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  1. #1
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    Carbon flux build thread

    Happy holidays everyone. I took delivery of a new Medium Flux this week. The frame finish quality and the rocker details are very impressive. I look forward to riding it once this big SoCal rain storm passes through.
    Here is my build:
    Wheels: Nox Teocalli w/ DT Swiss 350 Straight Pull 1438g
    Fork: 2017 Fox Factory 32 with 120mm travel 1728g
    Cranks: Race Face Next SL G4 w/ 24x36
    Brakes: Hope Evo X2 250g front 252g rear
    Drivetrain: Sram GX 2x11 w/ Twist Shifters and XO 10-42 Cassette
    Tires: Schwalbe Nobby Nic 2.35 front 698g and 2.25 rear 728g
    Bars: Thomson Carbon Flat cut to 680mm 192g
    Stem: Thomson Elite 70mm 0 degree 154g
    Pedals: XTR 970
    Seat Post: Easton EC90 Carbon 27.2 w/sleeve (soon to be replaced with Thomson's new carbon post when it comes out)
    Saddle: Fizik Aliante Gamma XM 255g

    More to come as I finish the build and get it on the scale!

    LET'S SEE YOUR BUILD!!!
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Last edited by TTTURNER; 12-22-2016 at 01:57 PM.

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    Black!!??

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    Quote Originally Posted by JC822 View Post
    Black!!??
    DT told me that a white one was on the way. Black showed up, which is great because I wanted black anyway. My local shop owner said that he thought that there might be some white ones in larger sizes. I would give DT a call to see what he has if you are interested. It is a really nice looking frame.

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    HUGE range on that drivetrain! Good looking rig


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rideon View Post
    HUGE range on that drivetrain! Good looking rig


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    You need the range here in the Coachella Valley. I was torn between 1x and 2x because I don't want extra weight, but I spend so much time climbing and going back down steep grades that I have been forced to be proficient with the front derailleur. The new Shimano XT FD-M8020-D shifts better than any front derailleur that has ever been built according to my local shop. They don't make an XTR in the same configuration, or else I would have gone XTR.
    I'm sure that the hardcore 1x fans will like my build even less when I pull away on the steep smooth descents. DT told me to buy a couple of extra 2x derailleurs because everyone thinks that 2x is dead and buried. He might not build any more 2x capable bikes. This hastened my bike decision.

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    Thanks, I am not shopping for one, I am happy with my alloy Flux v3 and spent all my bike money on a RFX a couple of months ago, but I just thought that they were all coming in white.... More pics, when you have a chance!

  7. #7
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    And the frame weight is….

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    Quote Originally Posted by doccoraje View Post
    And the frame weight is….
    I didn't get a chance to weigh it because my LBS put in the Wheels Mfg. bottom bracket and Cane Creek headset before I picked it up. I don't have the tools used to install those two pieces. I bet that Turner's listed weight is very close. It has been for the aluminum frames.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JC822 View Post
    Thanks, I am not shopping for one, I am happy with my alloy Flux v3 and spent all my bike money on a RFX a couple of months ago, but I just thought that they were all coming in white.... More pics, when you have a chance!
    I was ready to buy a Flux v3, but they were gone by the time that I was ready to order. I was also told that white was the only carbon frame color this year, but I needed a frame badly and I was okay with the white. The white looks pure. It is just harder to keep clean. I have waited patiently for the carbon Flux and the black was a pleasant surprise (thanks DT). My I-phone camera sucks, but I'll try to get more pictures when I get time.

  10. #10
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    Sweet looking bike. I have a V3 alloy in ano blue. Built it from the frame up. Love it. I'm sure you will love the new bike. Enjoy.
    LOVE THE RIDE!

  11. #11
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    TTURNER,
    can you give some ride impressions after you get a few rides in. Not sure if you have ridden the Burner but I am curious how these two compare.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SMR View Post
    TTURNER,
    can you give some ride impressions after you get a few rides in. Not sure if you have ridden the Burner but I am curious how these two compare.
    me too! Thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by SMR View Post
    TTURNER,
    can you give some ride impressions after you get a few rides in. Not sure if you have ridden the Burner but I am curious how these two compare.
    I have to replace/lengthen the rear brake hose today because it takes a longer route than my previous bike. My 26" Flux ran along the top tube, while this bike runs it down the downtube. I should have a few rides in by the end of the week and I will report back.

  14. #14
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    They told me black would be an option in December along with XL........

  15. #15
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    Waiting on wheels to finish my build.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Carbon flux build thread-fluxer1.jpg  


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    Quote Originally Posted by 1soulrider View Post
    Waiting on wheels to finish my build.
    Great looking Flux. Please make sure to post photos once the wheels arrive and the build is complete.
    Guess what? I got a fever, and the only prescription is more Singlespeed!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1soulrider View Post
    Waiting on wheels to finish my build.
    I thought that I would be waiting on my wheels also. Fortunately, Dave's Speed Dream is really fast.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jcave216 View Post
    Great looking Flux. Please make sure to post photos once the wheels arrive and the build is complete.
    For sure. Also will post about how it compares to Burner and RFX. Can't wait to get some miles on it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TTTURNER View Post
    I thought that I would be waiting on my wheels also. Fortunately, Dave's Speed Dream is really fast.
    Have been a Dave's customer for many years; awesome wheels.


    -Raynman59

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    Quote Originally Posted by SMR View Post
    TTURNER,
    can you give some ride impressions after you get a few rides in. Not sure if you have ridden the Burner but I am curious how these two compare.
    The new Flux is closer in ride and handling to the Flux v3.0 than it is to the Burner. It is faster handling than the Burner was and also has a faster climbing feel. To me, the RFX is closer to the Burner in ride and handling feel. My Flux ride review is at: https://www.dirtmerchantbikes.com/sp...mm-rear-travel
    Dirt Merchant Bikes
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    A little better picture.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Carbon flux build thread-dsc01824.jpg  


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    And one more.
    Carbon flux build thread-dsc01826.jpg

  23. #23
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    And one last one.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Carbon flux build thread-dsc01825.jpg  


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    Sorry about the consecutive posts for pictures, but it wouldn't let me put more than one on a post.

