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  1. #1
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    Czar vs Burner vs Spot!

    Quick Observations: 2012 Five Spot vs 2013 Burner vs 2013 Czar

    I've been riding for over 25 years, and most of those years on Turners. My bike last year was a buffed out 2012 5.5 Spot. I took delivery of a Burner and a Czar several weeks ago, and here are a few quick observations:

    Czar: Full XTR 3 x 10 drive, Enve XC Wheels, Maxxis Ardent 29 x 2.25, Float 29 100cm travel, Weight as built: 25lbs 12oz.
    Czar vs Burner vs Spot!-czar.jpeg

    The Czar is a thoroughbred. It is most definitely a Turner. Very fast and responsive on the straights. Pedals like a dream. Super responsive in the turns, almost feels high strung. To tell you the truth I don't find it any less responsive on switchbacks, etc than smaller wheeled bikes. (I do sort of miss the lowest granny on climbs - see below.) I found the Czar is harder to perfectly tune the suspension for my weight and riding style than other Turners, and I have been making very slight adjustments to suspension and tire pressure. I feel like I almost have it dialed. The bike is respectable through rocky sections at speed, but best to pay close attention.


    This bike was over a pound lighter as built by Turner (entirely due to the tires). The original tires were Conti Race Kings - waaay too slippery on the typical loose over hard pack trails up here in Aye-dee-hoe. I switched to some Ardent 2.25s. All in all this is a beautiful bike and feels fast as hell. This bike is definitely my pick for any 20 mile+ XC ride.

    Burner: Full XTR 3 x 10 drive, Enve XC Wheels, Schwalbe Hans Damf 27.5 x 2.35, Rock Shocks reverb drop seat post, Float 34 140cm travel, Weight as built: 28lbs 12oz.
    Czar vs Burner vs Spot!-burner.jpeg

    Wow! This is the bike. Unbelievable. I switched out the tires, quickly set the sag and tire pressure for a plush ride, and this bike rocks right out of the gate. Super solid in all conditions. This bike DEVOURS rocky sections of trail that used to be a bit uncomfortable. Not as spry to pedal as the Czar, and ever so slightly heavier up hills, but wow what a beautiful performer. . . I am blown away at how much more capable this bike is than my 5 Spot.


    Although the Burner could be built quite a bit lighter than my bike, I wouldn't change a thing.

    2012 5.5 Spot: Full XTR, 3 x 10, Weight as built: 26lbs, 12oz.

    Oh yeah, my favorite bike from last year, the 2012 5.5 Spot? Well soon to be for sale. . .

    P.S. Probably my only complaint regarding the new bikes is the loss of the lower end "granny gear" due to the increased circumference of the larger wheels. I was curious how much I am losing. Since I have the same exact Shimano XTR on all three bikes, I measured how far the bike would move with one complete revolution of the crank. The numbers are:

    5 Spot 26" wheel 54"
    Burner 27.5 wheels 57"
    Czar 29" wheels 60"

    So for each revolution of the crank, I have to push the 29" wheels 6 inches further than the 26" wheel. That is a huge difference on a big climb.

  2. #2
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    What size Czar? Also, what do you weigh, in regards to the shock tuning of the Czar?

  3. #3
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    p.s. Beautiful bikes. You're right about the Ardents on the Czar, they are pigs.

  4. #4
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    Wow! Do you have Enve rims on the Spot? What are your typical rides like?

    Did you consider a Sultan?

    Bob

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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin+M View Post
    What size Czar? Also, what do you weigh, in regards to the shock tuning of the Czar?
    I'm probably 155 w/ camelbak riding a medium frame. On the Czar120 lbs in rear shock, 80 lbs in front, running Ardents at 22 front and 26 rear. Would love to find a light, high volume tire that rolls well, grips well, and doesn't have paper thin side walls. . .

    With the Czar I find myself thinking in terms of compromise. Everything should be light. With the Burner, I don't think twice about weight, and compromise later when climbing!

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobo_krkk_NIN View Post
    Wow! Do you have Enve rims on the Spot? What are your typical rides like?

    Did you consider a Sultan?

    Bob
    These bikes are my first with Enve wheels, so not sure how they change the ride or how to compare with how the good ol' Spot rode without Enve. All I know is that I really like the current combination!

