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  1. #1
    what...?
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    Customer Service???

    My 5spot has worked flawlessly for the past 5 1/2 years.
    Recently, I snapped a rocker arm. First reaction was to call Turner, as all of you have gushed praise on their amazing customer service.
    "Hello, this is Dave."
    "Hi, my rocker arm broke on my 2006 Spot and I'm in need of a replacement."
    "Hold on, I'll check if we have any from the exchange frame program."
    a few minutes later, "Sorry, nothing available"
    "So my alternative is the MTBR forum, I guess"
    "Well, you know you shouldn't be riding that bike anyway, as aluminum has a certain life to it and it could be dangerous."

    I couldn't believe what I was hearing. Are you going to tell me my $4K+ bike is now obsolete because, 1- there are no rockers available and, 2- I should spend $1900 that I don't have on a frame I don't need?????????

    Wow......I have no words........
    Without love in a dream it will never come true

  2. #2
    WIRVNTANASHRSH?
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    You $4K bike is probably mostly good, but your $600 frame is nearing it's fatigue life, especially if it's been ridden often and hard. It sucks, but DT can't magically change the properties of aluminum with good customer service. Maybe you should look into titanium if you're looking for a long term frameset??

  3. #3
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    JM, funny you talk about this, I just went through it on my 04 5 spot with a busted frame and the only alternative was to offer the exchange on a 12 frame and my price would only be $1700.00. Was told the same thing about the life expectancy of an aluminium frame. I was lucky and found an 06 frame with a TNT link and fox shock (dhx 5.0 air) for $725.00 delivered. I will have an extra set of rockers when I get my frame but these are 5.5 rockers so when I build it out and decide which rockers I am going to use I may have a set available. Have no idea what rockers are going for but if you can't find them I guess they must be worth alot. (just egging it on?)
    Still learning how to keep the rubber side down.

  4. #4
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    I can understand the frame breaking and then having to get a new frame thru the trade in, but these are rockers I'm talking about. Something that should be available by the builder (yeah, even for a price) for a least a few years after the frame goes out of production. What we have here is non support of a part that is just over two years out of production. $100-200 is alot different than having to come up with $2k.

    And as far as aluminum 'life', I hope David doesn't get into the aircraft wing business, lol.
    Without love in a dream it will never come true

  5. #5
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    Does suck they don't have rockers available. I don't think it's an end all to their service or anything, just that they ran out and no longer produce them.
    I'd just politely tell Dave that you'd like to take dibs on the next rockers that come in via trade in if possible.
    Otherwise I'd say you got your money worth out of the bike, so call it good and upgrade!
    "...like sex with the trail." - Boe

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmtbkr View Post
    What we have here is non support of a part that is just over two years out of production.
    What we have here is a failure of basic arithmetic. Your 2006 rockers went out of production...in 2006. It so happens that the 2007/2008 rockers are also compatible with your frame, but even they have been out of production for nearly four years now (DW bikes were announced September 2008).

    Obviously all of those models are out of their warranty period at this point, so Turner is under no obligation to support them. It would be nice if Turner could keep an infinite supply of replacement parts for bikes well past their warranty period, but that is impractical on a number of levels. It sucks that a relatively small/inexpensive part is keeping your bike from being rideable, but with a bit of patience/persistence I'm sure you'll get it back on the trail.
    ''It seems like a bit of a trend, everyone trying to make things longer over the last couple of years" Sam Hill

  7. #7
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    I've been buying up spare rockers & frames for a while now to keep my horst link spot & pack running for a few more years hopefully

  8. #8
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    Yes, aluminum does have a finite lifespan.
    So it seems to me to be, this thing that I think I see.

  9. #9
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    ... and if we just ... ?

    Wonder if carbon has a lifespan.......

