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  1. #1
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    DGC: any more feedback on the Minute 1.0?

    I have been messing around with my Vanilla 125 for a month now and have not been able to figure out what is wrong with the poor thing My shop has looked at it twice (good mechanic too.) I am only getting 3.5 inches of travel--period. I have changed the oil multiple time and have played around with volumes. (I use an laboratory automatic pipet so my I know my volumes are dead on. The fork has served me very well over the past 2 years but I am sick of have it perform sub par on my most recent rides.

    Anyway...

    Any word on the Minute 1.0 on your spot. I was thinking of getting a Firefly as ALL of my riding buddies are now riding shermans of one kind or another and they have nothing but glowing things to say about them. Also, not one of them has had a single problem even with much "abuse." I still might go with the firefly but thought I would wait to hear about the minute 1.0 first. Thanks.

  2. #2
    DGC
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    some feedback

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaak
    I have been messing around with my Vanilla 125 for a month now and have not been able to figure out what is wrong with the poor thing My shop has looked at it twice (good mechanic too.) I am only getting 3.5 inches of travel--period. I have changed the oil multiple time and have played around with volumes. (I use an laboratory automatic pipet so my I know my volumes are dead on. The fork has served me very well over the past 2 years but I am sick of have it perform sub par on my most recent rides.

    Anyway...

    Any word on the Minute 1.0 on your spot. I was thinking of getting a Firefly as ALL of my riding buddies are now riding shermans of one kind or another and they have nothing but glowing things to say about them. Also, not one of them has had a single problem even with much "abuse." I still might go with the firefly but thought I would wait to hear about the minute 1.0 first. Thanks.
    First off, if you have a stock 2002 Vanilla and are not getting full travel, it generally was the over damped compression on the 2002 fork, if its the 2003, then something might be wrong.
    My Minute 1:00 has about 60 miles on it, not a bunch, but the same rides I did all winter on the Vanilla. First off, the steering seems to be about the same as the Vanilla, even though it has 30mm legs, it has a big long skirt of a crown draping over the top of the stancions adding stiffness to that area, and a beefier lower leg assembly than Vanilla IMO, and the reverse arch thing. So as far as a few rides go, it seems to feel about the same stiffness. Weight was 4 pounds even before cutting the steerer. The medium and big hit performance of the Minute is excellent. I would say a little better than the Vanilla, but not by much. The small bump performance is where the Vanilla excells over the Manitou. I have gotten away with 15 psi. in the SPV chamber, until I started to get a little knock, otherwise at about 25 psi. its gone. The lower psi. allows for a slightly plusher ride. I have been running a lot lower than reccomended. I do notice the lack of wallow in the Minute over the Vanilla, riding through dips, woops etc. is where you would feel the wallow in the Vanilla, the Minute just stands up better in its travel, it just needs some lighter valving in the small bump area. You get more control through the deep braking bumps and woops the motorcycles have made, high speed sharp edged hits actually are smoothed out well, its really the slow speed stuff that bothers my hands a touch, but I also have problems in my hands so dont read a bunch into this.
    The travel wind down thing is fine I guess, I was and still am not really into that kinda thing, it lowers the front on really steep stuff, but I just got use to it on my Vanilla at 125mm all the time. The Minute delivers every mm of the claimed 130mm travel too. Generally with the Swinger 3 way air on back and the Minute up front, the bike stays much more level in many different situations, not the pitching fore and aft the Fox would do. All in all, I like the Minute enough to stay with it for now, it also matches the swinger 3 way air much better than the Vanilla does. And........no dreaded Fox clunk or mysterious noises, kinda nice running a quiet fork. I am interested to see how it does on our local trails in a few weeks as they start to open, trails that are a lot more demanding then the winter stuff, though Auburn does have excellent trails to test suspension stuff on. Thats it for now.
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  3. #3
    Daniel the Dog
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    My gawd! Both ends are Manitou. I'm going to puke.....