    Typical rides around the Sun Valley / Ketchum area are on buffed single track. Very typically we have to climb A LOT to earn our descent. Yesterday did this ride on the Burner:

    BCRD Summer TraiLink - Pioneer Cabin/Johnstone/Bear/Parker

    Never tried or considered the Sultan - not really sure why.

  7. #7
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    Thanks! Good stuff. I would have guessed that the Czar would be the perfect bike for those types of rides based on my riding tastes. I hate it when people actually have real world experience. Gives use iPad riders nothing to type about...

    Have fun! I am Enve-us...

  8. #8
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    Now you need to add a Flux to the mix...

  9. #9
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    Czar vs Burner vs Spot!

    Quote Originally Posted by edroid View Post
    Would love to find a light, high volume tire that rolls well, grips well, and doesn't have paper thin side walls. . .
    Czar vs Burner vs Spot!-imageuploadedbytapatalk1372132666.439036.jpg

    710g, 60mm casing width on Flow rims, tubeless ready, EXO sidewall.

    Great stable, by the way!

  10. #10
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    I second the recommendation of the new Ikon in 2.35. Has delivered well in mud, hardpack, rocks and roots.

  11. #11
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    Wow, nice bikes. You win the prize for the best toys in town.

    I currently ride a flux - great bike but I ride where there are plenty of rock gardens. Thanks for the write-up on the Burner - it sounds like the future bike for me

  12. #12
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    You mentioned taking the approach that if it's for the Czar it has to be light, for the Burner, no worries. I get sucked into that too, but last week, I threw my Sultan wheel set onto the Czar, and holy crap! The Czar has much more range than I thought it did after putting countless hours on it with pinner xc race weight weenie tires. The Ardent 2.4 and Bonty XR4 might have been overkill, but when race season is over, the Czar is getting a set of 2.3 Ground Controls or XR3s for the long fall rides done without computers or heart rate monitors.
    Whining is not a strategy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by edroid View Post
    I'm probably 155 w/ camelbak riding a medium frame. On the Czar120 lbs in rear shock, 80 lbs in front, running Ardents at 22 front and 26 rear. Would love to find a light, high volume tire that rolls well, grips well, and doesn't have paper thin side walls. . .

    With the Czar I find myself thinking in terms of compromise. Everything should be light. With the Burner, I don't think twice about weight, and compromise later when climbing!
    With 120psi on the shock, where does that put you with sag? I just moved from coils to air and we almost weigh the same. My Monarch RT3 feels a bit harsh at 30% sag. (either that or I'm just way to used to coils)

  14. #14
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    edroid. I'm using the stock RK in BC trails in the rear but in the rockier trails (I'm thinking of say going down N Hyndman or Long Gulch) that ProTection sidewall probably will suffer from cuts. Second the recommendations of the Ikons. Wonderful tire.

    The Ardent front is a super good choice too for cornering. For steeps maybe a bit undergunned even.

    kosmo. Rail that Czar. It begs to be ridden hard. Amazing how hard you can push it.
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  15. #15
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    Thanks for all the input!

    I am going to order some Ikons and give them a try.

  16. #16
    Daniel the Dog
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    The Ikons are sweet tires. I'm running some non tubeless one's tubeless and they have lasted nearly a year. Best race tire out there. Much be than Ra Ra's in my book.

    The new Turner 27.5 Flux looks sweet. Nice review.

  17. #17
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    Definitely would add to the +1 on the Ikon 2.35" as the tyre you're looking for - EXO casing is super stout, yet doesn't weigh a ton. Sweet bikes BTW, really sweet.
    Quote Originally Posted by edroid View Post
    ........Would love to find a light, high volume tire that rolls well, grips well, and doesn't have paper thin side walls. . .
    Quote Originally Posted by nybike1971 View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

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    710g, 60mm casing width on Flow rims, tubeless ready, EXO sidewall.

