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  1. #1
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    Dave rippin' it on the 27.5+ sultan

    Just saw this photo of Dave on his 27.5+ tired Sultan. Looks like a hoot!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Dave rippin' it on the 27.5+ sultan-turner-27.5-.jpg  

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  2. #2
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    Dave rippin' it on the 27.5+ sultan

    Good spot KRob!

  3. #3
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    Dave rippin' it on the 27.5+ sultan

    (I feel like have been sleeping. Had to google what 27+ actually means)

  4. #4
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    Looks good alright, makes me wonder if instead of a new wheel size we really just needed bigger tyres and more clearance on our 26" bikes....

  5. #5
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    All the chatter on my side of the desk has been about 275 Plus for the last several months and then last week a tire co sent a drawing around of their forth coming 2.8 and 3.0 Plus tires with amended notes for 26" rim diameter. The subject line on email said 'would these fit in any of your 275 frames'? why YES they will fit quite nicely in a Burner! Looks like fatter is the futurer.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes View Post
    All the chatter on my side of the desk has been about 275 Plus for the last several months and then last week a tire co sent a drawing around of their forth coming 2.8 and 3.0 Plus tires with amended notes for 26" rim diameter. The subject line on email said 'would these fit in any of your 275 frames'? why YES they will fit quite nicely in a Burner! Looks like fatter is the futurer.
    Will it fit in a Sultan too?
    When trails gets tougher, Just stand up and deliver.

  7. #7
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    Oh wait!
    I may have misunderstood it.

    a 26'x2.8-3.0 will fit nicely into a Burner!

    Sounds not like 27.5+ to fit on anything else???
    When trails gets tougher, Just stand up and deliver.

  8. #8
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    275 Plus is whats on the Sultan, but 3.25 is very close to fork, as in buzzing the paint raceable rideable in dry

  9. #9
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    Thanks DT, Now that's fun!
    When trails gets tougher, Just stand up and deliver.

  10. #10
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    The next question then would be;

    1.What is the widest 27.5+ could fit nicely on the Sultan then? 2.8 or 3???
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  11. #11
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    And ideally what width of rim for that 2.8 or 3?

  12. #12
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    Dave rippin' it on the 27.5+ sultan

    DT, in your experiment, have you tried it on the Czar? Will the 27.5+ fit the Czar too???


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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by lanruss View Post
    And ideally what width of rim for that 2.8 or 3?
    Well the picture above shows them on Enve rims, they are only 25mm wide internally at the widest.

  14. #14
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    You're right, there is a significant light bulb shape happening there that I didn't notice before. I thought maybe he got some prototype rims to go with the prototype tires.

  15. #15
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  16. #16
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    Optimum rim size will be 35mm or wider inside dimension. I am using ENVE AM rims with the Vee Tires, not full width, but I don't think the tires would fit if I had proper width rims. Tire factories are all using 45mm ID for tire shape drawings whatever that is worth. I can run under 15psi with 'skinny' rims no problem so 35 should be good, 45s better. Keep in mind that fork clearance with skinny rims and 3.25 is MINIMAL. Plenty on top, not much on side. I will try to stuff the rear wheel into the Czar but it is doubtful.

    I just ordered some 26" rims and will order up some QBP 26+ tires to fit on Burner. This big traction thing has me intrigued. Blame it on the Khan!

    edit: There is no freakin way the 2.8 on a ENVE AM rim will work with the Czar. It just fits with 3 hairs clearance between side knobs and stays.
    Last edited by turnerbikes; 03-05-2015 at 09:16 PM. Reason: more info

  17. #17
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    What is the end result BB height for this 2 experiments?

    1. Burner with 26+
    2. Sultan with 27.5+

    Thank you DT,
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  18. #18
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    I got a chance to ride a Kona Process 111 with 2.8" WTB Trail Blazer 27.5+ on 35mm velocity blunt (30mm ID, I think) rims a few weeks back and Dusty from Hubsessed Cycle Works who built the bike up said the wheels dropped the bb a little less than a 1/2" IIRC.

