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  1. #1
    what...?
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    Customer Service???

    My 5spot has worked flawlessly for the past 5 1/2 years.
    Recently, I snapped a rocker arm. First reaction was to call Turner, as all of you have gushed praise on their amazing customer service.
    "Hello, this is Dave."
    "Hi, my rocker arm broke on my 2006 Spot and I'm in need of a replacement."
    "Hold on, I'll check if we have any from the exchange frame program."
    a few minutes later, "Sorry, nothing available"
    "So my alternative is the MTBR forum, I guess"
    "Well, you know you shouldn't be riding that bike anyway, as aluminum has a certain life to it and it could be dangerous."

    I couldn't believe what I was hearing. Are you going to tell me my $4K+ bike is now obsolete because, 1- there are no rockers available and, 2- I should spend $1900 that I don't have on a frame I don't need?????????

    Wow......I have no words........
    Without love in a dream it will never come true

  2. #2
    WIRVNTANASHRSH?
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    You $4K bike is probably mostly good, but your $600 frame is nearing it's fatigue life, especially if it's been ridden often and hard. It sucks, but DT can't magically change the properties of aluminum with good customer service. Maybe you should look into titanium if you're looking for a long term frameset??

  3. #3
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    JM, funny you talk about this, I just went through it on my 04 5 spot with a busted frame and the only alternative was to offer the exchange on a 12 frame and my price would only be $1700.00. Was told the same thing about the life expectancy of an aluminium frame. I was lucky and found an 06 frame with a TNT link and fox shock (dhx 5.0 air) for $725.00 delivered. I will have an extra set of rockers when I get my frame but these are 5.5 rockers so when I build it out and decide which rockers I am going to use I may have a set available. Have no idea what rockers are going for but if you can't find them I guess they must be worth alot. (just egging it on?)
    Still learning how to keep the rubber side down.

  4. #4
    what...?
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    I can understand the frame breaking and then having to get a new frame thru the trade in, but these are rockers I'm talking about. Something that should be available by the builder (yeah, even for a price) for a least a few years after the frame goes out of production. What we have here is non support of a part that is just over two years out of production. $100-200 is alot different than having to come up with $2k.

    And as far as aluminum 'life', I hope David doesn't get into the aircraft wing business, lol.
    Without love in a dream it will never come true

  5. #5
    nocturnal oblivion
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    Does suck they don't have rockers available. I don't think it's an end all to their service or anything, just that they ran out and no longer produce them.
    I'd just politely tell Dave that you'd like to take dibs on the next rockers that come in via trade in if possible.
    Otherwise I'd say you got your money worth out of the bike, so call it good and upgrade!
    "...like sex with the trail." - Boe

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmtbkr View Post
    What we have here is non support of a part that is just over two years out of production.
    What we have here is a failure of basic arithmetic. Your 2006 rockers went out of production...in 2006. It so happens that the 2007/2008 rockers are also compatible with your frame, but even they have been out of production for nearly four years now (DW bikes were announced September 2008).

    Obviously all of those models are out of their warranty period at this point, so Turner is under no obligation to support them. It would be nice if Turner could keep an infinite supply of replacement parts for bikes well past their warranty period, but that is impractical on a number of levels. It sucks that a relatively small/inexpensive part is keeping your bike from being rideable, but with a bit of patience/persistence I'm sure you'll get it back on the trail.
    A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have.

  7. #7
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    I've been buying up spare rockers & frames for a while now to keep my horst link spot & pack running for a few more years hopefully

  8. #8
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    Yes, aluminum does have a finite lifespan.
    A blind man searches in a dark room for a black hat that isn't there. Dashiell Hammett

  9. #9
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    ... and if we just ... ?

    Wonder if carbon has a lifespan.......

  10. #10
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    come on guys,
    Give the baby some candies
    When trails gets tougher, Just stand up and deliver.

  11. #11
    over researcher
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    Quote Originally Posted by miles e View Post
    What we have here is a failure of basic arithmetic. Your 2006 rockers went out of production...in 2006. It so happens that the 2007/2008 rockers are also compatible with your frame, but even they have been out of production for nearly four years now (DW bikes were announced September 2008).
    This is certainly the best response I've read in quite some time.

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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by miles e View Post
    What we have here is a failure of basic arithmetic. Your 2006 rockers went out of production...in 2006. It so happens that the 2007/2008 rockers are also compatible with your frame, but even they have been out of production for nearly four years now (DW bikes were announced September 2008).

