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  1. #1
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    Brakes on your Spots??

    This has probably been beaten to death, but I can't find it. I'm thinking of upgrading from mechanicals on my 5 spot to Hydraulics. The mechanicals work pretty well, as far as I can tell. My question: Is it worth 300+ for the upgrade? If so, what's a good hydraulic brake these days? Avid Juicy 7, something else? Thanks.

    Also, would 5.5 rockers goof my bike up if I change nothing else? I'm running a 5 inch fork.

  2. #2
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    "a 5" fork" is really ambiguous. You might want to include all the info about the forks because they are not all the same length, even if the travelmight be the same. Also, rounding from millimeters to inches doesn't always produce the correct numbers. We need to get all the info to give you the info you want back in return.

    As far as brakes, I will chime in. First, I think you again omitted what brand of mechanicals you're using. I'll assume Avid? What model? In any event, you'll find Avid mechs on $500 bikes to $5000 bikes with hand selected parts. It's because they simply work. They are heavy and powerful. They are the option for those scared of hydraulic. What the disadvantage for some is the uneven pad wear because only one pad moves, then flexes the rotor over into the other. Some don't like the modulation, either. For some, the power advantages outweigh the disadvantages.

    The simple thing is you have to know what the shortcomings of your brakes are. Is it maintenance? Feel? Reliability, power, modulation? Weight? Then you go from there. You must also clearly state what type of riding you do HONESTLY, along with your weight and terrain because there are so many brakes now that most riders can have precisely what they want, while others cover a range at the expense of usually weight, while some extremely powerful stoppers don't work for lighter riders.

    Bring us back some stats and I'm sure you'll get what you're looking for and more.

  3. #3
    Surfin' da mountain
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    I've been riding Hope Mini's since '03. When I replaced the 130mm fork on my 5 SPOT with a Talas, I replaced the front caliper with a Mono Mini to fit the new post mounts.

    If I were looking at an entirely new set of brakes right now, the Hope V2 Moto would top the list.

    I've ridden with mechanicals, mechanical/hydraulics (remember the Rockshox Disc brakes first made by AMP Research?), early Hayes, and now Hopes. "Stricktly opinion" but feel Hopes modulate better that any other brakes. The Mini's are not the most powerful, but you don't need power if you're in control. The Hope Moto's are reported to moduate as well as the Mini's but be a step more powerful.
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  4. #4
    Big Test Icycles
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    I have Juicy 7 on my spot, they are great and can be found in the $130 range. My Brother has the Hope V2 on his DH bike and they too are excellent, but I think they only come in 203mm.

  5. #5
    Surfin' da mountain
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hangtime
    I have Juicy 7 on my spot, they are great and can be found in the $130 range. My Brother has the Hope V2 on his DH bike and they too are excellent, but I think they only come in 203mm.
    They make the backet to mount it to the rear tabs.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cucucachu
    I've been riding Hope Mini's since '03. When I replaced the 130mm fork on my 5 SPOT with a Talas, I replaced the front caliper with a Mono Mini to fit the new post mounts.

    If I were looking at an entirely new set of brakes right now, the Hope V2 Moto would top the list.

    I've ridden with mechanicals, mechanical/hydraulics (remember the Rockshox Disc brakes first made by AMP Research?), early Hayes, and now Hopes. "Stricktly opinion" but feel Hopes modulate better that any other brakes. The Mini's are not the most powerful, but you don't need power if you're in control. The Hope Moto's are reported to moduate as well as the Mini's but be a step more powerful.
    Several steps more powerful and modulation to match.

    I feel all you're saying about Hopes. Did a short 200 meter climb and descent yesterday and it was pretty sketchy in some tame, but unpredictable coal mine territory. Was quite satisfied and glad in a couple places to have the control and power. My V2/M4 setup is perfect.