    Quote Originally Posted by DGC
    First off, if you have a stock 2002 Vanilla and are not getting full travel, it generally was the over damped compression on the 2002 fork, if its the 2003, then something might be wrong.
    My Minute 1:00 has about 60 miles on it, not a bunch, but the same rides I did all winter on the Vanilla. First off, the steering seems to be about the same as the Vanilla, even though it has 30mm legs, it has a big long skirt of a crown draping over the top of the stancions adding stiffness to that area, and a beefier lower leg assembly than Vanilla IMO, and the reverse arch thing. So as far as a few rides go, it seems to feel about the same stiffness. Weight was 4 pounds even before cutting the steerer. The medium and big hit performance of the Minute is excellent. I would say a little better than the Vanilla, but not by much. The small bump performance is where the Vanilla excells over the Manitou. I have gotten away with 15 psi. in the SPV chamber, until I started to get a little knock, otherwise at about 25 psi. its gone. The lower psi. allows for a slightly plusher ride. I have been running a lot lower than reccomended. I do notice the lack of wallow in the Minute over the Vanilla, riding through dips, woops etc. is where you would feel the wallow in the Vanilla, the Minute just stands up better in its travel, it just needs some lighter valving in the small bump area. You get more control through the deep braking bumps and woops the motorcycles have made, high speed sharp edged hits actually are smoothed out well, its really the slow speed stuff that bothers my hands a touch, but I also have problems in my hands so dont read a bunch into this.
    The travel wind down thing is fine I guess, I was and still am not really into that kinda thing, it lowers the front on really steep stuff, but I just got use to it on my Vanilla at 125mm all the time. The Minute delivers every mm of the claimed 130mm travel too. Generally with the Swinger 3 way air on back and the Minute up front, the bike stays much more level in many different situations, not the pitching fore and aft the Fox would do. All in all, I like the Minute enough to stay with it for now, it also matches the swinger 3 way air much better than the Vanilla does. And........no dreaded Fox clunk or mysterious noises, kinda nice running a quiet fork. I am interested to see how it does on our local trails in a few weeks as they start to open, trails that are a lot more demanding then the winter stuff, though Auburn does have excellent trails to test suspension stuff on. Thats it for now.
    I just barfed! I feel better. Kidding. I thought you didn't like the feel of an air shock on the Turner. How does that Swinger feel compared to the Romic. I bet you lost 1.5 lbs in the swap. That would be nice. However, is small bump compliance lost?

    Thanks,

    Jaybo

    PS I am liking Manitou's new stuff. Old stuff sucked!

  4. #4
    DGC
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    ... and if we just ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaybo
    I just barfed! I feel better. Kidding. I thought you didn't like the feel of an air shock on the Turner. How does that Swinger feel compared to the Romic. I bet you lost 1.5 lbs in the swap. That would be nice. However, is small bump compliance lost?

    Thanks,

    Jaybo

    PS I am liking Manitou's new stuff. Old stuff sucked!

    The Romic still is better in small bump action and how active it feels in chatter, but the small bump difference is quite small, the Swinger is better than any air shock I have tried. I still am reserved about air shocks, weight is about 1 pound saved vs. a #500 steel Romic spring. With the Ti spring, the ones done correctly it is about a 1/2 pound difference. Were you about to barf from climbing too long a hill on a heavier bike?

  5. #5
    No, that's not phonetic
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    I agree with everything DGC said about the Minute. I demoed a Minute 3:00 (130mm travel air) for a day on a Yeti 575. I would like to add to his comments that bottoming control is very very good. Personally I did not care for the SPV action at pressures above about 50psi (just to be crazy I pumped it up to 130psi at one point- yuck). It just felt like a stictiony air shock to me. The behavior was NOT like the pleasant seamless platform of a rear shock. It just seemed sticky and lame. At lower SPV pressures however, it ran a lot like a Vanilla but with a more linear feeling stroke, more subtle bottom-out, and perhaps slightly superior compression dampening overall. The lower brake post was too fat and my rotor rubbed on the fork slightly (King Iso hubs). The finish on the fork was nice. The lockdown located at the bottom of the leg was nearly useless because you had to stop to reach it. An nice fork, but I guess I'd try a Zoke before I'd buy a Minute at this point. I don't see the point of SPV in forks with the way it has been implemented so far.

    tscheezy
    Last edited by tscheezy; 04-06-2004 at 10:02 PM.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  6. #6
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    Could you compare and contrast to a Talas