    Great stable, by the way!
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  18. #18
    T , V , & K Rider
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    Nice write up !
    " A way to a deep freedom " - Tarja

  19. #19
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    I would recommend replacing the Hans Dampf on the rear of the Burner and replacing for something faster. Save it for the front. Mine was destroyed in less than 100 miles, serious wear down the middle, torn knobs everywhere etc. LOVE it on the front and won't run anything else. I also picked up some serious speed on the climbs once I replaced the rear as well.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salespunk View Post
    I would recommend replacing the Hans Dampf on the rear of the Burner and replacing for something faster. Save it for the front. Mine was destroyed in less than 100 miles, serious wear down the middle, torn knobs everywhere etc. LOVE it on the front and won't run anything else. I also picked up some serious speed on the climbs once I replaced the rear as well.
    I have been considering something different on the rear. I put the Burner in a bike stand to re-adjust how the bike fits and the stand had a roller that fried my sidewalls on the rear!

    What would you recommend?

    Tires are one of those things where there are so many choices that you could go broke trying them all.

    Thanks

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by TIGMAN View Post
    Nice write up !
    Thanks!

  22. #22
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    Ardent 2.25, Ground Control 2.3, Bonty XR-3 in 2.3. If it's drying up for the season in the Big Wood Valley, you can get a great combination of cush, speed, and cheapness with old-school Geax Suguaros in 2.2.
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  23. #23
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    I just built up a Czar on the heavy side, just under 27lbs. Reba 120, 2.4 Hans Dampt on Stans Arch front, 2.4 Rocket Ron on Stans Flow back...riding many Laguna steeps feeling very comfortable going downhill. Narrow fast tires are not fun in summer loose Laguna Beach. What has impressed me is how stiff the bike is and even overforked it climbs very well.

  24. #24
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    I am looking at the Czar and I would like to use a 120 fork up front. Did you notice any wandering of the front end on steep climbs? Any other thoughts on how the bike performs with a 120 would be great.

  25. #25
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    No I did not find any wandering with the 120. My 2008 RFX with a 2006 Zoke 66sl wanders.

  26. #26
    jrm
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    Can i ask how you got the travel of your 34 down to 140mm on your Burner?. And could you please measure the amount of exposed stanchion? My 34s travel is reduced to 150 but still retains the A/C and exposed stanchion of the travel being set @ 160. TIA

  27. #27
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    By either moving the push pin "stop" on the air piston, or using snap on travel spacers. F34s are very easy to go into and change travel, oil etc. If you've got a FIT version don't go in there unless you're ready for some tedious fun FYI, at the "140mm" travel setting on my F34 29er I show almost 150mm of exposed stanchion.

    Quote Originally Posted by jrm View Post
    Can i ask how you got the travel of your 34 down to 140mm on your Burner?. And could you please measure the amount of exposed stanchion? My 34s travel is reduced to 150 but still retains the A/C and exposed stanchion of the travel being set @ 160. TIA
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  28. #28
    jrm
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    [QUOTE=FYI, at the "140mm" travel setting on my F34 29er I show almost 150mm of exposed stanchion.[/QUOTE]

    Thats exactly it, even though youve changed the travel the AC remains the same b/c with psi @ 100 or more the negative spring smashes down the shuttle bumper allowing the fork to extend to its original AC length. Im trying to find a way to change the travel so that amount of travel AND exposed stanchion are the same. The burners geometry is calculated using a fork with a 540 AC length and thats what im trying to achieve by changing the fork travel to 150mm.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrm View Post
    Thats exactly it, even though youve changed the travel the AC remains the same b/c with psi @ 100 or more the negative spring smashes down the shuttle bumper allowing the fork to extend to its original AC length. Im trying to find a way to change the travel so that amount of travel AND exposed stanchion are the same. The burners geometry is calculated using a fork with a 540 AC length and thats what im trying to achieve by changing the fork travel to 150mm.
    Jrm, are you noticing any ill performance in the fork along with the AC measuring long? Topping out or having to run incredibly low pressure to get sag, not getting full travel?

  30. #30
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    Yeah, but when I extended it up the one notch on the air piston 10mm above to "150mm" more stanchion was exposed, say around 160mm and it definitely changed the geo a bit and raised the BB - could feel it in the handling and actually measured the BB which went from 13.7" to 14.2". I think for some reason they are not meant to use the last 5-8mm of stanchion or Fox is "generous" with the travel

