Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 30
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    1,123

    climbing on a Burner

    My usual ride includes a series of long, grinding steeps, the kind that make me miss my light hardtail. I find that I still have trouble sticking the front wheel. I moved my seat foward which helped alot. I am wondering if the stem could be the culprit. I always thought that long stems are better for climbing and short is better for descending and technical. I use a long 120mm which feels stretched but ok. I have a 110mm that I am going to try. Although this stem might not track as straight, it may allow me to get my upper body further over the bars thus sticking the front wheel better on super steeps. Does this make any sense?

  2. #2
    mtbr platinum member
    Reputation: bikerx40's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,419
    Quote Originally Posted by bikenut316
    My usual ride includes a series of long, grinding steeps, the kind that make me miss my light hardtail. I find that I still have trouble sticking the front wheel. I moved my seat foward which helped alot. I am wondering if the stem could be the culprit. I always thought that long stems are better for climbing and short is better for descending and technical. I use a long 120mm which feels stretched but ok. I have a 110mm that I am going to try. Although this stem might not track as straight, it may allow me to get my upper body further over the bars thus sticking the front wheel better on super steeps. Does this make any sense?
    I would take a look at a few things:
    1) Bike fit- How tall are you and what size frame are you on?
    2) Fork length- If you're running a Marzocchi 100mm or any other fork over 100mm, then the fork length is longer than intended and may affect your climbing.
    3) As you mentioned, stem length can be a factor too. I started out on a 120mm stem and have since dropped to 100mm. The difference in length is a trade off, as 100mm lends more descending confidence and the longer stem brings your weight over the front wheel more.
    4) Spacers under your stem- Too many spacers under your stem will raise your bar height and hurt your ability to weight the front wheel. I like my bars about 1-2" below my seat height depending on local terrain.
    5) Technique- Sliding your butt onto the nose of your saddle so the seat tip is wedged in your taint, will give you better weight balance for climbing the steeps.
    I stopped driving my bike into my garage - I'm now protected with Roof Rack Ranger app for my iPhone.

  3. #3
    Now with 3 more inches!
    Reputation: tigerdog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    1,464
    Everything BikerX40 said.

    Also, do you run a setback seatpost? Most Turner riders seem to run straight posts such as the Thomson. Not sure why, but it works for me.

    I run a Marathon S 105 on mine, and it feels great. If it's a really steep climb I can use the ETA of course. Haven't noticed any wheel lift though.

    I'm just under 6'4" and ride an XL with a 130x5 Thomson. I'm planning on switching to a 120 to make it a little better for descending. Hoping it won't mess up the great climbing too much.

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    1,123
    Quote Originally Posted by tigerdog
    Everything BikerX40 said.

    Also, do you run a setback seatpost? Most Turner riders seem to run straight posts such as the Thomson. Not sure why, but it works for me.

    I run a Marathon S 105 on mine, and it feels great. If it's a really steep climb I can use the ETA of course. Haven't noticed any wheel lift though.

    I'm just under 6'4" and ride an XL with a 130x5 Thomson. I'm planning on switching to a 120 to make it a little better for descending. Hoping it won't mess up the great climbing too much.
    I am 5'9" and ride a med. I switched to a Thomson straight from a setback. Bars are 1.4" below saddle. The question is: although long stem for climbing, short for descending, what about too long? Could it prevent me from getting my upper body far enough over the front to apply downward force?

  5. #5
    Now with 3 more inches!
    Reputation: tigerdog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    1,464
    A 120mm sounds pretty long for a medium frame.

    Your setup sounds like it would be great for climbing and less good for descending. Having a long stem and bars lower than your saddle it would seem that descending might be more of a problem.

    I'd suggest focussing on BikerX40's technique suggestions. Also, what fork are you running?

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    1,123
    Quote Originally Posted by tigerdog
    A 120mm sounds pretty long for a medium frame.

    Your setup sounds like it would be great for climbing and less good for descending. Having a long stem and bars lower than your saddle it would seem that descending might be more of a problem.

    I'd suggest focussing on BikerX40's technique suggestions. Also, what fork are you running?
    My fork is a Fox 100x. The positive is, very little movement while climbing. The negative is it remains high in it's travel and does not sag all that much while climbing. This holds the front controls high. I may have to lower the stem more.

