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Czar Build Thread

116K views 445 replies 107 participants last post by  ajax247 
#1 ·
There are a number of them out there now, post them up!

Bought the frame and fork through North of the Border after riding a demo back in April. First ride yesterday was awesome. Love how stable the pedaling platform is and the geometry for descending.

Frame: Large (I am 5' 10")
Fork: 2013 Fox Float, Kashima, 100mm, 51mm offset (bought through Turner)
Headset: Cane Creek 110
Stem: Thomson 90mm, 0 rise
Seatpost: Thomson
Seat: WTB Devo Ti
Bars: Enve
Shifters: XTR
Brakes: Magura MT6, 180 Front Rotor, 160 Rear
Grips: ODI Ruffian with Turner clamps
Front D: XTR
Rear D: XTR Clutch
Chain: XTR
Cassette: XT
BB: Praxis - PF30 for Shimano (really happy with this choice)
Cranks: XTR Triple
Pedals: Time ATAC
Wheels: Stans Arch with Stans hubs
Tires: Conti Mountain King, Protection with Black Chili
Cage: Lezyne
 

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#31 ·
The Czar is lightweight, but is not pushing the boundaries in terms of low frame weight. For most of us, a pound means nothing on a frame. I have not ridden a Czar yet, but I am pretty sure that pound comes in handy and is felt in the solid ride that Turners are known for.

A frame that is really pushing is these days is the trek SF100 (sub 2kg), and from the reports I am hearing it could be stiffer. Older versions usually crack.

I am coming from a Large Epic FSR 29 S-works (2.3ish kg), and that is one solid ride. Direct, stiff, tough. I don't think I would ride that bike any faster if it was 300 grams less.
 
#32 ·
Just ordered a CZAR. Very stoked about this! Probably just personal preference but I'm curious if people are building them with riser bars and stems that have some rise? I am more curious on how it might impact handling. Notice that the stock builds come with flat bars. thx for the thoughts!
 
#34 ·
nice to hear. Seems like either way is a good choice and just comes down to preference. I am thinking I don't want to be too upright so may go flat. Maybe even invert the stem for a negative drop???

otherwise stoked for my bike. Ordering through Chad and the good folks at Red Barn Bikes. Heard the frame may not be at the shop until later in October.
 
#37 ·
I dismantled my dw lower link and the Igus bushes appear to be pressed into an aluminium tube bonded into the carbon, which is the right way of doing it. Looks durable, the link is milled from one piece, steel thread inserts for strength. Haven't had any of the others apart yet so can't confirm but would expect the same for the main rocker.
 
#36 ·
My Czar is ordered...now it is time to sit and wait

XX1
Thomson Elite Stem and Seatpost
Thomson Carbon Flat Bar
Hope Race Evo X2 brakes with floating rotors
Nox Composites Wheels with Industry 9 hubs (black)
Selle Italia SLR Kit Carbonio Flow
Schwalbe Rocket Ron SnakeSkin 2.25 front and rear
Chris King Headset
Pics soon, I hope!
 
#40 ·
Building my friend's up tomorrow.

Black frame with 100mm SID RCT3, Praxis Conversion, Cane Creek hs
Performance brand Forte Oversize stem, 100mm, 108 grams for $24!
4ti pedals
Whisky No. 7 740mm carbon, WCS Ergo foam grips
XTR crank and chain, 34T WolfTooth with XX1 trigger setup
Specialized 143 Henge ti
2013 Roval SL wheelset
Masterpiece post
 
#41 ·
Hey guys I a favour.
Looking at my current ride, the large Czar seems to be a closer fit than the XL. I'm 6'1. Current bike (C'dale Scalpel) has a 24.3tt and I'm using a straight post with a 110stem, bar is level with saddle-which I don't like for xc racing. With the large Czar I could go with a set back post and still be in the cockpit. Can anyone post a pic of their large Czar with the saddle set at 31.5" and measure the difference between the saddle and bar height, as well as stack and reach. I've no chance to do a test ride. Thanks.
 
#42 ·
I have no reach and stack measurements to offer, but I'm 6'2" with short legs, long torso, and can't imagine moving down to a large frame.

With a slammed stem, ~31" seat height, and a 6 degree negative rise stem, my bars are about 1.5" below the seat height.

Every Turner I've owned over the years (XCE, 5 Spot, Sultan V.1, Sultan V.2, and Czar) has ridden and handled better with a straight seatpost than setback. IMO, the Czar especially, since the short stays tuck the rear wheel under you more, so you're already a bit "back" on the bike.

Maybe the Turner guys will replace the "tbd" for reach and stack on the website soon. A reminder email probably wouldn't hurt!
 
#45 · (Edited)
Frosty Czar build

First a stick in the sand. Weight fully built.

