View Poll Results: Which do you think will happen????

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  • Go overseas. With tapered and X-12.

    25 28.41%
  • Go overseas with Full 1.5 HT and NO X-12

    13 14.77%
  • Stay USA but with Full 1.5 HT No X-12

    25 28.41%
  • Stay Usa with original proto spec and hope it gets built. Someday?!?!

    25 28.41%
Results 1 to 49 of 49
  1. #1
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    Compromise or not (DW RFX)

    Needless to say I'm Bummed to hear about the RFX.
    If DT lowered prices by going overseas and got rid of some of the Foo Foo extras (ie Tapered and X-12) would you still buy one?

  2. #2
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    who is riding the proto? That's what I'm really wondering about....

  3. #3
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    Rfx

    I will have the RFX back from DW this week. He was playing with it for awhile, low mounted front derailer turned into a mud pile in his neck of the woods. Putting 142 would not increase or decrease the cost to me, tapering would, but this is no bike for tapered HT anyway. The way this bike is slowly, ever so slowly developing, would be to a 1.5 straight HT. On the subject of rear axle the way this bike is so much more GNARCORE than the old ones it would have to be 150mm to be worthy of those of that class, up to 13 riders now. Promising.

    Really, this bike is not in the same league as the old RFX, the old RFX in various forms is closer to the new 5 Spot in rigidity and geometry when similarly equipped in shock and fork. So naturally the proto RFX takes on a more GNARCORE attitude. But, who really needs it, shouldn't the poll be on either a GNARCORE RFX/Highline, or a slacker slightly longer travel RFX/5Spot? If the old RFX was so popular than maybe the that is all that is needed, but pedaling better, and slacker and lower as the current style dictates. yes yes, ISCG and 142x12 for more gnarcore, but not too GNARCORE as that will just make it appealing to the very few in the world.

    DT

  4. #4
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    Yes a slacker longer travel RFX/Spot please.

  5. #5
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    Another vote for the slacker slightly longer travel RFX/5Spot

  6. #6
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    Yup slightly longer travel lower Spot/rfx, ideally via rockers and/or the rear end so that it can be retrofitted into the current dw-spot.
    Hear no evil. See no evil. Speak no evil. (Do it !?!)

  7. #7
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    Would it be completely offensive to offer US made models and Asian made ones? Sort of like the factory models from other manufacturers. I want the low maintenance features of Turners with the dw-link design but draw the line @ around $1600 for a bike frame. I have to many other hobbies.

  8. #8
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    Slacker and longer Spot please and go overseas while you are at it. I think for a lot of riders the 170 mm rear travel falls into a dead zone. If riders need that much travel why not go for a true DH or FR frame. Most riders don't need that much travel and will stick with the 140-160 mm frames. It turns into a jack of all trades, master of none.

    I think for Turner bikes to make a significant come back you have to drop the price. Overseas seems like the only way to do this. You will never compete with the Nomad, Enduro, Rune, Reign, etc.... with such high prices. If you could produce a Spot/RFX in the 150-160 mm travel range for $1800-$2000 I think it would out sell the Nomad 2:1. Sure a few would ***** and complain for a while but I think most would be happy if the price came down significantly. I personally think SC bikes are way over hyped and expensive for what they are. I don't know how Giant can sell the Reign X frame for $1450 and SC charges $2150 for the Nomad. I guess it is all about marketing.

    Like I was saying before:
    True AM Spot

    I think the market is ready for a slacker/lower Spot. Riders have figured out they really like the slacker geometry, but they don't need over 6" of travel.

    I hope to see Turner Bikes progressing well into the future. Good luck with all future endeavors.

    TG

    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes
    I will have the RFX back from DW this week. He was playing with it for awhile, low mounted front derailer turned into a mud pile in his neck of the woods. Putting 142 would not increase or decrease the cost to me, tapering would, but this is no bike for tapered HT anyway. The way this bike is slowly, ever so slowly developing, would be to a 1.5 straight HT. On the subject of rear axle the way this bike is so much more GNARCORE than the old ones it would have to be 150mm to be worthy of those of that class, up to 13 riders now. Promising.