    It was a freakin' riot to ride. So much traction and so much cush.
    Last edited by KRob; 03-12-2015 at 04:50 AM.
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  19. #19
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    How is the cornering with these + sizes?

  20. #20
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    awesome. the surface area increase is bigger, more traction. Not as much as Khan but way more flickable

  21. #21
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    And now we have a fork for it:

    New 2016 Fox 34 FLOAT 27.5+ goes wide to fit plus-sized mountain bike tires!

    But great, another axle size!

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes View Post
    awesome. the surface area increase is bigger, more traction. Not as much as Khan but way more flickable
    I agree. These things stuck in some loose flat BBs over hard pack corners that just blew my mind. It was a little unnerving because I kept expecting them to give or slide a little or something but the didn't budge. You almost have to relearn cornering technique.
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by KRob View Post
    I got a chance to ride a Kona Process 111 with 2.8" WTB Trail Blazer 27.5+ on 35mm velocity blunt (30mm ID, I think) rims a few weeks back and Dusty from Hubsessed Cycle Works who built the bike up said the wheels dropped the bb a little less than a 1/2" IIRC.

    It was a freakin' riot to ride. So much traction and so much cush.
    Looks like the link wasn't working Kent. Here it is again.

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  24. #24
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    i'm interested, but i really feel the difference in rotating weight when going from lighter to heavier tires on my 29er. alot can be canceled out if the tread pattern makes the tire a fast roller - is that the case with WTB trailblazer?

    and

    anybody know if 27.5+ fits in the rear triangle of the old version of the sultan (TNT)?

    and

    maybe that strange new 148mm rear standard from Trek would be helpful for fitting 27.5+ out back? maybe a good idea to implement on sultan v3?

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by starre View Post
    i'm interested, but i really feel the difference in rotating weight when going from lighter to heavier tires on my 29er. alot can be canceled out if the tread pattern makes the tire a fast roller - is that the case with WTB trailblazer?
    For what it's worth, my 2.8 Trailblazer tires weigh less than my 29er tires.
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  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by KRob View Post
    Just saw this photo of Dave on his 27.5+ tired Sultan. Looks like a hoot!
    The question I've been dying to ask - What's the race format? Can't imagine Dave pulling up to the start line for an XC race on that beast. Enduro? So, how about it Dave (and how did you place) ?

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sourdough View Post
    The question I've been dying to ask - What's the race format? Can't imagine Dave pulling up to the start line for an XC race on that beast. Enduro? So, how about it Dave (and how did you place) ?
    He did mention in his response earlier in the thread or in another thread that it was an "enduro" (?) which I think means he's not too impressed with some of the races in SoCal that are getting passed off as enduro.
    Last edited by KRob; 03-17-2015 at 03:52 PM.
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  28. #28
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    26+ sounds like a great compromise to me in weight and tire diameter. Too bad everybody seems to be going toward 27 and 29+.
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  29. #29
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    Pinkbike has a story on 27.5+ at the Taipei show featuring a Sultan and 3.0 tires. in Taipei, Taiwan - photo by paulaston - Pinkbike

    Dave rippin' it on the 27.5+ sultan-p4pb12024604.jpg

    Dave rippin' it on the 27.5+ sultan-p4pb12024605.jpg

    Dave rippin' it on the 27.5+ sultan-p4pb12024603.jpg

  30. #30
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    With Fox & Rock Shox both announcing 27.5+ forks and a slew of tire manufacturers on board I'm betting this is going to be the next big movement in '15/'16. Interbike will be swamped with these bikes.

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    I have 2.4 Ardent's on my Sultan now (this setup also works great on the Czar (25mm ID Enve's)). They have helped a ton with flotation and traction here in NC in the wet (winter) season.

    Next winter I will be rolling on 27.5+ on my Sultan, sounds like a 3.0/2.8 on Enves is going to be the ticket if running 100mm Q15 front and 142mm rear.