Electronic device Text Red Technology Font


Frame. Large Czar 2013 orange

Fork. Fox Factory Series Fit CTD 100mm Kashima, 51mm

Headset. Cane Creek 40

Stem. Thomson x4 100mm -10 deg

Seatpost. Thomson Masterpiece

Seat. WTB silverado

Bars. Ritchey WCS Carbon flat sweep

Shifter. SRAM Gripshift 10 speed

Brakes. Formula R1 racing 160 formula rotors

Grips. SRAM Gripshift and eSi chunky

Rear d. SRAM X0 10 spd, mid cage

Chain. Dura Ace 10 speed

Cassette. Shimano 11-36 XTR

BB. Chris King PF30

Crankset. SRAM X01 32, 175mm

Pedals. Time ATAC carbon Ti

Wheels. Stans Crest

Tires. Specialized Fast Trax 2.0 s-work rear, 2.2 control Front, both tubeless with 1.5 cups so stans in each

Cage. King Ti

Other. Hope seat collar. Carbon headset spacer. Self amalgamating stay tape, E.13 xcx direct mount chain guard.

I will post pictures soon. This bike will easily be sub 23 lbs if I trim the brake cables, go s-works fast track front, less stans, and ditch the chain guard (will when I get a XO clutch rear d).

First big ride later today. First round the block impressions are that it is a tight build, routing etc is very nice. Feels smaller than my large Sultan. Will likely lower stem height. The suspension is will balanced. The rear feels very stiff. As does bb.

Only thing that bugged me in the build was the cranks. The preload dial seems hard to set. It did not seem to clearly move in or out. Almost like it was threaded. I wound it out. The tried to spin it in and it seem to grab. Anyway I set it where I best thought I could but it isn't clear I have a perfect set crank. Hmmm....

Love the Cane creek forty hs and the Chirs King BB is superior. The Fox forks seem to be lower quality than past years and models. Lots of sticktion as well. Are they made in Asia now?
 

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#46 ·
The Fox forks seem to be lower quality than past years and models. Lots of sticktion as well. Are they made in Asia now?
That bike, at that weight, will leave you no excuses but yourself. For me, a sometimes scary thought!

I've had both a new Fox 100 and 120 on my Czar. The 100 was beautiful out of the box. Butter. The 120 was sticky. Turned out that the foam donuts beneath the caps were bone dry. Lubed them up with fork oil, and butter was had again.

I've been a Fox fan for a long time, but have now gone from getting about 6 months from a crown assembly before the legs start creaking in the crown to less than 3 months. Fox has always taken care of this, but it is getting tiresome.

But I do ride a lot, and I weigh 195, so I kind of understand this with the 32 mm forks, but I just sent back my first 34 with the same problem.............
 
#47 ·
Kosmo yeah it is light for a SF 29er. It is lighter than my Yeti Big Top hard tail. Think I'll be selling that with this in the shed.

I have dripped some of the fox blue oil on the stanchions and cycled. It is working and freeing up. Still think the quality is average for a top end fork. Decals even are poor quality.
 
#50 ·
My Czar arrived today!




XX1
Thomson bar, stem, seatpost
Hope Race Evo X2 brakes with floating rotors
Nox Composites wheels with I9 hubs
Rocket Ron Snakeskin front and rear
Fox 100 CTD remote 51mm fork
ESI chunky grips
Selle Italia SLR Kit Carbonio Flow saddle

23 lbs. 11oz

Can't wait to go for a ride!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free
 
#53 ·
Having an issue with the rear tire. Air is escaping at the valve base. Going to pull the tire off and inspect the tape . I have tried two different valves, already. ]
I find if this is the issue the valve hole in the tubeless tape is the problem. You likely have to re-tape and make a new cleaner hole.

Your bike looks great. I'm engrossed in mine right now. Have fun.
 
#55 ·
Yep, my tape around the valve hole is always the culprit. I retape and make two small diagonal slits to form a tiny X which allows the valve stem to fit through super snug. I may even put some silicon around the valve stem, but the last 4 sets haven't needed it. Then I firmly tighten the valve stem nut; in the past I've really wrenched on it and that created a leak in the tape.
 
#58 ·
First ride on the Czar today. Still getting the position dialed in.... But, wow! Awesome bike. I was riding a Scalpel 29er that was over a pound lighter, but the Czar seems to accelerate quicker. The Czar scoots . First time riding XX1, as well. So far I am really happy. May cut the bars down a bit (currently 730mm ). Pleased with the whole build.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free
 
#59 ·
Hey mnyquist, I'm currently on a scalpel as well and have been drooling over the Czar since it was announced. Scalpel was a moderate upgrade over my TNT sultan-in regards to climbing and tight fast XC type stuff, but scalpel needs 100% attention going downhill. Had the 2nd gen Sultan but it didn't fit the role I wanted it to-crossing my fingers something fresh is coming next year. What size scalpel were you riding and what size Czar are you on now?
 