    As far as the ride goes, it is just as the Turner site describes the bike. It is flickable fun. It is light and stiff. It climbs great, like any DW link bike. It descends smoothly and precisely.
    The only other carbon Turner that I have ridden is the Czar. I'm only 5'7 and the 29" wheel size rolls well on my jagged/chunky rock trails, but it is a little big for a small guy like me to get around the steep switchbacks that I like to ride. I'm glad that I waited for the 27.5 size.
    I rode the new Flux with a 130mm travel Fox 34 Factory fork and I felt like I could launch it off a roof. The 120mm travel Fox 32 (non-step cast) Factory fork is better for my steep climbing. This bike is really capable at both ends of the spectrum. Fork it as you see fit.
    My last bike was a light-tubed prototype TNT Flux with an ultralight Nitrous rear end that I had broken once going big. I was under-biked, but my two young male children love to see me ride wheelies down the street and jump thingsThe Nitrous was never designed for that. It's nice to be able to launch this new bike if my old 47 year-old butt gets the inclination. I'm not really that wild. I just like having the peace of mind that my bike can handle it.
    The new Flux really helps smooth out the chunky terrain, but it is light enough to race an occasional cross-country race. I went with a 70mm stem because Turner specs them on their builds and I really liked the demo that I rode with a 70mm stem. You bigger guys might like a longer stem.

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    Wow, that bike is gorgeous in black. I like white too, but would rather go black (and red would be even better...Dave). I'm looking forward to a test ride hopefully this month courtesy of Jeff @ Dirt Merchants in the Seattle area.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wines of WA View Post
    Wow, that bike is gorgeous in black. I like white too, but would rather go black (and red would be even better...Dave). I'm looking forward to a test ride hopefully this month courtesy of Jeff @ Dirt Merchants in the Seattle area.
    Got a large demo Flux coming in a week or two!
    Dirt Merchant Bikes
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spectre View Post
    Got a large demo Flux coming in a week or two!
    Great, looking forward to a test ride, Jeff. Thanks!

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wines of WA View Post
    Wow, that bike is gorgeous in black. I like white too, but would rather go black (and red would be even better...Dave). I'm looking forward to a test ride hopefully this month courtesy of Jeff @ Dirt Merchants in the Seattle area.
    I'm happy with the black. The sangria red and Czar blue are both amazing colors. I wanted to build a 27.5 aluminum Flux with a blue front triangle and red rear triangle. I don't know that we will ever be able to get a custom painted carbon frame through Turner, but it is nice to dream!

  29. #29
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    Drop It!

    Do yourself a huge favor by foregoing the carbon seatpost and investing in a dropper (Thompson or other brand of choice) instead. You'll be amazed at how the bike becomes more centered and alive on the downhills. And it sounds like you have some good ones out there in Coachella. At a year ahead of you in age, I truly was an ardent believer in being able to ride everything at height on my '07 Flux, and when I upgraded to the V3 Flux, I took the push-button leap, with the only regret of not having done it sooner.

    All this SoCal talk reminds me of the time I poached some of the sweet San Jacinto single track during a road trip to the Music Fest in '99!

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    Quote Originally Posted by xprmntl View Post
    Do yourself a huge favor by foregoing the carbon seatpost and investing in a dropper (Thompson or other brand of choice) instead. You'll be amazed at how the bike becomes more centered and alive on the downhills. And it sounds like you have some good ones out there in Coachella. At a year ahead of you in age, I truly was an ardent believer in being able to ride everything at height on my '07 Flux, and when I upgraded to the V3 Flux, I took the push-button leap, with the only regret of not having done it sooner.

    All this SoCal talk reminds me of the time I poached some of the sweet San Jacinto single track during a road trip to the Music Fest in '99!
    I only lower my post about 1/2 inch for the big downhills. I've put so many thousands of miles on my cross country bikes over the last three decades that I feel like I am sitting on the ground when I go down more than a half an inch. There isn't a lot of rolling terrain here. We climb like animals straight up and then go back down. I use the quick-release once I get to the top, and I'm done until I put my bike on the rack. Even though our trails are steep, they don't have many big drops where you need a real low post. I have ridden droppers and I don't use them enough to justify the weight. I would use one if I rode in another area.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by TTTURNER View Post
    I only lower my post about 1/2 inch for the big downhills. I've put so many thousands of miles on my cross country bikes over the last three decades that I feel like I am sitting on the ground when I go down more than a half an inch. There isn't a lot of rolling terrain here. We climb like animals straight up and then go back down. I use the quick-release once I get to the top, and I'm done until I put my bike on the rack. Even though our trails are steep, they don't have many big drops where you need a real low post. I have ridden droppers and I don't use them enough to justify the weight. I would use one if I rode in another area.
    The way I see it, with a dropper or lowering my seatpost, I can unlock 100% of the bike's descending ability. Without, I can unlock maybe about 50%. Why am I lugging around all that extra weight and travel if I can't use it to it's maximum extent. I'll have my BikeYoke dropper arriving for my 100mm travel XC bike in a couple days. I may not use that for short races on said bike, but everywhere else, I do.

    That said, for some of the flatter places in the country, like midwest, Oklahoma, etc., I can see why it wouldn't be necessary. I've ridden in those and basically they suck for mountain biking and you don't need a lot of travel or things like droppers to ride there.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

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    Beautiful ride. Sounds like DT has been dealing with a pandemonium of paint! I'm waiting for a black Czar since November, when everything that was delivered in December came in blue. So the black went to the Flux! Love that color but I'm already good with my blue Burner. Expecting mid January delivery, the anticipation is killing me!

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    Carbon flux build thread-hahn-1-14-17.jpg
    This bike is dialed in and it continues to impress on the up and down. I climbed Dunn Road to the Hahn Buena Vista and out Cindy's Trail. The hero dirt after the storm doesn't hurt the traction.

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    Hi all. Am wrapping my frame in 3m tape at the moment. Noticed that somehow I've got to run the rear brake hose, derailleur cable and dropper cable on top of the down tube, but there is only space for two cables in the black clips. How have others managed this? Zip ties? I think I need a couple of triple cable clips.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wellington View Post
    Hi all. Am wrapping my frame in 3m tape at the moment. Noticed that somehow I've got to run the rear brake hose, derailleur cable and dropper cable on top of the down tube, but there is only space for two cables in the black clips. How have others managed this? Zip ties? I think I need a couple of triple cable clips.
    Mine came with cable clips that can fit two cables on each side of the screw. See photos. If yours didn't, Turner can send you those I bet...