  32. #32
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    It will be interesting what get's rolled out at Sea Otter for 27.5+. I would be really excited if I can run a standard 29er wheel and the 27.5+ wheel on my Sultan using the same fork.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zorg View Post
    26+ sounds like a great compromise to me in weight and tire diameter. Too bad everybody seems to be going toward 27 and 29+.
    Eggzachary, 26+ gives you the magic number of 27.5. I still don't want a 29er

  34. #34
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    Give it some more time Zorg, the tire makers are tripping all over themselves opening new molds for 275+, and they must buy a minimum run out of the new molds before they can think about yet ANOTHER size... But in the long run I too think that 26+ will make the most sense for most riders. super schralpers like Kidd and on up the speed chain need not apply of COURSE!

  35. #35
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    Meaning, the 26+ Burner makes more sense than the 27.5+ Sultan?
    Need your personal input DT as Im planning to build a wheelset for this experiment,
    Thanks


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  36. #36
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    good point. without riding either 26+ or 27.5+, i'd venture a guess that a rider would feel less of the negatives (slower, higher rotating mass) and geater benefits (traction, flotation) going from 27.5" tires to 26+ than going from 29" tires to 27.5+.

    in my experiemce, 29er ride is very sensitve to tire choice, pressure, rims and it took a lot of time at least for me to figure out the best combination to have adequate grip without feeling i was riding with boat anchors attached. while i think 27+ on a 29er frame is a cool option and maybe great when going down, i'm concerned they might be a bit much to drag along when going up (even with all the extra traction).

    Quote Originally Posted by Bullit_cn View Post
    Meaning, the 26+ Burner makes more sense than the 27.5+ Sultan?
    Need your personal input DT as Im planning to build a wheelset for this experiment,
    Thanks
    Last edited by starre; 04-10-2015 at 06:21 AM.

  37. #37
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    @DT, would you put a 27.5 fork on a 26+ burner?

  38. #38
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    I'd guess you'd have to in order to get the tyre clearance and keep the A-C length (and geometry) the same. I believe the whole point of going down a wheel size for the 26+/27.5+ is to keep the outside diameter similar to what the bike was designed for with the larger/taller tyres, so you'd need the 27.5 fork to fit the 26+ wheel/tyre.

  39. #39
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    Got a 2010 spot gathering dust. If Dave released a new 26+ triangle to bolt on, I'd be all over it
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  40. #40
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    I'm in a similar situation (though mine is ridden regularly, not gathering dust!), could be difficult finding a straight 1-1/8th steerer 27.5" fork though.

  41. #41
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    Wonder if tire would fit in a Lyrik with some spacer to limit travel
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  42. #42
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    26+ BURNER ? not fat but size+??? . cant wait to see the build!

  43. #43
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    So is the Sultan now a boost148 frame or still 142 ?
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  44. #44
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    Same old Sultan, 142x12.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by renoirbud View Post
    I have 2.4 Ardent's on my Sultan now (this setup also works great on the Czar (25mm ID Enve's)). They have helped a ton with flotation and traction here in NC in the wet (winter) season.

    Next winter I will be rolling on 27.5+ on my Sultan, sounds like a 3.0/2.8 on Enves is going to be the ticket if running 100mm Q15 front and 142mm rear.
    I run the same setup and have the same curiousity about 27.5+ on the Sultan. 3.0 front and 2.8 rear would be plenty of tread, just wondering what internal diameter rim width will work well with these tires. Any experience yet?

  46. #46
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    Dragging this thread back up to see if DT has any further thoughts on this?
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    Dragging this thread back up to see if DT has any further thoughts on this?
    I was just searching rims for this build. The problem is knowing exactly what size rim/tire combo the Sultan can take but it sounds like 30mm internal diameter rim might be doable, and allow tires at 2.8-3.0 hopefully. Bigger rims might limit tire size....?

  48. #48
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    40mm Nextie rims with Vee Tire 2.8 Fatty Trax works with a triple, barely.

    Lots of room in the frame, the issue is chain clearance. If you run a double or single ring you may be able to get a 3.0 in the back?

  49. #49
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    Forward thinking...what's the clearance going to be for a 26+ RFX?