    Obviously all of those models are out of their warranty period at this point, so Turner is under no obligation to support them. It would be nice if Turner could keep an infinite supply of replacement parts for bikes well past their warranty period, but that is impractical on a number of levels. It sucks that a relatively small/inexpensive part is keeping your bike from being rideable, but with a bit of patience/persistence I'm sure you'll get it back on the trail.
    That may be the case but heck, lets look at other companies as an example. Titus stopped making the ML in 2008. They also went belly up. You can still buy rockers for the ML from the new Titus/On One. That company actually paid to have them made as to support the older bikes. Bikes they have no obligation to support.

  13. #13
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    jmtbkr, did you tell DT how often you rode this bike, and how hard, or did he assume that the bike has had a long hard history of use? Aluminum doesn't fatigue so quickly if:
    It sits in a garage half a year, shares time with other bikes, and is ridden by a little old lady on her way to church on sundays only.
    Based on the information we have here, my conclusion is DT made a regretfull statement based on little information.
    And yes, he definetly should stay out of the aircraft building bussiness.
    ****

  14. #14
    over researcher
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    Based on the information we have here, my conclusion is DT made a regretfull statement based on little information.
    Based on the information you have, you shouldn't be making any conclusions about Dave's behavior.


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  15. #15
    The Bubble Wrap Hysteria
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    Based on the information we have here, my conclusion is DT made a regretfull statement based on little information.
    And yes, he definetly should stay out of the aircraft building bussiness.
    I think Turner went above and beyond. Can anyone fault Turner from not stocking parts to yester-years models. That would not make very good business sense since in California the taxes are huge for carrying inventory......who want to pay taxes on inventory you may sell someday. I would ask DT if he would be willing to hand over the drawings for the rockers or put you in contact with the machine shop that makes them......that way you can pay the asking price to get them made.

    The aircraft business is not comparing apples to apple here.......I know first hand what the USAF pays for aircraft parts to planes that have been out of production for a decade or so........it's on the magnitude of 1000 Time. So if the OP is willing to pony up the cash for new rockers then I have some for sale. I think the OP would reconsider the $600 frame credit at this point.

    .

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by royta View Post
    Based on the information you have, you shouldn't be making any conclusions about Dave's behavior.


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    I'm suggesting DT should not have said what he said; what was going through his head at the time, and the rest of the conversation that we have not heard, would speak volumes, and I'm not speculating as to what it was.
    Regarding the reference to the aircraft industries; planes have aluminum parts that are cycled and live pretty damn long lives considering what they go through. 5 spot rockers, and the rear triangles they articulate with, pale in comparison.
    So what do I know? I've been a machinist for 33 years, in all sorts of industries, and the company I work for is making the next space shuttle. So yea, I'm some hack talking out of my a s s. Oh, and yea, I own a 5 spot older than the one discussed here, and it's holding up just fine.
    ****

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    I'm suggesting DT should not have said what he said; what was going through his head at the time, and the rest of the conversation that we have not heard, would speak volumes, and I'm not speculating as to what it was.
    Regarding the reference to the aircraft industries; planes have aluminum parts that are cycled and live pretty damn long lives considering what they go through. 5 spot rockers, and the rear triangles they articulate with, pale in comparison.
    So what do I know? I've been a machinist for 33 years, in all sorts of industries, and the company I work for is making the next space shuttle. So yea, I'm some hack talking out of my a s s. Oh, and yea, I own a 5 spot older than the one discussed here, and it's holding up just fine.
    Yeah, you're just a hack who lives in the mountains and is shoveling two feet of white cement at the moment so you can find your car And your 5 Spot is holding up just fine because you don't ride it 12 months out of the year.
    A blind man searches in a dark room for a black hat that isn't there. Dashiell Hammett

  18. #18
    Bicyclochondriac.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmtbkr View Post
    My 5spot has worked flawlessly for the past 5 1/2 years.
    Recently, I snapped a rocker arm. First reaction was to call Turner, as all of you have gushed praise on their amazing customer service.
    "Hello, this is Dave."
    "Hi, my rocker arm broke on my 2006 Spot and I'm in need of a replacement."
    "Hold on, I'll check if we have any from the exchange frame program."
    a few minutes later, "Sorry, nothing available"
    "So my alternative is the MTBR forum, I guess"
    "Well, you know you shouldn't be riding that bike anyway, as aluminum has a certain life to it and it could be dangerous."

