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  1. #1
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    Brakes for 5-spot. Formula, Hope, Avid, other?

    So there was about two parts that came off my old bike when I built up my 5-Spot, one of which were the Hayes Comp (read: plastic) disc brakes. I'm considering mounting these up on my townie hardtail and getting something more befitting the level of the rest of the bike. I'm not really sure where to start. I have done some research and from what I can see is that most people are running Hope's but I've read a lot of setup and squealing issues.

    I've not had any problems with my Hayes over the years, but they seem to have fallen down the ladder with competition of the likes of Avid, Magura, Formula, and others.
    I guess I need some help getting in the right ballpark. My brake wish list would look something like this:

    Easy set up. Not sure what shims are involved when using hopes, but I'm pretty sure I don't want that.

    Easy to find pads. I'd like to be able to walk into most shops and buy pads. Hayes are pretty easy to come by.

    Good branking for a 210# on a 5-spot. Aggressive XC to light FR.

    The Formula K24s and Avid Juicy's might fit the bill, but I'm not sure what the deal is with Avid's one piston setup. Anyone have specific comments for either of these systems?

    Should I just stick with Hayes and move up their line?

    Help!

  2. #2
    fried stuff with cheese
    Reputation: Locotiki's Avatar
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    I was running some older Hope Mini's and loved them for the first two seasons with them. Eventually they started going really soft and I would have to bleed them once a month.
    After asking here, I picked up a set of Magura Louise FR and I've only been out twice on them but I must say it's a night and day difference. They are so much stronger and they modulate a little better than the Hopes. Some folks dislike the setup on them but I was use to setting up the Hope so the shims didn't scare me. I have a set of Dangerboy levers coming for them now.
    Egg

  3. #3
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    Hope M4 with IS mounts?

  4. #4
    Lay off the Levers
    Reputation: Bikezilla's Avatar
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    Shimano XTRs
    Light, strong, easy to setup, easy to bleed, easy to find parts.Superb modulation.
    I'm 230+gear and ride aggro trail. I Use 8" a front rotor.
    Me likey.
    Faster is better, even when it's not.

  5. #5
    Bite Me.
    Reputation: cutthroat's Avatar
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    Avid mechs - 203mm up front 160mm in back with SD7 levers and XTR cable. OK let the beatings begin.
    When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. ~H.G. Wells

  6. #6
    not so super...
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    Since nobody has said it yet: [SIZE=1](what a can of worms we have here)[/SIZE]

    Avid Juicy - you pick the flavor. Carbon, 7 or 5.

    Pads are easy to find -shares pads with the mechanical/cable versions

    Easiest bleed system ever - buy the Avid kit

    Easy set-up - the CPS works great

    I would use a 185mm rotor front and rear on a spot.
    Nothing to see here.

  7. #7
    Dad
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    I've had good luck with Hayes too, but the Juicy 7s for all of SSINGA's reasons are a great choice (although I've been fine with the 160 rotors, but I'm a mortal.)

    The two problems I had were:
    1. They have suffered from a stuttering/warbling noise problem that has supposedly been corrected by redesigning the rotors. Just do a search in the forums and you'll find plenty of info regarding system setup. Easy to follow stuff.
    2. The rear (before I shortened the line) started locking up on a hot, sunny day. This forced me to shorten the line to the proper length and bleed it. Nothing difficult, but you need their $30 bleed kit.

    I'd buy them again, but I'd suggest getting the version where the clamp is two bolts. I got the split clamp and need to remove my grips to get the lever off the bar.

  8. #8
    TC3
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    I used to run Mono Mini, Louise FR, Marta SL and currently running Oro Puro.
    and I would suggest Louise FR or Oro K24 for your Spot,
    or go for a Juicy if finding parts in LBS is important to you.

    Louise FR- dead silent, good modulation and lever feel
    Oro- almost as silent as Louise, light, easy to set up, lever feel & modulation is as good as Louise FR
    Mono mini- avoid this brake!
    No long term experience on Juicy, but my friend loves it, seems trouble free.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikezilla
    Shimano XTRs
    Light, strong, easy to setup, easy to bleed, easy to find parts.Superb modulation.
    I'm 230+gear and ride aggro trail. I Use 8" a front rotor.
    Me likey.
    Any quirks to this setup? I'm thinking I'd like a bit more power out of XTRs (6 inch rotor). What would I need to do to upgrade to a larger rotor (are there 7" rotors?).

    Fork is a 2004 Marathon S (105 mm) on a L Burner if that matters.