    Really, this bike is not in the same league as the old RFX, the old RFX in various forms is closer to the new 5 Spot in rigidity and geometry when similarly equipped in shock and fork. So naturally the proto RFX takes on a more GNARCORE attitude. But, who really needs it, shouldn't the poll be on either a GNARCORE RFX/Highline, or a slacker slightly longer travel RFX/5Spot? If the old RFX was so popular than maybe the that is all that is needed, but pedaling better, and slacker and lower as the current style dictates. yes yes, ISCG and 142x12 for more gnarcore, but not too GNARCORE as that will just make it appealing to the very few in the world.

    DT

  9. #9
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    Yep I've said it before, the 5-Spot is getting outdated, so It's time to move on. I like 44mm Headtubes and BB30, slacker geo and more travel.... And make sure that all sizes are coil Friendly.

    But the world still needs an RFX.

  10. #10
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    Take a look a this article... Link

    44mm Headtubes looks good and simple, are cheap to made, and now you can use a tapered fork with them.

  11. #11
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    this is my point too. people are yelling and screaming that you don't need a 6" bike and it is overkill, etc. so why is it that when i get on 67 degree HT nomad i feel so much safer and it's much easier to go through the chunkier more dangerous stuff? nearly every off fireroad, single track i go to has a place where i need that extra help so i don't "walk a bike".

    Quote Originally Posted by G-AIR
    I think the market is ready for a slacker/lower Spot. Riders have figured out they really like the slacker geometry, but they don't need over 6" of travel.
    TG
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Compromise or not (DW RFX)-983602.jpg  


  12. #12
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    If the old RFX was so popular than maybe the that is all that is needed, but pedaling better, and slacker and lower as the current style dictates.

    Yep...

  13. #13
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    HT dims

    Hmm, I think I heard about that 44 thing months ago! That was the brain child of Sean from Vertigo custom frames up in Oregon. Glad CC is taking the ball and running with it, no one else he talked to would listen. But when CC heard about it they knew it was the cool stuff.

    DT

  14. #14
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    I vote for a more RFX/Highline type Bike. Basiclaly what the Proto is minus the Tapered HT.

    The 5spot already covers the Trail/ Am spectrum. We need the next step up.

  15. #15
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    160mm Spot. HA right around 66.5 w/Fox 36. 13.75" BB. Slightly longer WB than the existing 140mm model. Toptube .25" shorter than existing models, and shorten the headtube back to pre-dwspot length.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by tald
    Yup slightly longer travel lower Spot/rfx, ideally via rockers and/or the rear end so that it can be retrofitted into the current dw-spot.
    Making different rockers for a dw-link bike will just make it ride worse. Changing travel etc.. requires a complete redesign to get the performance that riders expect.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyN
    160mm Spot. HA right around 66.5 w/Fox 36. 13.75" BB. Slightly longer WB than the existing 140mm model. Toptube .25" shorter than existing models, and shorten the headtube back to pre-dwspot length.
    A hair lower BB for me, and I have long arms and like short stems so I will take the long TT, but that sounds like a FUN bike all in all!
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  18. #18
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    Drats. Just jumped on the DW spot bandwagon. Maybe I should have waited for the 2011 Spot. Se la vi.
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  19. #19
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    Lower, slacker 5 spot / RFX. Something that competes directly with the nomad, firebird etc.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by _dw
    A hair lower BB for me, and I have long arms and like short stems so I will take the long TT, but that sounds like a FUN bike all in all!
    Don't tell me, tell DT!

  21. #21
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    Lower, slacker spot; travel can be reduced to under 140mm as long as it's a hot bike. Variable head angle. Something like this:



    I haven't purchased a frame brand new since 1998, this one might break that trend.
    ****

  22. #22
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    67 degree HA, 1.5HT, 160-170mm rear travel, 7 pound aluminum frame. I already have a bike like that but I will buy a Turner RFX if it came out close to those specs and MSRP $2300 or less for the frame.

    I was one of those who asked about a carbon 5spot at the Turner demo last month at Bootleg.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by smithrider
    Lower, slacker 5 spot / RFX. Something that competes directly with the nomad, firebird etc.

    Firebird has more travel. How would a 160 Spot be able to keep up.
    I think the original RFX-DW is the Bees Knees!!!