    I couldn't believe what I was hearing. Are you going to tell me my $4K+ bike is now obsolete because, 1- there are no rockers available and, 2- I should spend $1900 that I don't have on a frame I don't need?????????

    Wow......I have no words........
    I understand a mass production, budget oriented company not keeping parts around for all of it's 5 year old bikes.

    However, a company that charges $2,500 for an aluminum frame, whose rep is based largely on outstanding costumer support, and who does not have many model in production to start with, should be able to support their frames for more than 5 years, IMO. I do not think that is an unreasonable expectation. Are they obligated to? No. But this is this type of thing that should separate a company like Turner from ones like KHS, Fugi, Mongoose.

    That said, if your first response to him saying "Sorry, nothing available" was "So my alternative is the MTBR forum, I guess" I am not surprised he blew you off. Perhaps I am not reading your response correctly, but it seemed like a threat to me. Did you ask if there was anything else he could do to work with you on this?
    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by twelve34 View Post
    Wonder if carbon has a lifespan.......
    It does. We just don't know it yet like we know aluminum.

  20. #20
    Daniel the Dog
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    Yaw, every FS frame has a life span but four years is silly unless you hammer it daily in the rocks or something...dangerous is super drama filled. I am guessing Dave had too much coffee that day or there is most to the story.
    Last edited by Jaybo; 04-16-2012 at 07:07 AM.

  21. #21
    DGC
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    rockers

    I thought I had something for you, but these are old RFX rockers, might even go back to Afterburner DH time line. Sorry.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Customer Service???-img_2867-copy.jpg  

    OUCH...!!!!!!

  22. #22
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    hi jmtbkr! initially i wasn't too happy about DT's response to your rocker request. after a while, though, i got to thinking that maybe you (and me) should take his warning a bit more seriously to prevent serious injury. here's an example, about 2 years ago i bought a pair of bontrager team issue 29-3 (TLR) for my sultan. i was into getting lightweight high volume tires but the guy at the LBS told me not to get them for the rocky terrain i go through cause the sidewalls wouldn't hold up. i said, "so what!, worst i can do is get a new tire!" a month later my front tire caught a sharp rock on a steep incline causing instantaneous deflation dropping the front end down and throwing me over the front. luckily i wasn't hurt seriously, just my pride and today for the terrain i ride i only use tires with beefier sidewalls.

    so the moral of the story for me at least is that after 5 years of riding my sultan, maybe it's time i think of getting a new frame.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbiker4life View Post
    I think Turner went above and beyond. Can anyone fault Turner from not stocking parts to yester-years models. That would not make very good business sense since in California the taxes are huge for carrying inventory......who want to pay taxes on inventory you may sell someday. I would ask DT if he would be willing to hand over the drawings for the rockers or put you in contact with the machine shop that makes them......that way you can pay the asking price to get them made.

    The aircraft business is not comparing apples to apple here.......I know first hand what the USAF pays for aircraft parts to planes that have been out of production for a decade or so........it's on the magnitude of 1000 Time. So if the OP is willing to pony up the cash for new rockers then I have some for sale. I think the OP would reconsider the $600 frame credit at this point.

    .
    And Titus can? I think this kinda thinking is a cop out. If this was an Ellsworth everybody would be in flames.

  24. #24
    over researcher
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vespasianus View Post
    And Titus can? I think this kinda thinking is a cop out. If this was an Ellsworth everybody would be in flames.
    No, Titus could not...and be profitable at the same time. From what I gathered from this thread, Titus went out of business. The new owners of Titus can, but isn't Titus made overseas now? Maybe we should see what we can do to get Dave to go under, have some new owner mass produce the frames overseas, and then we can have all the rockers we want. Give me a break! It's ridiculous to compare Titus to Turner.

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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by royta View Post
    No, Titus could not...and be profitable at the same time. From what I gathered from this thread, Titus went out of business. The new owners of Titus can, but isn't Titus made overseas now? Maybe we should see what we can do to get Dave to go under, have some new owner mass produce the frames overseas, and then we can have all the rockers we want. Give me a break! It's ridiculous to compare Titus to Turner.

    Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2
    Dude, they are both bike companies. Titus/ On one decided to support the older frames by stocking rockers for a bike that went out of production in 2008. Pretty simple. They did not even have to do it as they had no responsibility for bikes prior to their purchase. What Titus was or why it went under is not germane to this argument. In 2012, one company has parts for a bike that went out of production in 2008. Another one does not. Simple.

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