#61 · (Edited)
I have had a half dozen rides so far and have been tweaking the whole time. A few creaks and noises. Here are my top issues, tweaks...

1. Fox fork was sticking. Seals were almost impossible to slide up. Foam was bone dry. I ended up removing the lowers and doing a full service. Fox have lost the plot. Poor form supplying a fork so poorly prepped. Real disappointing.

2. All the Czar pivots needed checking. The DW link bolts were set really lightly. About 5nm. One bearing seal was mis installed. I fixed the issue,reset the bolts at 15nm and greased. Poor prepping Turner. Poor QA.

3. Ti headset compression bolt kept creaking. Gave up on it and went back to the standard cane creek bolt. Better.

4. The Stans Crest wheels seem too flexible for such a stiff fame. Am buying new American Classic Wide Lightning anyway.

5. Fox forks are too flexible as well. Rotor rub when out of the saddle. Did I say Fox has lost the plot.

6. Super ride and more but more tweaking on any bike I have built up in the last ten years. Very sensitive. Compared to my sultan an effort to get set.

7. X01 crank preload still makes no sense. I think it is set and preloaded but who and how would you know. Obvious first generation product.


So I love the Czar but there is much to consider to get setup trouble free. I am still not sure I have settled the creaks and snaps but hope so. Far from an easy build, compounded by the obvious drop in Fox fork quality. The seals were so tight cause the assembly was so dry and the fork poorly assembled. Dry seals and foam wipers. Doubt the oil level was correct.

CA.
 
#62 ·
Four days and four rides on my Czar and here are a few thoughts (all rides were pretty short, roughly an hour):

1. Nox Composites rims and I9 hubs: Spin up nicely, plenty stiff, set up tubeless easy (once I fixed the split tape on the rear), Loud-but not bothersome
2. Hope Race Evo X2 brakes: quiet, nice modulation, look beautiful, lever feels nice, not super powerful-but they are not a limitation
3. Descending on the Czar: after riding a Scalpel 29er for a year (and a flash 29er before that), the Czar descends awesome! I can sit on descents that I would be standing on my previous bikes. I took poor lines today on purpose, and the Czar handled them really well.
4. Climbing: the Czar climbs on par with my Scalpel (the Scalpel was 22lbs, 6oz, Czar is 23lbs, 11oz.) This is a testament to the Czar as the Scalpel was 2x10 and lighter.
5. Pedaling: this bike pedals great. DW link works.
6. XX1: Quiet. I am running a 32 tooth front right now. I may be switching to a 34, as we do not have much climbing in Southeast Michigan (just some short climbs.) Didn't feel like I was holding my riding buddies back today (both of them have SRAM XX.)
7. Wide bars: I am using the Thomson Carbon Flat bars (730mm.) I have not cut them down, yet. I was a wide bar holdout. My Scalpel had 590mm Easton Flat Bars. I am going to keep the thomsons at full width for a couple weeks. After two rides I started to like them. I notice the width in the tight and twisty stuff, but I might get used to that. i am thinking I may cut them to 700 or 680.

The other parts on the bike are parts I am familiar with (Rocket Ron SnakeSkin, ESI grips, pedals)

I, admittedly, was a bit of a weight weenie for the past couple years. I may still be conscious of weight, but I am on the road to recovery. When I started looking into the Czar, I was looking for a bike that was built for long rides, short hard rides, comfort, efficiency, and durability. All early indications are that this bike is going to achieve all of the above. What a fun bike.
 
#63 ·
An update on my build. Stiffer wheels noises eliminated.

I have replaced the Crest wheelset with a set of Specialized Roval carbons. Wow what a change in ride quality. The stiff Czar was just too much for the light alloy Crests. Perhaps I have gained weight as well. The Rovals have stiffened things up considerably and match the Czar perfectly. This frame suits stiffer wheels.

The Rovals came with a bag of wheel adapters. The tubeless strips were nicely installed with valves. Tires inflated with a cup of Stans. A bit of a leak at the valve but this sealed in ten seconds of shaking the wheel. Pumped to 45 psi. Then let down to about 30. Using Specialized Fast track tires so no surprise that they worked fine. The width increase is really noticeable over the crests. Should be able to run lower pressure.

The last little creak or occasional ping I had was from the Hope seat collar. Swapped for the supplied OEM Turner one. The Hope collar never gave me an issue on the Sultan. Guess it must have set itself to that bike cause it was not a happy part on the new Czar. Seems too loose or soft. Oh well. Did apply carbon grease on the Seatpost.

Lessened learned is that a new build sometimes needs some new parts. Starting to make the Turner built bikes seem better value.

So now I have a a noise free bike. Smooth suspension. All that is left is to trim the Formula brake lines. Just need an olive. Then a bleed. Still about 23lbs the Rovals didn't save on the crests. A wash I would say.

CA.
 
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