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by TIMBERRR
    Firebird has more travel. How would a 160 Spot be able to keep up.
    'cause it's not about how long your johnson is, but how you throw it around.
    I tell you what, you get your bird, I'll ride that banshee shown above, and we'll race down schoolbus. Try to keep up with me.
    ****

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade
    'cause it's not about how long your johnson is, but how you throw it around.
    I tell you what, you get your bird, I'll ride that banshee shown above, and we'll race down schoolbus. Try to keep up with me.
    What he said!

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade
    'cause it's not about how long your johnson is, but how you throw it around.
    I tell you what, you get your bird, I'll ride that banshee shown above, and we'll race down schoolbus. Try to keep up with me.

    I'm Game. The only thing you'll see is my HAHAHAHA

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by _dw
    A hair lower BB for me, and I have long arms and like short stems so I will take the long TT, but that sounds like a FUN bike all in all!
    Add a 1.5 HT and you have a winner!


    Build the proto RFX with a 1.5 HT, 65 - 66 adjustable HA, 150 rear, 6.5 - 7 inches of rear coil travel and you'd have a Fontana killer!!
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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by TIMBERRR
    I'm Game. The only thing you'll see is my HAHAHAHA
    I'd like to see a "tweener"! 180mm rear travel. 150mm rear and 83mm BB. 8.5-9 lb frameset. Basically the bike between the 08 RFX and Highline, but with DW.
    Team Sanchez; "Always hittin the upper lip"

  29. #29
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    I'm with Rennie

    on this one - I have seriously been looking at the Banshee Spitfire - looks to be a great bike for multiple uses, and the head Banshee dude is as responsive on MTBR as DT, which I find unusual. My only beef with the spitfire is that the head dude has said it is primarily designed for an air shock and I prefer coil, even for shorter travel bikes. Look at their website and forum, some pretty cool bikes! Maybe/hopefully this kinda frame is what DT is alluding to in other posts - in between a flux and a spot with some slack geo.
    I once corrected DW about a bicycle related topic.

  30. #30
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    I think beefed up Spot is more logical.

    The Highline showed that freeride is a tough sell at full pop, on close out they flew off shelves (and one into my house) but I doubt a dw version would make a massive difference to the numbers, even if it is tamed slightly. Freeride is a very niche area, everyone went this way ages ago only to realize that the bulk of us don't live near the trails that these bikes are really built for, bonus for those who do.

    There's clearly a market for longer travel AM builds that can take a beating but remain friendly overall. This lets you have your stunt pill and lets you ride all day long. If the RFX can hit a reasonably competitive price range with the same Turner quality it'll be a hit.

    I still have my '01 RFX and it runs in the 32lbs range, what I like is that I can ride it anywhere AND hit the stunts/drops on the trail with no worries at all. The Spot always seems (imo) a touch light in this area, not that it can't do the rougher stuff, but you might pay a price for it down the road.

    If I'm going to shell out over $2k for a frame (again), it better be as long lasting as my '01 has been since I'm looking for the same quality & longevity but with a more modern approach to suspension design.

    I was planning on retiring my '01 after ten seasons to replace it with a new RFX ... guess I'll keep on my '01 for a while longer...

  31. #31
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    I'm liking where you're going with this DT, a slacker Spot with 160 and low BB. Seems like this could happen in a reasonable amount of time. Price it similar to the current Spot to keep the cheap bastards happy. A 1.5 HT would not increase costs but give folks more options although probably not needed, personally I'd prefer 1.25 but i digress. I think a bike like this could do enough volume along with the rest of the line that you could build the RFX/HL down the road as a vanity bike for the 13 guys who want it. Honestly if I could choose between a Big Spot and the RFX proto I'd go big Spot. I get what everybody is saying that there's bikes like this but they're not Turners; quality, handling and great CS, otherwise this wouldn't be one of the busiest boards on MTBR. It's crazy for a tiny boutique brand to have such a rabid following, there's a reason, it's Turner bikes.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes
    ... or a slacker slightly longer travel RFX/5Spot? If the old RFX was so popular than maybe the that is all that is needed, but pedaling better, and slacker and lower as the current style dictates. yes yes, ISCG and 142x12 for more gnarcore, but not too GNARCORE as that will just make it appealing to the very few in the world.
    DT
    +1 to that DT: slacker, lower spot with a tad bit more travel would be great
    "The best you've ridden is the best you know" - Paul Thede, Race Tech

  33. #33
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    WHAT is the WHeel-Base on the proto????

    who cares what i think, ha haha
    Jesus Saves




  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by SCUBAPRO
    +1 to that DT: slacker, lower spot with a tad bit more travel would be great

    1.5ht and make the ht shorter? the spitfire looks awesome. a spot with similar geometry would be kick a$$

  35. #35
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    RFX/Highline - but at a lower price point, i.e. build it overseas.