  50. #50
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    That's good info. I plan to stay at 2.8-3.0, ride a XX1 so single ring. I was thinking a rim that is about 30-35 internal diameter which is right where the Nextie is, carbon eh? for Cheap too? I am worried about increasing the weight of the wheelset too much compared to my 29er wheelset. I believe it might make the bike a little sluggish when trying to move it around, etc. And, I want this bike to be a go anywhere bike, long rides, at altitude. So I was thinking carbon rims too. Tires seem to be adding 200 grams perhaps in the rear and 100 in the front compared to my 2.4 ardent and 2.2 Ikon.

    Thanks for any thoughts on these issues and, care to share ride impressions?

  51. #51
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    Have u guys actually ridden the sultan set up as 27+? I rode the spesh 6 fattie and it was awesome. Looking for other bikes with that same tire size. Can't imagine what a suspension guru could do with ability to design tire for small bump and suspension /shock for big bumps

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    I have not. I'd like to confirm that it works and is rideable in all respects before I drop cash on a wheelset.....sounds like bottom bracket drop might be the biggest issue since tire clearance seems to be fine with 2.8?

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    I think a 3.0 is a sweet spot.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by manorden View Post
    I have not. I'd like to confirm that it works and is rideable in all respects before I drop cash on a wheelset.....sounds like bottom bracket drop might be the biggest issue since tire clearance seems to be fine with 2.8?
    BB drop is about .5 inches, not a real deal breaker for me. I have been on the B+ setup since the ball dropped and love the setup. The nicest part about the B+ is that is is an additional option you can have for your bike. Having 2 wheelsets will get you 2 bikes for the price of 1.

    Each wheel size has its own personality and will act differently on the trail. If you are in for an all day xc ride, stick with the 29ers. If you are planning on hitting the tech sections and want extra confidence and grip, throw on the B+.

    So far I have had B+ on the following bikes and love the way that the bike is transformed.

    Canfield Yelli Screamy
    Kona Process 111
    Santa Cruz Heckler 650b

    Again, the key takeaway is that it is an option you have for your 29ers.
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  55. #55
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    Dusty - what size tires were you running on the yelli

  56. #56
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    TrailBlazer 2.8 on the Scraper i45 rim
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  57. #57
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    I think Dusty has it right, it's another option for your 29ers and that was WTBs intent as well, as an option for current 29ers, hence the smaller 2.8" size. I've made up my mind, I'll be getting a set of WTB Asym i35 650B rims and building wheels to run on my 4 29ers in different configurations, but main thing is it'll mix things up and for the HT/Rigid hoping it'll add some decent cush in the rear over the current biggest 29er offerings.
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    The talked about physics on the subject discusses 20% more contact patch and 1% more rolling resistance with 2.8 tires compared to 'usual' mtn bike tires I believe. So I agree that 2.8-3.0 is quite enough, especially if the goal is a summer trail bike. I'd like to hear from someone who has ridden the Sultan with a similar setup prior to the commitment, but its sounding like it will work. Lower bottom bracket will be an issue but you can usually get used to that kind of thing....also agree that having 2 wheelsets would be fun and basically get you another bike.

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    All I know is that the 6 fattie I test rode was the most fun I have had riding in a long time

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    I have been riding my Sultan for 3 months now on 27+ and I love it. I started with a set of Velocity Blunt 35's with XT hubs as a test platform. I like it so much I am now going to upgrade to a set of carbon rims in a 40mm OD with King Hubs. I have been running the WTB 2.8 with no clearance issues. I am not the biggest fan of that tire but it was all that was available in a 2.8 three months ago. I hear Schwalbe will be shipping their 27+, in a 2.8 and a 3.0, next week. I will be looking to sell the Blunt wheels if anyone is interested in trying 27+ on their Sultan for cheep (if you thing $300 is cheep) before investing in a good set.