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    Yep, that's what I'm missing. For some reason mine shipped with the clips for two cables, including under the top tube. I'll get in touch with turnerbikes, though it'll probably be quicker to drop into a local shop and see what they've got. Thanks for the quick reply.

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    Oh wait, sorry, mine is a RFX, wrong thread....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wellington View Post
    Hi all. Am wrapping my frame in 3m tape at the moment. Noticed that somehow I've got to run the rear brake hose, derailleur cable and dropper cable on top of the down tube, but there is only space for two cables in the black clips. How have others managed this? Zip ties? I think I need a couple of triple cable clips.
    It's much cleaner when you run the cables on the downtube with triple clips. The cables will rub less when the frame pivots. Look at the Flux pictures on the Turner site. I also suggest not using the clips on the headtube because you will get a lot of rub.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bikethis View Post
    Beautiful ride. Sounds like DT has been dealing with a pandemonium of paint! I'm waiting for a black Czar since November, when everything that was delivered in December came in blue. So the black went to the Flux! Love that color but I'm already good with my blue Burner. Expecting mid January delivery, the anticipation is killing me!
    I was conversing with DT about overseas production when I ordered my bike and it made me really feel bad for him because it causes a lot of extra headaches because of the slower response time. I wouldn't want to deal with it. People love to get on here and complain about the long waits for frames/parts, but I'm sure DT is doing all that he can. Much of it is out of his hands. Turner has been synonymous for great service and product support for over two decades. This doesn't necessarily factor in to the production end in Asia. Add to this the constantly changing bike market/standards and it makes it really important to not procrastinate when you want to make a Turner purchase and the bike is actually in stock.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by TTTURNER View Post
    I was conversing with DT about overseas production when I ordered my bike and it made me really feel bad for him because it causes a lot of extra headaches because of the slower response time. I wouldn't want to deal with it. People love to get on here and complain about the long waits for frames/parts, but I'm sure DT is doing all that he can. Much of it is out of his hands. Turner has been synonymous for great service and product support for over two decades. This doesn't necessarily factor in to the production end in Asia. Add to this the constantly changing bike market/standards and it makes it really important to not procrastinate when you want to make a Turner purchase and the bike is actually in stock.
    I can attest that lead times for bike frames is a constant struggle. The bike industry lags behind many other industries in being able to provide just-in-time manufacturing that the auto industry has been doing since the 70's and 80's (namely Toyota & Honda). The big players (Specialized, Trek, Giant, Cannondale) address this by mandating large orders pre-season for all of their authorized retailers and then addressing the financial investment by providing financing to allow retailers to pay back loans mid-season after (hopefully) selling most of their pre-purchased inventory. IF a retailer fails to pay back their loan, well, at least Specialized now owns you and your shop. Smaller bike manufacturers don't have the financial resources to be able to help retailers finance inventory and that is exactly why you are seeing fewer boutique brands now in brick-and-mortar stores. This is the thin line on which most brick-and-mortar shops are trying to balance.

    The other challenge for Turner Bikes is being able to provide the flexibility for custom build kits and reducing the inventory risk of committing big dollars to component spec that buyers may or may not want. I was just talking to David Turner the other day about the amont of thought that goes into what components to order given the lead times required by SRAM and Shimano. Buying too many components that turn out to be not in demand becomes a major inventory issue to work through. I've developed multiple supplier relationships for Dirt Merchant Bikes to work around the impacts of shortages on the component level to allow for just-in-time sourcing for custom build kits, but manufacturing delays on the frame level is tough to address as that is truly the critical path for setting delivery dates with no possibility for alternative suppliers.
    Dirt Merchant Bikes
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    Seattle area dealer for Turner Bikes & Cleary Bikes

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spectre View Post
    I can attest that lead times for bike frames is a constant struggle. The bike industry lags behind many other industries in being able to provide just-in-time manufacturing that the auto industry has been doing since the 70's and 80's (namely Toyota & Honda). The big players (Specialized, Trek, Giant, Cannondale) address this by mandating large orders pre-season for all of their authorized retailers and then addressing the financial investment by providing financing to allow retailers to pay back loans mid-season after (hopefully) selling most of their pre-purchased inventory. IF a retailer fails to pay back their loan, well, at least Specialized now owns you and your shop. Smaller bike manufacturers don't have the financial resources to be able to help retailers finance inventory and that is exactly why you are seeing fewer boutique brands now in brick-and-mortar stores. This is the thin line on which most brick-and-mortar shops are trying to balance.

    The other challenge for Turner Bikes is being able to provide the flexibility for custom build kits and reducing the inventory risk of committing big dollars to component spec that buyers may or may not want. I was just talking to David Turner the other day about the amont of thought that goes into what components to order given the lead times required by SRAM and Shimano. Buying too many components that turn out to be not in demand becomes a major inventory issue to work through. I've developed multiple supplier relationships for Dirt Merchant Bikes to work around the impacts of shortages on the component level to allow for just-in-time sourcing for custom build kits, but manufacturing delays on the frame level is tough to address as that is truly the critical path for setting delivery dates with no possibility for alternative suppliers.
    Very true.
    My LBS is so tiny and he keeps almost no stock of anything on hand. The core group of experienced local riders know that Velobum must order the parts that they need from somebody like QBP. Most of the Turners that are purchased through Velobum are custom builds.
    Keeping the right amount of parts for builds on hand is one more difficulty that DT has to deal with. He was telling me the same things that you mentioned.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by TTTURNER View Post
    Very true.
    My LBS is so tiny and he keeps almost no stock of anything on hand. The core group of experienced local riders know that Velobum must order the parts that they need from somebody like QBP. Most of the Turners that are purchased through Velobum are custom builds.
    Keeping the right amount of parts for builds on hand is one more difficulty that DT has to deal with. He was telling me the same things that you mentioned.
    Yes, so many things for a brick-and-mortar bike shop to contend with nowadays. You're right in that distributors have adjusted so just about all of them now offer Next Day or at least 2-day shipping so retailers don't have the burden of having to keep everything in stock and having to guess right on what prospective customers might want.