    Slopestyle Spot ??? Interesting thought. It could work, but not at a $2900 price point (IMO).
    Beware the lollipop of mediocrity...lick it once and you will suck forever.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by dhshuttlemonkey
    Add a 1.5 HT and you have a winner!


    Build the proto RFX with a 1.5 HT, 65 - 66 adjustable HA, 150 rear, 6.5 - 7 inches of rear coil travel and you'd have a Fontana killer!!
    I personally see no need for the full 1.5, as every fork that I would run on the bike is available in a tapered steerer and I prefer a 1 1/8 stem to a 1.5 stem.
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  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Tiles
    who is riding the proto? That's what I'm really wondering about....
    I was for a couple months, should be back out west soon!
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  38. #38
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    Another vote for the slacker 6 spot, 160 mm travel with 66.5° with Fox 36, BB around 13.8-14". Reasonable wheelbase on XL models, max 46".

  39. #39
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    MEGA bike?

    For me, the RFX needs to sit in the Nomad market segment, so I think a slack spot would be the way to go. If I had to define a breif for it, it would be a bike to race the Mega Avalanche and other enduro Downhills on (they're big in Europe):

    Slack enought to handle the gnarly steep and fast downhills with the big bikes
    Light enough and with efficient pedelling to climb the sharp uphills so that the xc boys don't leave you for dust.

    If it could do that, it would be ideal to handle UK trail centes (particularly in Wales and Scotland), and for taking to the French Alps or Whistler for a week in the summer.

    So yeah, 1.5 up front 142 or maxle out back, 160 ish travel, slack and LIGHT! (2 pounds lighter than my MK1 Slopestyle that I'd like it to replace).

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by dhshuttlemonkey
    Add a 1.5 HT and you have a winner!


    Build the proto RFX with a 1.5 HT, 65 - 66 adjustable HA, 150 rear, 6.5 - 7 inches of rear coil travel and you'd have a Fontana killer!!

    WHAT HE SAID!!!!!!!

  41. #41
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    No need for 1.5 on the slacker longspot but maybe 44 to accommodate tapered forks as this is what I would run. For real who would need to run a 1'5 on this bike? Also try to keep production in the USA, going oversees is a slippery slope, especially when you're talking about the best bikes in the world.

    By the way, I still like the idea of calling it a 6pack.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by ORVH
    on this one - I have seriously been looking at the Banshee Spitfire - looks to be a great bike for multiple uses, and the head Banshee dude is as responsive on MTBR as DT, which I find unusual. My only beef with the spitfire is that the head dude has said it is primarily designed for an air shock and I prefer coil, even for shorter travel bikes. Look at their website and forum, some pretty cool bikes! Maybe/hopefully this kinda frame is what DT is alluding to in other posts - in between a flux and a spot with some slack geo.

    Those head dudes would be Keith (bullitoride) and Jay (terrafirma) at Banshee. Great dudes
    As for coil on the spitfire....get a custom tuned Elka and you will be fine.
    I have considered a new spity with an elka to replace my pyre.

    As for RFX proto whatever....I'm with El C. Tweener from rfx and highline is what is needed here. The spot is a killer bike for XC and AM rides. Folks that are looking for slacker and lower are moving out of the Turner range. This lower slacker theme is more along the lines of 4x or slightly bigger 4x bikes. I can see how it would be hard for DT to sell something like this as there probably are not a ton of people that would buy that over a normal spot.
    As for the tweener I love this idea...however at a price point like 1450 for the reign X, this is always gonna be hard to beat. Specially when you start looking at who is purchasing frames like this.