    Quote Originally Posted by jrm View Post
    Thats exactly it, even though youve changed the travel the AC remains the same b/c with psi @ 100 or more the negative spring smashes down the shuttle bumper allowing the fork to extend to its original AC length. Im trying to find a way to change the travel so that amount of travel AND exposed stanchion are the same. The burners geometry is calculated using a fork with a 540 AC length and thats what im trying to achieve by changing the fork travel to 150mm.
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  31. #31
    jrm
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    Its not topping out and i havent hit anything that would test whether im getting full travel. With 100 psi im getting a bit of brake induced dive. Fox suggested adding 20cc of fox fluid to the air spring to mitigate that.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrm View Post
    Its not topping out and i havent hit anything that would test whether im getting full travel. With 100 psi im getting a bit of brake induced dive. Fox suggested adding 20cc of fox fluid to the air spring to mitigate that.
    I have a 2013 36 that I lowered to 150mm for my spot that measured long and performed like I describe. Turns out there was pressure built up in the bottom of the right leg under the FiT cartridge somehow.

  33. #33
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    Simple test, let out all the air out of the fork and just compress it to see how much of the stanchion goes into the fork before it bottoms, dead easy way to check You weigh how much?! I'm anywhere from 175-195lbs geared and I run about 70 PSI in my F34-29er. Brake dive, yes, but have you adjusted the LSC knob yet? It really does make a difference? Never heard of adding oil to the air spring side, I might try it as I hate brake dive, but like nice and plush setups and it's an easy enough to perform trick that'll only take 5mins to do..

    EDIT to add - just went and popped the air cap off the F34 and added the oil (just used 0-20 syntetic as it's cheaper and readily available for testing and I'm lighter, so expect a lighter oil would suit me better) and while at it, compressed it as far as it would go, which left about 5mm above the o-ring and when measuring the stanchion below the o-ring showed the travel I got to be 141.5mm, so there's exposed stanchion you won't be using on them and I guess that's part of the design. Will see how the 20CCs of oil goes and if it helps lessen brake dive. Also check air pressure with my gauge and it read 75 PSI, which I guess is about right considering I've been riding on the heavier side most of the time recently taking along my DSLR etc in my new pack which weighs about 30-35lbs.

    Quote Originally Posted by jrm View Post
    Its not topping out and i haven't hit anything that would test whether im getting full travel. With 100 psi im getting a bit of brake induced dive. Fox suggested adding 20cc of fox fluid to the air spring to mitigate that.
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  34. #34
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    Update: Czar vs Burner vs Spot

    Czar vs Burner

    Whooda thunk?

    The Burner was supposed to be my number one go to ride, and it is becoming a garage queen!

    The Czar is just plain an astoundingly great ride, and when it comes time to pick which bike to load (a tough choice between these two), the Czar seems to win out.

    I find the Czar devours long flat or rolling trails, climbs beautifully, yet I now feel comfortable in rockier or extremely rough sections. I realize that the Czar is really the ideal bike for the type of riding I do around here - 25 miles or so with 3,000 ft climbs. Our trails are just plain not as rough as they used to be.

    I have finally dialed in the forks and tire pressure of the Czar. I started out thinking stiff XC racer, and am now running both tires and shocks much softer.

    Thanks to all for the recommendations regarding the Ikons. I switched from the 2.25 Ardents to the 2.2 Ikons. I dropped about a half a pound per wheel, and have been loving the Ikons. I am running them at 21 front, 24 rear. The Czar feels like it wants to fly. I would like better grip in loose over hard, but the 29" wheels seem to have enough additional surface contact that the smaller knobs on the Ikons are surprisingly stable. I'm thinking of switching to a 2.35 Ikon on the front.

    I don't mean to detract from the Burner in the least. It is far and away the better bike when gravity pulls you back down after the climb. It is just so beautifully balanced and capable. If I have a complaint, it is with the Hans Dampfs. I love how they grip the loose over hard, but at 800 grams, they just plain seem like overkill and a bit dull on the ascents.

    With the Czar, I am still always wondering whether the Ikon's will wash out on dry loose over hard pack. With the Burner, I can just plain dig in and enjoy the descent.

    I guess to sum it up, the Czar is incredible on the way up, with a slight compromise descending, and the Burner is the exact opposite. Maybe I am getting old, but the Czar is winning these days. . .

  35. #35
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    I fight this reality everyday. My mind wants me to need a 6 inch travel bike, but in reality I could ride every trail in my area on a 4 inch bike easily. i'm gonna have to check out a Czar one day.