  61. #61
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    I just received my Nox Farlow (29mm internal diameter)/DT swiss 350 wheelset with Vee trax fatty 2.8 front and rear. I put it on my 2012 Turner Sultan and rode the last 2 days in Golden CO (chimney gulch and North table mtn). Sultanguy had a great idea to 'test' this out as he did and I was nervous to make the plunge at first. I talked to Turner directly and 2 guys there are riding this basic setup (or wider rims) and they have been for 4 months. I was worried about the bottom bracket drop mainly, and I also wanted to be 100% sure it was going to all fit and ride well; they said it all worked very well so I went for it. It helped that I blew up my rear wheel and needed another one anyway, so this seemed to be the logical next step....and it was.

    The first 2 ride impressions were awesome. It all fits with no problem (1x11 required). I rode some rocky stuff and the bottom bracket drop has not been a significant issue. I did have a few pedal strikes but its something that I have already gotten used to with the Sultan. Plus, I cleared some uphill rock gardens that I normally would not have cleared. The contact patch was great for these uphills.

    So, I am confident that the 27.5+ Sultan setup, on a Fox 34 fork and 142 rear spacing is the real deal. I'll need many more rides on my routine trails over the next year to get final impressions but so far it seems really fun and I look forward to riding this over the next year.

    As for weight of this setup, it gained about 100-200 grams per wheel/tire combo compared to my 29er setup that I had which was an aluminum rim. Not bad. Here is the tire weight info:

    Vee Rubber Trax fatty 2.8: Claimed tire weights online were 830, claimed weight on the tire's box when I got it was 870. Actual weight of mine: 840g and 900g. That was the lightest 2.8 tire I could find. Looks like Schwalbe and Maxxis will have some good options coming soon.

  62. #62
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    Bumping this older thread to see if anyone has pics of chainstay and seat stay clearance when using a 2.8 or 3" tire on their Sultan.

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    I have a pic but can't figure out how to load to this site. nordenma@gmail.com if you want it directly via email.

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by manorden View Post
    I have a pic but can't figure out how to load to this site. nordenma@gmail.com if you want it directly via email.
    email sent

  65. #65
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    B+ Sultan.

    Here are pics of my XL Sultan that I just converted. No dirt rides yet since the trails just became rideable and I have been working OT.

    2.8 Nobby Nic on WTB Scraper i45 rims. No rubbing on the road and some light urban riding.
    2011 Quiring 29er Steel Hardtail
    2009 Gt Peace 9'R SS
    2009 Surly Cross Check
    1997 GT Zaskar
    1985 Raleigh Elkhorn SS

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaskar24 View Post
    B+ Sultan.

    Here are pics of my XL Sultan that I just converted. No dirt rides yet since the trails just became rideable and I have been working OT.

    2.8 Nobby Nic on WTB Scraper i45 rims. No rubbing on the road and some light urban riding.
    Thanks Zaskar, looks like reasonable room at the seat stays. Is it about the same clearance at the chain stays?

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by noosa2 View Post
    Thanks Zaskar, looks like reasonable room at the seat stays. Is it about the same clearance at the chain stays?
    When I ran a 3.0 maxxis Chronicle in the rear - my chain would rub slightly in the big cog. I would recommend sticking to a 2.8 max in the rear. I was running 32/38 width rims with a 1x10 setup.

    Just sold my Sultan so my plus tires are going to be used on the RFX now running 2.4s. I do have 2 lightly used 3.0 maxxis chronicles if anyone wants to try them.

    Wish I could have kept both bikes - the Sultan Plus was a blast.

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by noosa2 View Post
    Thanks Zaskar, looks like reasonable room at the seat stays. Is it about the same clearance at the chain stays?
    You are welcome noosa2. The chain stays are about 3 mm wider overall so just a little more clearance. My chain does rub when I am in granny gear. I can run the 38 chain ring to 36 cassette cog without rubbing though. Never really use granny gear around here so not a big concern for me.
    2011 Quiring 29er Steel Hardtail
    2009 Gt Peace 9'R SS
    2009 Surly Cross Check
    1997 GT Zaskar
    1985 Raleigh Elkhorn SS

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    I've got a Sultan B+ as well and I've ordered some offset bushings to achieve a slacker head angle.. does anyone have experience with this setup? What are your thoughts?

    Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

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