    -Derek

  10. #10
    \|/Home of the Braves\|/
    Reputation: RedRocker's Avatar
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    On Juicy 7's myself. I like the ease of setup and they have been trouble-free. Strong braking force and I am about 190 with gear. I had Avid mechanicals and the hydraulics have a much better feel to them, they're easier to modulate. The mechs do have good power though and they cost less if that's a big factor for you.
    Big hoopy.
    Turner Sultan / On One Inbred

  11. #11
    No, that's not phonetic
    Reputation: tscheezy's Avatar
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    If you live in a dry area, Juicys. If you live in a wet area, Magura Louise FR.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  12. #12
    Elitest thrill junkie
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    Quote Originally Posted by k1creeker
    Easy set up. Not sure what shims are involved when using hopes, but I'm pretty sure I don't want that.
    Unfortunatly, there are no shims involved with setting up hopes now.

    They changed to post-mount for 06.

    I preferred the shim system as it was more definite and when setting up post mounts, you'll notice the entire caliper twists when you tighten the bolts, no matter how hard you squeeze the lever of the brake.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  13. #13
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    I thought Hope is running IS and post mount models side by side?

    Regardless, post mount does suck for the above reason. When talking in fractions of a mm, post mount will never be aligned exactly. Now don't forget that with the shim system, you can dial it in exactly and sometimes the fraction of a mm is the difference between poor noisy braking and zen.

  14. #14
    Lay off the Levers
    Reputation: Bikezilla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by derek
    Any quirks to this setup? I'm thinking I'd like a bit more power out of XTRs (6 inch rotor). What would I need to do to upgrade to a larger rotor (are there 7" rotors?).

    Fork is a 2004 Marathon S (105 mm) on a L Burner if that matters.

    -Derek
    I've had them for 3 years. Pretty quirkless as far as I can recall. They're quitet most of the time, squeak a bit when wet but two hard brakes and they're almost silent again. They squeak less than any other brand my friends ride with. The metal pads sqeak louder and longer when wet than the organic pads do but even then, they still sqeak less than most of what I've seen(heard) on my partners bikes.


    Bleeding is dirt simple and only requires a little tube and a plastic bag to catch the bled fluid, a wrench for the bleed valve and a phillips screwdriver to open the resivorir.


    I.S. Alignment is simple: Bolt it on eyeball the rotor in the entry and exit slot in the caliper. slip the little shims in as needed. Takes 5 min per caliper. Post mount is supposed to be even easier to align, but I haven't tried that yet. Jayem mentions some twisting can be an issue. Cactus Corn says it's a non-issue. I have no Idea.

    I don't know if there are 7" rotors...someone else here might know. You'll need an adaptor for any larger rotors.
    Faster is better, even when it's not.

  15. #15
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    I still use the Magura Marta's on my 5 Spot.
    I got them for about 4 years now (maybe a bit less), have moved them over several frames, and now they are on my Spot.
    They are very light (I think the lightest disc brakes around), have awsome stopping power, and basically that is all I need from brakes.

  16. #16
    PSI
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    After running Juicys for a few months I switched to Louise FR. I love them! Just as strong as the Juicys after a slightly longer breakin period and best of all, no noise, no rub, no constant adjustments. The initial setup is just a tad "less easy" than the juicys but after that is set-and-foget.

  17. #17
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    Thanks for all the replies guys.

    Based on your input and some more research, I'm leaning towards the Louise FR, Juicy 7, and Formula K24 (that narrows it down huh?). I forgot to mention I was going to avoid Shimano anything until they decide to play along nice with the rest of the world. No offense intended. I haven't figured out if the Magura's are a split clamp design or not. The pictures I've seen don't help. Do you have to remove grips to mount them?

    The K24s look to be a really good deal if they are in fact built like the Oro Pro. There only seems to be a handful of users though.

    What's the deal with Hope? They about the most expensive line on the market, everyone uses them, yet they draw the most hate in the reviews and posts I've read. Is it the bling factor?

  18. #18
    fried stuff with cheese
    Reputation: Locotiki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PSI
    After running Juicys for a few months I switched to Louise FR. I love them! Just as strong as the Juicys after a slightly longer breakin period and best of all, no noise, no rub, no constant adjustments. The initial setup is just a tad "less easy" than the juicys but after that is set-and-foget.

    One thing I couldn't believe was how fast my FR's broke in. I did a couple of laps around my block with some hard braking to bed them in and I rode them on the trail the next day. So much more power over my old Mini's. I'm sure some of that is just going from a 160mm rotor to a 180mm.
    Egg

  19. #19
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    I am running Hope mono mini's on my Spot with 6" rotors. 220lbs and I love these brakes!