  7. #7
    banned
    Reputation: Jerk_Chicken's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    16,480
    Take a look at this thread.

  8. #8
    Natl. Champ DH Poser/Hack
    Reputation: cactuscorn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    12,971
    theres a old trick. try suckin the bars up into yer chest as you climb, gettin yer weight way out over the f axle. takes some gettin used to but it works quite fine. yer set up sounds pretty solid and a shorter stem will do anything but fix yer issue. good luck pal.
    No, I'm NOT back!

  9. #9
    Burning Burner
    Reputation: skritikos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    91
    Quote Originally Posted by tigerdog
    ....I run a Marathon S 105 on mine, and it feels great. If it's a really steep climb I can use the ETA of course. Haven't noticed any wheel lift though.

    I'm just under 6'4" and ride an XL with a 130x5 Thomson. I'm planning on switching to a 120 to make it a little better for descending. Hoping it won't mess up the great climbing too much.
    Huge difference in our setups! I am 6'6" (and a bit more), ride an XL and use a 100x5 Thomson X2 stem. I also use a no-setback Thomson seatpost. Will try to lower the stem 1-1,5cm to see if I gain something. How do you find the 130mm stem on descending?

  10. #10
    ...
    Reputation: CDtofer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    1,324
    Dont want to touch on the obvious but like Cactus I would suggest a couple things before switching anything. Since you said sliding the saddle forward helped a lot it got me to think - where are you on your saddle for these steep climbs? Since you mentioned your old hardtail I was just thinking its worth mentioning that you have much better traction on a dually - thus you can put more of your weight forward on a climb without worrying about the rear wheel coming loose. Of course the down side of that is if you are too far back on the seat, the suspension will compress and you mentioned your F100x stays near the top of its travel which would effectively slacken your head angle and could cause front end to wander/unweight. If your long stem stretches you out too much then that might explain why you cant get enough weight on the front, especially if the rear is settling into its travel.

    Like Cactus mentioned it helps to pull the bars up to your chest (at least think of it like that) but I would add to slide forward a little more than you are used to. I dont have too much time on my Burner yet, but so far I have no problems with the climbs (aside form my lungs or legs protesting) and I am not quite 5'9" and have a med Burner w/ a 105mm stem. My bars are practically even with my saddle. If I ride right on the tip and lean forward I dont think I would have any problems with the front end coming up, it wanders a bit but then thats prolly just cause I suck at holding a straigt line anyways.

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    322
    Quote Originally Posted by bikenut316
    My usual ride includes a series of long, grinding steeps, the kind that make me miss my light hardtail. I find that I still have trouble sticking the front wheel. I moved my seat foward which helped alot. I am wondering if the stem could be the culprit. I always thought that long stems are better for climbing and short is better for descending and technical. I use a long 120mm which feels stretched but ok. I have a 110mm that I am going to try. Although this stem might not track as straight, it may allow me to get my upper body further over the bars thus sticking the front wheel better on super steeps. Does this make any sense?
    You might want to try lowering your stem a little first. Always try free stuff before buying. Since you also have a 110mm then it's easy to experiment with both. Also, sometimes tipping the saddle down in the front can help a little bit, but be carefull with saddle position because your butt is surprisingly sensitive to saddle tilt and will let the rest of your body know it right away if you screw with the saddle too much.

    Play around with these factors and see what you think. In fact take some tools and your 110mm stem with you to a section that you know gives you trouble and go to town doing it over and over with different configurations. The normal factors on fit and climbing are: stem length, saddle position, stem height, saddle height and tilt.

  12. #12
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    1,123
    Quote Originally Posted by jjcarr
    You might want to try lowering your stem a little first. Always try free stuff before buying. Since you also have a 110mm then it's easy to experiment with both. Also, sometimes tipping the saddle down in the front can help a little bit, but be carefull with saddle position because your butt is surprisingly sensitive to saddle tilt and will let the rest of your body know it right away if you screw with the saddle too much.