  10. #10
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    come on guys,
    Give the baby some candies
    When trails gets tougher, Just stand up and deliver.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by miles e View Post
    What we have here is a failure of basic arithmetic. Your 2006 rockers went out of production...in 2006. It so happens that the 2007/2008 rockers are also compatible with your frame, but even they have been out of production for nearly four years now (DW bikes were announced September 2008).
    This is certainly the best response I've read in quite some time.

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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by miles e View Post
    What we have here is a failure of basic arithmetic. Your 2006 rockers went out of production...in 2006. It so happens that the 2007/2008 rockers are also compatible with your frame, but even they have been out of production for nearly four years now (DW bikes were announced September 2008).

    Obviously all of those models are out of their warranty period at this point, so Turner is under no obligation to support them. It would be nice if Turner could keep an infinite supply of replacement parts for bikes well past their warranty period, but that is impractical on a number of levels. It sucks that a relatively small/inexpensive part is keeping your bike from being rideable, but with a bit of patience/persistence I'm sure you'll get it back on the trail.
    That may be the case but heck, lets look at other companies as an example. Titus stopped making the ML in 2008. They also went belly up. You can still buy rockers for the ML from the new Titus/On One. That company actually paid to have them made as to support the older bikes. Bikes they have no obligation to support.

  13. #13
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    jmtbkr, did you tell DT how often you rode this bike, and how hard, or did he assume that the bike has had a long hard history of use? Aluminum doesn't fatigue so quickly if:
    It sits in a garage half a year, shares time with other bikes, and is ridden by a little old lady on her way to church on sundays only.
    Based on the information we have here, my conclusion is DT made a regretfull statement based on little information.
    And yes, he definetly should stay out of the aircraft building bussiness.
    ****

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    Based on the information we have here, my conclusion is DT made a regretfull statement based on little information.
    Based on the information you have, you shouldn't be making any conclusions about Dave's behavior.


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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    Based on the information we have here, my conclusion is DT made a regretfull statement based on little information.
    And yes, he definetly should stay out of the aircraft building bussiness.
    I think Turner went above and beyond. Can anyone fault Turner from not stocking parts to yester-years models. That would not make very good business sense since in California the taxes are huge for carrying inventory......who want to pay taxes on inventory you may sell someday. I would ask DT if he would be willing to hand over the drawings for the rockers or put you in contact with the machine shop that makes them......that way you can pay the asking price to get them made.

    The aircraft business is not comparing apples to apple here.......I know first hand what the USAF pays for aircraft parts to planes that have been out of production for a decade or so........it's on the magnitude of 1000 Time. So if the OP is willing to pony up the cash for new rockers then I have some for sale. I think the OP would reconsider the $600 frame credit at this point.

    .

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by royta View Post
    Based on the information you have, you shouldn't be making any conclusions about Dave's behavior.


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    I'm suggesting DT should not have said what he said; what was going through his head at the time, and the rest of the conversation that we have not heard, would speak volumes, and I'm not speculating as to what it was.
    Regarding the reference to the aircraft industries; planes have aluminum parts that are cycled and live pretty damn long lives considering what they go through. 5 spot rockers, and the rear triangles they articulate with, pale in comparison.
    So what do I know? I've been a machinist for 33 years, in all sorts of industries, and the company I work for is making the next space shuttle. So yea, I'm some hack talking out of my a s s. Oh, and yea, I own a 5 spot older than the one discussed here, and it's holding up just fine.
    ****