    They do take a little time to break in though....I chose them for bling factor and price ($135 each with internet coupon)


    I

  20. #20
    Daniel the Dog
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    I'm running the Magura Louise FR now

    After some trouble setting them up, I'm very happy. I had the front one overfilled, well my LBS did, and they rubbed a lot. Now, they don't rub at all after I bled them. I have the 7" rotors front and rear and love it. The pads wear out quicker than some but not too bad. The lever is very comfortable in my hands. Good brake! Very quiet, even in the wet. They are very simple once you get used to them and they are set up right.

    I would avoid the Magura Martas unless you either ride on flat ground, are light, or don't push your bike too much. I either go up or down and find 6" rotors too small. The Marta can have a 7" rotor on them.

    I rode Hayes Mags for a long time. They are VERY good brakes. Simple to set up, pads last forever, and easy to bleed. The only downfall is I had 6" rotors and they are slightly grabby at low speeds. Rock solid, though. Every bike shop knows how to work on them if you are not mechanical.

    I dumped the Juicy's quickly due to noise; however, in retrospect, I wish I would have played with them longer because people like 'em. Would have bee fun to mess with but noise bothers me.

    The XTR/XT are hard to beat. Very nice modulation and good durability. A bit expensive because you have to buy the levers, hoses, and brakes. Universal quoted me $340 for the XT for it all...good price.

    Never tried Hopes or Formula's. No comment. Look nice.

    Avid Mechanical are great. I like hydraulic better though.

    In essence, you can't lose with most brakes. They are very good.
    No one brake is perfect for a Spot...

    Jaybo
    Last edited by Jaybo; 03-18-2006 at 06:22 PM.

  21. #21
    trail fairy
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    I'm with jaybo, Ive run the Mag FRs for 2yrs plus and love em nothing Ive tried comes close omo though!

    But I like the sound of the new Formula Puro's and would try em on the next mount, my FRs are too good to change performance wise, I don't care what they look like when I'm riding

    my 2c most brakes are pretty good these days though!
    Just riding a muddy trail. . ..

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  22. #22
    No, that's not phonetic
    Reputation: tscheezy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by k1creeker
    I haven't figured out if the Magura's are a split clamp design or not. The pictures I've seen don't help. Do you have to remove grips to mount them?
    The Maggies (Louise, Louise FR, and Martas) are not split clamps. You have to pull the grips to remove the levers. This is very lame imo. About the only thing I don't like about them, actually. I swap crap around endlessly and if it weren't for lock-on grips, I'd go nuts.

    Get the Louise FRs.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  23. #23
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    Hi,

    I'm looking at Magura at the moment and am I right in saying that the only difference performance wise between the Louise's and the Marta's are the rotor sizes?

    The Marta's are obviously lighter and therefore cost more.

    I'm going to the Alps in the summer and I'm just a bit concerned the Marta's won't cope even with a 180 up front. I'm 185 in my kit.

    Mate's got Hope M4's which are ok but don't seem that much better than my Deore's. Perhaps they're set up badly. Apart from the bling factor I'm even wondering whether I'm just falling victim to a bout of UGI, wanting those carbon levers!

    Thanks for any comments.

  24. #24
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    Fornumla K-24's

    If you have any decent luck and a good mechanic, I believe that most of the brakes mentioned are very good brakes. Having said that, I chose K24's for my most recent upgrade from the original Hayes that I had for six years.

    The Hayes still work and I gave them to my friend who bought the SC Superlight that the Hayes brakes came on. He rides V-brakes and he has crushed me everytime that we ride. It's not the brakes, it's the rider.

    But, great brakes do make the riding safer and that works for me. The K-24's for chosen for their design excellence and their economy (vs. oro puro's). The puro's are lighter but my sources indicate that their are no performance differences vs. K24's.

    The modulation switch has a much more elegant design than the Juicy and it is much less vulnerable to damage. You can quickly flick it 180 degrees (or less) while riding and instantly change the power/modulation ratio feel of your brakes. I'm riding a 180 mm (7 inch) rotor which weighs about 20 grams more than the 160 mm rotor. They have one finger stopping, which really helps minimize my tendonitis issues.

    The carbon levers would be nice for cold weather, but just the other day I broke my Campy Record carbon lever on the left brifter (brake/shifter) of my road bike.

    Formula made a lot of good choices in the design without packing the brakes with bogus add-ons. I recommend that you buy and extra set of pads and order some extra bolts. Those were the parts that I went through frequently with the Hayes brakes. The K-24 bolts are likely stainless steel, because they are more durable than the Al (?) Hayes bolts.

    Cheers,

    Kane

  25. #25
    Bon Vie
    Reputation: PoKev's Avatar
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    Juicy 7s, although I've heard alot of nice things about Louise FR. How's that for ridin' the fence .

    peace.............
    [size=4]Let go, and let it flow!!!![/size]

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