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  1. #1
    Nicole? Papa?
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    Comparing a DW-link to Giant's Maestro system

    From reading a few mags and forums, I've saw some people say that the DW-link suspension system on the new Flux and Spot has some of the same performance characteristics of the Maestro system used on the Anthem and Trance, for example. Specifically around the issue of active braking and reduced pedal bob.

    Alongside the DW-link, it also seems that Giant's Maestro system is regarded as one of the very best out there.

    Anyone care to share their experiences?

    NOTE - Before I outrage any Homers, I'm not trying to compare the craftsmanship of a Turner to a Giant, so chillax!

  2. #2
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    I don't know if you're going to get a lot of people against the Maestro, but it really does ride surprisingly well.

  3. #3
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    The way you worded it sounds somewhat backwards. The DW-link was the original and has evolved further in its mechanics than the Maestro. Giant likes to try to push the patent envelope and hopes they can get away with it. They've done it numerous times in the past and lost and/or yielded against bigger competitors (Specialized). DW doesn't have the same resources as Specialized though.

  4. #4
    Nicole? Papa?
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    Syadasti, not sure why you think I've worded it backwards? I didn't reference what came first - I also don't want to get into that debate (I've read numerous threads on alleged Maestro patent infringments, particularly relating to the DWL).

    Further to my original post, all I'm looking for are people's experiences on the Maestro system related to the Turner DW-link (wether they're ridden a DWL, or simply read about it as I have).

    Hope that's clearer.
    Last edited by GeeTee; 02-02-2009 at 09:32 AM.

  5. #5
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    if I'm not mistaken - Acadian rode dwl for a few years and is now riding Maestro bikes. He might be able to give you an honest opinion?

  6. #6
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    Krispy got a Reign X in the Fall. Not sure if he's actually been able to use it much since then as he's in SLC and likely boarding/skiing most of the winter.

    You could drop him a line to see what he thinks (although I don't know how much time he's got on the DWL).....his initial review of the Reign X was very favorable.

    EB

  7. #7
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    Directly comparing the 2008 Trance X2 with the 2009 DWL Spot with the factory shock settings and the correct pressure for me the DW Link was noticeably better.

    Braking I could feel no difference at all when set up with Hope Mini’s on the Spot and Hayes Stroker’s on the TX. The only bike your going to notice is any better when braking to DWL and Maestro is Trek’s ABP, it seems to have a lot more traction and requires much more braking power before it locks, it feels a lot more like a front brake with very little effect on the suspension, if any.

    Actual efficiency I couldn’t really tell the difference, the DWL may have felt a little more controlled under pedalling but the TX is quite a bit faster and because of the riding position and geometry climbs a lot better so it’s hard to judge.

    I only really noticed the difference when comparing the actual bump response. The DWL feels very distant and you hardly notice it working. Maestro has a noticeable ramp up by comparison, it also tends to be much easier to overwhelm with repeated bumps and eventually the Maestro suspension starts overreacting and feeling harsh.

    I own the Trance X2 and the suspension is great but both Maestro and Jon Whyte’s Quad Link design suffer from what I described in the last paragraph. I’d like to experiment with the factory shock settings for Maestro but otherwise the DW Link is better.

  8. #8
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    I work in a store that sells giants and turners. I have had numerous giants, from anthems to reigns. This year i had a anthem X and trance X for 6 months both being riden for 6 days a week. I liked the giants, they pedal well and the traction and ride going down is very good, the main reason i brought a turner was my dislike of giants flex. i felt they were a very flexy bike. I am only 70kg but still found both climbing and descending it would flex over rocks and twist when pushed hard around corners.
    After riding an 07 spot i was amazed how stable it was. Nothing compared, ever since i have wanted one. When the DW spot came out i knew it had to be mine and i have never looked back! It is so stiff when climbing over rocks and roots even on super steep climbs i can get out of the seat and attack. Most impressive for me is that i find it is so stiff when jumping, because of its stable ride, it flies so well and is stable everywhere.

    In the end, No Comparrison, Turner hands down!
    Better Everywhere

  9. #9
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    The Giants I have ridden need a fair amount of "propedal" to pedal well, so this alone is a compromise that the DW bikes do not have.