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    I'm suggesting DT should not have said what he said; what was going through his head at the time, and the rest of the conversation that we have not heard, would speak volumes, and I'm not speculating as to what it was.
    Regarding the reference to the aircraft industries; planes have aluminum parts that are cycled and live pretty damn long lives considering what they go through. 5 spot rockers, and the rear triangles they articulate with, pale in comparison.
    So what do I know? I've been a machinist for 33 years, in all sorts of industries, and the company I work for is making the next space shuttle. So yea, I'm some hack talking out of my a s s. Oh, and yea, I own a 5 spot older than the one discussed here, and it's holding up just fine.
    Yeah, you're just a hack who lives in the mountains and is shoveling two feet of white cement at the moment so you can find your car And your 5 Spot is holding up just fine because you don't ride it 12 months out of the year.
    So it seems to me to be, this thing that I think I see.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmtbkr View Post
    My 5spot has worked flawlessly for the past 5 1/2 years.
    Recently, I snapped a rocker arm. First reaction was to call Turner, as all of you have gushed praise on their amazing customer service.
    "Hello, this is Dave."
    "Hi, my rocker arm broke on my 2006 Spot and I'm in need of a replacement."
    "Hold on, I'll check if we have any from the exchange frame program."
    a few minutes later, "Sorry, nothing available"
    "So my alternative is the MTBR forum, I guess"
    "Well, you know you shouldn't be riding that bike anyway, as aluminum has a certain life to it and it could be dangerous."

    I couldn't believe what I was hearing. Are you going to tell me my $4K+ bike is now obsolete because, 1- there are no rockers available and, 2- I should spend $1900 that I don't have on a frame I don't need?????????

    Wow......I have no words........
    I understand a mass production, budget oriented company not keeping parts around for all of it's 5 year old bikes.

    However, a company that charges $2,500 for an aluminum frame, whose rep is based largely on outstanding costumer support, and who does not have many model in production to start with, should be able to support their frames for more than 5 years, IMO. I do not think that is an unreasonable expectation. Are they obligated to? No. But this is this type of thing that should separate a company like Turner from ones like KHS, Fugi, Mongoose.

    That said, if your first response to him saying "Sorry, nothing available" was "So my alternative is the MTBR forum, I guess" I am not surprised he blew you off. Perhaps I am not reading your response correctly, but it seemed like a threat to me. Did you ask if there was anything else he could do to work with you on this?
    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by twelve34 View Post
    Wonder if carbon has a lifespan.......
    It does. We just don't know it yet like we know aluminum.

  20. #20
    Daniel the Dog
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    Yaw, every FS frame has a life span but four years is silly unless you hammer it daily in the rocks or something...dangerous is super drama filled. I am guessing Dave had too much coffee that day or there is most to the story.
    Last edited by Jaybo; 04-16-2012 at 07:07 AM.

  21. #21
    DGC
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    rockers

    I thought I had something for you, but these are old RFX rockers, might even go back to Afterburner DH time line. Sorry.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Customer Service???-img_2867-copy.jpg  

    OUCH...!!!!!!

  22. #22
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    hi jmtbkr! initially i wasn't too happy about DT's response to your rocker request. after a while, though, i got to thinking that maybe you (and me) should take his warning a bit more seriously to prevent serious injury. here's an example, about 2 years ago i bought a pair of bontrager team issue 29-3 (TLR) for my sultan. i was into getting lightweight high volume tires but the guy at the LBS told me not to get them for the rocky terrain i go through cause the sidewalls wouldn't hold up. i said, "so what!, worst i can do is get a new tire!" a month later my front tire caught a sharp rock on a steep incline causing instantaneous deflation dropping the front end down and throwing me over the front. luckily i wasn't hurt seriously, just my pride and today for the terrain i ride i only use tires with beefier sidewalls.

    so the moral of the story for me at least is that after 5 years of riding my sultan, maybe it's time i think of getting a new frame.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbiker4life View Post
    I think Turner went above and beyond. Can anyone fault Turner from not stocking parts to yester-years models. That would not make very good business sense since in California the taxes are huge for carrying inventory......who want to pay taxes on inventory you may sell someday. I would ask DT if he would be willing to hand over the drawings for the rockers or put you in contact with the machine shop that makes them......that way you can pay the asking price to get them made.

    The aircraft business is not comparing apples to apple here.......I know first hand what the USAF pays for aircraft parts to planes that have been out of production for a decade or so........it's on the magnitude of 1000 Time. So if the OP is willing to pony up the cash for new rockers then I have some for sale. I think the OP would reconsider the $600 frame credit at this point.