    I've focused our business model on the customer experience end of delivering value with no brick-and-mortar store front, but a fleet of demo bikes and now carbon wheels for demo as well to better compete against online only retailers while being able to match e-commerce pricing.
    Dirt Merchant Bikes
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    Seattle area dealer for Turner Bikes & Cleary Bikes

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    Just-in-time only comes with extremely high volumes and extremely good forecasting that high-end bike manufacturers don't (and will likely never) have. I'd argue the fickleness of the current consumer is what is driving the small, high-end producers to be squeezed out of the market. Just look at the beer industry as a mainstream, fickleness example--the number of IPAs and number of $15+ "one-off" beers is a sign of how consumers just want what's "new" and "grander" and not what's necessarily good--that which has gone through iterations toward refinement and balance, and economy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xprmntl View Post
    Just-in-time only comes with extremely high volumes and extremely good forecasting that high-end bike manufacturers don't (and will likely never) have. I'd argue the fickleness of the current consumer is what is driving the small, high-end producers to be squeezed out of the market. Just look at the beer industry as a mainstream, fickleness example--the number of IPAs and number of $15+ "one-off" beers is a sign of how consumers just want what's "new" and "grander" and not what's necessarily good--that which has gone through iterations toward refinement and balance, and economy.
    Fortunately, those that are true enthusiasts of bikes and beer still have some influence. I won't let "the record company sell me what they want me to hear!"

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by xprmntl View Post
    Just-in-time only comes with extremely high volumes and extremely good forecasting that high-end bike manufacturers don't (and will likely never) have. I'd argue the fickleness of the current consumer is what is driving the small, high-end producers to be squeezed out of the market. Just look at the beer industry as a mainstream, fickleness example--the number of IPAs and number of $15+ "one-off" beers is a sign of how consumers just want what's "new" and "grander" and not what's necessarily good--that which has gone through iterations toward refinement and balance, and economy.
    That's true from the frame manufacturing perspective. From a component perspective, distributors that can serve multiple retailer customers add a lot of value by providing just-in-time access to parts while reducing the inventory risk that any single retailer would face in keeping specific parts on-hand. When I worked for Flex (an electronics contract manufacturer, formerly Flextronics) as they grew from $450 million in revenues to $2 billion in revenues in the mid-90's. That was exactly our setup with distributors co-located on our manufacturing campuses and our taking delivery of components on-demand as needed. On a tangent, the financial advantages of doing just-in-time deliveries might be a driver of a resurgence in US manufacturing especially as manufacturing becomes more automated & if fuel costs go back up in the future.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spectre View Post
    Yes, so many things for a brick-and-mortar bike shop to contend with nowadays. You're right in that distributors have adjusted so just about all of them now offer Next Day or at least 2-day shipping so retailers don't have the burden of having to keep everything in stock and having to guess right on what prospective customers might want.

    I've focused our business model on the customer experience end of delivering value with no brick-and-mortar store front, but a fleet of demo bikes and now carbon wheels for demo as well to better compete against online only retailers while being able to match e-commerce pricing.
    That sounds like a good business plan.
    I have known my local shop owner for a few decades. He has a very small store to keep down costs. I give him the first shot at selling me the parts that I need. I always ask if he can get close to online prices. I buy parts from him when he can. In turn, he offers free/discounted service on the parts, if needed. He is a one-man operation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spectre View Post
    That's true from the frame manufacturing perspective. From a component perspective, distributors that can serve multiple retailer customers add a lot of value by providing just-in-time access to parts while reducing the inventory risk that any single retailer would face in keeping specific parts on-hand. When I worked for Flex (an electronics contract manufacturer, formerly Flextronics) as they grew from $450 million in revenues to $2 billion in revenues in the mid-90's. That was exactly our setup with distributors co-located on our manufacturing campuses and our taking delivery of components on-demand as needed. On a tangent, the financial advantages of doing just-in-time deliveries might be a driver of a resurgence in US manufacturing especially as manufacturing becomes more automated & if fuel costs go back up in the future.
    When you're a large manufacturer you can put JIT and other LEAN demands on a supplier. We have those at our plant but it cost.......somewhere down the supply their needs to be inventory.

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    3d printing will change a lot..

    I look forward to the day when frame building goes from molds and hands to 3d printing and carbon / carbon nanotube / who knows what material.

    The current industry model reflects the current state of technology availability. The next model will have builders print bikes on demand or thereabouts. Lots of focus now on carbon compaction and the best build method - but its still all done by hand. 3d printing will be a huge change for frames and components - cannot wait!

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    Quote Originally Posted by bbdo View Post
    I look forward to the day when frame building goes from molds and hands to 3d printing and carbon / carbon nanotube / who knows what material.

    The current industry model reflects the current state of technology availability. The next model will have builders print bikes on demand or thereabouts. Lots of focus now on carbon compaction and the best build method - but its still all done by hand. 3d printing will be a huge change for frames and components - cannot wait!
    Same here, having that happen will also help bring these jobs back to the US.
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    Printing molds makes sense. Printing bikes, not-so-much. Printing is inherently slow and directional. For a bike frame, there are a lot of directions to get right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bbdo View Post
    I look forward to the day when frame building goes from molds and hands to 3d printing and carbon / carbon nanotube / who knows what material.

    The current industry model reflects the current state of technology availability. The next model will have builders print bikes on demand or thereabouts. Lots of focus now on carbon compaction and the best build method - but its still all done by hand. 3d printing will be a huge change for frames and components - cannot wait!
    That is already happening in high volume manufacturers like Automotive. Hand laying Carbon fiber is a very labor intensive but their are other processes like resin transfer molding (RTM) which is more suitable to high production numbers. If their is a higher enough demand some manufacturers will design processes to meet those numbers. It's all about ROI....return on investment.

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    Perhaps, but 3d printing is kind of the opposite of carbon fiber. Fundamentally different manufacturing processes, where 3D works for things that were previously cast or injection molded, but in structures where carbon fiber mats/layers exist, this will be quite the technological barrier for some time I'd imagine.