  7. #7
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    the more i work with em, the more i like the formulas. just mounted a set of k-10's on a pals new rig and its not a bad budget brake. the k-24's are the direction im leanin come upgrade time but the ones are callin my name.

    itll all have to wait cuz i just got a ez up and 2 new king cobras.

    if ya have bb-7s, did ya see this?

    btw: big rockers/short fork is kinda silly but you knew that before askin... didnt ya?
    Last edited by cactuscorn; 06-20-2008 at 10:05 AM.
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  8. #8
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    Formulas are great and can be had for a reasonable budget - super modulation, lots of power and simple to set up and work on. I've had 2 sets of K18s and am on Biancos now - absolutely no problems (except a bad bleed that was my screw up).
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  9. #9
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    Stats

    I'm 6'2 215 lbs and an aggressive trail rider. I live in AK. I do hike a bikes to ride steep lines and often push my bike above tree line to get to the hard rock and steeper stuff up high. I also ride a lot of XC and ride a couple races a year. I'm riding the Alta Rezia Freeride trip on my Spot in August which is what prompted the shopping for Hydraulics and the Rockers. I'm entirely happy on my bike with what it has, but it's fun to upgrade especially for a big trip. I rode at Whistler last summer (rented their downhill bikes that ran Hayes 9) and was really impressed with the stopping power of those hydraulics on some crazy steep stuff. Very cool.


    I have Avid BB7 mechanical disc brakes. I've always been pretty happy with them, and don't mind adjusting when necessary.

    I have a Vanilla RL that I had Pushed to a Vanilla RLC.

    It's a chunk of change to spend on the upgrades, but I don't want to regret not having done it when I'm in the Alps.

    Thanks for your help.

  10. #10
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    I was a Juicy 7 guy with a 180/160 combo, but went to Formula K24's and haven't looked back. Love 'em. If you want some Juicy 7's in great shape, PM me. They're just sitting on a shelf.

  11. #11
    striker!
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    I'm running Magura Marta SL's with 180mm rotors front and rear. Great brakes for the 5 spot. They are light and with 180's plenty powerful for a spot running 2.35 tires. I've done lift access with this setup at the local mountains. I didn't get any brake fade. I'm a buck seventy so you may want to go with the Louise depending on how hard you ride.

    S

  12. #12
    TLL
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    Word on the Formulas. Of all the brakes I have owned (XTR, XT, Louises) Formulas by far have the best stopping power and modulation. K-18s can be had for a reasonable price. I run 203/180 at a BWT of 250 (running MEGAs) and have loads of stopping power.

  13. #13
    Daniel the Dog
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    I"m running good old 765 XT brakes

    They are without a doubt the lowest hassle and best modulating brake I have tried yet. I have run just about all them except Formula. No rubbing, lots of modulaton, and easy to work on.

    Jaybo

  14. #14
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    k18s on my spot 185 f&r - way better than my 07 juicy 7s on my 29er

  15. #15
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    sorry ss but with yer skills, you only represent like .05% of the population. its like askin tiger what caddy to use on my weekend off. not that i play golf mind ya.
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  16. #16
    trail fairy
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    I love these threads

    Everyones gonna say Forumla's

    Marta is a pretty sweet thing though shes quite slight I lie my girls a little more atheltic with some curves but would also be sweet on the Spot with the 180mm rotor up front! 2n what CC says SS has the skills his brakes are only for looks!

    So I'm going with LOUISE! Magura Louise, shes changed her dresses every year and keeps getting hotter than a hot thing and this year shes sporting a sexy little number!

    Even Sabby thinks theyre hot, optionally not in pink, but in black, silver or black n Silver! Stnadard rotors or Venti black or Red/Pink

    Signinficanty better than 06s and 07s were a step up again and in 08 well near perfect, and imo they make the best rotors period in standard or venti and they don't ping like Hopes, I see Formula are doing a floating rotor like Hopes wonder if that will be quite?

    With Louise ya could go 160/160 - 160/180 or 180/180, I'm no chicken wing and I run 160/180 and I can easily do nose wheelies, these brakes have ever let me down, they have a 5year leak proof warranty too!

    Sabby and Louise umm like to see them get dirty together
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    CC ya traitor, Louise to K24s thats like swapping Rose for K9 aka Doctor Who
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  17. #17
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    Brakes

    I started with a pair of juicys almost three years ago, after less than a year i dumped them for a pair of Magura Louise. The Louise are super brakes, lots of modulation and power.
    The juicys are binary, on or off, no modulation, get overheated in long runs and fade (at least that was with their 2005 and 2006 models, which i had).
    I'd like to meet the guy who invented beer and see what he's working on now.

  18. #18
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    not that i dont dig my maggies, i do. bleeding is a bit of a pain in the ass though.
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  19. #19
    what...?
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    I've been using Hayes HFX9's for a few years with no problems. I recently changed out the pads for Galfer Reds and got better performance.