    .
    And Titus can? I think this kinda thinking is a cop out. If this was an Ellsworth everybody would be in flames.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vespasianus View Post
    And Titus can? I think this kinda thinking is a cop out. If this was an Ellsworth everybody would be in flames.
    No, Titus could not...and be profitable at the same time. From what I gathered from this thread, Titus went out of business. The new owners of Titus can, but isn't Titus made overseas now? Maybe we should see what we can do to get Dave to go under, have some new owner mass produce the frames overseas, and then we can have all the rockers we want. Give me a break! It's ridiculous to compare Titus to Turner.

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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by royta View Post
    No, Titus could not...and be profitable at the same time. From what I gathered from this thread, Titus went out of business. The new owners of Titus can, but isn't Titus made overseas now? Maybe we should see what we can do to get Dave to go under, have some new owner mass produce the frames overseas, and then we can have all the rockers we want. Give me a break! It's ridiculous to compare Titus to Turner.

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    Dude, they are both bike companies. Titus/ On one decided to support the older frames by stocking rockers for a bike that went out of production in 2008. Pretty simple. They did not even have to do it as they had no responsibility for bikes prior to their purchase. What Titus was or why it went under is not germane to this argument. In 2012, one company has parts for a bike that went out of production in 2008. Another one does not. Simple.

  26. #26
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    I honestly wasn't that impressed with Turner the one time I had an issue with a frame. They certainly weren't obligated to do anything, but they didn't live up to their reputation for awesome service either. I actually chatted with the dealer I bought both my Turners from later on and he agreed that their service has declined somewhat in recent years. He basically said that they'll take care of you within the warranty period but the days of "best in the industry" service are gone. Which is fine, but it certainly changes the value proposition of their frames to me.

    I actually ended up on an Ibis as a (roundabout) result of that interaction and couldn't be happier. Cie la vie.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmtbkr View Post
    My 5spot has worked flawlessly for the past 5 1/2 years.
    Recently, I snapped a rocker arm. First reaction was to call Turner, as all of you have gushed praise on their amazing customer service.
    "Hello, this is Dave."
    "Hi, my rocker arm broke on my 2006 Spot and I'm in need of a replacement."
    "Hold on, I'll check if we have any from the exchange frame program."
    a few minutes later, "Sorry, nothing available"
    "So my alternative is the MTBR forum, I guess"
    "Well, you know you shouldn't be riding that bike anyway, as aluminum has a certain life to it and it could be dangerous."

    I couldn't believe what I was hearing. Are you going to tell me my $4K+ bike is now obsolete because, 1- there are no rockers available and, 2- I should spend $1900 that I don't have on a frame I don't need?????????

    Wow......I have no words........
    I think this was a classic case of Dave being honest and thinking out loud. It got him into lots of trouble when he was developing the DW RFX. He told everybody everything and it bit him in the butt.

    He was probably thinking about your bike from a structural/engineering perspective and said exactly what he was thinking.

    Honestly, I've never had a conversation with him under 20 minutes long. it's weird yours was so (apperantly) trunkated.
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  28. #28
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    Really?

    I am certain that is what you heard, but that is certainly not verbatim. When you put someone in quotes you better be dam certain that is exactly what the person said, verbatim.

    I did say that aluminum has a fatigue life, and that a bike that is old enough to break a rocker has fatigue through out the whole frame. You should be checking for cracks, I think you missed that part when mis quoting me and that riding without checking for cracks is dangerous. I never said you SHOULD NOT ride your bike, that as the bike ages it may show cracks and you should be aware of that.

    Yes you said your alternative is MTBR as there certainly could be someone that has some spare rockers, either Turner or PUSH they may want to sell. I did not think you meant using MTBR to throw me under the bus and try to get some kind of anti Turner Bikes vibe to push me to do more than look for a set of used rockers in the back.