    Play around with these factors and see what you think. In fact take some tools and your 110mm stem with you to a section that you know gives you trouble and go to town doing it over and over with different configurations. The normal factors on fit and climbing are: stem length, saddle position, stem height, saddle height and tilt.
    Went out today with tools, stem and shock pump. Switched stems from 120 to 110, switched back to 120 in 10 minutes(not good). Experimented with lowereing stem. Settled on bars 1.5" below saddle. Tried different fork and shock PSIs balancing the suspensions pedaling platform. See what hapens on my next group hammerfest.

  13. #13
    memento mori
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    338
    FWIW,I'm 5'11" ride a medium burner w/a 120mm stem,Reba fork.Fits me perfect(almost exactly like my Amp b-3 used to).I climb all sorts of steep,New England terrain no problem,going up or comming down.

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    517

    Technique

    I agree with Cactuscorn et. al. that you likely have a technique issue. In your climbing position, I would pull back on the bars along the angle of your forearms. I complained about the same issue on my first suspension bike and that advice completely fixed the problem.

    You might have your favorite bike fitter take a look at your position on the bike or get someone to take your picture from the side while climing. I'm sure that we have enough 'resident experts' to give both some good and bad advice.

    Cheers,

    Kane

  15. #15
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    1,123
    Quote Originally Posted by DAVID J
    FWIW,I'm 5'11" ride a medium burner w/a 120mm stem,Reba fork.Fits me perfect(almost exactly like my Amp b-3 used to).I climb all sorts of steep,New England terrain no problem,going up or comming down.
    What is your seat to bar hight relationship. As I stated, my bars are 1.5" lower than my seat. Great for climbing yet still able to descend.

  16. #16
    memento mori
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    338
    About the same as yours,1.5" or so.

  17. #17
    \|/Home of the Braves\|/
    Reputation: RedRocker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    1,930
    Quote Originally Posted by skritikos
    Huge difference in our setups! I am 6'6" (and a bit more), ride an XL and use a 100x5 Thomson X2 stem. I also use a no-setback Thomson seatpost. Will try to lower the stem 1-1,5cm to see if I gain something. How do you find the 130mm stem on descending?
    I am 6"2' and rode an XL Burner with a 100mm stem on a Reba U-Turn. I can't imagine climbing on a 130mm fork on a Burner. It is taking me a little to get the hang of it on a 130mm fork on my Spot. I did change the spacers down a little from one ride to the next and it made a huge difference. For steep stuff an adjustable travel fork is a nice thing to have. I'm now on a U-Turn Revelation.
    Big hoopy.
    Turner Sultan / On One Inbred

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    119

    Wink Can't get it up?

    Greetings all. I have an 04 burner, large , rp3, x rockers, front fork F100rl off an 05 Epic. I am 5' 10" and use a straight seat post. When I climb steep , I am out of the saddle, and obviously the front fork is weighted considerably thus dropping the front . I find this bike climbs like a trained goat going for gold in a goat climbing competition! I am happy with it's climbing ability. ( my Epic was supposed to "climb like a goat", I would like to see the goat "they" compared it to, a goat that walks on it's back legs maybe?? a wanderer in comparison, although flip/flopping the 6 deg stem helped alot) I started off with a 110mm 6 degree stem on the burner ( 1" riser bars) and found myself going off the trail a lot, real slow steering, changed to a 90mm 6 degree, HUGE difference, perfect steering, AND climbs great. I ditched the Epic coz I sussed the "locked out" brain made it ride high in the back( along with racy HT angle) made it nervous in the front. My guess is that your " locked out" 100x is a likely contributor to your prob. I have not tried one so I don't know for sure. Yes, try all the free things first, then borrow/buy another fork, if nothing else works. Good luck.