    Also all of the Giant bikes I have ridden feel like they blow though their travel and then bottom out easily. Not something I prefer.

    However, I have only ridden a couple of 5.5" Reigns and a couple of 6.5" Reign X...

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by robbieracer
    The Giants I have ridden need a fair amount of "propedal" to pedal well, so this alone is a compromise that the DW bikes do not have.

    Also all of the Giant bikes I have ridden feel like they blow though their travel and then bottom out easily. Not something I prefer.

    However, I have only ridden a couple of 5.5" Reigns and a couple of 6.5" Reign X...
    Bollocks, bollocks and more bollocks. Show me these 5.5" Reigns and 6.5" RX of which you speak

    Having owned both designs, as opposed to having mis-read a catalog; I think they're pretty similar. Comparing a shorter travel DW with a longer travel Maestro, the Maestro has a tiny bit more pedal feedback in granny and is a little less active climbing, but just as efficient and still has that nice bottomless feel.

  11. #11
    Daniel the Dog
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    The Turner

    Because it cost a lot more and therefore must be better. Just ask Dave Turner

    Jaybo

  12. #12
    Commit or eat sh!t
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    Check out RideMonkey where DW talks about DW-link and Maestro (and potential patent violations). I don't know if you saw the prototype Giant DH bike, but it looks like a copy of the Sunday bike IMO (see picture below). I was at a Giant dealer a couple of months ago (not naming names), and the sales guy told me that Giant Glory is a great bike because its suspension is "just like the DW-Link created by David Weagle"





    Last edited by Cable0guy; 02-05-2009 at 10:19 AM.

  13. #13
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    If you think the Trance X is flexy you need to ride more bikes, try starting with the main competition, the Fuel EX and Stumpjumper are both considerably more flexy in the rear end and the Trance X’s head tube is about as stiff as you can get on a trail bike.

    I don’t know what Reign and Reign X you guys have been riding because they don’t need any ProPedal when set up properly. Again, there are thousands of bikes that do need it so go try them. The newer Giant Maestro bikes are very hard to bottom out, they have a strong ramp up towards the end of the suspension travel.

    I don’t get how anyone can say the 2010 Glory looks anything like the Sunday, firstly they don’t look the same and secondly it is just the old Glory with the updated tubing and frame layout that Giant is rolling out on all of their Maestro bikes. That’s like saying the MKIII looks like the Trance X, it doesn’t look the same and doesn’t ride anything like it, they just share a similar suspension designs like BMC and a couple of others.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haggis
    Bollocks, bollocks and more bollocks. Show me these 5.5" Reigns and 6.5" RX of which you speak

    Having owned both designs, as opposed to having mis-read a catalog; I think they're pretty similar. Comparing a shorter travel DW with a longer travel Maestro, the Maestro has a tiny bit more pedal feedback in granny and is a little less active climbing, but just as efficient and still has that nice bottomless feel.
    I have never read a Giant catalogue, so your comment has no meaning.

    The bikes I rode (two of each type) all showed the same characteristics.. which is needing propedal or low speed compression damping. Every DW bike I have ridden in the same circumstances needed none.

    I also felt on all of the Giants that they seemd relatively soft in their mid range with a sudden bottom out. And this is just riding along fairly rough XC trails at sensible speeds.

    So my experience points to the Giant linkage implementation being close to, but not as good as the DW stuff. The difference between very good and excellent.

  15. #15
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    So has DW had any success with the Maestro infringement thing?

  16. #16
    _dw
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    So has DW had any success with the Maestro infringement thing?
    Discussions with Giant and BMC are ongoing. Unfortunately.
    dw★link
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  17. #17
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    BMC is yet another one. Don't know how they pulled that one off.

    Best of luck.

  18. #18
    Founder: Dirty3hirties
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    Quote Originally Posted by _dw
    Discussions with Giant and BMC are ongoing. Unfortunately.
    Best of luck....it's like David vs. Goliath.....but David won!

    Although I do believe that anyone has the right to protect their intellectual property against infringement and should be enforced by the law, the Reign X is a really, REALLY tempting ride. Hmmmmm......I might just have to throw my previous statement out the door.

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