  36. #36
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    I've been running my Czar for two weeks now with a couple of minor mods.

    First, I slapped on a 120 fork. I like it. I've got a bit of a bum hand, and the extra cush adds to my enjoyment, and minimizes fatigue. Of course, there is slightly more effort to maintain your line on very steep climbs (think 24/32 and low cadence) but otherwise it all seems to be upside and no downside. I even think I like the slightly more upright riding position (next step baggies, a huge pack, goggles, and a huge pack for 2 hour rides on local intermediate trails?!?!?!?).

    Second, I removed the volume reducer from the top of the shock. I love it. Previously, I was having a bit of a "fight" between setting sag for efficient pedaling feel and getting full travel. Not a huge thing, but it was there. Now I set sag around 11 mm and get full travel on 2 out of every 3 rides. With this mod, I see no downside in the least. It makes the bike an even better endurance racer (snappier pedaling feel) and a better trail bike (feels "deeper" through the rougher sections at the end of a long ride).

    What a blast of a bike!
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  37. #37
    North Van/Whistler
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    Broken record here --- that the Czar is excellent uphill is not surprising. That it is so capable and has so much range downhill was what surprised.
    Locals' Guide to North Shore Rides http://mtbtrails.ca/

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by edroid View Post
    With the Czar, I am still always wondering whether the Ikon's will wash out on dry loose over hard pack. With the Burner, I can just plain dig in and enjoy the descent.
    Put a Specialized Butcher Control on the front. You won't regret it.

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    If you want to make the Burner really burn throw the new Pike on the front of it...It makes the Fox shocks feel like garbage. I liked it so much I had to buy another Pike for my Ripley.

  40. #40
    DLd
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeeL View Post
    Broken record here --- that the Czar is excellent uphill is not surprising. That it is so capable and has so much range downhill was what surprised.
    Are you still using the 100mm fork Lee? Have you had any time on a Ripley to compare the two? I'm coming at this from an angle of got back into racing XC this year, getting top 10 and probably top 5 if not for some flats, Cat 1 in AZ. Looking to podium this year. It looks like the Ripley paired with a 120mm fork will end up about the same weight as a Czar paired with a 100mm fork +-0.2lbs. Also, the geometries are really similar, both 24.6" TT for an XL, and both 12.8" BB, 70deg HA vs. a 69.8, that's cutting hairs. So... They're probably both freakin' awesome, and the ideal would be to demo both of them and see which has perhaps the slight advantage for my riding style, but I don't have a demo for either available. Any insights?

    Edit: I do some 50's and 100's, like the Whiskey 50, and the Bailey Hundo as well and will probably finally hit the 24 HITOP solo too.
    Fall in Fruita/GJ. F' yeah! Lunch Loops are riding sweet and so is everything else.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeeL View Post
    Broken record here --- that the Czar is excellent uphill is not surprising. That it is so capable and has so much range downhill was what surprised.
    How's the Czar handle steep low speed downhill moves and features? Does it feel a little steep like you have to get way off the back? Also which fork are you running?

  42. #42
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    A local shop has the Ripley. Would love to try one as it would close the loop on the eye-catching carbon 29ers currently out there. Also need to try out the Devinci Atlas.

    But presently I don't have experience on one
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    Ikon 29x2.35 EXO 3C EXC, but not tubeless ready

    I changed out the Ikon 2.2 for a 2.35 on the front of the Czar. Much better tire on the Enve XC rims. The 2.2s were somewhat of a PIA to set up, but the 2.35 inflated right up and held air without Stan's (then added Stan's).

    I rode the 2.35 at a much lower pressure than I could get away with on the 2.2. At the lower pressure it held much better in the corners, with no burping.

    With the 2.2 I can press my thumb hard into the sidewall and get a bit of a burp, even though it rides fine. With the 2.35 I can't do a thumb burp.

    Heh. . .I know the braking of the Ikon in front is excellent - For some reason my iPod freaked out and all of a sudden was FULL BLAST in my ears. Like really, really LOUD. Scared the piss out of me and I slammed on the brakes and locked up the front and went right over. Luckily landed on my feet. Haven't done that in a while. . .

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by edroid View Post
    Ikon 29x2.35 EXO 3C EXC, but not tubeless ready

    I changed out the Ikon 2.2 for a 2.35 on the front of the Czar. Much better tire on the Enve XC rims. The 2.2s were somewhat of a PIA to set up, but the 2.35 inflated right up and held air without Stan's (then added Stan's).