    We offer everyone with an out of commission Turner Bike a 28% discount, that ain't service? Many of the people did not even buy it new, that ain't service? We keep old parts around that we pay for the space of in the chance someone like you can get a cheap used part for their old bike, that ain't service?

    Sorry, but we fell short of your expectations.

    DT

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vespasianus View Post
    Dude, they are both bike companies. Titus/ On one decided to support the older frames by stocking rockers for a bike that went out of production in 2008. Pretty simple. They did not even have to do it as they had no responsibility for bikes prior to their purchase. What Titus was or why it went under is not germane to this argument. In 2012, one company has parts for a bike that went out of production in 2008. Another one does not. Simple.
    Right, right. They're both bike companies. So they should all act the same, right?

    Sorry, but using a company that went belly up as an example of sound business practices doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Sure, the new On One owner has made a business decision to support a product they were not directly involved with. Big deal. I would much rather have Dave Turner at the reins and risk not having rockers for a 6 year old bike frame.

    Your argument is a joke...and I can't imagine I'm the only one annoyed by it.

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  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by royta View Post
    Right, right. They're both bike companies. So they should all act the same, right?

    Sorry, but using a company that went belly up as an example of sound business practices doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Sure, the new On One owner has made a business decision to support a product they were not directly involved with. Big deal. I would much rather have Dave Turner at the reins and risk not having rockers for a 6 year old bike frame.

    Your argument is a joke...and I can't imagine I'm the only one annoyed by it.

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    Nothing wrong with vespanius (sp?) making his argument. But what I find weird is the OP posted about this subject a week ago - and then waited a week to start another thread and throw DT under the bus.
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  31. #31
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    Love you DT.
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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes View Post
    I am certain that is what you heard, but that is certainly not verbatim. When you put someone in quotes you better be dam certain that is exactly what the person said, verbatim.

    I did say that aluminum has a fatigue life, and that a bike that is old enough to break a rocker has fatigue through out the whole frame. You should be checking for cracks, I think you missed that part when mis quoting me and that riding without checking for cracks is dangerous. I never said you SHOULD NOT ride your bike, that as the bike ages it may show cracks and you should be aware of that.

    Yes you said your alternative is MTBR as there certainly could be someone that has some spare rockers, either Turner or PUSH they may want to sell. I did not think you meant using MTBR to throw me under the bus and try to get some kind of anti Turner Bikes vibe to push me to do more than look for a set of used rockers in the back.

    We offer everyone with an out of commission Turner Bike a 28% discount, that ain't service? Many of the people did not even buy it new, that ain't service? We keep old parts around that we pay for the space of in the chance someone like you can get a cheap used part for their old bike, that ain't service?

    Sorry, but we fell short of your expectations.

    DT
    For what it's worth: This thread, with your post, has made me trust Turner more, not less!

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes View Post
    I am certain that is what you heard, but that is certainly not verbatim. When you put someone in quotes you better be dam certain that is exactly what the person said, verbatim.

    I did say that aluminum has a fatigue life, and that a bike that is old enough to break a rocker has fatigue through out the whole frame. You should be checking for cracks, I think you missed that part when mis quoting me and that riding without checking for cracks is dangerous. I never said you SHOULD NOT ride your bike, that as the bike ages it may show cracks and you should be aware of that.

    Yes you said your alternative is MTBR as there certainly could be someone that has some spare rockers, either Turner or PUSH they may want to sell. I did not think you meant using MTBR to throw me under the bus and try to get some kind of anti Turner Bikes vibe to push me to do more than look for a set of used rockers in the back.

    We offer everyone with an out of commission Turner Bike a 28% discount, that ain't service? Many of the people did not even buy it new, that ain't service? We keep old parts around that we pay for the space of in the chance someone like you can get a cheap used part for their old bike, that ain't service?

    Sorry, but we fell short of your expectations.

