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  1. #1
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    Dave teasing us on Facebook - new Sultan? with a different Fox shock

    Dave teasing us on Facebook - new Sultan? with a different Fox shock-10897877_10153013343206970_2138310965760743728_n.jpg

    Dave teasing us on Facebook - new Sultan? with a different Fox shock-10897818_10153013343271970_3571911820787582304_n.jpg
    Last edited by PuddleDuck; 2 Weeks Ago at 09:36 PM.

  2. #2
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    Dave teasing us on Facebook - new Burner? with a different Fox shock

    Almost anything would be better than the stock fox I'm sure. It's the only thing keeping the Burner from really being amazeballs.

  3. #3
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    Are we sure that isn't a Sultan? Or maybe its just a tiny Burner?

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    Looks like a 29er for sure.

  5. #5
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    Good pick up, I've changed the title.

  6. #6
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    plain old Sultan, with new top and down tube. Love that bike, as I was flowing around the massively shoveled berms on skidmarks I was thinking that the only way this thing could go faster was with someone else on it. i.e. an inch shorter chainstay and and inchs ++ longer front center (slacker ha) would not make me any faster, safer, radder or have me flicking turns like a video pro. I really have been thinking about the other thread with Sultan geometry suggestions.... but this bike still is a pleasure to put 3 hours on.

  7. #7
    t.e.c.1
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes View Post
    plain old Sultan, with new top and down tube. Love that bike, as I was flowing around the massively shoveled berms on skidmarks I was thinking that the only way this thing could go faster was with someone else on it. i.e. an inch shorter chainstay and and inchs ++ longer front center (slacker ha) would not make me any faster, safer, radder or have me flicking turns like a video pro. I really have been thinking about the other thread with Sultan geometry suggestions.... but this bike still is a pleasure to put 3 hours on.
    Turnerbikes, you guys got what you wanted with the Czar. Now would you please, wi th cherries on top, give us what we want? I don't think that's too much to ask. Carbon my Burner or my Sultan or I'll end up dropping them for lighter, almost as capable, carbon DW linked bikes. You don't even need to change the geometries. Your customers have been suggesting longer legged carbon bikes for years. Hook us up, guys!

  8. #8
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    Having both the Ibis HDR and the Turner burner in the house with identical parts the weight difference between the frames (with shocks) are 200grams.

    Weight really isn't turners weak side, neither is strength.. i'd love to see one just for shit and giggles but if you are turning down the burner because of weight you'll be disappointed when you get your carbon whatever, as there is not that much saved. That said if your eyes are set on carbon and DW link - the Ibis HD3 will be awesome, you'll have a great time on one, but don't expect the weight difference to be something magical that teleports you to the top of the mountain Also prepare yourself for bearing changes. Both ibis and pivot is weak in that department where with turners you don't have to think about it.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes View Post
    plain old Sultan, with new top and down tube. Love that bike, as I was flowing around the massively shoveled berms on skidmarks I was thinking that the only way this thing could go faster was with someone else on it. i.e. an inch shorter chainstay and and inchs ++ longer front center (slacker ha) would not make me any faster, safer, radder or have me flicking turns like a video pro. I really have been thinking about the other thread with Sultan geometry suggestions.... but this bike still is a pleasure to put 3 hours on.
    Are you sure, Dave? Maybe you wouldn't be faster, but I bet you'd sell more Sultans/Burners. Would you sell enough to offset the costs of retooling etc? I have no idea. That's your department. I'm not suggesting you change just for the sake of change if you don't believe it will make the bike better (and I know you well enough to know you wouldn't), but people are clamoring for the new geometry for a reason. Maybe the hype is legit, maybe it's just media/industry BS, and we're all just a bunch of lemmings, but my limited experience on bikes of this ilk have left a smile on my face.

    I think there's something to it.

  10. #10
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    Ya know what, the "new" geometry sucks. I've ridden a bike with a longer front center and shorter stays, and the compromises needed to make that happen make for an uncomfortable ride. Those bikes end up with the seat tube all jacked up at weird angle and effectively put you too much over the BB like a road bike. The new hotness isn't always the best hotness.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdakaR View Post
    Having both the Ibis HDR and the Turner burner in the house with identical parts the weight difference between the frames (with shocks) are 200grams.