    I have not used any other brands so I have nothing to compare them to, but for my riding style and weight (slow techy stuff and 230 lbs RTR) they ALWAYS stop me when I need them to.
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  20. #20
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    the thing about the 9's are they are cheap as all get out, bulletproof and simple to service but lack any noticeable modulation. they were the shyt back when the competition sucked balls but those days are long gone. if ya get a chance, try some of the newer stuff but make sure ya worked some ot that week to pay for the upgrade that will follow.
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  21. #21
    trail fairy
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    Quote Originally Posted by cactuscorn
    not that i dont dig my maggies, i do. bleeding is a bit of a pain in the ass though.
    sorted for 08 model easy peasy
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  22. #22
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    Yep, the H9's work, but they are at this point completely outclassed. There are many easier to work on, lighter, built better, and better modulating. They work, but manners aren't sometimes the best, either.

  23. #23
    PSI
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    juicys are yuck!

    Quote Originally Posted by Radius
    I started with a pair of juicys almost three years ago, after less than a year i dumped them for a pair of Magura Louise. The Louise are super brakes, lots of modulation and power.
    The juicys are binary, on or off, no modulation, get overheated in long runs and fade (at least that was with their 2005 and 2006 models, which i had).
    the dot bloated on all the juicys i had. the lever feel was forever mushy, the calipers too grabby and worse of all they suffer from terrible fade.

    after switching all my bikes to magura or shimano i am a mineral oil junky. either Louise or 08 xt (which can be had for $200+ on ebay). both are excellent, the levers click back at you and modulation is great and because of the mineral oil they are very consistent and low maintenance. bleeding is a breeze (and you dont need the crazy juicy bleeding kit)

  24. #24
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    h9's may be best described as a light switch for a 5000w spot light. theyre either on or off without much middle ground. they also weigh as much as some small cars but ill be damned if they dont work all the time and theres somethin to be said for that.
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  25. #25
    trail fairy
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    Just another note about maggis!

    Seems like eveyone is copying there style!

    Hayes followed up with the Stroker a dodgy name if ever there was one, can't give them away here!

    Shimano have followed suit with there 08 models and new Saints!

    Formula are going that route too with there new brake!

    Hope and Avid at the mo seem to be staying with there tried and true setups cool, Avids new elixir sounds promising too, but I'll stick with Maggs just cause I have all the kit!

    http://www.sicklines.com/2008/04/20/avid-elixir-2009/

    Still interesting the others have followed them with there own touch
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  26. #26
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    I have both Louises and fomula the one's

    The formulas are lighter and in my opinion more powerful with a 180/160 setup. Now I do still run the Maguras on my RFX with a 203 up front and they are great. But for lots a power and low weight like I would want on a spot then the ones hands down.

  27. #27
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    "h9's may be best described as a light switch for a 5000w spot light. theyre either on or off without much middle ground. they also weigh as much as some small cars but ill be damned if they dont work all the time and theres somethin to be said for that."

    Well, that's the thing....They are reliable as all heck and they always work - rain, mud, sand, dust heat, cold...you name it and with no problems ever.
    I read the brake forums all the time and am always seeing posts where someone is having another problem with another brand except Hayes....so there's something to be said for that.

    And I think my set - with Galfer red pads, has fantastic modulation and power. I get stopped real fast with no OTB adventures.
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  28. #28
    Elitest thrill junkie
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmtbkr
    Well, that's the thing....They are reliable as all heck and they always work - rain, mud, sand, dust heat, cold...you name it and with no problems ever.
    I read the brake forums all the time and am always seeing posts where someone is having another problem with another brand except Hayes....so there's something to be said for that..
    Not for me, the damn caliper started leaking because of the two-piece design and the seal that keeps it from leaking in the first place. It took me a while to find out what was wrong with the brakes, but under heavy braking fluid would push out of the caliper. The hayes are pretty cheaply made and the quality is fairly poor in my experience. There are plenty of hayes out there that "work", but I'd never spend my hard earned money on them, not to mention that pump-up has been a problem in the past, I wonder if they're really an open-system like others. I've also never been impressed with avid disc-brake quality (and there are always lots of posts about them in the brake forum), but I think that people have just moved on from hayes for the most part. Avid has also never had any trouble dialing modulation and power, although I'd say that quick-wearing pads are the tradeoff with some of their setups.
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  29. #29
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    Run a 203mm rotor

    Hayes will modulate really well if you run a big rotor up front. I have a set of mags as well but they are now waiting in the shop for another shot. They are 5 or 6 years old but they still are alive and kickin.

