is top secret info.
    Sit and spin my ass...

  50. #50
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    Have to disagree with you about the Transition Preston

    Quote Originally Posted by MK_
    And durability is another huge issue. I've ridden a Preston FR for a day, it was about half a season old, and definatelly not ridden to its potential, and the thing felt really used. Same thing happened to a buddy of mine's Heckler. After a season the bike felt a decade old. With Turners, longevity is a huge part of their appeal. Not to mention their ability to morph.

    _MK
    I know your main point is to put in a plug for the Turner and that's cool. I own a 5 Spot and love it. I also just ordered a Transition Dirtbag, so that I can have a bike that will allow me to take my riding to another level......

    There are two people who come to mind in the area where I live here in Boise, who have ridden the **** out of their Transition Prestons, both here and on the north shore. I have SEEN what they do on the bikes, and they have had zero complaints about the longvevity, reliability, loss of "new" or crisp feeling, or any other issue with the bikes. These guys go big, and I do mean big; I have seen it. And if there were issues, I feel confident a company like Transition would/will take care of their customers. ON their website they have a lifetime crash replacement policy. If you LOOK at the bikes, the bearings are big, and heck, the bikes are made so beefy, they will take more than the average "Joe" (to borrow Kona phrase) or more than I can ever throw down - just look at the tubing and the thickness of the seat and chain stays!

    It's great to have a "beautiful" bike the 5 Spot, but I am glad I ordered a Transition for a big bike, rather than getting more in debt to get an RFX or some other expensive big bike!

    Does that make sense?

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