    Weight really isn't turners weak side, neither is strength.. i'd love to see one just for shit and giggles but if you are turning down the burner because of weight you'll be disappointed when you get your carbon whatever, as there is not that much saved. That said if your eyes are set on carbon and DW link - the Ibis HD3 will be awesome, you'll have a great time on one, but don't expect the weight difference to be something magical that teleports you to the top of the mountain Also prepare yourself for bearing changes. Both ibis and pivot is weak in that department where with turners you don't have to think about it.
    I still remember when Pivot started making carbon frames. The 5.7 or whatever model it was only gained 8% in stiffness and 200gram weight savings but a nice $ increase. I don't know how they calculate the stiffness increase but with it being in the single digits I wouldn't really take it being stiffer into consideration. I'd rather spend the money on better components.
    Killing it with close inspection.

  12. #12
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    I wouldn't want a carbon Sultan, just one that has a slightly longer top tube and a Chainstay in the Czar territory.

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    Haha KRob, you are completely correct, shorter stays will sell more frames. Getting right on that!

    Will I change the geo? Of course, I have been changing for 20+ years and a slacker HA will make the Sultan even more stable at turn-in. Yes the stays are longer than most, so that will have to change too and I am sure it will be better for those of us that weren't born with wheelie gene when we want to lift over a pile of rocks in the trail. Will it be as much change as the loudest interweb pontificators want? Of course not, I know most of them type better than they ride or they would be the stars of their own videos blowing our minds with 30mph manuals and slashing and drifting thru the woods like Luke or Fabien. And to Alien's point, the new geo is not for everyone.... which is my point. Next time ya'll is on a ride watch the riders in front of you, that's how 'we' ride not like the latest YouTube marketing vids from brand XYZ. Beware the hype, even when it is mine haha!!

  14. #14
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    Well said Dave.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes View Post
    Next time ya'll is on a ride watch the riders in front of you, that's how 'we' ride
    Now that you mention it, the only riders in front of me are on 26" Enduros with 16.5" chainstays.

    There's obviously more to a bike than how short the chainstays are, but if there's one trendy metric I'm not worried about bike designers getting too carried away with, that's it.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes View Post
    .... I know most of them type better than they ride.....
    Not always.

    See any BikeRumor comments section for examples.
    The drive towards achievement and success is the motive power of civilization.

  17. #17
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    I would not have purchased a Flux v3 if it had a 24.5" top tube like the Flux v2.....that's way to short for me. Two of the best fitting bikes I've had are the Flux v3 and the 2000 Gary Fisher Sugar. I like long top tubes and short stems......always have and will not change.

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    This is getting interesting...
    It makes me think of holding off on a Burner... I miss my '11 Sultan. But I refuse to admit that to my ride buddies and the guy I sold it to haha!

  19. #19
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    The cool thing about Turner bikes, besides their ride, is they have become competitive with the big brands. You can buy a sub 4k Turner with good parts. I was a day late to jump on a large CZAR or I would have picked one up. For me 2.2k frame is a lot more reasonable than nearly 3k. Just me.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireLikeIYA View Post
    I still remember when Pivot started making carbon frames. The 5.7 or whatever model it was only gained 8% in stiffness and 200gram weight savings but a nice $ increase. I don't know how they calculate the stiffness increase but with it being in the single digits I wouldn't really take it being stiffer into consideration. I'd rather spend the money on better components.
    I'm still not excited about carbon for trails bikes.

    I know people keep saying this and that about the impact resistance of carbon - but the fact is I see many many carbon frames fail when tossed into rocks.

    In the Bay Area it seems like many people buy a carbon frame and ride it for 1 season before replacing it with another.
    Stupid, but sometimes witty. Occasionally brilliant. Slow and fat though.

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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes View Post
    Haha KRob, you are completely correct, shorter stays will sell more frames. Getting right on that!