  30. #30
    trail fairy
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    Are you guys kidding, really, 203mm on a Spot


    Totally overkill if ya need that then!!!

    1: something is seriously wrong with your brakes!
    2: youre compensating!
    3: you need to go to a skills course on braking!

    FOnes etc nice brakes I know theyre light but comon really! K24s would be my choice in Forms they seem like a nice brakeset! and Ive ridden them so very similar in feel to my Maggis, I would gone for these but I helped out a friend and went for Maggis! We got 2 sets at the time..
    Hayes with 203mm up front, is this serious, or is it a slow weekend

    FOnes go for it but for no other reason other than bling, Ive never ridden them so Im no expert on them but from what Ive read here and DHers opinions I respect they seem great for Dh/FR maybe sweet on the RFX..

    Hayes well ya need some decent setup, bleeding and maybe some braided cables, Im no fan of Hayes, and Ive had people almost want to give away sets of strokers to me, Im not buying it though! To be fair I have a set of nines and they are pretty bullet proof good for thrashing on the DJ bike, but there's way better sets out there imo! The Stokers do nothing for me, maybe the 2 new sets they have coming will bring them back into the game!

    I'll pop the Magura mantra again, Im not sure what models you guys are talking about but Ive never felt without power on Louises, each year they have gotten better, 06 to 07 improved again and 08 near perfect, the ergos are bang on the split clamp is one of the best systems going, the bleeding is a non issue anymore and theyve gone back to the cotter pin on the calipers way better than tiny allens that get to tight, no need to drill them out anymore, standard or venti ,and these with venti are another if not too notches up on the power list, easily a 160/160 or 180 up front should be more than enough for anyone on a Spot, RFX 180/180 is perfect and even then 160.180 if ya a lightweight is heaps and Im not lightweight, and I can stand any on my bikes up on end with these brakes from great mod and power!

    If ya need more on a Spot ya either blinging it or need some help
    Either is fine but lets get real Homies, this aint the Ventana forum

    Ive run bigger rotors 203mm on the RFX cause of wheel swapping options saves swapping rotors as well but its overkill, and Ive ridden some steep downhills on these brakes, no fade, I don't even bother with braided hoses anymore as theyre that good from 07 onwards and the FRs were no slouch either
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  31. #31
    Xpy
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    Yup, Louises are sweet! I had 04's on for a couple of years and there were great - proper fit and forgets.

    I do like the new Hope M4s on my Spot, tho...

    Edit: I've sorted out the brake cables since, btw...
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  32. #32
    Baked Alaskan
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    Quote Originally Posted by trailadvent
    I love these threads

    Everyones gonna say Forumla's
    Don't you know Formula's are the Homer approved brake of the moment?

    I've run a lot of different disc brakes through the years, Coda, Hayes, XT 4-pot, B4 Gold, XTR, Louise FR, BB7, Juicy 7 and now K-24 and I'm really impressed with the K-24's. In terms of power/modulation/service-ability I would rank them as my favorite alongside the XTR's. I'm just over 200# without gear (lots of beer this winter ) and they've been awesome, totally quiet, great modulation and they stop on a dime. I run the Homer standard 180/160 rotor combo and they've been more than enough even when its wet and muddy out. I haven't had to bleed them yet - rode them last season too - but it looks pretty straight forward. I'm getting a set of Martas to try out and compare to the Formula's, plus I can get them in gold or red to match my frame. Just call me Fo...
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  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xpy
    Yup, Louises are sweet! I had 04's on for a couple of years and there were great - proper fit and forgets.

    I do like the new Hope M4s on my Spot, tho...

    Edit: I've sorted out the brake cables since, btw...
    My favorite brake. Using an M4 on the rear of my rig and one on the front of the gf's rig. Both running 183 floaters and not a single complaint. Great fade resistance, serviceability, and modulation. Not to mention power as well.

  34. #34
    trail fairy
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    Quote Originally Posted by AK Chris
    Don't you know Formula's are the Homer approved brake of the moment?