    There are processes coming with CFRP that allow for faster, easier and more flexible structures and production, but I think it'll be a while for straight CF.
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    Time uses RTM for their bikes, but it is still a very labor-intensive lay-up process due to the complex shape and stresses on a bicycle frame. In general, RTM composites tend to be a bit heavier due to extra and heavier resin involved with the process / processing. Lugged frames are a bit easier to manufacture with RTM as this allows for just straight tubes, requiring less lay-up labor, which is what was used in the Serrota Ottrot and BMC, with the latter tubing being fully automated. BMC uses injection-molded, composite lugs.

    HED in one manufacturer of RTM wheels.

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    You can make the best bikes in the world spec'd with the latest and greatest components but if you dont know how to sell/market them your sales are going to be minimal.

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    I would conjecture that the rapid turn to carbon put Turner between a rock and a hard place--precipitating a need to liquidate aluminum frame stock which necessarily undercut and angered dealers--catalyzing the need move to direct sales. With a direct sales approach, often one needs to be a price leader, which is tough for a low volume producer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xprmntl View Post
    I would conjecture that the rapid turn to carbon put Turner between a rock and a hard place--precipitating a need to liquidate aluminum frame stock which necessarily undercut and angered dealers--catalyzing the need move to direct sales. With a direct sales approach, often one needs to be a price leader, which is tough for a low volume producer.
    Funny thing is nobody gives a shit about any of that.

    So why should I buy a Turner bike? Sell me.

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    If one desires a very balanced, well thought-out, all-around bike, no matter what the travel or wheel size in the Turner line, they will compete with the best. Turners climb, descend, and rail, and they're competitively light. And most importantly, they stand behind their bikes with arguably the best customer service in the industry. Send them an e-mail or give them a call--Dave Turner is likely to field it himself. If one wants fashion, trendy and bling, look elsewhere

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    Quote Originally Posted by dmar123 View Post
    Funny thing is nobody gives a shit about any of that.

    So why should I buy a Turner bike? Sell me.
    Good question dmar. A scan at the 'old' reviews section of MTBR confirms what xprmnti wrote. See links below.

    Another point is that DT doesn't change models or designs every year, he doesn't need to, the bikes are good enough... unlike some major brands that make significant changes each year (recently e.g. Trek Fuel EX) that impact on e.g. resale value and parts availability.

    Further, Turner bikes don't use proprietary shocks that again cause issues with service & resale (e.g. Trek, Scott, Specialized).

    Even further, Turner bikes used to utilise bushings instead of bearings for the suspension pivots - this ensured durability, longevity and low cost of ownership (compared to poorly executed or specified bearing solutions)....and ensured stiffness and quietness (compared to when bearings start to wear / fail / dry out). I understand that Turner has now moved to bearings, but take comfort that his design and the bearings used will again result in a great ownership experience.

    Also, Turrner bikes have been owned by Turner for 20+ years, unlike other boutique brands like Titus, Santa Cruz, Ellsworth (I know, shouldn't have gone there) that have been sold for the purposes of profit, and have died or may as well be dead or have/will become corportatized, and have service etc suffer.

    27.5 Full Suspension Reviews - Mtbr.com

    XC Full Suspension Reviews - Mtbr.com

    29er Full Suspension Reviews - Mtbr.com

    All Mountain Full Suspension Reviews - Mtbr.com

    XC Full Suspension Reviews - Mtbr.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by dmar123 View Post
    Funny thing is nobody gives a shit about any of that.

    So why should I buy a Turner bike? Sell me.
    Ideally because you rode one and liked it.

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    All good points, and I get that and so do most other homers.

    But lets be honest, Turners marketing sucks hairy goat balls. Sorry but it does. The website and most of their ads are the most stale boring thing in the world.

    What? you got one pic on your website of a rider on a fat bike thats not even in your lineup anymore? How bout posting pics of your team riders racing the RFX on your homepage? or someone doing a sick whip on the RFX? At least make a video edit when you bring out a new model bike and post it up on Pinkbike and your homepage. I mean look at what Transition or YT pages look like...oh but wait those guys are too trendy and full of crap, right? pfff.

    I get that Turner might not be interested in being trendy or have the latest color or fashion but whether or not he realizes it that is cool in itself and can be marketable, the "hey we dong give a crap we just ride good bikes". There are so many angles you could play there.

    Marketing and self promotion doesn't mean you have to be trendy and full of shit. It shows that you care about your brand and product, and if done well can draw a lot of attention. Bikes do not sell themselves.

    I really dont know if Turner as a company is doing well or if he is content with where they are currently. But I can tell you this a strong marketing platform and a little self promotion will only help you sell more bikes and at a fraction of manufacturing costs I mean why wouldnt you do that? your bikes are made the hard part is over, selling/promoting them should be the fun part its the icing on the cake.

    I think its pretty ignorant to not pay attention to what is going within the industry, you are only shooting yourself in the foot. Again this all based on the premise that Dave wants to sell more bikes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1soulrider View Post
    Ideally because you rode one and liked it.

    ^Thats my story but...99% of the industry is more like below scenario.

    "But sir I demoed 5 bikes today and Im still undecided, I mean I really liked them all and the teal color of that other bike is really neat and they are a cool company, and some of my favorite riders ride for them, and all my friends have their bikes and say they are awesome, none of them heard of Turner before... so why should I buy the Turner?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by dmar123 View Post
    All good points, and I get that and so do most other homers.

    But lets be honest, Turners marketing sucks hairy goat balls. Sorry but it does. The website and most of their ads are the most stale boring thing in the world.