    Will I change the geo? Of course, I have been changing for 20+ years and a slacker HA will make the Sultan even more stable at turn-in. Yes the stays are longer than most, so that will have to change too and I am sure it will be better for those of us that weren't born with wheelie gene when we want to lift over a pile of rocks in the trail. Will it be as much change as the loudest interweb pontificators want? Of course not, I know most of them type better than they ride or they would be the stars of their own videos blowing our minds with 30mph manuals and slashing and drifting thru the woods like Luke or Fabien. And to Alien's point, the new geo is not for everyone.... which is my point. Next time ya'll is on a ride watch the riders in front of you, that's how 'we' ride not like the latest YouTube marketing vids from brand XYZ. Beware the hype, even when it is mine haha!!
    I really just want a lighter frame with similar geo and travel. Can it change a little? Yes, it can. Does it need to? Definitely not. A large Sultan or Burner frame weighs 7.1 lbs. A large Czar is 5.4 lbs. Is there any reason you couldn't shave at least a pound off their weight if they were made with carbon?

    At the end of the day, it feels like I'm getting punked by a guy who's faster than me:-) Which is fine because I'm used to it but the guy rides a carbon Czar(almost), everywhere, including Downiville. Must feel nice going up and relieving coming down? Maybe this year you take the Kahn up there? Seems capable enough.

    Don't you like reading the Czar reviews that talk about how amazing and capable of a bike it is? Especially for having such short travel, which is most test riders only complaint. Wouldn't you like to see that kind of excitement about other bikes in the lineup? You are losing customers to other boutique builders. Why not just help them from having to look elsewhere? Just a thought.

    Cheers

  22. #22
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    Sorry for confusion '4life, I meant longer TT in the current sense, not what Turner Bikes has done in the past. I have never produced bikes with what is today considered lonnng. Mondraker is long, everything else is shorter. Maybe in a few years everyones medium frames will have +/- 622mm TT lengths? As for the Sultan, it needs to be long ger,, not lonnnng. I am really apprehensive about lonnng top tubes, so many riders are already on short stems and a spacer or few... so more stretch is going to make for uncomfortable backs.

    tec, I guess you are un-aware of the various $izes of different 'boutique' companies and the size of the bills req'd to produce a single prototype carbon bike, let alone take a size run to production. I would love to make a dozen different models and offer them all in a carbon option. You buying?!

    DT

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes View Post
    Sorry for confusion '4life, I meant longer TT in the current sense, not what Turner Bikes has done in the past. I have never produced bikes with what is today considered lonnng. Mondraker is long, everything else is shorter. Maybe in a few years everyones medium frames will have +/- 622mm TT lengths? As for the Sultan, it needs to be long ger,, not lonnnng. I am really apprehensive about lonnng top tubes, so many riders are already on short stems and a spacer or few... so more stretch is going to make for uncomfortable backs.

    DT
    i would love to see the GEO on the new sultan come in similar to that of the kona process 111, banshee phantom, transition smuggler ( not as slack as those last two ) types of bikes. I rode a process and really enjoyed it. probably no chance for me to demo the others ( or even this theoretical new Sultan for that matter ). But, given that my v1 sultan is still going strong after 7-8 years, i wouldn't have any doubts keeping the turner name on my down tube.

  24. #24
    t.e.c.1
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    tec, I guess you are un-aware of the various $izes of different 'boutique' companies and the size of the bills req'd to produce a single prototype carbon bike, let alone take a size run to production. I would love to make a dozen different models and offer them all in a carbon option. You buying?!

    DT[/QUOTE]

    Dave, thank you for your answer. I just wanted to hear it from the horses mouth that you wouldn't be making a new carbon frame any time soon. I will just have to get a Czar or look elsewhere for my next ride. Meanwhile, I'll keep my Sultan and be happy that I can own one. I'd be stoked to see you do one or two more carbon frames, though. Tops! Thank you for your time.

    Cheers

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by t.e.c.1 View Post
    I just wanted to hear it from the horses mouth that you wouldn't be making a new carbon frame any time soon.

    Cheers
    That's a complete misrepresentation of what he said.
    Stupid, but sometimes witty. Occasionally brilliant. Slow and fat though.

    Specialized sucks dong

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