    DT
    COME ON DT, you don't need to explain yourself
    stop wasting your time,
    Go back to your workshop finished that 27.5 thing or the RFX that we been waiting for
    When trails gets tougher, Just stand up and deliver.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by xcguy View Post
    Yeah, you're just a hack who lives in the mountains and is shoveling two feet of white cement at the moment so you can find your car And your 5 Spot is holding up just fine because you don't ride it 12 months out of the year.
    We've been really lucky this spring; no monster three foot drops. December through Febuary wind drifts were kind of hard though.
    So the spring has been kind to us, and I have ridden my ancient 5 Spot three times since I last posted, rejuevenated with a Rockshox Plus RC3, which seems like a fabulous shock, and I am happy to say, I again like my old Spot. Great bike, very versatile.
    Sold the banshee overseas made thing for another overseas made thing. No, not another Turner. A Titus El Guapo. Nice bike, FRICKEN great price. $1000.00 dollar frame!
    ****

  35. #35
    MHC
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    So how do I get this great customer service?
    I've email Turner threes times regarding my 5 spot & have had zero replies so far.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by MHC View Post
    So how do I get this great customer service?
    I've email Turner threes times regarding my 5 spot & have had zero replies so far.
    call them. their email system has had problems.
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  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by iheartbicycles View Post
    call them. their email system has had problems.
    You will have to google the number, they do not give it on the website.
    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by kapusta View Post
    You will have to google the number, they do not give it on the website.
    I bumped it in a thread last week.
    Stupid, but sometimes witty. Occasionally brilliant. Slow and fat though.

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  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by iheartbicycles View Post
    I bumped it in a thread last week.
    I'm sure that's the first place anyone would look!


  40. #40
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    Hope you can find a set.
    Last edited by trlrdr; 04-25-2012 at 05:32 AM.
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  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrwhlr View Post
    I'm sure that's the first place anyone would look!

    it should be a sticky
    Stupid, but sometimes witty. Occasionally brilliant. Slow and fat though.

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  42. #42
    tg
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    I only wish the peeps that service my wife's VW would treat us half as well as Dave has over the last 12 years. He is a guy who will do what ever is in his power to keep you rollin. His bikes have soul and so does he. Find yourself some Push rockers and ride that Spot like you stole it.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by iheartbicycles View Post
    it should be a sticky
    It should be on their website, not some 3rd party site.

  44. #44
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    Well, sure. They are listed on yellowpages, though. It's not that hard to find if you need to.

    Turner Suspension Bicycles Murrieta, CA, 92562 - YP.com

    41615 Date St, Murrieta, CA 92562 - Google Maps

  45. #45
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    Dave has been keeping me very happy since 1995, ive been thru several (5plus))bikes and the 2 times i have had a problem after several thousand miles, he has done a good job with warranty,but we are several model versions ahead now ,so if theres no spares out there ,Push is a direction ,or bite the bullet an pik up a complete used frame (ebay) or a new one .its a slippery slope sometimes.
    Last edited by trlrdr; 04-23-2012 at 03:56 PM.
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  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by the-one1 View Post
    It should be on their website, not some 3rd party site.
    Agreed. If they don't respond to email, and prefer calls, why give an email link and withhold the phone number on their website?
    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

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    I have a set of 5.1 rockers that I am not using...they came off a 05 spot...they will fit your 06.. Let me know if you are interested.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by kapusta View Post
    Agreed. If they don't respond to email, and prefer calls, why give an email link and withhold the phone number on their website?
    It's not that they dont respond. They had a technical issue with their email and didnt receive emails sent through the website.
    Stupid, but sometimes witty. Occasionally brilliant. Slow and fat though.

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  49. #49
    MHC
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    Agreed. If they don't respond to email, and prefer calls, why give an email link and withhold the phone number on their website?
    Yes I must admit that this is pretty poor - not the service I was expecting after getting a problem less than 5 months on a new bike.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by MHC View Post
    Yes I must admit that this is pretty poor - not the service I was expecting after getting a problem less than 5 months on a new bike.
    Did you buy the bike direct from Turner or a shop?

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