    What? you got one pic on your website of a rider on a fat bike thats not even in your lineup anymore? How bout posting pics of your team riders racing the RFX on your homepage? or someone doing a sick whip on the RFX? At least make a video edit when you bring out a new model bike and post it up on Pinkbike and your homepage. I mean look at what Transition or YT pages look like...oh but wait those guys are too trendy and full of crap, right? pfff.
    .
    Agreed, DT needs to be cognizant of the Turner brand's shortcomings in marketing. It would be nice to see this great RFX video in their marketing on the website. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GtACxHhKoQ
    Some okay coverage here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRl-wGYz03g
    Great Pinkbike review could be incorporated into website: 2016 Turner RFX v4.0 Enduro - Review - Pinkbike
    Video Review of the new Turner RFX - Real World Test
    It's almost as if they blur out all the Turner logos for Krista Rust: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPPwlRKKBf8

    Czar. To your point, so brutally boring: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuJqanxlj6M

    Flux carbon. Nothing cool for online videos

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    Quote Originally Posted by xprmntl View Post
    I would conjecture that the rapid turn to carbon put Turner between a rock and a hard place--precipitating a need to liquidate aluminum frame stock which necessarily undercut and angered dealers--catalyzing the need move to direct sales. With a direct sales approach, often one needs to be a price leader, which is tough for a low volume producer.
    Not true. The economics for most brick-and-mortar dealers is that only the big four brands make sense for them and those are Specialized, Trek, Giant and Cannondale. None of the small brands can provide the level of inventory financing necessary to help brick-and-mortar bike shops survive with the tight margins most dealers now face. Very few brick-and-mortar stores can afford to keep boutique brand frames in stock given the range of sizing and colors. There are 4 P's of Marketing of which the sales channel (or place) is only one factor. The other levers are price, product and promotion. Turner overindexes on product esp. with their licensing of the dw-link, is on par or better on price (when build kit specs are compared), and underindexes on promotion. The net is a better product, with less promotion than some of their competitors, decent pricing, but less availability than the big players.
    Dirt Merchant Bikes
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmar123 View Post
    Funny thing is nobody gives a shit about any of that.

    So why should I buy a Turner bike? Sell me.
    How does a bike that climbs better than just about any other bike with a similar amount of travel, but with no compromise to its descending ability sound to you? I will concede though, that being able to demo a Turner is the definitive proof point for this and that is the key opportunity from my perspective to drive growth for Turner.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmar123 View Post
    But lets be honest, Turners marketing sucks hairy goat balls. Sorry but it does. The website and most of their ads are the most stale boring thing in the world.
    Advertising and promotion is only one part of marketing and contrary to popular belief, it's not free. (I used to work for Y&R on Madison Avenue). Creatives get paid as do production folks. Building a product that works better than its competitors for what customers want is also marketing. With unlimited resources you can optimize product, do unlimited promotion, and saturate all sales channels, but like many small businesses with limited resources, choices have to be made.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmar123 View Post
    ^Thats my story but...99% of the industry is more like below scenario.

    "But sir I demoed 5 bikes today and Im still undecided, I mean I really liked them all and the teal color of that other bike is really neat and they are a cool company, and some of my favorite riders ride for them, and all my friends have their bikes and say they are awesome, none of them heard of Turner before... so why should I buy the Turner?"
    Yup, getting people on bikes is a key opportunity for Turner Bikes and they are aware of this, but it doesn't happen for free. As I mentioned above, when you have a superior performing product, doing a demo ride is the definitive proof point of this.
    Dirt Merchant Bikes
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    Carbon flux build thread-flo2.jpg

    The wife's new Flux just arrived yesterday. It's GRRRREAT!
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    What size?

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    Quote Originally Posted by pdlhrd View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

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    The wife's new Flux just arrived yesterday. It's GRRRREAT!
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    Damn, a Tony the Tiger reference...you must be a fossil!!!!! Just kiddin!

    Nice looking rig!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1soulrider View Post
    What size?
    It's a medium. She's 5'5" so right at the bottom of the size... There's a chance we'll have to change to a 100mm dropper once we get it all set-up.

    @Rideon- I my case it's the mileage, not the age that's the concern...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spectre View Post
    Advertising and promotion is only one part of marketing and contrary to popular belief, it's not free.
    yep Im a creative and surrounded by marketing folks and I get that, but in this digital age you got to have a bangin website and an online presence. The costs of re working your website and taking out a few ads a month (which Turner has done) is a fraction of what it costs to produce a bike. Turners webpage and ads need help though. A few videos and photos on the homepage would be cool. Theres already a few shots once you click on the RFX that are good, something like that on the homepage instead of the fat bike and dog would be way better along w some shred videos. also any shots of the rfx w silver links should be taken off the page.

    this video was great!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-bdLmUy3pc
    Why isn't there more stuff like this plastered on the webpage for the RFX,czar, and flux? killin me.

    http://www.turnerbikes.com/turner-pd..._TurnerRFX.pdf
    this is pretty good^ and closer to what I'm talking about. Should have more of this stuff on the webpage...the shots of the bike for the article are size large and they/the builds look better then whats currently on Turners webpage.

    If you want people to try your bikes you got to get their attention first. People should be hyped before they even throw a leg over the saddle.I agree with y'all that making a great bike is the most important thing and how it rides, but if thats all you rely on to sell bikes your only shooting yourself in the foot. It just irks me that Turner makes such a rad bike but seems outta touch when it comes to selling them.

    Sulking, sob stories, excuses are not selling points. If there's a will there's a way

    sorry for thread derail... nice Flux, looking good.

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    "I will concede though, that being able to demo a Turner is the definitive proof point for this and that is the key opportunity from my perspective to drive growth for Turner."

    I second that. I had a few opportunity to throw a leg over a Sultan, a Burner and a Flux over the years via a Turner dealer bike shop where I used to live. Then I got to demo an RFX last summer side-by-side with a Yeti SB6. I went for the RFX without hesitation, while I should have gone for the Yeti, had I followed the internet hype and marketing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JC822 View Post
    "I will concede though, that being able to demo a Turner is the definitive proof point for this and that is the key opportunity from my perspective to drive growth for Turner."

    I second that. I had a few opportunity to throw a leg over a Sultan, a Burner and a Flux over the years via a Turner dealer bike shop where I used to live. Then I got to demo an RFX last summer side-by-side with a Yeti SB6. I went for the RFX without hesitation, while I should have gone for the Yeti, had I followed the internet hype and marketing.
    As a retailer, I get to ride a lot of bikes. There have been only a few top-notch bikes that I've ridden in the past several years that I've enjoyed riding as much as my Turner bikes for my typical trail riding mode (e.g., need to earn the descents). These are the Pivot Mach 429 Trail and the Alchemy Arktos. I agree that the Yeti SB6 (which I've also ridden) seems great based on the Internet chatter, but is in reality more focused on descending than being good all around. There is no substitute for riding a bike to see how it feels & some media reviewers seem to me to just flat out lie about some products. I just rode a high $ bike at Interbike that was so bad that I dropped it back off after only 10 minutes on the trail. I come back from Las Vegas to see pretty decent and some glowing reviews of this bike. Makes me wonder if the reviewers and I were riding the same bike.