    I've run a lot of different disc brakes through the years, Coda, Hayes, XT 4-pot, B4 Gold, XTR, Louise FR, BB7, Juicy 7 and now K-24 and I'm really impressed with the K-24's. In terms of power/modulation/service-ability I would rank them as my favorite alongside the XTR's. I'm just over 200# without gear (lots of beer this winter ) and they've been awesome, totally quiet, great modulation and they stop on a dime. I run the Homer standard 180/160 rotor combo and they've been more than enough even when its wet and muddy out. I haven't had to bleed them yet - rode them last season too - but it looks pretty straight forward. I'm getting a set of Martas to try out and compare to the Formula's, plus I can get them in gold or red to match my frame. Just call me Fo...

    Ahh yep I'm a fan of the K24s I would had a set but for staying the course for a freind, he really wanted some Louise carbons and I have a good hook up so we went that way, no regrets theyve not let either of us down, and we seemed to rub off on others as they now run Louises 2! Plus I like to be a little different Homer

    But the K24s I really dig, def Formula is the Homer approved brake for sure

    The Magura Mata's are an awesome brake, but don't compare them with the K24s for power or mod they won't compare, its a lightweight XC brake, nice but the Louise is the direct comp with the K24! Even with the 180mm rotor it just dosen't have the calpier and master cylinder size to compete! its an XC brake, I could make it fade quite easily on normal rides and I would lock up going fast in corners where on the lousie I would control the speed with no lock up without thinking, Im a similar weight in ride trim

    Watch going for color over performance Fo! ah no worries FO is a Hope fan, ya all good..
    Be interesting to se ya thoughts the Marta's will certainley save yer some wieght, ya weanie..

    JC/XP I agree with ya both the M4 is a nice brake too for the Spot, its nice bling but also a nice complement for the Spot if youre a Hope fan
    They do sexy work for sure

    XP I hope ya got yer cranks on too
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  35. #35
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    I have Formula ONE brakes with 180mm rotors on my XL 5.Spot and I love them. I have Formula Oro Biancos on my Flux. Switched from Avid Juicy 7s after trying a friend's Formula K24 brakes.

    The ONEs are fantastic, don't fade, have great modulation, and are very quiet. I am a big guy, 204lbs, and they do the job well.

    Morgan

  36. #36
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    Avid Juicy 7's and Rockers??

    I found a smokin' deal on Avid Juicy 7's, but none of you guys are saying anything about them. Are they crrrrrrapp?? I haven't heard of Formula 1's, Louises, or several of these other brakes. Hmm.

    Rockers then? I have a Vanilla RLC, Are the 5.5 rockers going to work and be a nice upgrade, or should I leave it? Thanks.

  37. #37
    trail fairy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfbkr50
    I found a smokin' deal on Avid Juicy 7's, but none of you guys are saying anything about them. Are they crrrrrrapp?? I haven't heard of Formula 1's, Louises, or several of these other brakes. Hmm.

    Rockers then? I have a Vanilla RLC, Are the 5.5 rockers going to work and be a nice upgrade, or should I leave it? Thanks.
    J7s are fine, did I just say that, nah seriously they are sweet, just enjoy em and don't worry about it, really most of these brakes ar more than enough, we are esspecially picky plus have to much time on our hands

    There's not too many bad brakes out there now, just some are better than others depending on what you look for in a brake, so keep that in mind when reading these posts on anything, we all ride differently and look or need different things!

    What year is your Vanillla, if a 140mm model then you'll be sweet, it will balance out nicely [Spot?]

    chur.......
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  38. #38
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    I'm 6'2'' 220

    Probably 225-230 with gear on longer rides. I have an old vanilla I just had pushed. They upgraded it to a vanilla RLC. What do I measure to check if it's 140 mm? Stanchions?

    I ride a 5 spot, yeah. I have avid bb7 now, and they've been fine. It's cool to buy new stuff for the bike though. Especially performance enhancing things. I ride very aggressively, and break a lot of things. Frames included. The bb7 brakes haven't broken, so why I'm looking to change them I don't know. Wait, yeah, better braking. And a Europe trip through the Alps which I'll need solid no fuss brakes for.

  39. #39
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    Are you guys kidding, really, 203mm on a Spot


    Totally overkill if ya need that then!!!