    Quote Originally Posted by tscheezy
    I agree with everything DGC said about the Minute. I demoed a Minute 3:00 (130mm travel coil) for a day on a Yeti 575. I would like to add to his comments that bottoming control is very very good. Personally I did not care for the SPV action at pressures above about 50psi (just to be crazy I pumped it up to 130psi at one point- yuck). It just felt like a stictiony air shock to me. The behavior was NOT like the pleasant seamless platform of a rear shock. It just seemed sticky and lame. At lower SPV pressures however, it ran a lot like a Vanilla but with a more linear feeling stroke, more subtle bottom-out, and perhaps slightly superior compression dampening overall. The lower brake post was too fat and my rotor rubbed on the fork slightly (King Iso hubs). The finish on the fork was nice. The lockdown located at the bottom of the leg was nearly useless because you had to stop to reach it. An nice fork, but I guess I'd try a Zoke before I'd buy a Minute at this point. I don't see the point of SPV in forks with the way it has been implemented so far.

    tscheezy
    I was wondering if either of you have ridden a Talas (of which I have previously owned) and could discuss how the Minute (SPV included and aside) compared, esp. the 3.0, being an air fork itself.

    Thanks and great comments above.
    Last edited by Jaak; 04-06-2004 at 04:56 PM.

  7. #7
    DGC
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    and more........

    Quote Originally Posted by tscheezy
    I agree with everything DGC said about the Minute. I demoed a Minute 3:00 (130mm travel coil) for a day on a Yeti 575. I would like to add to his comments that bottoming control is very very good. Personally I did not care for the SPV action at pressures above about 50psi (just to be crazy I pumped it up to 130psi at one point- yuck). It just felt like a stictiony air shock to me. The behavior was NOT like the pleasant seamless platform of a rear shock. It just seemed sticky and lame. At lower SPV pressures however, it ran a lot like a Vanilla but with a more linear feeling stroke, more subtle bottom-out, and perhaps slightly superior compression dampening overall. The lower brake post was too fat and my rotor rubbed on the fork slightly (King Iso hubs). The finish on the fork was nice. The lockdown located at the bottom of the leg was nearly useless because you had to stop to reach it. An nice fork, but I guess I'd try a Zoke before I'd buy a Minute at this point. I don't see the point of SPV in forks with the way it has been implemented so far.

    tscheezy
    The lack of small bump performance in the Minute forks are being delt with and changed for 2005, and the 2005 parts will be able to be retro fitted into the 04 forks. I believe next years SPV forks performance will be like the current SPV rear shocks are now. Also worth noting Tscheezy, I just rebuilt the rear swinger, found very little if any lube inside, all I did was an air sleeve maintenance, the shock is even more small bump sensitive than it was when you tried it, now that it has slick honey inside it.

  8. #8
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    Have the 04 Fox Vanilla forx changed at all, thanks

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  9. #9
    DGC
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    Talas fork

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaak
    I was wondering if either of you have ridden a Talas (of which I have previously owned) and could discuss how the Minute (SPV included and aside) compared, esp. the 3.0, being an air fork itself.

    Thanks and great comments above.
    The Talas and Minute seem quite close to each other in small bump performance maybe a slight bit smoother on the Talas with real small stuff at slow speed, same sized small stuff at higher speeds and the Minute gets the nod as the SPV threshold is overcome. The Minute bottom out control and mid stroke is much nicer than the Talas. For additional comparrison, the Vanilla is closer to the Minute in medium and big hit performance, still the Minute is better there, the Vanilla clearly better on small bumps where wallow is not an issue. The 2 forks work differently in the slow speed compression, If you hit stuff with enough speed and or it is sharp edged jagged terrain, then the Minute blows open and is quite plush and controlled feeling, the Minute will not wallow in its travel the way the Talas does, and Talas sits deep in its travel with little control. I also find lighter riders on the Talas have a tough time getting the fork to extend fully at lower air pressures to give any where near the claimed travel. Some give and take with both forks, the better choice really depends on the rider and terrain.
    Look closely at the 2 pictures I've included, this terrain has the need for slow speed damping written all over it, and it is the type terrain I ride the most, at least 75% of the time. The Manitou Minute should be a huge positive difference over the Talas.
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  10. #10
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    Your terain looks identical to what I typically ride