    Based on prior demos of bikes from various brands, Turner was my first choice when I started my business. I can easily sell a good product. It takes a lot more marketing hype and smoke-and-mirrors to get someone to be interested in lower performing product (e.g., pro rider endorsements, videos, lifestyle imagery). Look at how much work Specialized puts into working around their 27 year old Horst Link suspension design to create an image of innovation for their mountain bikes.

    Sometimes I do think the product can speak for itself. Look at Richard Sachs and his custom road bike frames. Even with his steel handbuilt frames costing $5000 and a fairly generic Website (| RICHARD SACHS CYCLES), he's got a years-long waiting list. Some consumers want what they see in the media and what others have. Other consumers are more focused on what works for them regardless of whether that fits current fashion or trends.
    Dirt Merchant Bikes
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spectre View Post
    ...I can easily sell a good product. It takes a lot more marketing hype and smoke-and-mirrors to get someone to be interested in lower performing product (e.g., pro rider endorsements, videos, lifestyle imagery). Look at how much work Specialized puts into working around their 27 year old Horst Link suspension design to create an image of innovation for their mountain bikes.
    Thats what I'm saying though, Turner already makes a great product and if they only promoted/marketed half as good as some of these other companies they would be crushing it.

    When the homers or Turner says we aren't going to invest in any of that marketing/promotion fluff it doesn't surprise me when your scratching your heads claiming sales are down. Its like you pride yourselves in not taking part then at the same time wonder where everyone is.

    Interbike whats that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by dmar123 View Post
    Thats what I'm saying though, Turner already makes a great product and if they only promoted/marketed half as good as some of these other companies they would be crushing it.

    When the homers or Turner says we aren't going to invest in any of that marketing/promotion fluff it doesn't surprise me when your scratching your heads claiming sales are down. Its like you pride yourselves in not taking part then at the same time wonder where everyone is.
    My thoughts are around leveraging Turner's super-loyal customer base and getting people on Turner bikes. My understanding is that the videos that so many bike companies are turning out are still pretty expensive in terms of time and labor to produce especially if you want an end product with high production values. Also, how many me-too videos do you see on the Web and Facebook nowadays? Very little to me seems to cut through the noise.

    I agree though that there certainly are improvements to be had with Turner's site, but not sure if you noticed that they did actually put up a new site 1-2 months ago.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spectre View Post
    ...Sometimes I do think the product can speak for itself. Look at Richard Sachs and his custom road bike frames. Even with his steel handbuilt frames costing $5000 and a fairly generic Website (| RICHARD SACHS CYCLES), he's got a years-long waiting list. Some consumers want what they see in the media and what others have. Other consumers are more focused on what works for them regardless of whether that fits current fashion or trends.
    Beware of survivorship bias, Jeff. For every Sachs there are dozens or even hundreds of similar businesses that failed. Really, Turner does need to ramp up their marketing game. Even covering the basics like keeping the existing website updated would help. For example, it appears from this MTBR thread that the Flux 4 is being shipped in black, but the Turner website still offers it in white only. A slightly more advanced marketing path would be to leverage the enthusiasm of Dave's loyal customer base. It's incredible to me that the center of that customer base is here on MTBR, buried in this sub-forum, and not on the Turner website. It's 2016. Time to get modern (website and geometry alike).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wines of WA View Post
    Beware of survivorship bias, Jeff. For every Sachs there are dozens or even hundreds of similar businesses that failed. Really, Turner does need to ramp up their marketing game. Even covering the basics like keeping the existing website updated would help. For example, it appears from this MTBR thread that the Flux 4 is being shipped in black, but the Turner website still offers it in white only. A slightly more advanced marketing path would be to leverage the enthusiasm of Dave's loyal customer base. It's incredible to me that the center of that customer base is here on MTBR, buried in this sub-forum, and not on the Turner website. It's 2016. Time to get modern (website and geometry alike).
    For sure. There certainly are many opportunities for Turner Bikes to improve the marketing visuals of its business, but my key point is that nothing is free and that optimizing marketing ROI requires making some tough tradeoffs. Even at Fortune 50 companies, marketing spend is closely watched these days. I suspect that leveraging the loyal Turner customer base would have better ROI than making high quality videos for social media.

    In terms of social media, MTBR used to be the center, but Facebook and Instagram seem to capture more of the conversation nowadays in terms of reach.
    Dirt Merchant Bikes
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    Seattle area dealer for Turner Bikes & Cleary Bikes

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by pdlhrd View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

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    The wife's new Flux just arrived yesterday. It's GRRRREAT!
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    Very nice! It was painful for me to have to wait for a few last odds and ends to complete the build. I hope your build goes smoother.

  79. #79
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    Straight outta the box, large Flux w/ X01 Eagle kit and Knight carbon wheelset.

    Can't wait to get it dirty.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Carbon flux build thread-img_20170130_163222.jpg  


  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by wfl3 View Post
    Straight outta the box, large Flux w/ X01 Eagle kit and Knight carbon wheelset.
    Absolutely gorgeous I called Turner Friday to see what the status is on XLs......no specific time given. Looks like I will have to keep riding my outdated aluminum Flux

  81. #81
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    I have a raw v3 Flux as well and was torn on whether or not to keep it (gotta Czar too). It was my favorite rig to date, but I think this new one is gonna make it a distant memory so I'm letting a friend get a good deal on it so it won't just collect cobwebs. He's ready for an update from my old HL 5 Spot anyway. ;-)

  82. #82
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    Poor you!

  83. #83
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    I know, right.

  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by wfl3 View Post
    Straight outta the box, large Flux w/ X01 Eagle kit and Knight carbon wheelset.

    Can't wait to get it dirty.
    Just fell in love!!! Congrats dude, looks so awesome!!!