    DT, I love and have huge amounts of respect for you and your bikes. I would love to see a bike like this but in my humble opinion it is gonna break your bank to build this frame up and try to sell it for $2400. This just sounds like a losing proposition from the get go

    Hopefully I am wrong

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by _dw
    I personally see no need for the full 1.5, as every fork that I would run on the bike is available in a tapered steerer and I prefer a 1 1/8 stem to a 1.5 stem.

    the 1.5 isn't to run a 1.5 steerer but to give an option to adjust the geometry. works cups come in 1 degree and 1.5 degree and k9 come in 1 or 2 degree options. the stock spot or rfx wouldn't have to have extreme geometry changes. go middle of the road and the end user can adjust one way or the other at their option. my rune is 1.5 but i purchased it because i can run works cups and slacken it out and lower the bb a bit. it's about options, not just to run a 1.5 steerer. there's little options in stems at 1.5 anyways. but with the 1.5 headtube you can run any steerer you want, 1 1/8, tapered or 1.5.

    http://www.workscomponents.bigcartel...e-reducer-cups
    http://www.k9industries.com/K9/Reducer.html

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by qbert2000
    the 1.5 isn't to run a 1.5 steerer but to give an option to adjust the geometry. works cups come in 1 degree and 1.5 degree and k9 come in 1 or 2 degree options. the stock spot or rfx wouldn't have to have extreme geometry changes. go middle of the road and the end user can adjust one way or the other at their option. my rune is 1.5 but i purchased it because i can run works cups and slacken it out and lower the bb a bit. it's about options, not just to run a 1.5 steerer. there's little options in stems at 1.5 anyways. but with the 1.5 headtube you can run any steerer you want, 1 1/8, tapered or 1.5.

    http://www.workscomponents.bigcartel...e-reducer-cups
    http://www.k9industries.com/K9/Reducer.html
    Ah, now I get it.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by _dw
    I was for a couple months, should be back out west soon!
    DT said you were digging the RFX proto. Care to comment on or give a review of it? I'd love to hear your thoughts, Dave.

  46. #46
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    Another vote for the RFX/Highline bike. I have both a Highline and an RFX, if I had a bike that split the difference I would be in heaven.

    It sounds like there is a large group that would like a lower/slacker 5Spot. That would be a cool bike, but it sounds like what the next generation 5Spot should be, not the RFX. There is so much space between the 5Spot and the DHR it doesn't really make sense to make a bike so close to the the 5 and still have this giant gap to the DHR.

    Several people on here have mentioned the market size for a Highline/RFX type bike is small, but I think that is looking at the market place from a static point of view. Mt biking is a relatively young sport, and aggressive, freeride trails are even younger. Maybe many the people that can afford Turners now don't want a freeride bike, but in the next few years kids that grew up on freeride trails and jump parks are going to be coming out of dental school, law school and business school and have the disposable income to spend on a high end freeride bike. Just my $.02

  47. #47
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    DT won't have to make drastic changes to the current 5 Spot. Adding ISCG tabs, reducing the HA from 68.6 to 68 and dropping the BB height to 13.5 would still make an excellent trail bike. By adding a 1.5 head tube to this setup it gives those that want a slacker HA the option to do so. Plus you can run any fork you want; tapered, 1 1/8, or 1.5. Win win for everybody!!! If this option was available I would retire my 06 spot and buy one today.

    Add the gnarcore RFX to fill in the gap and you have a sweet lineup.
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  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by dhshuttlemonkey
    DT won't have to make drastic changes to the current 5 Spot. Adding ISCG tabs, reducing the HA from 68.6 to 68 and dropping the BB height to 13.5 would still make an excellent trail bike. By adding a 1.5 head tube to this setup it gives those that want a slacker HA the option to do so. Plus you can run any fork you want; tapered, 1 1/8, or 1.5. Win win for everybody!!! If this option was available I would retire my 06 spot and buy one today.

    Add the gnarcore RFX to fill in the gap and you have a sweet lineup.

    that's it pretty much in a nutshell. plus make the 1.5 ht shorter than the overly long ht on the spot now.

  49. #49
    mtbr member
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    Mar 2005
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    Sadly I would have little use for the bigger RFX...on my local trails...so my vote would be for 6 spot with a little slacker head tube...

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