    1: something is seriously wrong with your brakes!
    2: youre compensating!
    3: you need to go to a skills course on braking!
    200mm rotor on the front of my 5spot with a 160mm on the back and Shimano XT 's, put the big rotor on a couple of years ago for a trip to the alps and haven't taken it off, mainly because i can't be arsed. Do i need a lesson in braking? don't think so , just like having lots of power on the front brake as its the one that does all the work. However i didn't feel under braked with a 160 upfront with the Xt's so they get my vote, especially as they have been so reliable.

  40. #40
    Surfin' da mountain
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    Quote Originally Posted by trailadvent
    I love these threads

    Everyones gonna say Forumla's

    Signinficanty better than 06s and 07s were a step up again and in 08 well near perfect, and imo they make the best rotors period in standard or venti and they don't ping like Hopes, I see Formula are doing a floating rotor like Hopes wonder if that will be quite?
    Formula, Hope you can't go wrong with either. In the Hot Deals section, someone is selling Hope Mini's for $160 a wheel

  41. #41
    TLL
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    Quote Originally Posted by trailadvent

    So I'm going with LOUISE! Magura Louise, shes changed her dresses every year and keeps getting hotter than a hot thing and this year shes sporting a sexy little number!
    Loved my 07 Louise when I had em on the Sultan. Ran 180/180, for a big guy they were almost perfect. I say almost, because there was the occasional occasion where they just did not have enough stopping power, say on a really steep downhill. But overall, they were fine.

    Switched to the new XT on the Ventana: Ugh. That's all I will say.

    I am really liking the MEGAs on the RFX. Gobs of modulation and stopping power. 200/180 setup. I actually find myself using the brakes less, because I know I can wait till the last possible moment before pulling the lever. Some of it is the bike, of course the proof for me is that I never think about braking or slowing down anymore.

    I'd think the MEGA would be overkill for the Spot tho, unless you are a big guy like me, or unless you run a smaller rotor setup, like 180/180. K18s, K24s or Oros would do the job in a pinch.

    <a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/bigiron58/RFX/photo#5212212255049624130"><img src="http://lh3.ggpht.com/bigiron58/SFV_bjQrqkI/AAAAAAAAAG4/kz65Cx1soNI/s800/P1010008.JPG" /></a>

  42. #42
    bicycle rider
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfbkr50
    I found a smokin' deal on Avid Juicy 7's, but none of you guys are saying anything about them. Are they crrrrrrapp?? I haven't heard of Formula 1's, Louises, or several of these other brakes. Hmm.
    I had Avid Juicy 7s. They worked fine, were just a little noisy and the rotors seemed to go out of true easily. I had brake fade on really steep stuff.

    I don't know jack about rockers, except that Sammy Hagar sucked as the front man for Van Halen.

    Morgan

  43. #43
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    Whats wrong with the ventana forum?

    Trailadvent you are are classic. The only reason to run a a big rotor on Hayes is to get better modulation. Thats all I was saying. The mags do have a very on/off feel with smaller rotors and the 203 up front gives them a smoother feel for sure. Not sure why you would want K24's over ones either. They really arent much cheaper and the one piece caliper and sheer power of the ones without the weight penalty makes it a no brainer for 50 bucks a brake. But I do agree about the Louises they are just plain great brakes. The one nice thing I can say about Hayes is you can get parts pretty much anywhere. I destroyed a lever in Golden BC and low and behold I was able to be up and running the next day. Just my 2 cents and I think I'm gonna go back to the ventana forum for a bit before I go to my braking workshop

  44. #44
    trail fairy
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    Quote Originally Posted by artsn
    Whats wrong with the ventana forum? Trailadvent you are are classic. The only reason to run a a big rotor on Hayes is to get better modulation. Thats all I was saying. The mags do have a very on/off feel with smaller rotors and the 203 up front gives them a smoother feel for sure. Not sure why you would want K24's over ones either. They really arent much cheaper and the one piece caliper and sheer power of the ones without the weight penalty makes it a no brainer for 50 bucks a brake. But I do agree about the Louises they are just plain great brakes. The one nice thing I can say about Hayes is you can get parts pretty much anywhere. I destroyed a lever in Golden BC and low and behold I was able to be up and running the next day. Just my 2 cents and I think I'm gonna go back to the ventana forum for a bit before I go to my braking workshop
    Ahh I was taking the piss dude,all good the Venty forum is cool
    Just riding a muddy trail. . ..

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