    Doest it come with the downtube protector? hard to see it.
    Looking forward to read your feeling on this rig

  85. #85
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    No downtube protector, so I'm looking for something to stick on there now.

    For those interested in weights, it was 25lbs 6ozs as pictured (NN 2.25 rear, NN 2.35 front).

  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by wfl3 View Post
    For those interested in weights, it was 25lbs 6ozs as pictured (NN 2.25 rear, NN 2.35 front).
    As a comparison, my wife's new Medium, same X01 build with Knight wheels, weighs in at 26lbs 4oz with XTR pedals installed.
    Last edited by pdlhrd; 02-01-2017 at 06:19 PM.

  87. #87
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    That's pretty light!!!

    Same tires and DT350 hubs as well?

  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by wfl3 View Post
    No downtube protector, so I'm looking for something to stick on there now.

    For those interested in weights, it was 25lbs 6ozs as pictured (NN 2.25 rear, NN 2.35 front).
    I got a downtube protector from a Czar. It has the holes for the water bottle screws that don't exist on the Flux, but it covers the same area pretty well. I bought the Lizard Skins Frame Protector Kit also, and cut it to cover the upper portion of the downtube. I also cut pieces to cover all of the inner parts of the rear triangle where you get the rear tire throwing rocks against it. The desert where I ride has a lot of rocks that will eat the inside of the rear triangle if you don't protect it. The paint is so nice that I don't want to put protection on the rest of the outside of the frame.

  89. #89
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    I have the Lizard Skins thick frame protector kit on the way, plan was to get the Czar protector if that didn't work.

  90. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by pdlhrd View Post
    As a comparison, my wife's new Medium, same X01 build with Knight wheels, weighs in at 25lbs 4oz with XTR pedals installed.
    Not to bash the new carbon Flux, but for comparison my wife's aluminum Flux V3.0 (small, powder coated) with full XTR 2X set-up, ENVE XC wheels (DT 240 hubs, XT cass) was 25 lbs 6 oz (with XT pedals and Terry Butterfly Ti saddle) before she went to a Reverb dropper which bumped it just over 26 lbs. Point being, carbon ain't all about weight.

  91. #91
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    My large v3 Flux is almost 27lbs ready to ride with XT 2x.

    And the old Flux has lighter wheels & tires, lighter fork and lighter post & saddle.

    Yes, not all about weight. It's the extra stiffness without the extra weight penalty I look for.

  92. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by wfl3 View Post
    That's pretty light!!!

    Same tires and DT350 hubs as well?
    Carbon flux build thread-fluxxyflo2_0.jpg

    Correction! As pictured, with X01 build, Knight/DT350, NN 2.25/2.35 & XTR pedals, this medium weights 26lbs 4oz. (The accuracy of my scale is suspect).

    This is replacing my wife's Flux 2.0 (DW, 26inch) size Small. It's XT1x11, XT brakes, Stans 355/Hope, Fox32/120mm, no dropper, chunky Time pedals. That bike weighs 25lbs 7oz on the same scale.

    As mentioned, the move to carbon isn't all about weight savings. This new Flux is much more capable and noticeably stiffer for a very negligible weight increase...

  93. #93
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    For those inclined to cut your own paint protection patterns 3M matte Ventureshield protection film matches the matte finish on the white Flux. I covered the entire down tube with it and applied as required elsewhere on the frame where needed to prevent cable rub etc. Note that is is not a replacement for the downtube protector as it does not offer as much protection but if you need "armor" for the downtube EVA foam works and can be bought in small sheets and cut as needed, get it with the adhesive on one side which is an option when ordering sheets.

    You can find small quantities on Ebay that will allow you to cover the whole bike for less than retail bike specific kits.

  94. #94
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    What length dropper seatposts are people putting on their v4 flux's? I'm on a large frame, about 6ft tall, and hoping I can use a 150mm dropper, but I'd rather know it was going to fit before I bought it. I guess I could try and measure the length I need using a spare post, but am curious anyway.

  95. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wellington View Post
    What length dropper seatposts are people putting on their v4 flux's? I'm on a large frame, about 6ft tall, and hoping I can use a 150mm dropper, but I'd rather know it was going to fit before I bought it. I guess I could try and measure the length I need using a spare post, but am curious anyway.
    Mine is a 125mm and I have maybe a half inch left to go lower, but I'm a bit under 5' 10" on a large so I'd think a 150mm should work for you. My saddle rail to center of BB is 25.5"

  96. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wellington View Post
    What length dropper seatposts are people putting on their v4 flux's? I'm on a large frame, about 6ft tall, and hoping I can use a 150mm dropper, but I'd rather know it was going to fit before I bought it. I guess I could try and measure the length I need using a spare post, but am curious anyway.
    A Reverb or KS will fit, but a Fox Transfer might not (in 150mm)

  97. #97
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    Try before you buy. It's probably not a problem on a large frame, but for an internal dropper on my wife's factory-drilled Flux V3, it didn't work, even with the shortest Reverb (125mm travel, 380mm), for her leg length--at the proper mounting height, the frame hole position kinked the hydraulic line. This was originally a demo and loaner bike, so I guess whomever rode it previously with a dropper had longer legs.

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    Thanks for the advice. It sounds like a 150mm dropper might be tight, so I'll try before buying.

    And people should note Cleaner's wise words above about paint protection. I bought some 3m scotchguard and spent ages installing it. I'll probably take it off though, as I bought 'high gloss" film, when the frame has a matte finish, so the film is pretty obvious.
    Last edited by Wellington; 02-13-2017 at 08:45 PM.

  99. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wines of WA View Post
    Even covering the basics like keeping the existing website updated would help. For example, it appears from this MTBR thread that the Flux 4 is being shipped in black, but the Turner website still offers it in white only.
    Here you go: Turner Flux now in black. Timing of this was discussed.

    The Flux is Back in Black
    Dirt Merchant Bikes
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    Seattle area dealer for Turner Bikes & Cleary Bikes

  100. #100
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    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by Spectre View Post
    Here you go: Turner Flux now in black. Timing of this was discussed.

    The Flux is Back in Black
    **** yeah! such a beauty in black!!!

    Now they just need to add the downtube rock pad described under features

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