    Quote Originally Posted by DGC
    The Talas and Minute seem quite close to each other in small bump performance maybe a slight bit smoother on the Talas with real small stuff at slow speed, same sized small stuff at higher speeds and the Minute gets the nod as the SPV threshold is overcome. The Minute bottom out control and mid stroke is much nicer than the Talas. For additional comparrison, the Vanilla is closer to the Minute in medium and big hit performance, still the Minute is better there, the Vanilla clearly better on small bumps where wallow is not an issue. The 2 forks work differently in the slow speed compression, If you hit stuff with enough speed and or it is sharp edged jagged terrain, then the Minute blows open and is quite plush and controlled feeling, the Minute will not wallow in its travel the way the Talas does, and Talas sits deep in its travel with little control. I also find lighter riders on the Talas have a tough time getting the fork to extend fully at lower air pressures to give any where near the claimed travel. Some give and take with both forks, the better choice really depends on the rider and terrain.
    Look closely at the 2 pictures I've included, this terrain has the need for slow speed damping written all over it, and it is the type terrain I ride the most, at least 75% of the time. The Manitou Minute should be a huge positive difference over the Talas.
    I thought for a second those pics were taken locally here where I ride (except the foliage is different here in the northeast.)

    Thanks again for the comments. Have you ridden a Firefly yet? If so how does it compare to the above forks? My Vanilla is back at my shop and am hoping (optimistically)it will be ready for a night ride tonight. The Minute is looking like a real good choice right now. I would probably go with the 1 or 2 (most likely the 1 for its coil) as travel adjust doesn't interest me so I wouldn't want to pay for it. In the end the best would be if they can figure out what has gone wrong with my vanilla. Not looking good right now though.

    Can you also talk more about the slow speed compresion advantages of the minute--esp with regards to the terain you pictured. Thanks.

  11. #11
    DGC
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    in short

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaak
    I thought for a second those pics were taken locally here where I ride (except the foliage is different here in the northeast.)

    Thanks again for the comments. Have you ridden a Firefly yet? If so how does it compare to the above forks? My Vanilla is back at my shop and am hoping (optimistically)it will be ready for a night ride tonight. The Minute is looking like a real good choice right now. I would probably go with the 1 or 2 (most likely the 1 for its coil) as travel adjust doesn't interest me so I wouldn't want to pay for it. In the end the best would be if they can figure out what has gone wrong with my vanilla. Not looking good right now though.

    Can you also talk more about the slow speed compresion advantages of the minute--esp with regards to the terain you pictured. Thanks.
    I dont have any time the rest of the week, so all I can tell is the slow speed compression damping helps keep the fork from diving and or blowing through the travel while rolling off stairs and rocks, basically at slow speeds, keeps it from wallowing in the travel too, helps a bunch in brake dive. Ive not ridden a firefly.

  12. #12
    Do It Yourself
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    Quote Originally Posted by DGC
    The lack of small bump performance in the Minute forks are being delt with and changed for 2005, and the 2005 parts will be able to be retro fitted into the 04 forks. I believe next years SPV forks performance will be like the current SPV rear shocks are now. Also worth noting Tscheezy, I just rebuilt the rear swinger, found very little if any lube inside, all I did was an air sleeve maintenance, the shock is even more small bump sensitive than it was when you tried it, now that it has slick honey inside it.
    Fox is now recommending Float Fluid for the air sleeve. It is supposed to be less stiction than Slick Honey but increase service intervals (wears off quicker). It would probably work out well on the Swinger also.

  13. #13
    Daniel the Dog
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    I could not agree more!

    Quote Originally Posted by tscheezy
    I agree with everything DGC said about the Minute. I demoed a Minute 3:00 (130mm travel air) for a day on a Yeti 575. I would like to add to his comments that bottoming control is very very good. Personally I did not care for the SPV action at pressures above about 50psi (just to be crazy I pumped it up to 130psi at one point- yuck). It just felt like a stictiony air shock to me. The behavior was NOT like the pleasant seamless platform of a rear shock. It just seemed sticky and lame. At lower SPV pressures however, it ran a lot like a Vanilla but with a more linear feeling stroke, more subtle bottom-out, and perhaps slightly superior compression dampening overall. The lower brake post was too fat and my rotor rubbed on the fork slightly (King Iso hubs). The finish on the fork was nice. The lockdown located at the bottom of the leg was nearly useless because you had to stop to reach it. An nice fork, but I guess I'd try a Zoke before I'd buy a Minute at this point. I don't see the point of SPV in forks with the way it has been implemented so far.

    tscheezy
    I have ridden SPV forks and was not super impressed. I rode an '04 Firefly. However, in the rear SPV is very cool. I'm probably being a crummudgeon, but I am waiting for shelling lots of dough on a SPV fork. Besides, the Minute serious will be $300 by this winter. The time to buy them.

    Jaybo

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