    I rode the 2.35 at a much lower pressure than I could get away with on the 2.2. At the lower pressure it held much better in the corners, with no burping.

    With the 2.2 I can press my thumb hard into the sidewall and get a bit of a burp, even though it rides fine. With the 2.35 I can't do a thumb burp.

    .
    I used to have a set of Enve XC rims and they worked great with 2.0 tires, but when I tried putting a 2.3 on them, the tire shape was precarious and I ended up burping air and Stan's BIGTIME. Not to mention the untimely crashes in techy areas. IMHO the internal rim width of 18mm of the Enve XC is just not well suited to support larger tire widths. I switched to the Enve AM (24mm internal) and Light Bicycle (23mm internal) and things are good.

  45. #45
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    So what happen to the spot? Up for sale?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rideon View Post
    I used to have a set of Enve XC rims and they worked great with 2.0 tires, but when I tried putting a 2.3 on them, the tire shape was precarious and I ended up burping air and Stan's BIGTIME. Not to mention the untimely crashes in techy areas. IMHO the internal rim width of 18mm of the Enve XC is just not well suited to support larger tire widths. I switched to the Enve AM (24mm internal) and Light Bicycle (23mm internal) and things are good.
    The Enve manual says the XC will take up to 2.2. I am pushing it a bit.

    On that note, it is interesting / amusing to watch Stan's video demonstration of certain tire / rim combos. Certain tires and rims just don't get along.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by DHRracer View Post
    So what happen to the spot? Up for sale?
    The Five Spot is currently collecting dust. . . . Got a couple of locals interested.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rideon View Post
    I used to have a set of Enve XC rims and they worked great with 2.0 tires, but when I tried putting a 2.3 on them, the tire shape was precarious and I ended up burping air and Stan's BIGTIME. Not to mention the untimely crashes in techy areas. IMHO the internal rim width of 18mm of the Enve XC is just not well suited to support larger tire widths. I switched to the Enve AM (24mm internal) and Light Bicycle (23mm internal) and things are good.
    Well you are right. I switched the Ikon 2.35 to an AM rim, and it made a big difference. I didn't realize how scrunched up the XC made the 2.35. No burping problem, but just a strange shape to the tire.

    Still running the 2.2 rear on an XC rim, but will try that on the AM next, or maybe reduce tire size on the XC rim.

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    Taking off my Czar Fanboy hat for a short while

    The summer has been bone dry up here in Idaho. Massive forest fires, tons of dust, and of course really, really loose over hard pack conditions.

    Since the trails are getting a bit treacherous, I decided to ride the Burner exclusively for several weeks.

    I had the Burner set up with Hans Dampf 2.35 tires front and rear. The problem is that I felt like a battleship going down the trail. The Hans Dampfs are massive, heavy tires that dig in and hold on anything.

    The bike felt sluggish, like I was throwing a massive bow wave every ride, so I switched out the tires to 2.25 Racing Ralphs. I lost over one pound per wheel!!!!!

    The new lighter tires brought the Burner to life. Feels really fast and agile, though the RRs might be a bit too XC for the Burner.

    Compared to the Czar, the Burner feels like I have to commit to a turn a bit more aggressively right at first, but once you are down into the turn the Burner really shines.

    I don't drift turns much, but when the Burner does break loose it is more predictable than the Czar and inspires confidence.

    All in all, my bottom line is this: If I am riding new wave IMBA "sustainable" trails, the Czar is the ticket. If the trail is anything old school like horse trails, moto trails, rough or rocky roads, ski resort riding, etc, I'm lining up the Burner.

  50. #50
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    I've been riding my Burner almost exclusively on an IMBA/flow/berm/jump lately and it's feeling perfect for the task, kind of like Stevie Smith Aline race . I found that I could not corner as aggresively as I'd like with the HD, didn't seem to bother Stevie though, I'm much more confident on the HR2. Now that the trail is getting firm I'm starting to think about a faster roller that still corners well. I don't think anyone is making one yet.

    Thanks for the great info on your bikes, I just haven't been riding any other bike except for my dhr in the bike park, I really need to do a proper 26 27.5 shootout.

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