  19. #19
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    1,123
    Quote Originally Posted by rockinrod35
    Greetings all. I have an 04 burner, large , rp3, x rockers, front fork F100rl off an 05 Epic. I am 5' 10" and use a straight seat post. When I climb steep , I am out of the saddle, and obviously the front fork is weighted considerably thus dropping the front . I find this bike climbs like a trained goat going for gold in a goat climbing competition! I am happy with it's climbing ability. ( my Epic was supposed to "climb like a goat", I would like to see the goat "they" compared it to, a goat that walks on it's back legs maybe?? a wanderer in comparison, although flip/flopping the 6 deg stem helped alot) I started off with a 110mm 6 degree stem on the burner ( 1" riser bars) and found myself going off the trail a lot, real slow steering, changed to a 90mm 6 degree, HUGE difference, perfect steering, AND climbs great. I ditched the Epic coz I sussed the "locked out" brain made it ride high in the back( along with racy HT angle) made it nervous in the front. My guess is that your " locked out" 100x is a likely contributor to your prob. I have not tried one so I don't know for sure. Yes, try all the free things first, then borrow/buy another fork, if nothing else works. Good luck.
    I am still experimenting with different stems. 120 felt better than 110 for climbing until I lowered bars 1.5" below saddle, resulting in the bars feeling to far foward. I rotated the riser bars slightly rearward improving the distant feeling condition. This all leads me to want to try the 110 again in the 1.5"-2" bars below saddle with the bars rotated back to level position. I hope I didn't need a large frame, I am 5'9" and never tried a large.

  20. #20
    Be happy......go riding
    Reputation: Trailmix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    136
    At 5' 9" I think the medium should be right for you. My impression is,it's at 5' 10" - 5' 11" that your reaching or in the "large" threshold. I'm 5' 9" and my med. Burner is just right for me.
    Last edited by Trailmix; 03-15-2006 at 07:07 AM.

  21. #21
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Paco Finn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    324
    Quote Originally Posted by Trailmix
    At 5' 9" I think the medium should be right for you. My impression is,it's at 5' 10" - 5' 11" that your reaching or in the "large" threshold. I'm 5' 9" and my med. Burner is just right for me.

    At that size a large will climb better...that is, it will have a larger "sweet spot" but will not be quite as nimble in the tight stuff as the medium. I do ride a med. at 5' 9" but must use a setback post for epic rides (60-100 miles) or knee pain will occur but straight is better pos. for climbs. I also rec. bar ends (no flames - they work) to allow you to move around more (hear Ergons work well)

    Nate
    Paco the "Flyin' Finn"

  22. #22
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    1,123
    Quote Originally Posted by Paco Finn
    At that size a large will climb better...that is, it will have a larger "sweet spot" but will not be quite as nimble in the tight stuff as the medium. I do ride a med. at 5' 9" but must use a setback post for epic rides (60-100 miles) or knee pain will occur but straight is better pos. for climbs. I also rec. bar ends (no flames - they work) to allow you to move around more (hear Ergons work well)

    Nate
    I just switched from setback to straight post. It did help climbing but my knee is atleast
    2" foward of the pedal axle at 3 o'clock. I tried to use a 110 stem from a 120. The front felt too light on climbs, however after lowering my bars 1.5" below saddle hight, the 120 now seems alittle long. I am going to try the 110 again with the above bar/seat relationship. May even allow me to return to the setback post and center my knee/pedal relationship. I must have abnormal proportions.

  23. #23
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Paco Finn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    324
    Quote Originally Posted by bikenut316
    I just switched from setback to straight post. It did help climbing but my knee is atleast
    2" foward of the pedal axle at 3 o'clock. I tried to use a 110 stem from a 120. The front felt too light on climbs, however after lowering my bars 1.5" below saddle hight, the 120 now seems alittle long. I am going to try the 110 again with the above bar/seat relationship. May even allow me to return to the setback post and center my knee/pedal relationship. I must have abnormal proportions.

    Sounds like a large frame is what you need. If I had to do over again I would have gone with the large for myself but $$ is always an issue.

    Nate
    Paco the "Flyin' Finn"

  24. #24
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    1,123
    Quote Originally Posted by Paco Finn
    Sounds like a large frame is what you need. If I had to do over again I would have gone with the large for myself but $$ is always an issue.

    Nate
    Sad but true. I rode it again today. Made every adjustment possible, setback and straight seatpost, 110 and 120 stem. Each had it's pros and cons but the bottom line is, this bike is too small for me. I had similar problems with a Klein palamino and attitude hardtale. I just didn't think it possible that at 5'9" tall I would need a large.
    Oh well, Live and learn.

  25. #25
    Anytime. Anywhere.
    Reputation: Travis Bickle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,946

    5'10" here

    I'm 5'10" on a medium 5 Spot with a straight post and 90mm (sometimes 100mm) stem and can't imagine a bike that climbs better.

    This is of course steeper than it looks.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    I got some bad ideas in my head.

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •